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EastEnders Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 13 2010, 01:57 AM (63,202 Views)
Grandpa Hughes
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"Dedicated to the brotherhood of healing. "

That episode was breathtaking. The fact that the Beale family tragedy was live is incredible. No flubs or hamming it up. They were ripped apart and then came together except for Peter. It makes sense for that to be his exit story. I usually like the Carters but I think they should have taken a back seat. It was annoying and back to where we were with Dean last week with only Mick knowing if he's alive or dead. And the proposal could have waited too.I was really glad to see Phil back and trying to tell Ian the news. When she gets back permanently it ought to be
great. I really want Phil to deal with Max quickly.
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Drew
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Manny
Feb 20 2015, 02:40 PM
I can breathe easy.. it was not Jane after all.. I love Jane/Laurie Brett and I would hate to see her leave the show because she killed Lucy. I felt the same for Abi and Lauren.. I think I can say those three ladies are my favorite EE ladies (followed by Tanya and Stacey).. I am kinda "meh" about Bobby being a killer.. simply because I don't see how he could kill her.. with a jewelry box.. but okay.. it was a surprise, I guess..

I loved the hour long show. I thought they once again did a great job with the live elements.

Dot's story was good, although I was horrified that they would have 10 people protect Dot's secret.. that would NEVER happen nor it would EVER work.. someone would tell someone as soon as they left the house. It was a stupid plan. I am happy they didn't go down that route. Scenes in the car with Dot were a bit bad, but being that it was the only live Dot scene, I forgive them.

Kim stuff was great. I loved it. I love that they had a birth in a live show. Although my live stream died at the moment when she gave birth and the baby didn't start crying. Stream didn't turn back on until Kim was being taken out by paramedics. But it was interesting to watch Kim and Denise's dynamics.

Kat was annoying, but Kat is always annoying to me. I was happy that she wasn't featured that much.

That Dean guy.. I have no idea who he is, but I was bored by that part. All in all, I think their guest people (Dean, Tanya, Peggy) kinda fell flat. They just threw them in without much of a story prepared. It was just for the sake of having them there for the anniversary. Especially Dean and Peggy.

I will always love Tanya and Max, but even I wouldn't want them back together. I was a little bit upset that Tanya just left town without even seeing Lauren. Did she not even care to see her daughter?

The flashback episode was (I felt) a bit boring and dragging at moments. I felt like there shouldn't have been other stories in it (like Ronnie/Charlie stuff).. I thought the actress that played Lucy did a great job. Jane/Lucy moment was really nice and sad at same time. The ending was great when they went live again and revealed it was Bobby.

I am interested in seeing how it plays out tonight. Although, I wonder how this didn't leak before. Yes, they did it live, but they already taped next week's episodes! If they contain Ian/Jane scenes next week, they had to have talked about Bobby being the killer. They cannot have Jane/Ian, even Masood and Peter, Cindy and Bobby appear like nothing happened. Will they just not be appearing in the next few weeks? I wonder how they will deal with it...

Deano is Shirley's son, brother to Carly and they both were on the show when Shirley was first introduced. Dean(without the O) came back full time early last year to rehash the rocky history with his mother and ended up raping Linda Carter in the Vic kitchen in the fall.

I didn't understand Tanya not seeing Lauren. Every one of Jo Joyner's scenes was a live scene though and we knew Lauren wouldn't be featuring in anything live after the weekend, if she was ever intended to even have a small disposable scene with Tanya.

I was less impressed with the flashback episode as well. It was nice to see the dots connect and all but those dots weren't all that interesting to begin with. I'd always wondered if a Cold Case Files / Investigation Discovery channel or a The Killing type story that spans months and years to find a killer could work in a soap. Didn't work so much here. Maybe the just needed writers with a greater background in mystery. I'm VERY interested in the fallout with Bobby though, far more than I was in the actual whodunit. As for Charlie/Ronnie, this new Vincent character better be worth all this pimping.

They did say they were conscious about not repeating 2010's mistake of having Stacey reveal live that she killed Archie and then disappear for 6 weeks in the pre-taped and leave the audience hanging. We'll see how they do it.
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Drew
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Grandpa Hughes
Feb 20 2015, 05:47 PM
That episode was breathtaking. The fact that the Beale family tragedy was live is incredible. No flubs or hamming it up. They were ripped apart and then came together except for Peter. It makes sense for that to be his exit story. I usually like the Carters but I think they should have taken a back seat. It was annoying and back to where we were with Dean last week with only Mick knowing if he's alive or dead. And the proposal could have waited too.I was really glad to see Phil back and trying to tell Ian the news. When she gets back permanently it ought to be
great. I really want Phil to deal with Max quickly.
The episode was spectacular.

