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Dena Higley FIRED!; New Headwriters: Marlene McPherson and Darrell Ray Thomas
Topic Started: May 19 2011, 11:35 AM (54,689 Views)
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PhoenixRising05
May 31 2011, 07:21 PM
HASdays
May 31 2011, 07:07 PM
SocRMum1
May 31 2011, 03:04 PM
Mason
May 31 2011, 12:15 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Exactly. Higley's writing was shit from day one. It's all about the plot points - there is no attempt to create continuity or build layers in the stories. And if it's true there were no break down writers, I say that makes it even more Higley's fault because she can't use the excuse that her vision was lost in the translation.


I think she had some good ideas. :) They just didn't follow through well. Previously, if she was writing as head writer, she'd come up with a storyline idea, and breakdown writers would play it out. It's the way it's playing out that isn't working

Part of that is an inability to stick to the personalities of the characters, which i'd say at this point, she can't do. Hence, the plot writing.

Mason,I don't have a problem with saying I'm wrong, but providing some information as to why you think I am would be helpful.
I will say some of her ideas are good but it's how she chooses to execute them that sucks.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Good concept, but the execution is off the wall.

Quote:
 

Take, for instance, her first run in 2003. She had Bo quit the force and sort of took Bo and Hope back to their roots in terms of going off on adventures. The problem is her way of doing this was making them bounty hunters and having them go after mysterious goop.


LOL! oh, I missed that thankfully.

Quote:
 

Same with J&J. She made them investigate things again with the Carson Palmer saga but that lasted a month and then she decided to take them back to their talk show roots but it was horribly done. She knows the history and uses it but she does it all wrong.


I think running amok over the history goes along with not being able to write characters consistently.

I think it was plot-driven, absolutely. The characters were turned upside down to carry the plot. That's lazy or incompetent writing - it's far trickier to figure out how to get these things to happen when you stay within a character. it's also far more fun for the viewers to watch when the characters stay true.

Quote:
 

This run it was clear that Tomlin and Whitesell were who kept things afloat and the times when she finally had the show to herself (January-July 2010, January 2011-present), it completely fell apart. It has nothing to do with the writing team. They often saved her stuff from being worse. And the show does have breakdown writers. The position went away at Days after the strike in early 2008 but when Tomlin and Whitesell joined in Fall 2008, the position was brought back. I recall Toups at SON pointing that out. Christopher Dunn, who was announced as joining the writing team months ago, is supposed to come on as a breakdown writer (I would guess his name will be in the credits soon).


ahh, ok. So the breakdown writers do things like the dialogue, etc.

Do you think it was Dena coming up with this crazy Tarantantino-Lite storyline? Like the R2 bedroom scene, Johnny's macabre eye episodes (which has not been swept under the rug like Philip's leg), and how Sami shooting EJ played out. I don't take issue with her shooting him, but showing it so realistically wasn't soapy.[/quote]
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AngelOB
May 31 2011, 10:54 PM
SocRMum1
May 31 2011, 09:31 PM
HASdays
May 31 2011, 07:07 PM
SocRMum1
May 31 2011, 03:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep


I think she had some good ideas. :) They just didn't follow through well. Previously, if she was writing as head writer, she'd come up with a storyline idea, and breakdown writers would play it out. It's the way it's playing out that isn't working

Part of that is an inability to stick to the personalities of the characters, which i'd say at this point, she can't do. Hence, the plot writing.

Mason,I don't have a problem with saying I'm wrong, but providing some information as to why you think I am would be helpful.
Which previous stories that she came up with but were given to break down writers worked in your opinion? I'm not aware of any stories she's written where she hasn't completely sacrificed key characters in order to fit her plot - be it for a day, a week or much longer. Characters that viewers have come to know for years are no longer recognizable under Dena's pen - and the character traits she chooses to give them change with the wind. Melanie is a character she created - and look at how all over the map she's been with her. She's a naughty con artist; she's a misunderstood vixen; she's a helpless victim; she's an independently wealthy nurse...or is she? Who can tell from one episode to the next?

