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Weekly Discussion: 1/18 - 1/22
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Topic Started: Jan 16 2010, 08:29 PM (7,263 Views)
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karmakatch63
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Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
Post #81
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
- Sindacco
- Jan 18 2010, 12:38 PM
I do think the writers have a little double standard right now. I mean it's good that they are explaining how Lawrence treated Carly but in the same episode we can get scenes of Victor telling someone that Nicole tried to kill him. But the writers seem to have forgotten why Nicole tried to kill him. And that reason is that Victor treated Nicole the same way Lawrence treated Carly.
I think they are telling it from Victors perspective. He's not going to care if Nicole had good reason or not. But I do get your point, maybe Brady could chime in (does he know this info) and counter Vic when he goes on a Nicole rant.
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain. The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL
How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?"
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mer4santo
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Jan 18 2010, 03:59 PM
Post #82
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- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?" Maybe Hope could just YT Carly's story! ;)
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peaches179
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Jan 18 2010, 04:06 PM
Post #83
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- Kenny
- Jan 18 2010, 01:31 PM
This Sydnapping saga is SO. FUCKING. BORING.
ICAM.
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six
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Jan 18 2010, 04:10 PM
Post #84
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- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
- Sindacco
- Jan 18 2010, 12:38 PM
I do think the writers have a little double standard right now. I mean it's good that they are explaining how Lawrence treated Carly but in the same episode we can get scenes of Victor telling someone that Nicole tried to kill him. But the writers seem to have forgotten why Nicole tried to kill him. And that reason is that Victor treated Nicole the same way Lawrence treated Carly.
I think they are telling it from Victors perspective. He's not going to care if Nicole had good reason or not. But I do get your point, maybe Brady could chime in (does he know this info) and counter Vic when he goes on a Nicole rant.
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?" It's probably best that she doesn't because who knows what they'd tell her at this point. Maggie, the person who loves gossip, and Caroline, who was so quick to be on Hope's side that she wouldn't even listen to Bo's story before she started lecturing him. It would be interesting to see how they'd spin Carly's story of helping out the Salemites against her, though...
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karmakatch63
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Jan 18 2010, 04:13 PM
Post #85
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- Brothers and Sisters
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- six
- Jan 18 2010, 04:10 PM
- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?"
It's probably best that she doesn't because who knows what they'd tell her at this point. Maggie, the person who loves gossip, and Caroline, who was so quick to be on Hope's side that she wouldn't even listen to Bo's story before she started lecturing him. It would be interesting to see how they'd spin Carly's story of helping out the Salemites against her, though... True but if the writers wanted to, they could actually have the Salemites admit they overreacted and were unfair. NOW THAT would be something to see.
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jane1978
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Jan 18 2010, 04:14 PM
Post #86
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- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
- Sindacco
- Jan 18 2010, 12:38 PM
I do think the writers have a little double standard right now. I mean it's good that they are explaining how Lawrence treated Carly but in the same episode we can get scenes of Victor telling someone that Nicole tried to kill him. But the writers seem to have forgotten why Nicole tried to kill him. And that reason is that Victor treated Nicole the same way Lawrence treated Carly.
I think they are telling it from Victors perspective. He's not going to care if Nicole had good reason or not. But I do get your point, maybe Brady could chime in (does he know this info) and counter Vic when he goes on a Nicole rant.
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?" Of course they could do that. But why? It would just complicate thing and forced the show explain things which are not important. They give us the basics needed for the current story to tell. Sure, the show is a continuity drama but too much backstory can be problem as well. People donīt want to hear what the character used to be 20 years ago. They want to see what he/she is now.
Honestly, I think this is true for RL as well. Letīs say some woman gets divorced and itīs complicated and both sides are wrong and everyone wants to know every detail. As times goes the reasons why are less and less important. And eventually all the woman says about her ex is it didnīt work or she ignores that part of life completely. Iīm not sure why soaps should be different just because every detail is still traceable in recaps and/or YT.
Edited by jane1978, Jan 18 2010, 04:16 PM.
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six
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Jan 18 2010, 04:22 PM
Post #87
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:14 PM
- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?"
Of course they could do that. But why? It would just complicate thing and forced the show explain things which are not important. They give us the basics needed for the current story to tell. Sure, the show is a continuity drama but too much backstory can be problem as well. People donīt want to hear what the character used to be 20 years ago. They want to see what he/she is now. Honestly, I think this is true for RL as well. Letīs say some woman gets divorced and itīs complicated and both sides are wrong and everyone wants to know every detail. As times goes the reasons why are less and less important. And eventually all the woman says about her ex is it didnīt work or she ignores that part of life completely. Iīm not sure why soaps should be different just because every detail is still traceable in recaps and/or YT. The kind of person Carly is has everything to do with this story, though. She's a good person at heart, and that's the reason Bo started helping her in the first place. If you're going to take it upon yourself to make judgments about someone, you need the big facts of the story.
- Quote:
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True but if the writers wanted to, they could actually have the Salemites admit they overreacted and were unfair. NOW THAT would be something to see. LOL, that'll never happen, or if it does, it'll be after Carly or Melanie are almost killed.
Edited by six, Jan 18 2010, 04:25 PM.
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Halloween Family
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Jan 18 2010, 04:23 PM
Post #88
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- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
- Sindacco
- Jan 18 2010, 12:38 PM
I do think the writers have a little double standard right now. I mean it's good that they are explaining how Lawrence treated Carly but in the same episode we can get scenes of Victor telling someone that Nicole tried to kill him. But the writers seem to have forgotten why Nicole tried to kill him. And that reason is that Victor treated Nicole the same way Lawrence treated Carly.
I think they are telling it from Victors perspective. He's not going to care if Nicole had good reason or not. But I do get your point, maybe Brady could chime in (does he know this info) and counter Vic when he goes on a Nicole rant.
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?" Good post.
I would be intersted in little nuggets of history either threw dialoge or flashback. To me it's what sets american soaps apart from other scritped drama, the way it spans over generations. I loved seeing the flashback of a very young Maggie on the farm meeting Mickey (and wow talk about an age difference!) Incorporating history would keep the story and dialogue fresh, they don't have to get bogged down by it. It's a much better alternative to all the repetetive dialogue and multiple flashbacks of what happened yesterday.
I was watching off/on during the Carly Viv years but I don't remember shit about their story. That's why I am having a hard time with Vivian and her hatred for Carly, yes she killed Lawrence but something is missing in the telling of their relationship. I have no interest in youtubing their story, the show should fill in some gaps. Also, Lawrence and Carly's abusive relationship would hold better together if that was fleshed out just a tiny bit too. A poster summarized their story from years ago and from what I read it seems that there may have been some brainwashing when Carly lost her memory for her to abruptly leave the Love of Her Life, Bo.
All in all, I'm fine with the characters to be hypocritical because it's realistic, but every now and again it would be good for some of the characters to have a self reflective moment just to change things up a bit and incorporate history.
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sandyeggo1
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Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
Post #89
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:14 PM
- Sam09
- Jan 18 2010, 03:56 PM
- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 03:33 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 01:51 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
But the show cannot explain every existing plot from past related to character just to explain the reasons why he/she did something bad in the past. Most of plots is eventually completely erased and even the most important are drastically symplified so they can be summed in a line or two. Who wants to hear Victor and Brady arguing about Nicol and what she did and why she did it and what Victor did and what Nicol did to him before etc., practically just recapping plot from 2002. And thatīs the better case. The original Bo/Hope/Carly/Lawrence/Vivian is almost 20 years old and the motivations are even more complicated. The hardcore viewers like on this board are a miniscule minority. The show would have to explain to general audience who is Nicky, how Vivian had stolen him, how Lawrence and Carly discovered Nicky is their child, how and why they threatened Vivian and she attempted to kill Carly till she discovered Dr. Wu and his magic herbals. They would have to explain how Carly and Lawrence fell in love years before she met Bo and arrived to Salem because otherwise her leaving with him doesnīt make even slightest sense. Thatīs why they keep all past mentions so vague. We know Carly and Bo somewhat fell in love when he thought Hope is gone and she eventually choose Lawrence with whom she has a grownup child. And she had and still has huge dispute with Vivian who even went so far to bury her alive. Try to go deeper and you have to start explain and explain and explain.
The genre is called "continuing drama" and most people now can play catch up better than ever with YT available. In the old days, a lot of us could only watch in the summers, yet the shows used the past to write stories. People just asked friends/relatives...."Who's that? I thought they were married to so and so???" And then someone tells you, "Yea they were going to get married but they found out they were brother and sister???" LOL How hard is it to have someone like Hope ask say Maggie, or Caroline. "What was Carly like? Did you like her? Did she sleep around? NO? She was with Bo only? What made her leave Bo for Lawrence?"
Of course they could do that. But why? It would just complicate thing and forced the show explain things which are not important. They give us the basics needed for the current story to tell. Sure, the show is a continuity drama but too much backstory can be problem as well. People donīt want to hear what the character used to be 20 years ago. They want to see what he/she is now. Honestly, I think this is true for RL as well. Letīs say some woman gets divorced and itīs complicated and both sides are wrong and everyone wants to know every detail. As times goes the reasons why are less and less important. And eventually all the woman says about her ex is it didnīt work or she ignores that part of life completely. Iīm not sure why soaps should be different just because every detail is still traceable in recaps and/or YT. No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
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esp13
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Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
Post #90
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- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing.
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sandyeggo1
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Jan 18 2010, 04:42 PM
Post #91
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- esp13
- Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing. I really doubt there would be any conflict (as I'm sure you are about to see in an upcoming scene). Even if Caroline was close with Carly for the whole 2-3 years she was in Salem last time, her bond is stronger with Hope. What Carly did to Hope in the present day would tarnish any relationship she had with Carly a long time ago.
But I'm sure it's ok because the more everyone picks on Carly, the more she can whine and cry to Bo and he can keep following her around telling her was a great person she is. That's what you want right? Bo and Carly together? Here you go. Enjoy.
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Paxton
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Jan 18 2010, 04:50 PM
Post #92
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- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 04:23 PM
I was watching off/on during the Carly Viv years but I don't remember shit about their story. That's why I am having a hard time with Vivian and her hatred for Carly, yes she killed Lawrence but something is missing in the telling of their relationship. I have no interest in youtubing their story, the show should fill in some gaps. Also, Lawrence and Carly's abusive relationship would hold better together if that was fleshed out just a tiny bit too. A poster summarized their story from years ago and from what I read it seems that there may have been some brainwashing when Carly lost her memory for her to abruptly leave the Love of Her Life, Bo. I agree with all of this and especially agree with your point that I don't think the burden should be on us to go youtubing to fill in the blanks. I am not a new viewer but I don't think it's unreasonable of me to expect the show, when bringing back a character from 16 years ago, to fill in some blanks. How do they expect new viewers to understand or care how Carly fits onto the canvas if they don't do that? It doesn't have to be a big thing, but various conversations between people who knew her then, including flashbacks, can go a long way. They've done some of that, but they could do a better job of it.
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jane1978
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Jan 18 2010, 04:53 PM
Post #93
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- esp13
- Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing. But everybody isnīt mean. Some characters are neutral. And Maggie even let Carly live with her and she considered her her friend when they last met. Now no matter how wonderfull and sweet Carly was as young Dr. Manning nobody can expect some Horton or Brady will support her against Hope. Certainly not now.
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esp13
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Jan 18 2010, 04:54 PM
Post #94
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- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:42 PM
- esp13
- Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing.
I really doubt there would be any conflict (as I'm sure you are about to see in an upcoming scene). Even if Caroline was close with Carly for the whole 2-3 years she was in Salem last time, her bond is stronger with Hope. What Carly did to Hope in the present day would tarnish any relationship she had with Carly a long time ago. But I'm sure it's ok because the more everyone picks on Carly, the more she can whine and cry to Bo and he can keep following her around telling her was a great person she is. That's what you want right? Bo and Carly together? Here you go. Enjoy. Why do you think I want Bo and Carly together? As I've said before, I don't have a dog in that fight. Don't care about Bo and Hope, don't care about Bo and Carly. To the extent I care about anything on this show, it's related to the desire to see a good story, plain and simple. And one of the things that makes a good story is the use of character history and hitting emotional beats. Caroline is certainly closer to Hope, but Caroline was close to Carly once and Caroline was also unfaithful to her husband during her marriage. She knows (or if written believably and with any sense of history, should know) that things like that are rarely black and white. Caroline could certainly be upset with Carly, but it would be better if that came from their own history, not acting like Carly is a complete stranger. And it would also make sense if she had some understanding for Carly and Bo even if she disagreed with their actions. It would be, IMO, a great way to add some additional emotion layers to all of this.