I didn't notice any acting flubs. There were a couple of ill-timed zooms from the camera. And the actress playing Cindy was doing something with her hair or arm as Jane was pulling her into frame for that group hug at the end but I don't know if I'd count that. Soooo yeah, sorry Jo Joyner :lol:

The Beales were spectacular! I can't believe they pulled that level of tension and emotion off live! I had chills and tears on multiple occasions, you could just feel everything. When Peter realized the truth standing behind Jane, Ian wretching in the kitchen, THE LETTER. Flawless.

Julia's theme was a great touch and the calm of Walford was a great touch.

I'm really glad they ended the episode though on the fireworks and David Guetta's What I Did for Love. EastEnders always has this unwarranted reputation of always being depressing so it was nice to end it with a celebration to break the heavy. It juxtaposed well with the Julia's Theme.
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Drew
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And I don't think I mentioned it before but I have so much love for that nighttime EastEnders intro!
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Drew
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Actually, one thing I did just notice. I think that picture on the mantle is the 2013-2014 Bobby, not the current one.

And is it weird that Ian doesn't have a picture of Pauline and Pete?
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CarlD2
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The Carter material still stuck out like a sore thumb for me, with a whole host of silly and completely unsuspenseful wandering around and dithering that yet again, miraculously, managed to isolate them from most of the cast until the end (Danny Dyer was, IMO, very poor, as was Maddy Hill - he barely tried and she was very obviously "acting"). I actually saw someone saying that Danny Dyer stole the entire episode. I guess opinions are like assholes...

I don't know if you could have a more sobering contrast between the strengths and weaknesses of Eastenders as what we got in that episode.

I also thought it was odd, and oddly hilarious, that Christian was completely excluded from anything with the Beales (even just a quick scene in this past episode of him seeing Peter run out of the house and looking concerned would have made sense). I never thought of him as part of the family, but I thought the show did. Oh well. No big loss.

Max and Abi grinning and celebrating felt off to me too. I get the idea of wanting a happy moment at the end, but I would have just gone with the show ending on Julia's Theme and the Tony and Julia heart on the wall. Still, it was an OK end.

Otherwise this episode was much stronger than I'd expected. There's an idea that live TV is just a reason for goofs, but it can also be a reason for searing drama that you "feel" more strongly because you are watching as it happens. I'm glad we got that in this episode.

The decision to lie for Bobby is one that doesn't make any great sense, as he killed someone, he could kill again, he needs treatment. Yet, for the characters involved, I thought it made sense. Jane sees Bobby as her great hope after her other plans to have kids never panned out. Ian is a very weak man who has often made the wrong choices with his children. Cindy spends most of her time with him and has a young child of her own, and in many ways is still a child herself (I do wonder if Bobby will end up hurting her daughter).

The main reason this worked for me is because the show had Peter be so disgusted with their decision, instead of what we often get on this show (and on most soaps these days) - lots of insincere chest-thumping and pouting. I guess Ben Hardy's decision to leave helped solidify this, but it still felt so believable and it actually did get to me seeing the family torn to pieces by this lie. That is probably the only reason I could support this writing choice - I have no time for "psycho soap child" stories, especially since I don't think the boy in the role can play that type of material. When they focus on the fallout of the choice, it is far stronger writing. Seeing Peter rage that he was going to kill Bobby, seeing him lunge at Jane and have to be physically restrained, seeing him tell Jane he isn't even her son and she just uses him, that Ian never even wanted Bobby - wonderful use of Ian's tattered history and a great way to blow up this family. Bobby overhearing them fighting when he'd killed Lucy to stop fighting was a sobering moment.

All the (offcamera) smashing of dishes and Ian going to vomit didn't feel melodramatic to me, as they normally would have. They just seemed like the release the characters have been denied while trying to force themselves into happiness over the last year.

Hearing them go on at length about Lucy's murder, moving her body, her body rotting away on public display ("you made her a victim!") were everything that needed to be done to remember that Lucy wasn't just a generic blonde girl killed off for shock value. She mattered. I hadn't felt like they'd remembered that so I was very pleased they did tonight.

Mimi Keene was a little off for me in various scenes but she sold the hell out of the letter-reading scene, as did Adam Woodyatt.

Adam is, when he gets the chance, a wonderful actor. So often he's just treated as a joke and a loser in the writing, and never given lead material. The Beales shouldn't be treated that way. They still have so much to offer Eastenders. I'd like to believe tonight was the start of finally giving them proper respect, especially with Kathy coming back. I really would like to believe this...

One of my main complaints with DTC has always been that I feel like he mistakes bad camp and bizarre Dynasty/Dallas hybrids with good drama. That everything has to be a parody or dumbed down. That he doesn't see you can have strong, tough, and yes, over the top drama, and still treat it seriously and with integrity.

Tonight, for the first time since he took over with Santer in 2007, I felt like he really, truly got it.

And for the first time, I think Julia Smith and Tony Holland would have been proud.
Edited by CarlD2, Feb 20 2015, 11:30 PM.
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Drew
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I don't feel the Carter's are being purposely isolated from the rest of the cast at all. Definitely not any more than the Slaters or the Masoods. Most of the family units on this show exist in their own stories and the Vic is the meeting ground.

Lee's had a fling with Lucy and an ongoing on/off with Whitney, Maddie's got connections with Tamwar and that wretched Dexter before he left, Linda has her simultaneous friendship and rivalry with Sharon, Tina is close friends with Sonia, Stan has his relationship with Cora and has had cantankerous run-ins with many in the Square including the Cokers, and had he not left we'd have continued to see Johnny and Ben.

The Masoods only associate with other brown characters. How's that not isolation?
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Manny
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CarlD2
Feb 20 2015, 11:25 PM
The decision to lie for Bobby is one that doesn't make any great sense, as he killed someone, he could kill again, he needs treatment. Yet, for the characters involved, I thought it made sense. Jane sees Bobby as her great hope after her other plans to have kids never panned out. Ian is a very weak man who has often made the wrong choices with his children. Cindy spends most of her time with him and has a young child of her own, and in many ways is still a child herself (I do wonder if Bobby will end up hurting her daughter).
Hmm, I never felt like that actually.

For what I saw, Bobby never meant to kill Lucy. He didn't think Lucy died. So I don't see him as a psycho child who would kill again, because he is evil. I don't think he has murderous tendencies and is a threat to society. So in that regard, I can see their decision to protect him as a reasonable choice. I don't know what I would do in this situation, but I can see it as believable.

But since this is a soap opera, I do see him eventually turning crazy over this when he gets older and having some meltdown and possibly killing/hurting someone else.
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CarlD2
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Drew
Feb 21 2015, 01:46 AM
I don't feel the Carter's are being purposely isolated from the rest of the cast at all. Definitely not any more than the Slaters or the Masoods. Most of the family units on this show exist in their own stories and the Vic is the meeting ground.

Lee's had a fling with Lucy and an ongoing on/off with Whitney, Maddie's got connections with Tamwar and that wretched Dexter before he left, Linda has her simultaneous friendship and rivalry with Sharon, Tina is close friends with Sonia, Stan has his relationship with Cora and has had cantankerous run-ins with many in the Square including the Cokers, and had he not left we'd have continued to see Johnny and Ben.

The Masoods only associate with other brown characters. How's that not isolation?
There are barely any Masoods on the show at this point. When the Masoods were more prominent, they had very close ties to the Beales (which they still have at times), to Denise, Tamwar to the teen group, Syed was (off and on) friends with Janine.

The Slaters were more isolated than most families, but Little Mo had the relationship with Billy, Kat and Zoe with the Trueman family. The Kat/Zoe reveal also had an impact on Peggy, who was starting a new life with Harry Slater.

Has any Carter story - in over a year of heavy, constant story focus - had any real impact on anyone outside of the family?

- Johnny's coming out (the most I can say is Whitney pouted)
- Lee existing (a red herring for Lucy and an offcamera relationship with Whitney; a feud with Ben that was mostly dropped)
- the "I'm your muvva...soz I nearly drowned you at birth!" saga with Shirley and Mick (even Mick doesn't give a crap, much less anyone outside of the family)
- Linda's rape (some involvement from Stacey and Denise, but ultimately no real impact on their lives, as they seem to have moved on quickly enough)
- Tina's domestic violence (Sonia was a little involved)
- Nancy existing (she dated Dexter and is friendly with Tamwar; otherwise just props up the bar and makes faces at people)
- Stan's cancer (Cora is involved; otherwise I'm not sure if most of the people in Walford even know who the man is)

Even Dean planning to set a pub on fire with most of Walford inside it went completely unnoticed. I've never seen anything like that on a soap. The whole anniversary week pretty much kept every Carter story beat amongst the Carters, which I would say was to parallel them with the Beales (who were also keeping secrets), but it just felt like business as usual with them.
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CarlD2
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Manny
Feb 21 2015, 03:01 AM
Hmm, I never felt like that actually.

For what I saw, Bobby never meant to kill Lucy. He didn't think Lucy died. So I don't see him as a psycho child who would kill again, because he is evil. I don't think he has murderous tendencies and is a threat to society. So in that regard, I can see their decision to protect him as a reasonable choice. I don't know what I would do in this situation, but I can see it as believable.

But since this is a soap opera, I do see him eventually turning crazy over this when he gets older and having some meltdown and possibly killing/hurting someone else.
He didn't mean to kill her, but he did plan to hurt her, and he's since forgotten the whole thing, which is a messy situation - what if Cindy's baby cries too much and annoys him, and he decides to shut her up? Who knows what may happen with so much rolling around in his head.

I do think it's believable that the family would cover for him, but I think it won't end well. I just hope they won't go the "crazy soap kid" route and play it up as bad camp, like they did with Ben. Seeing some viewers laugh and laugh over Ben beating other children and abusing his sister was disturbing to say the least.
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Manny
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Oh it will end bad for sure! There is no way Bobby grows up being a normal person.. lol

But I like people with issues on soaps.. it brings in the drama.. :)
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Drew
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Ian and Jane will be put in the position of watching an innocent person arrested for the murder. I guess the 2nd time now for Jane.

Pretty sure this will end up being Lauren.
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CarlD2
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I tend to wonder if it really will end up being dropped.

It would be an interesting twist if they framed somebody (if Nick was still alive he could have filled that role).
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Drew
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CarlD2
Feb 21 2015, 01:43 PM
Drew
Feb 21 2015, 01:46 AM
I don't feel the Carter's are being purposely isolated from the rest of the cast at all. Definitely not any more than the Slaters or the Masoods. Most of the family units on this show exist in their own stories and the Vic is the meeting ground.

Lee's had a fling with Lucy and an ongoing on/off with Whitney, Maddie's got connections with Tamwar and that wretched Dexter before he left, Linda has her simultaneous friendship and rivalry with Sharon, Tina is close friends with Sonia, Stan has his relationship with Cora and has had cantankerous run-ins with many in the Square including the Cokers, and had he not left we'd have continued to see Johnny and Ben.

The Masoods only associate with other brown characters. How's that not isolation?
There are barely any Masoods on the show at this point. When the Masoods were more prominent, they had very close ties to the Beales (which they still have at times), to Denise, Tamwar to the teen group, Syed was (off and on) friends with Janine.

The Slaters were more isolated than most families, but Little Mo had the relationship with Billy, Kat and Zoe with the Trueman family. The Kat/Zoe reveal also had an impact on Peggy, who was starting a new life with Harry Slater.

Has any Carter story - in over a year of heavy, constant story focus - had any real impact on anyone outside of the family?

- Johnny's coming out (the most I can say is Whitney pouted)
- Lee existing (a red herring for Lucy and an offcamera relationship with Whitney; a feud with Ben that was mostly dropped)
- the "I'm your muvva...soz I nearly drowned you at birth!" saga with Shirley and Mick (even Mick doesn't give a crap, much less anyone outside of the family)
- Linda's rape (some involvement from Stacey and Denise, but ultimately no real impact on their lives, as they seem to have moved on quickly enough)
- Tina's domestic violence (Sonia was a little involved)
- Nancy existing (she dated Dexter and is friendly with Tamwar; otherwise just props up the bar and makes faces at people)
- Stan's cancer (Cora is involved; otherwise I'm not sure if most of the people in Walford even know who the man is)

Even Dean planning to set a pub on fire with most of Walford inside it went completely unnoticed. I've never seen anything like that on a soap. The whole anniversary week pretty much kept every Carter story beat amongst the Carters, which I would say was to parallel them with the Beales (who were also keeping secrets), but it just felt like business as usual with them.
Peggy moved on from Harry in about the same time Stacey told Dean to kick rocks.
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Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

So Corrie and Emmerdale sent flowers, how nice.

https://twitter.com/dominictc/status/567661525679489024/photo/1

https://twitter.com/bbceastenders/status/568843888162680832/photo/1
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Manny
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Y&RWorldTurner
Feb 21 2015, 11:58 PM
I love how UK soaps support each other like that. Didn't Dot say on EE that she has to watch Corrie at the same time when Corrie was celebrating some anniversary? I thought that was cool!
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Y&RWorldTurner
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Sharongate, bitches!

I wonder if Adam Woodyatt now regrets this interview:

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a203908/enders-ian-kathy-return-wouldnt-work.html
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Drew
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Probably not. I wouldn't trust Bryan Kirkwood with her return either.
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Grandpa Hughes
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"Dedicated to the brotherhood of healing. "

He's over the moon about it five years later. People change over a period like that. I look at things I wrote five years ago and wonder what I was smoking.
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Bright Eyes
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So happy to see Peter and Lauren happily leave together with baby in the oven and Julia's Theme! Well deserved.
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