Melanie is just an example of a character I couldn't give two shits about that's been poorly written - my level of frustration in watching her do the same sort of thing to characters I've loved for years is 10,000 times worse.
Every character created under Dena's reign has been a complete and utter failure because she's not capable of writing characters while giving the audience a true sense of who they are. Your Melanie example is perfect, exactly who is Melanie supposed to be? Since Dena writes for her plots and not for character development, it's no wonder any character she created wouldn't connect with the audience. How is the audience supposed to connect with a character who's motivations are constantly changed from one week to the next and who's development is non-existent? Why should I care about Dario? Because he's Rafe's brother? I've got news for you Dena, I don't give a shit about Rafe either because you never actually delved into his backstory and showed us what kind of person he actually is. He's a law-abiding FBI agent who also promotes illegal adoption and covering up attempted murder. He's a guy whose never before mentioned siblings have a nasty habit of showing up out of nowhere for no apparent reason. That's great, I still don't give a shit.
Melanie is all over the place.

I totally got that Rafe would help Sami cover up the EJ shooting - that made sense. But the way they wrote it happen lacked substance. I understood him helping her hide Grace, and we were given hints from his past as to why he would do what he does, but I agree, we never went into it.

Hopefully they will do that now. I think he's a great character, they just need to give Sami's drama a break and get into Rafe's. Perhaps when this current mess resolves, we'll get to that. I expect Emily to show up, lol. Or something about her at some point soon.
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tomsawyer
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HASdays
Jun 1 2011, 12:11 PM
PhoenixRising05
May 31 2011, 07:21 PM
HASdays
May 31 2011, 07:07 PM
SocRMum1
May 31 2011, 03:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep


I think she had some good ideas. :) They just didn't follow through well. Previously, if she was writing as head writer, she'd come up with a storyline idea, and breakdown writers would play it out. It's the way it's playing out that isn't working

Part of that is an inability to stick to the personalities of the characters, which i'd say at this point, she can't do. Hence, the plot writing.

Mason,I don't have a problem with saying I'm wrong, but providing some information as to why you think I am would be helpful.
I will say some of her ideas are good but it's how she chooses to execute them that sucks.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Good concept, but the execution is off the wall.

Quote:
 

Take, for instance, her first run in 2003. She had Bo quit the force and sort of took Bo and Hope back to their roots in terms of going off on adventures. The problem is her way of doing this was making them bounty hunters and having them go after mysterious goop.


LOL! oh, I missed that thankfully.

Quote:
 

Same with J&J. She made them investigate things again with the Carson Palmer saga but that lasted a month and then she decided to take them back to their talk show roots but it was horribly done. She knows the history and uses it but she does it all wrong.


I think running amok over the history goes along with not being able to write characters consistently.

I think it was plot-driven, absolutely. The characters were turned upside down to carry the plot. That's lazy or incompetent writing - it's far trickier to figure out how to get these things to happen when you stay within a character. it's also far more fun for the viewers to watch when the characters stay true.

Quote:
 

This run it was clear that Tomlin and Whitesell were who kept things afloat and the times when she finally had the show to herself (January-July 2010, January 2011-present), it completely fell apart. It has nothing to do with the writing team. They often saved her stuff from being worse. And the show does have breakdown writers. The position went away at Days after the strike in early 2008 but when Tomlin and Whitesell joined in Fall 2008, the position was brought back. I recall Toups at SON pointing that out. Christopher Dunn, who was announced as joining the writing team months ago, is supposed to come on as a breakdown writer (I would guess his name will be in the credits soon).


ahh, ok. So the breakdown writers do things like the dialogue, etc.

Do you think it was Dena coming up with this crazy Tarantantino-Lite storyline? Like the R2 bedroom scene, Johnny's macabre eye episodes (which has not been swept under the rug like Philip's leg), and how Sami shooting EJ played out. I don't take issue with her shooting him, but showing it so realistically wasn't soapy.
[/quote]I don't believe the breakdown writers do the dialogue. From what I understand, there are basically three layers...

Head writers - craft the direction and story lines - they basically decide who does what overall
Breakdown writers - turn the overall stories into specific episodes - they basically decide which events and scenes occur in which episodes
Script writers - take the breakdowns and write the episodes including the dialogue

So, while you could potentially blame breakdown writers for interspersing scenes of dying, bleeding EJ with Safe sex, it was still DH who decided to have Sami shoot a man in his sleep. It was still DH who decided to make Chloe a prostitute. It was still DH who decided EJ and Taylor would fall instantly in love. It was still DH who decided Carly would turn to drugs because of her love for Dr. Tan. It was still DH who decided Caroline is now a paternity test switcher. It was DH who decided Stephanie would try to get pregnant to hang onto a man.

