Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]



Hello, soap fans -- and welcome to Daytime Royalty!

For those unfamiliar, we are an uncensored community for fans and lovers of the daytime genre. We have a no-holds-barred atmosphere in regards to the shows, writers, actors etc. but we do not allow member bashing in any form.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member, please log in to your account to access all of our features.

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Weekly Discussion: 3/15 - 3/19
Topic Started: Mar 12 2010, 06:57 PM (11,636 Views)
peaches179


Sindacco
Mar 13 2010, 07:11 PM
Time to bring out the old photo I posted two years ago :P

Posted Image

LOL!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lysie
Member Avatar


Kenny
Mar 13 2010, 09:02 PM
Laura was Laura Horton, mother of Jennifer and Mike. She was one of Marlena's closest friends and one of Kate's biggest enemies. When Kristen was presumed dead in 1998, everyone believed Laura was the one who drowned her. Here's a clip of her in action with Eileen Davidson/Kristen. (By the way, the reason she's acting so loopy is because Kristen drugged her drink, LoL.)
Oh, that's 90s Laura. Laura was much more. Where's Matt?


Keith, I actually have a LOT of trouble with the Sami/Eric SORASing. As in, which part of their childhood are we supposed to think each of their parents missed?
Edited by lysie, Mar 13 2010, 10:07 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
darraholic
Member Avatar


It's a shame Eileen is wasting herself on such a boring character like Ashley.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kenny
Member Avatar


darraholic
Mar 13 2010, 10:17 PM
It's a shame Eileen is wasting herself on such a boring character like Ashley.
I agree. I love Eileen to death but Ashley is a such a snooze.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
IMissAremid
Member Avatar
After all... tomorrow is another day!

Kenny
Mar 13 2010, 09:02 PM
Kristen was sort of a Nicole-esque character. She fell in love with John Black, got pregnant with his baby, then suffered a miscarriage after an explosion in Paris and that's when her world fell apart. She faked a pregnancy, stole a baby, locked Marlena in a secret room when she learned the truth, tried to have Laura committed, helped Stefano try to kidnap Marlena and take her to his island, blackmailed Vivian and Nurse Lynn, faked her brother Peter's death and helped frame Jack for his murder, faked her own death, tried to kill Marlena on multiple occasions, attempted suicide at John and Marlena's engagement party. She even brought a presumed dead Roman Brady back on John and Marlena's wedding day to keep the ceremony from happening. She was a crazy bitch and I loved her.
The thing is Kristen wasn't a Nicole-esque character in the beginning and nor was her relationship with John Black like that in the beginning with her so damn desperate. John really did love her and, maybe even love her more than Marlena in the beginning, at least I thought, even though I rooted for Marlena and John because I wanted Tony and Kristen to actually work out. (Even when JER had them stupidly breaking up over her birth control pills or whatever it was. Grrr!)

But anyway, when she first came on the scene she was just the sweet as pie nurse Kristen wasn't she? Like a total saint who had no idea how awful Stefano was and Stefano had never done anything bad to her? And the whole main conflict was just John trying to understand how he could be in love with someone who also loved Stefano very much as her father?

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I actually liked the character she was the first couple years she was on the show more than when she became the crazy bitch.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Halloween Family
Member Avatar


kristen was similar to Nicole in that the whole babyswitch s/l of present day is patterned after it. Other than that, in my memory Kristen wasn't at all like Nicole. She was nice and John did really love her. I didn't care for all the crazy Kristen stuff and having her play multiple characters either. IMO, they ruined a decent character.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kenny
Member Avatar


IMissAremid
Mar 14 2010, 12:34 AM
The thing is Kristen wasn't a Nicole-esque character in the beginning and nor was her relationship with John Black like that in the beginning with her so damn desperate. John really did love her and, maybe even love her more than Marlena in the beginning, at least I thought.

But anyway, when she first came on the scene she was just the sweet as pie nurse Kristen wasn't she? Like a total saint who had no idea how awful Stefano was and Stefano had never done anything bad to her? And the whole main conflict was just John trying to understand how he could be in love with someone who also loved Stefano very much as her father?

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I actually liked the character she was the first couple years she was on the show more than when she became the crazy bitch.
I don't think Kristen is like Nicole either -- at least not in terms of their (full) histories and personalities. What I meant is that their post-miscarriage deceptions had kind of a similar feel. Their desperation was driven and triggered by the same things.

Anyway, I thought Kristen was dull as dishwater when Eileen first joined the show. She came to Salem as this saintly social worker and she was just sort of... there. It wasn't until the Possession story when Satan (LoL) morphed into Kristen and we got to see Eileen play the evil seductress that I realized, "Wow... she would make an awesome bad girl."

