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Days recasts Bill Horton for Frances Reid tribute
Topic Started: Apr 23 2010, 09:26 AM (4,468 Views)
Kevc1980
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Amello
Apr 23 2010, 11:33 AM
Kevc1980
Apr 23 2010, 11:32 AM
Great news. It will be nice to see a Bill Horton again. Wow Lucas will get to meet his father.
Lucas HAS met his father. Albeit not for very long, but ...
Has he met him onscreen? I don't remember that.
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lysie
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Kevc1980
Apr 23 2010, 12:11 PM
Amello
Apr 23 2010, 11:33 AM
Kevc1980
Apr 23 2010, 11:32 AM
Great news. It will be nice to see a Bill Horton again. Wow Lucas will get to meet his father.
Lucas HAS met his father. Albeit not for very long, but ...
Has he met him onscreen? I don't remember that.
Wasn't he there for the Bill is the father reveal?
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lysie
Apr 23 2010, 12:30 PM
Kevc1980
Apr 23 2010, 12:11 PM
Amello
Apr 23 2010, 11:33 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Has he met him onscreen? I don't remember that.
Wasn't he there for the Bill is the father reveal?
Yes. It said so in the synopses Matt posted.
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DrewHamilton
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Great news! I liked Martin as Frederick on Y&R. I sort of remember him from SUN, but his part as Meg's father was never anything bit to write home about. I'm just glad the show is taking the time to address Bill Horton. That's awesome and they get major props from me. Tommy hasn't been mentioned in years. Bill has. Bill was most certainly a must.
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Aliaron
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Didn't Lucas and Will go off to visit Bill in 2002?
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lysie
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Ellie
Apr 23 2010, 12:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM
it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind. They want Bill Horton present, as it should be. Just because they've made excuses in the past doesn't man you do it now and you definitely don't do it in this instance when it's a tribute for Frances Reid. Days needs to as much as possible. If not, then it would be a travesty.
Viewers won't identify with the character as Bill, it's poor casting in the first place, and my point in bringing up the past was to show that it doesn't even need to be done. Days has had emotional weddings/funerals/whatever without recasting. I don't see how a token recast like this will help at all. It's a tribute to Frances to do a one-time recast? I'll be honest: they must have known Frances was quite ill when they made the decision to kill off John Clarke's character. Did they care then? Do they care that they're not bringing back the other characters you mention? As BillyJill mentions, did they now prevent themselves from doing any flashbacks? I have a hard time crediting them for making a decision like this, and I'm sorry, I don't think it was motivated by the desire to honor Frances. I think this is a careless, quick decision just like all the others.
Maybe it won't be as brief as it sounds? I'm kind of glad that Bill will be there, but it does seem like poor overall planning. They really should have held off on the Mickey story. I'm kind of hoping they just say screw it with the flashbacks, and show anything they want no matter which actor's face is in the clip. Show flashbacks of both Marie's, Wayne Northrop and Drake as Roman, both Bill's, and heck...show all the Mickeys! Confuse the new viewers!
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heartsaver


Ellie
Apr 23 2010, 12:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM
it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind. They want Bill Horton present, as it should be. Just because they've made excuses in the past doesn't man you do it now and you definitely don't do it in this instance when it's a tribute for Frances Reid. Days needs to as much as possible. If not, then it would be a travesty.
Viewers won't identify with the character as Bill, it's poor casting in the first place, and my point in bringing up the past was to show that it doesn't even need to be done. Days has had emotional weddings/funerals/whatever without recasting. I don't see how a token recast like this will help at all. It's a tribute to Frances to do a one-time recast? I'll be honest: they must have known Frances was quite ill when they made the decision to kill off John Clarke's character. Did they care then? Do they care that they're not bringing back the other characters you mention? As BillyJill mentions, did they now prevent themselves from doing any flashbacks? I have a hard time crediting them for making a decision like this, and I'm sorry, I don't think it was motivated by the desire to honor Frances. I think this is a careless, quick decision just like all the others.
I completely agree. It would have made more sense to have Bill visit Alice offscreen and be there when she passed away. They could explain away his absence at the funeral by saying that Alice had told him to go back to Africa to help his patients. You're bringing back a lot of actors who have worked with Frances and with each other over the years. And then you're adding a complete newcomer to the show and pretending that he has that same history. Bad idea.