And it was still DH who was only able to create new characters who have no background, no complexity and no soul. And it was still DH who ruined beloved characters by changing core aspects of their personalities to fit her plots. And it was still DH who couldn't effectively craft an engaging long-term story by playing out all the emotional beats and culminating with an emotional finale.

DH has completely sucked all of the heart out of Days of our Lives and she gets no pass from me because some script or breakdown writer may have made her shit worse. Even if you could have removed the fleas, you would have been left with a pile of shit.
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tomsawyer
Jun 1 2011, 01:40 PM
HASdays
Jun 1 2011, 12:11 PM
PhoenixRising05
May 31 2011, 07:21 PM
HASdays
May 31 2011, 07:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I will say some of her ideas are good but it's how she chooses to execute them that sucks.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Good concept, but the execution is off the wall.

Quote:
 

Take, for instance, her first run in 2003. She had Bo quit the force and sort of took Bo and Hope back to their roots in terms of going off on adventures. The problem is her way of doing this was making them bounty hunters and having them go after mysterious goop.


LOL! oh, I missed that thankfully.

Quote:
 

Same with J&J. She made them investigate things again with the Carson Palmer saga but that lasted a month and then she decided to take them back to their talk show roots but it was horribly done. She knows the history and uses it but she does it all wrong.


I think running amok over the history goes along with not being able to write characters consistently.

I think it was plot-driven, absolutely. The characters were turned upside down to carry the plot. That's lazy or incompetent writing - it's far trickier to figure out how to get these things to happen when you stay within a character. it's also far more fun for the viewers to watch when the characters stay true.

Quote:
 

This run it was clear that Tomlin and Whitesell were who kept things afloat and the times when she finally had the show to herself (January-July 2010, January 2011-present), it completely fell apart. It has nothing to do with the writing team. They often saved her stuff from being worse. And the show does have breakdown writers. The position went away at Days after the strike in early 2008 but when Tomlin and Whitesell joined in Fall 2008, the position was brought back. I recall Toups at SON pointing that out. Christopher Dunn, who was announced as joining the writing team months ago, is supposed to come on as a breakdown writer (I would guess his name will be in the credits soon).


ahh, ok. So the breakdown writers do things like the dialogue, etc.

Do you think it was Dena coming up with this crazy Tarantantino-Lite storyline? Like the R2 bedroom scene, Johnny's macabre eye episodes (which has not been swept under the rug like Philip's leg), and how Sami shooting EJ played out. I don't take issue with her shooting him, but showing it so realistically wasn't soapy.
I don't believe the breakdown writers do the dialogue. From what I understand, there are basically three layers...

Head writers - craft the direction and story lines - they basically decide who does what overall
Breakdown writers - turn the overall stories into specific episodes - they basically decide which events and scenes occur in which episodes
Script writers - take the breakdowns and write the episodes including the dialogue

So, while you could potentially blame breakdown writers for interspersing scenes of dying, bleeding EJ with Safe sex, it was still DH who decided to have Sami shoot a man in his sleep. It was still DH who decided to make Chloe a prostitute. It was still DH who decided EJ and Taylor would fall instantly in love. It was still DH who decided Carly would turn to drugs because of her love for Dr. Tan. It was still DH who decided Caroline is now a paternity test switcher. It was DH who decided Stephanie would try to get pregnant to hang onto a man.

And it was still DH who was only able to create new characters who have no background, no complexity and no soul. And it was still DH who ruined beloved characters by changing core aspects of their personalities to fit her plots. And it was still DH who couldn't effectively craft an engaging long-term story by playing out all the emotional beats and culminating with an emotional finale.

DH has completely sucked all of the heart out of Days of our Lives and she gets no pass from me because some script or breakdown writer may have made her shit worse. Even if you could have removed the fleas, you would have been left with a pile of shit.[/quote]Sami shooting EJ was great! I don't have a problem with her reaching the breaking point and shooting him in his sleep. Finishing him off before he was to kill himself was an interesting concept. The details were just too dark for daytime.

The sydnapping was a great idea. The baby switching as well. How they screwed around with SAmi to have her fall for yet ANOTHER of EJ's schemes was ridiculous and made no sense.

I think Rafe does have complexity and soul. The same complaints that say he is straight shooting by the book cop are amidst the complaints that he shouldn't cover up Sami shooting EJ. That fact that both of those happened shows complexity. The problem has been that they have hinted to his background and what drives him, but haven't shown us. The details are missing. Still a great character.

Chloe a prostitute would be ok if it was done better than it was. How it's happening is ridiculous. But we could see her hitting emotional bottom in all of this and becoming a prostitute either out of defiance or out of complete breakdown of self-esteem. The details just aren't flowing into this change for her at all.

great starting ideas, the follow through is weak.
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Fafokahw
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We have Dena and Crystal now fired, to me the show won't be right until either Gary Tomlin is next to be fired or at the very least his power is limited. I still blame him mostly for Days being horrid since late 2009 and beyond.
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JustJo
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Once upon a time I would have been thrilled that Higley's gone. But it's waaaaaaaayyyyyy too late for me. She and Kenny drove me away years ago and I don't know if there's any reason to return.
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lumifan4life85
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Just bumping this up because I love seeing it when I log on, LOL.
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Lumi_are_true_love


I was reading and curious as to when our new writers were here at Days and they were here in 1991-1999 and both worked with JER and were writing with JER during his first run here at DOOL's.

They helped to write some of my most favorite Lumi scenes ever with JER The Titan Photo Lab,Lumi helicopter scene,Spring Fling,Lucas checking Sami out in the mirror when she was changing out of his uniform,Twinkle Twinkle,Will being revealed as Lucas son,Sami calling Lucas general,Partners in crime and a whole lot more.

Thats awesome for I wasn't sure when they wrote for DOOL now I know. They were around during some really awesome Jack and Jennifer years as well along with Bo and Hope years and John and Marlena years also during this time. So if we truly are going back to the good old days this would be the way to do it for our new writers where here during these years and their was some pretty good stuff going on at the time for all these couples and Lucas and Sami too.
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Ellie


lumifan4life85
Jun 6 2011, 03:33 PM
Just bumping this up because I love seeing it when I log on, LOL.
LOL - please don't bump topics here just for the sake of it. But if there's one exception, it would be this one, wouldn't it? :smile:
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Andre


JustJo
Jun 3 2011, 11:03 PM
Once upon a time I would have been thrilled that Higley's gone. But it's waaaaaaaayyyyyy too late for me. She and Kenny drove me away years ago and I don't know if there's any reason to return.
Once the new material is airing, I'm giving the show a couple of weeks to see how it is. When a soap it written well with exciting stories, it can be a pleasure to watch. Peter Brash and Paula Cwikly did it with Days, until they were unfortunately replaced by Dena, and JER did it twice (until his second stint fell apart), and Hogan Sheffer was even decent for a while until he fell apart, too.

They better bring it.
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lazydazes
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And then some. It's way past time that fans had something to cheer about rather than complain. It seems that no one has been satisfied with the show in ages. Hopefully, there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Kenny
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Nelson Branco is reporting that Gary Tomlin has also been fired.
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Alin89
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plz tell me thats true kenny i want gary gone
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HelenM


Hardly a surprise.
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restless daze
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Now don't come whoopin' my ass at the grocery store cause I picked on your fav on here!

OH SHEEEEEIT! If NB can be believed.... :shrug:

But WOW.
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Kriss4


They sure are firing everybody and their brother.

We figured on some of it, but wow. It seems like every day there's some new firing.
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Kenny
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Kriss4
Jun 9 2011, 12:23 AM
They sure are firing everybody and their brother.
Well, have you seen the show lately? It's completely unwatchable. I hope even more people are given the boot. Anyone who has in any way contributed to the downfall of this show over the last three years deserves to be out on their asses.
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lucym


Kenny
Jun 9 2011, 12:25 AM
Kriss4
Jun 9 2011, 12:23 AM
They sure are firing everybody and their brother.

Well, have you seen the show lately? It's completely unwatchable. I hope even more people are given the boot. Anyone who has in any way contributed to the downfall of this show over the last three years deserves to be out on their asses.
All I need now is news of GG's departure and I'll know I've gone to heaven. Hope this latest news is true
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mer4santo
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I own you bitch.

Kenny
Jun 9 2011, 12:12 AM
Nelson Branco is reporting that Gary Tomlin has also been fired.
It's a fucking GREAT idea, let's hope Nelly is correct!
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EJWellsFan1


Kenny
Jun 9 2011, 12:12 AM
Nelson Branco is reporting that Gary Tomlin has also been fired.
Please tell me this is true and you are not just toying with me. Dena and Gary gone is too much to hope for. Maybe the show will actually be watchable again.

There is a soap god after all.
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