I think James Reilly played Kristen's descent into madness very well. It was a process. It wasn't something that just happened over the course of one or two episodes. Yes, the story was campy and crazy, but it was damn entertaining, IMO. Eileen really sold it. What could've been a hot ass mess was actually very delicious to watch.

I really liked how it all started with Kristen's simple insecurities, knowing John would never love her the way he loved Marlena (a la Phyllis/Nick/Sharon) and in my opinion, he never did. Then she found the infamous letter (a la Stephanie/Nathan/Melanie) and her insecurities exploded. She had one glimmer of hope in the fact that she was pregnant with John's child, and when she had a miscarriage it devastated her in a very Nicole-esque way and she just snapped. The threat of losing something/someone you love + intense resentment + a fragile state of mind = extreme desperation. She wasn't in her right mind. What started as a crazy but understandable plan (passing off another woman's child as her own) began to snowball as other people got involved and began to figure it out and it just became this colossal web of lies. By the time the story reached its climax, she not only had John to lose, but also the child she had bonded with as her own. She had to lie to cover up the original lie... and then lie to cover up those lies as well... and when people began to discover the truth, she had to find some way to get them out of the picture. Enter the "secret room."

It was such an entertaining, wonderfully crafted story, IMO. There were so many layers to it -- like an onion. One lie overlapped with another, and then that lie overlapped with another, so to watch it be crafted so perfectly and then unravel in such a grand way was very entertaining. It was a delicious story. And very hilarious at times. I realize that it wasn't Shakespeare by any means, but in terms of an entertaining soap story, it had all the right elements, IMO. Eileen sold the hell out of it. And the payoff? Fantastic. Nothing I've seen before or since even comes close. Not only did Kristen's world implode in spectacular fashion, but J&M fans finally got to see their favorite couple reunite after years of being kept apart.

The Killing Pool, on the other hand, was frustrating for me as a viewer. I enjoyed it for what it was, but I felt like the writers were really pushing Kristen to the extreme. Also, having fifteen lookalikes at that point was just silly. Unlike the Secret Room, the Killing Pool was just too much -- of everything. Too much camp, too much evil, too many lookalikes, too much crazy for the sake of crazy. That's when I started to become very frustrated with the writing and it's only gotten worse since then, LoL.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cassie1013


Sindacco
Mar 13 2010, 07:11 PM
Time to bring out the old photo I posted two years ago :P

Posted Image
Best picture ever, and truly representative of DAYS ridiculous timelines.

I, too, don't know WTF Eileen is doing on Y&R. Horrible character, horrible story. They clearly had no idea what to do with Ashley when they brought her back, hence round #02423234 of Ashley/Nikki/Victor. Also, Ashley is a major snooze.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lazydazes
Member Avatar


Wow! Could John had been even hotter? Only Drake Hogestyn could make that strange suit appealing. John was smoking hot. It's funny how when he was on the show I liked the John/Izzy B. and the John/Kristen pairing, but I could never really get into John/Marlena. I loved the clips and they actually remind of how good the show truly was back then.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sindacco
Member Avatar


Halloween Family
Mar 14 2010, 12:50 AM
kristen was similar to Nicole in that the whole babyswitch s/l of present day is patterned after it. Other than that, in my memory Kristen wasn't at all like Nicole. She was nice and John did really love her. I didn't care for all the crazy Kristen stuff and having her play multiple characters either. IMO, they ruined a decent character.
Nicole was also nice when she first came on but other than the baby stuff Nicole and Kristen weren't really much alike.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Paxton
Member Avatar
Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

Funny that I'm seeing people say John really loved Kristen unlike EJ with Nicole when from my perspective it was the other way around. I never bought John and Kristen as a couple. To me on the surface the stories don't really seem all that similar at all in other respects either. I can think of three major dissimilarities right off the bat: Marlena didn't have her own baby with John; Marlena had no new love interest that I can recall and certainly no golden couple writing like Sami does with Rafe; and the reveal of the secret didn't bring EJ and Sami together. Whereas I think of that story as a J & M story, this one never has seemed like an EJami story to me, certainly not since Rafe entered the picture.

This quote Kenny posted between Marlena and Kristen illlustrates my point:

Quote:
 
Marlena: "You lied and schemed and took what didn't belong to you! John and I belong together."

Kristen: "No you don't."

Marlena: "We love each other. We always have and we always will."

Kristen: "I don't THINK so, Marlena!"