Excellent point about Mickey's death. TPTB obviously knew Frances was very ill and that they would soon be doing a tribute to Alice Horton. I don't know if John Clarke would have been physically up for a brief return but how wonderful would it have been to have seen him come back to say goodbye to Alice.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Ellie
Apr 23 2010, 12:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM
it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind. They want Bill Horton present, as it should be. Just because they've made excuses in the past doesn't man you do it now and you definitely don't do it in this instance when it's a tribute for Frances Reid. Days needs to as much as possible. If not, then it would be a travesty.
Viewers won't identify with the character as Bill, it's poor casting in the first place, and my point in bringing up the past was to show that it doesn't even need to be done. Days has had emotional weddings/funerals/whatever without recasting. I don't see how a token recast like this will help at all. It's a tribute to Frances to do a one-time recast? I'll be honest: they must have known Frances was quite ill when they made the decision to kill off John Clarke's character. Did they care then? Do they care that they're not bringing back the other characters you mention? As BillyJill mentions, did they now prevent themselves from doing any flashbacks? I have a hard time crediting them for making a decision like this, and I'm sorry, I don't think it was motivated by the desire to honor Frances. I think this is a careless, quick decision just like all the others.
Viewers won't identify with most of the returns so why d anything then? Seriously, there are some viewers out there that wouldn't even identify with John and Marlena if you brought them back. Does that mean you don't do it? This tribute is for Frances Reid and for longtime fans to remember her and have closure. This is why I wouldn't be surprised if ratings dropped. I'm sure many viewers won't care about this. It will just be the die hard fans and longtime fans (and former fans) that will but that doesn't mean you shy away from it. This has to be done and it has to be done right

Bringing up Mickey's death isn't the same. Days made the decision to kill him off after years of first recasting the role and then trying to keep him around without an actor. It didn't work. Yes, they knew Frances was ill. Her health had been declining for years but there was no way of knowing she would pass away within a month of Mickey's death onscreen. You can't prepare for that and you shouldn't write with that in mind. I'm sure everyone was still hopeful she would fight and still be around. Afterall, Frances had fought illness for years and quite valiantly. In a way, it's probably a good thing that they killed Mickey. What would they do now? They would have to recast like they did with Bill.

I'm concerned about flashbacks too but other shows have done it despite recasts. I'm actually more worried about flashbacks associated with other characters more then I am with Bill. There isn't really a whole lot of Bill/Alice ones, at least not compared to some of the other characters. I still want to see some though. All I know is it's more important he will be present then the flashback issue. If Bill were handled like Tommy for the past twenty or so years, I would get behind the notion that he isn't needed. However, for longtime fans, he is needed, even with a new face. Jennifer, Lucas, Laura, Mike, and Marie will all be around and you expect longtime fans to buy Bill Horton not being there for his mother's funeral? That doesn't fly. Just because the show messed up in the past and made excuses doesn't mean you don't go all out now when the matriarch of the show dies. This has to be handled to a high level. No excuses.

And the suggestion that they don't care...if they didn't care why would they do this? Corday's devoting alot of time to this. He thought of Frances like a mother. This hit him and the cast hard. It matters to them. He's bringing back several characters for more then just an episode or two. That is how your remark about this being a careless, quick decision is ridiculous. He mentioned back in February that they were deciding what to do about Bill. They clearly carefully planned all this. I get that you and others are jaded and I can totally understand questioning the actor being brought on (although he probably is no more miscast then JLB and RC) but acting like the show is just shoddily throwing this together and acting like this is a bad decision is a notion that I can't even see logic in.
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lysie
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PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 12:45 PM
Ellie
Apr 23 2010, 12:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM
it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind. They want Bill Horton present, as it should be. Just because they've made excuses in the past doesn't man you do it now and you definitely don't do it in this instance when it's a tribute for Frances Reid. Days needs to as much as possible. If not, then it would be a travesty.
Viewers won't identify with the character as Bill, it's poor casting in the first place, and my point in bringing up the past was to show that it doesn't even need to be done. Days has had emotional weddings/funerals/whatever without recasting. I don't see how a token recast like this will help at all. It's a tribute to Frances to do a one-time recast? I'll be honest: they must have known Frances was quite ill when they made the decision to kill off John Clarke's character. Did they care then? Do they care that they're not bringing back the other characters you mention? As BillyJill mentions, did they now prevent themselves from doing any flashbacks? I have a hard time crediting them for making a decision like this, and I'm sorry, I don't think it was motivated by the desire to honor Frances. I think this is a careless, quick decision just like all the others.
Viewers won't identify with most of the returns so why d anything then? Seriously, there are some viewers out there that wouldn't even identify with John and Marlena if you brought them back. Does that mean you don't do it? This tribute is for Frances Reid and for longtime fans to remember her and have closure. This is why I wouldn't be surprised if ratings dropped. I'm sure many viewers won't care about this. It will just be the die hard fans and longtime fans (and former fans) that will but that doesn't mean you shy away from it. This has to be done and it has to be done right