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esp13
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Jan 18 2010, 04:58 PM
Post #95
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:53 PM
- esp13
- Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing.
But everybody isnīt mean. Some characters are neutral. And Maggie even let Carly live with her and she considered her her friend when they last met. Now no matter how wonderfull and sweet Carly was as young Dr. Manning nobody can expect some Horton or Brady will support her against Hope. Certainly not now. I'm not asking for them to support Carly over Hope. I'm asking for a little emotional layer to all of this where people recognize that everything is not black and white. That people recall their friendships with Carly and be at least a little reluctant to paint her as evil. That people like Caroline or Maggie remember their own infidelities and at least have a touch of self-reflection on how harshly they judge Bo and Carly. It's not about choosing sides, it's not about agreeing with Carly. It's about letting their anger or disappointment have some added layers to it. It's an easy way to add to the overall richness of a story.
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jane1978
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Jan 18 2010, 04:58 PM
Post #96
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- Paxton
- Jan 18 2010, 04:50 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 04:23 PM
I was watching off/on during the Carly Viv years but I don't remember shit about their story. That's why I am having a hard time with Vivian and her hatred for Carly, yes she killed Lawrence but something is missing in the telling of their relationship. I have no interest in youtubing their story, the show should fill in some gaps. Also, Lawrence and Carly's abusive relationship would hold better together if that was fleshed out just a tiny bit too. A poster summarized their story from years ago and from what I read it seems that there may have been some brainwashing when Carly lost her memory for her to abruptly leave the Love of Her Life, Bo.
I agree with all of this and especially agree with your point that I don't think the burden should be on us to go youtubing to fill in the blanks. I am not a new viewer but I don't think it's unreasonable of me to expect the show, when bringing back a character from 16 years ago, to fill in some blanks. How do they expect new viewers to understand or care how Carly fits onto the canvas if they don't do that? It doesn't have to be a big thing, but various conversations between people who knew her then, including flashbacks, can go a long way. They've done some of that, but they could do a better job of it. Carly brutally murdered her niece, had an affair and a bastard child while he lived, and after he died she immediatelly went to rekindle her affair with Bo. I donīt know what more motivation you need.
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Paxton
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Jan 18 2010, 05:03 PM
Post #97
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:58 PM
- Paxton
- Jan 18 2010, 04:50 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 04:23 PM
I was watching off/on during the Carly Viv years but I don't remember shit about their story. That's why I am having a hard time with Vivian and her hatred for Carly, yes she killed Lawrence but something is missing in the telling of their relationship. I have no interest in youtubing their story, the show should fill in some gaps. Also, Lawrence and Carly's abusive relationship would hold better together if that was fleshed out just a tiny bit too. A poster summarized their story from years ago and from what I read it seems that there may have been some brainwashing when Carly lost her memory for her to abruptly leave the Love of Her Life, Bo.
I agree with all of this and especially agree with your point that I don't think the burden should be on us to go youtubing to fill in the blanks. I am not a new viewer but I don't think it's unreasonable of me to expect the show, when bringing back a character from 16 years ago, to fill in some blanks. How do they expect new viewers to understand or care how Carly fits onto the canvas if they don't do that? It doesn't have to be a big thing, but various conversations between people who knew her then, including flashbacks, can go a long way. They've done some of that, but they could do a better job of it.