When the reveal came out Sami didn't say one word that I can recall about how Nicole took EJ from her, nor that they love each other. She wants her family to be with Rafe.
Edited by Paxton, Mar 14 2010, 09:40 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ladyofthelake
Member Avatar
Professor-in-training

Paxton
Mar 14 2010, 09:35 AM
Funny that I'm seeing people say John really loved Kristen unlike EJ with Nicole when from my perspective it was the other way around. I never bought John and Kristen as a couple. To me on the surface the stories don't really seem all that similar at all in other respects either. I can think of three major dissimilarities right off the bat: Marlena didn't have her own baby with John; Marlena had no new love interest that I can recall and certainly no golden couple writing like Sami does with Rafe; and the reveal of the secret didn't bring EJ and Sami together. Whereas I think of that story as a J & M story, this one never has seemed like an EJami story to me, certainly not since Rafe entered the picture.

This quote Kenny posted between Marlena and Kristen illlustrates my point:

Quote:
 
Marlena: "You lied and schemed and took what didn't belong to you! John and I belong together."

Kristen: "No you don't."

Marlena: "We love each other. We always have and we always will."

Kristen: "I don't THINK so, Marlena!"


When the reveal came out Sami didn't say one word that I can recall about how Nicole took EJ from her, nor that they love each other. She wants her family to be with Rafe.
:rockon:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Liz<3Days
Member Avatar


I have never analyzed soaps as I do here at DR, LOL!

When I was watching John/Marlena/Kristen, I felt like I already knew that John and Marlena would get together. Being a JOhn/Kristen fan, I did see John love her, but when Marlena walked in the room, you know Kristen was a goner. John would have this look and steal away glances at her. But back then, you knew that JOhn and Marlena were a supercouple and they would eventually get together.

I dont see this at all with DAYS now. The only comparison would probably be the miscarriage, but I think I liked this SL better then the other one because it was too "out there," when so many people got involved in knowing the secret and they made Kristen too wacko.

I so wished they stopped making her into a cartoon villain. I also didnt like the stupid Elvis angle to the story and Susan/Edmond were just stupid. I never rooted for them and every time I saw Susan with her teeth, made me think of going to the dentist!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
six
Member Avatar


I think John and EJ were pretty similar. IMO, John did love Kristen, and EJ did love Nicole - it's just that they were settling because they didn't think they had a chance with the other woman. Say what you will about Sami's love for EJ, but even if you never bought it, to me it was pretty clear that we were supposed to believe that it hurt Sami to push him toward Nicole for the good of the baby. That's why she broke down in the cabin after telling him Nicole's pregnancy wasn't a disaster, but his future, that's why she asked Marlena if it was okay to hurt someone she loved to protect an innocent, why she came on to him in the stairwell, etc. The story changed when Rafe showed up, but Sami started out very similar to Marlena. She was fighting Nicole for EJ until she felt a child's life was at stake. Just as Marlena kept quiet for a child (except in her case, it was Kristen's unborn child). John and EJ both would've tried to stay with Kristen and Nicole if they'd been honest, but in both cases, the baby was the biggest thing holding the relationship together, and it would've failed without it. I don't think anyone is saying these stories are carbon copies, but the basic story, especially on the Kristen/Nicole side are very close.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Halloween Family
Member Avatar


Sindacco
Mar 14 2010, 08:41 AM
Halloween Family
Mar 14 2010, 12:50 AM
kristen was similar to Nicole in that the whole babyswitch s/l of present day is patterned after it. Other than that, in my memory Kristen wasn't at all like Nicole. She was nice and John did really love her. I didn't care for all the crazy Kristen stuff and having her play multiple characters either. IMO, they ruined a decent character.
Nicole was also nice when she first came on but other than the baby stuff Nicole and Kristen weren't really much alike.
Your right Nicole was nice during the first round, during the Eric Brady period. It's funny because that was when I liked Nicole. Ari Z and Jensen A had GREAT chemistry together and there is a scene of them looking into one another's eyes...I think they are naked and are about to make love. When I think of great Days moments, that is def one of them.

Kenny is right, "The threat of losing something/someone you love + intense resentment + a fragile state of mind = extreme desperation", that's the formula they used for Nicole. When they did it with Kristen, I didn't care for it but this equation worked great for Nicole and they did a great job.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Paxton
Member Avatar
Dreaming of a Melanie-free Days

six
Mar 14 2010, 11:09 AM
I don't think anyone is saying these stories are carbon copies, but the basic story, especially on the Kristen/Nicole side are very close.
As I already said, I disagree., and I can guarantee you that you won't change my mind about this. Whereas John was the clear prize in the Kristen story, it was clear pretty much from the first moments that Nicole spent with Sydney that Sydney was the real prize here. Sydney was what Nicole didn't want to lose and Sydney was what Sami would be crushed to learn she had lost (temporarily). Nicole's one last chance at keeping EJ would have been to tell EJ the full truth when he was kicking her and "that" out of DiMansion; it might not have worked but trying to run with Sydney defnitely had the effect of proving to EJ and everyone else that she could stand to lose EJ but she couldn't stand to lose Sydney. The emotional motivations of Kristen and Nicole being iniitally similar doesn't make the overall stories similar. They do indeed share some elements but the emotional weight and purpose of the stories are as far as I'm concerned markedly different.
Edited by Paxton, Mar 14 2010, 11:30 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
six
Member Avatar