Bringing up Mickey's death isn't the same. Days made the decision to kill him off after years of first recasting the role and then trying to keep him around without an actor. It didn't work. Yes, they knew Frances was ill. Her health had been declining for years but there was no way of knowing she would pass away within a month of Mickey's death onscreen. You can't prepare for that and you shouldn't write with that in mind. I'm sure everyone was still hopeful she would fight and still be around. Afterall, Frances had fought illness for years and quite valiantly. In a way, it's probably a good thing that they killed Mickey. What would they do now? They would have to recast like they did with Bill.

I'm concerned about flashbacks too but other shows have done it despite recasts. I'm actually more worried about flashbacks associated with other characters more then I am with Bill. There isn't really a whole lot of Bill/Alice ones, at least not compared to some of the other characters. I still want to see some though. All I know is it's more important he will be present then the flashback issue. If Bill were handled like Tommy for the past twenty or so years, I would get behind the notion that he isn't needed. However, for longtime fans, he is needed, even with a new face. Jennifer, Lucas, Laura, Mike, and Marie will all be around and you expect longtime fans to buy Bill Horton not being there for his mother's funeral? That doesn't fly. Just because the show messed up in the past and made excuses doesn't mean you don't go all out now when the matriarch of the show dies. This has to be handled to a high level. No excuses.

And the suggestion that they don't care...if they didn't care why would they do this? Corday's devoting alot of time to this. He thought of Frances like a mother. This hit him and the cast hard. It matters to them. He's bringing back several characters for more then just an episode or two. That is how your remark about this being a careless, quick decision is ridiculous. He mentioned back in February that they were deciding what to do about Bill. They clearly carefully planned all this. I get that you and others are jaded and I can totally understand questioning the actor being brought on (although he probably is no more miscast then JLB and RC) but acting like the show is just shoddily throwing this together and acting like this is a bad decision is a notion that I can't even see logic in.
Apparently, that's exactly what it means.
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DesignatedShelley
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lysie
Apr 23 2010, 12:30 PM
Kevc1980
Apr 23 2010, 12:11 PM
Amello
Apr 23 2010, 11:33 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Has he met him onscreen? I don't remember that.
Wasn't he there for the Bill is the father reveal?
Yeah, Lucas and Kate and Laura and Vivian and Bill and Jennifer were all there, it was at a party, I think a Titan party IIRC.


For the record, I don't think this is a bad idea, I don't see it doing that much harm. It will be hard to be attached to the actor but that has to be balanced against the character's absence quite frankly being weird if simply alluded to. I'm mostly neutral about this, just will miss those flashbacks if they're going to be nixed now.

I don't think the last Mickey recast accomplished anything memorable, but neither did I feel it was all that damaging either.
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Drew
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Ewok

PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM

it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind.
Because John Martin and his Bill have no connection to Francis Reid and shouldnt be taking up space in a tribute when there are others they should be calling.
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jaygibson77
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I made the comment a few years ago when FR's health began declining that maybe it was time to let Alice die respectfully while most of the cast was still around to say goodbye. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful at all. FR could stay in the titles as the star and when she felt like it, why not let Alice's spirit comfort/guide those she cares about. But it was met with such hatred as if I said burn her at the stake. Seriously, FR was a professional and would have understood despite the immaturity and sentimentality of some fans.

I hope that even with the recast (and the cast selections for Laura and Mike) we will still be treated with flashbacks. I think it might be a time when someone, maybe Susan Hayes to step out of character and say hey, this is a show, and because of the passage of time, and for story purposes, the roles have been played by other people. During Days 25th anniversary flashbacks included different actors in the same role. Go ahead with it.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

heartsaver
Apr 23 2010, 12:41 PM
Ellie
Apr 23 2010, 12:10 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM
it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind. They want Bill Horton present, as it should be. Just because they've made excuses in the past doesn't man you do it now and you definitely don't do it in this instance when it's a tribute for Frances Reid. Days needs to as much as possible. If not, then it would be a travesty.
Viewers won't identify with the character as Bill, it's poor casting in the first place, and my point in bringing up the past was to show that it doesn't even need to be done. Days has had emotional weddings/funerals/whatever without recasting. I don't see how a token recast like this will help at all. It's a tribute to Frances to do a one-time recast? I'll be honest: they must have known Frances was quite ill when they made the decision to kill off John Clarke's character. Did they care then? Do they care that they're not bringing back the other characters you mention? As BillyJill mentions, did they now prevent themselves from doing any flashbacks? I have a hard time crediting them for making a decision like this, and I'm sorry, I don't think it was motivated by the desire to honor Frances. I think this is a careless, quick decision just like all the others.
I completely agree. It would have made more sense to have Bill visit Alice offscreen and be there when she passed away. They could explain away his absence at the funeral by saying that Alice had told him to go back to Africa to help his patients. You're bringing back a lot of actors who have worked with Frances and with each other over the years. And then you're adding a complete newcomer to the show and pretending that he has that same history. Bad idea.

Excellent point about Mickey's death. TPTB obviously knew Frances was very ill and that they would soon be doing a tribute to Alice Horton. I don't know if John Clarke would have been physically up for a brief return but how wonderful would it have been to have seen him come back to say goodbye to Alice.
John Clarke was never going to come back. SR even mentioned a few months before Mickey died onscreen that John had a stroke.

The show needed to handle the Mickey situation. They had no idea Frances would pass. She was very ill for a long time. You can't put something off based on that unless you were told a timetable on when she would pass and I'm sure they weren't. The Mickey situation pretty much worked out better for them. They would've had to recast him too for this and at least now they won't have any problem with Mickey flashbacks since the show started showing pictures and flashbacks of John Clarke's Mickey right before they killed him. In a way, the show actually helped themselves, although I'm sure they don't like the idea of Mickey and Alice being gone in the same year. It's a bit much but, again, unless someone is psychic or they were told by someone how long she had left, they could have no way planned accordingly.
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Drew
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Ewok

PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 12:45 PM

I'm concerned about flashbacks too but other shows have done it despite recasts. I'm actually more worried about flashbacks associated with other characters more then I am with Bill. There isn't really a whole lot of Bill/Alice ones, at least not compared to some of the other characters.
Other than there being tons they could have pulled from Ed Mallory's 14 years.
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DesignatedShelley
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Hope you guys are right about the flashbacks, this is as good an occasion as any to go all out with those. I would love love love to see Ed Mallory and Frances Reid together, all I've ever seen is one Christmas with them and Rosemary Forsythe's Laura.
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jaygibson77
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The woman was 96 years old and was feeble. I think they had an idea she wouldn't last much longer. I don't mean for that to sound insensitive but let's face facts and be adults here. My great grandmother is her nineties and I'm happy she's been blessed to still be with us, but I know it's not forever.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Drew
Apr 23 2010, 12:50 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 11:44 AM

it's funny that even when Days does something right some have to question or bash. How can a decision like this be bashed? It boggles my mind.
Because John Martin and his Bill have no connection to Francis Reid and shouldnt be taking up space in a tribute when there are others they should be calling.
The actors that played Bill passed away. What else can they do? If they left it alone and said he was "there" and never showed him, people would be pissed. If they left him in Africa, people would be pissed. Now, they do something about it and people are pissed. The show truly is damned if they do and damned if they don't and people wonder why I defend it as much as I do LOL.

They can still use flashbacks and work around it. At least the character is there and the show is dealing with it. JLB's Laura and RC's Mike don't have the connection with Alice that I and many others prefer either (and, unlike with Bill, the show could've tried to bring back one of the other actors who played the characters) but at least the characters are there. To me, that is the primary objective.
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PhoenixRising05
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GET EM STEPH!!

Drew
Apr 23 2010, 12:55 PM
PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 12:45 PM

I'm concerned about flashbacks too but other shows have done it despite recasts. I'm actually more worried about flashbacks associated with other characters more then I am with Bill. There isn't really a whole lot of Bill/Alice ones, at least not compared to some of the other characters.
Other than there being tons they could have pulled from Ed Mallory's 14 years.
Which they can still use.

I think fans are smart enough to realize who it is. As I noted, this is for longtime fans. Most of Days current viewers probably could care less. You just prepare the best tribute you can.
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Ellie


PhoenixRising05
Apr 23 2010, 12:45 PM
Viewers won't identify with most of the returns so why d anything then? Seriously, there are some viewers out there that wouldn't even identify with John and Marlena if you brought them back. Does that mean you don't do it? This tribute is for Frances Reid and for longtime fans to remember her and have closure. This is why I wouldn't be surprised if ratings dropped. I'm sure many viewers won't care about this. It will just be the die hard fans and longtime fans (and former fans) that will but that doesn't mean you shy away from it. This has to be done and it has to be done right.
What? Let's say 100 people are watching the show, and let's say Drake and Deidre were back. How many people would know them as J&M? Let's say 85. How many people will know John Martin as Bill Horton? 0.

Quote:
 
Bringing up Mickey's death isn't the same. Days made the decision to kill him off after years of first recasting the role and then trying to keep him around without an actor. It didn't work. Yes, they knew Frances was ill. Her health had been declining for years but there was no way of knowing she would pass away within a month of Mickey's death onscreen. You can't prepare for that and you shouldn't write with that in mind. I'm sure everyone was still hopeful she would fight and still be around. Afterall, Frances had fought illness for years and quite valiantly. In a way, it's probably a good thing that they killed Mickey. What would they do now? They would have to recast like they did with Bill.
No, I bet John Clarke would be able to make a brief appearance. Frances appeared for years in poor health. Days killed Mickey because they were looking for a quick and easy ratings boost, and they didn't get it. They didn't care about the character then, just as they don't care enough about Bill Horton to use flashbacks now.

Quote:
 
I'm concerned about flashbacks too but other shows have done it despite recasts. I'm actually more worried about flashbacks associated with other characters more then I am with Bill. There isn't really a whole lot of Bill/Alice ones, at least not compared to some of the other characters. I still want to see some though. All I know is it's more important he will be present then the flashback issue. If Bill were handled like Tommy for the past twenty or so years, I would get behind the notion that he isn't needed. However, for longtime fans, he is needed, even with a new face. Jennifer, Lucas, Laura, Mike, and Marie will all be around and you expect longtime fans to buy Bill Horton not being there for his mother's funeral? That doesn't fly. Just because the show messed up in the past and made excuses doesn't mean you don't go all out now when the matriarch of the show dies. This has to be handled to a high level. No excuses.
Where we disagree is that I see this as another example of "messing up". You say here that "for longtime fans, he is needed', yet you're willing to dismiss the idea of John and Marlena above because of all the new viewers. Well, which is it? Days kills Mickey when John Clarke is thankfully very much alive, yet they forget about Bill Horton when his portrayer(s) sadly died. I don't think they have anyone's best interest in mind with these quick-and-easy decisions. The right way to preserve the show's integrity is to use flashbacks with the original actors. I can't see them doing that if another actor appears in the present, though I hope I'm wrong.

Quote:
 
And the suggestion that they don't care...if they didn't care why would they do this? Corday's devoting alot of time to this. He thought of Frances like a mother. This hit him and the cast hard. It matters to them. He's bringing back several characters for more then just an episode or two. That is how your remark about this being a careless, quick decision is ridiculous. He mentioned back in February that they were deciding what to do about Bill. They clearly carefully planned all this. I get that you and others are jaded and I can totally understand questioning the actor being brought on (although he probably is no more miscast then JLB and RC) but acting like the show is just shoddily throwing this together and acting like this is a bad decision is a notion that I can't even see logic in.
What you're basically saying is that I should give Corday a free pass because this is Frances. I'm sorry, but I can't. I do give him credit for asking back who he has, but even with that, I see the show making selfish decisions. Some of what they "clearly carefully planned" was planned quite poorly imo, and I think I have a right to express that here.

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sungrey


John Martin does have white hair, though... or gray hair at the least, or I thought he did on Sunset Beach. I could be wrong.
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