Carly brutally murdered her niece, had an affair and a bastard child while he lived, and after he died she immediatelly went to rekindle her affair with Bo. I donīt know what more motivation you need. What? You seem to be answering a different question than I raised. My point was that newer viewers who weren't around for Carly's run and those of us like me who were watching but not necessarily every day and who don't have perfect recall of every detail that happened in 1992 could use a little history lesson about Carly and who liked her, who didn't and why. You seem to be talking strictly about Vivian's motivation to get revenge on Carly, which I agree is reasonably well sketched out. However, the fact that more people seem to be either against Carly or neutral than are in her corner would be more interesting if the audience knew that at one time Carly was a respected and liked character in town. As it is, new and old-but-forgetful viewers see a woman who shanked her husband to death, came to town and picked up where she left off with her old lover, never mind that he still has a wife. Salemites are acting like new viewers--judging on what happened in the last three months, not the entire history.
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Halloween Family
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Jan 18 2010, 05:11 PM
Post #98
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:58 PM
- Paxton
- Jan 18 2010, 04:50 PM
- Halloween Family
- Jan 18 2010, 04:23 PM
I was watching off/on during the Carly Viv years but I don't remember shit about their story. That's why I am having a hard time with Vivian and her hatred for Carly, yes she killed Lawrence but something is missing in the telling of their relationship. I have no interest in youtubing their story, the show should fill in some gaps. Also, Lawrence and Carly's abusive relationship would hold better together if that was fleshed out just a tiny bit too. A poster summarized their story from years ago and from what I read it seems that there may have been some brainwashing when Carly lost her memory for her to abruptly leave the Love of Her Life, Bo.
I agree with all of this and especially agree with your point that I don't think the burden should be on us to go youtubing to fill in the blanks. I am not a new viewer but I don't think it's unreasonable of me to expect the show, when bringing back a character from 16 years ago, to fill in some blanks. How do they expect new viewers to understand or care how Carly fits onto the canvas if they don't do that? It doesn't have to be a big thing, but various conversations between people who knew her then, including flashbacks, can go a long way. They've done some of that, but they could do a better job of it.
Carly brutally murdered her niece, had an affair and a bastard child while he lived, and after he died she immediatelly went to rekindle her affair with Bo. I donīt know what more motivation you need. Yes, I do acknowledge she has motive but why not just let her be extradited and most likely executed. Like I said there is something missing from their relationship that hinges on their past together.
Victor is acting strangely psychotic, maybe Viv has been dosing him up with the same weird herbal teas for his stomachache she was taking when she went nuts.
Esp and Paxton have raised some valid points and props to Paxton for incorporating "shank" into your post.
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karmakatch63
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Jan 18 2010, 05:15 PM
Post #99
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- Brothers and Sisters
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- jane1978
- Jan 18 2010, 04:53 PM
- esp13
- Jan 18 2010, 04:35 PM
- sandyeggo1
- Jan 18 2010, 04:26 PM
No Kidding? Who the hell would care to see that drivel? "Oh, what was sweet old Carly like 20 years ago.. Forget that she's a whinny, helpless slut now, did she save anyone's life two decades ago?"
SPARE ME! How lame is that?
I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Caroline a little conflicted and remembering how close she was to Carly at one time. It's called layers and emotional beats and they are what make a story mean something as opposed to just being about driving the plot from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, most of the people who Carly was close to back then are no longer in Salem. But, there is no reason that somebody who knew her back then couldn't at least show a little conflict about the whole thing.
But everybody isnīt mean. Some characters are neutral. And Maggie even let Carly live with her and she considered her her friend when they last met. Now no matter how wonderfull and sweet Carly was as young Dr. Manning nobody can expect some Horton or Brady will support her against Hope. Certainly not now. Neither should I expect any Brady, Roman or Caroline, to take Hope's side against Bo when she left him. And yet Caroline did, yelling at Bo as if it was his fault his wife chose to leave him. At least they gave Bo the backbone to stand up to her for a second.
But regardless, when Carly first arrived, long before Bo and Carly even kissed, the Hortons and Bradys were acting like she was a pariah without any knowledge of anything. All they knew was her past there with them. How does it make sense for people to assume the worst of someone who they knew had saved the lives of their loved ones????
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Kevc1980
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Jan 18 2010, 05:18 PM
Post #100
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Are any of these 7 pages about the episodes airing this week? I'm too lazy to look through them all.
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