I definitely preferred Kristen's switch. Maybe it was partially because I was relatively new to soaps, and wasn't jaded about recycled storylines or things that didn't make any sense, but I think it was better written, and we got the payoff at the end that made it all worth it, in addition to rolling into another umbrella story that actually had a point. With Nicole, it just kept going, and going, only to fizzle, and start a new story that seems to be a waste of time or a stalling tactic. They also spent way to much time trying to make Nicole sympathetic - on and on, day after day, crying about her bayyyyby, and her childhood. It would've been so much better if Nicole had switched the kids and gone on with her life, with a few close calls. Not doing a deer in the headlights stare as the truth almost comes out five times a week. It really made me glad to see Nicole go for awhile, which wasn't the case with Kristen, who was more interesting during the story.

The only good thing about Nicole's story, is unlike Kristen, they're letting Nicole return for good.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
six
Member Avatar


Paxton
Mar 14 2010, 11:30 AM
six
Mar 14 2010, 11:09 AM
I don't think anyone is saying these stories are carbon copies, but the basic story, especially on the Kristen/Nicole side are very close.
As I already said, I disagree., and I can guarantee you that you won't change my mind about this. Whereas John was the clear prize in the Kristen story, it was clear pretty much from the first moments that Nicole spent with Sydney that Sydney was the real prize here. Sydney was what Nicole didn't want to lose and Sydney was what Sami would be crushed to learn she had lost (temporarily). Nicole's one last chance at keeping EJ would have been to tell EJ the full truth when he was kicking her and "that" out of DiMansion; it might not have worked but trying to run with Sydney defnitely had the effect of proving to EJ and everyone else that she could stand to lose EJ but she couldn't stand to lose Sydney. The emotional motivations of Kristen and Nicole being iniitally similar doesn't make the overall stories similar. They do indeed share some elements but the emotional weight and purpose of the stories are as far as I'm concerned markedly different.
I'm not trying to change your opinion, as I assume your post up thread about how things were different wasn't meant to change the opinions of those who agree with me about this thirteen year old story. :shrug: John, EJ and the babies were the prize in the stories to me. Kristen didn't cut her losses and flee. She came back and risked it all for "her baby." Nicole did everything she could to keep EJ, and could've just left well enough alone when he kicked her and Sydney out, but she didn't - she kept coming back because she wanted him. Both women stole a baby and lied to keep a man, then when they were found out, couldn't give up the child they started out planning to use, but fell in love with.
Edited by six, Mar 14 2010, 11:50 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sindacco
Member Avatar


six
Mar 14 2010, 11:32 AM
They also spent way to much time trying to make Nicole sympathetic - on and on, day after day, crying about her bayyyyby, and her childhood. It would've been so much better if Nicole had switched the kids and gone on with her life, with a few close calls. Not doing a deer in the headlights stare as the truth almost comes out five times a week. It really made me glad to see Nicole go for awhile, which wasn't the case with Kristen, who was more interesting during the story.

The only good thing about Nicole's story, is unlike Kristen, they're letting Nicole return for good.
That's because Nicole is such a complex character. She was fun, sexy, bad and at the same time vulnerable and traumatized because of her childhood. Kristen was more of a soccer mom (minus the mom part) gone crazy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Liz<3Days
Member Avatar


I just dont see that much similarity between these two stories. Just because Kristen and Nicole both faked pregnancies doesnt automatically make them the same. Both had very different motivations and even the characters' role in this are different.

Sami is not the "Marlena" in this. If she was, most would be rooting for her. She was clearly the one to root for in the John/Kristen SL. EJ and JOhn are completely different. John was a loving man despite his ordeal with being the pawn. He also found love with Isabella. EJ didnt know the meaning until he met someone that he didnt need to hide in shame for being a Dimera...this was Nicole. He found love with their family and in true DiMera style is trying to somehow recreate this by being the hero to Sami. Problem is that Sami will always want another and he will never be good enough. Rafe is being more like the "Marlena" if we are to try and fit this "square peg" SL into the other round hole.

And if people are complaining that this SL keeps going and going, think of how long the other SL lasted...I believe 3 years before everything was exposed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · DAYS: News, Spoilers & Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply