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Wednesday , January 25th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Jan 24 2012, 02:44 PM (7,570 Views)
DrewHamilton
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I don't mind Rafe and Carrie's "story" at all. I do wish they would have guest stars on like they did with Ruta Lee. We still don't have any real connection to these guest characters, but at least we'd be seeing them and it would have a CSI/Law and Order vibe. Some sort of connection would be made since we're actually seeing the character, rather than just hearing their story from Rafe and Carrie. The "story" for what it's worth, is fine and I don't mind MarDar doing side-stories like this that will set up bigger stories for the future. Rafe and Carrie's scenes at the office remind me of classic soap scenes that, in the episode itself, were about nothing, but led to big things down the road. That's where I see these scenes going.

I hope Chad's comment about Will being a fool for letting Gabi go comes up between the two before Will comes out. I want to see how it will effect Will and Chad's friendship, considering Chad is already throwing Will under the bus.

I agree that Maggie had no business being in the Titan business meeting scenes. Ever since she and Victor got married, it's like Maggie can't exist without him. Maggie has been a character without Victor since the 70s. There is no reason why them getting married makes them suddenly a pair that can't be seperated and are only in scenes together. Who do they think they are? Pre-2011 John and Marlena?
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Tom


Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
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Ellie


fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
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Tom


Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
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lysie


Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
It's like the one time the show does something subtlely, they're being told to be more blatant. It's pretty obvious he's gay.
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lysie


fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
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Tom


lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
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lysie


fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:41 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
My guess would be Sonny will be celibate until Will gets a love scene, lol.
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Aldo
Member Avatar


Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I actually think that Will knows already that he is gay and have been in the verge of saying the words but ultimately cannot utter them. I believe his angst and self-loathe comes from his inability to handle his reality and live openly as all the gay men he's been watching and sharing with in the past weeks. He wants to be open, he wants to be happy and he wants to be like those guys he met but the uncertainty he feels because he does not know for sure will happen once that truth is out deeply terrifies him.
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Angie79
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Royal Reporter

lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:42 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:41 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
My guess would be Sonny will be celibate until Will gets a love scene, lol.
Yep, I agree. The story is about Will. I don't think we will see any gay love scenes until it involves Will.
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Ellie


lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:42 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:41 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
My guess would be Sonny will be celibate until Will gets a love scene, lol.
Yeah, I agree. Will is the star of this story, and if they do a gay love scene, it will be his. But in any case, I agree with you Lysie - I really appreciate the subtlety of the story, and I think the fact that they can't do fantasies forces them to put more depth and character development into the writing itself.
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Tom


Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:47 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:42 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:41 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
My guess would be Sonny will be celibate until Will gets a love scene, lol.
Yeah, I agree. Will is the star of this story, and if they do a gay love scene, it will be his. But in any case, I agree with you Lysie - I really appreciate the subtlety of the story, and I think the fact that they can't do fantasies forces them to put more depth and character development into the writing itself.
Did I miss a press release? They can't do fantasies? :huh1:
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CarlD2
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fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
Will comes across as very asexual to me. It's another way he reminds me of Sami (along with the tantrums). I'd rather they not focus that much on his love life, because they probably aren't going to show much anyway (how many gay men do you see on TV...the closest NBC soaps got was the Passions mess where Vincent and Chad looked constipated and then Chad was murdered), and because I think he would have the same neutered melodramatic reaction to it that he has to everything.

If he did get with Sonny, it would be like dating a cardboard cutout, as Sonny has no personality to speak of. I can see Will eventually dating him, then having a scandalous hug with another man, telling Sami it's all her fault, and Sonny vanishes into wherever Justin and Adrienne fight their way out of every few months.
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Ellie


fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:48 PM
Did I miss a press release? They can't do fantasies? :huh1:
I was just reiterating Lysie's point, which was that any gay sexual moment is most likely going to happen first 'for real', probably with an accompanying TV Guide article, some interviews, etc. I don't think they'd just slip in a fantasy before they do a 'real' scene. I mean, the Austin/Abigail fantasy kiss is causing a huge reaction, and that's just because of the age difference.
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cyndabell


I can see why the "Is Will really gay" issue creates doubt. They keep insinuating Sami into the story when she doesn't need to be. The episode where Will is at the pub hanging out with Sonny and friends, then he goes home to mom's and Rafe's place, he stares at a picture of him and Sami, then walks over to the mirror and spits. Couldn't all of this been done without him looking at the picture of him and Sami? Based on that scene, it could be said that he hates himself because he's Sami's son and blames her for being "responsible" for why he feels confused about being a gay guy. If only Sami wasn't continuosly emphasized.........................................
Edited by cyndabell, Jan 25 2012, 11:59 PM.
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Ellie


cyndabell
Jan 25 2012, 11:54 PM
I can see why the "Is Will really gay" issue creates doubt. They keep insinuating Sami into the story when she doesn't need to be. The episode where Will is at the pub hanging out with Sonny and friends, then he goes home to mom's and Rafe's place, he stares at a picture of him and Sami, then walks over to the mirror and spits. Couldn't all of this been done without him looking at the picture of him and Sami? Based on that scene, it could be said that he hates himself because he's Sami's son and blames her for being "responsible" for why he feels confused about being a gay guy. If only Sami weren't continuosly emphasized.........................................
I disagree - I think they're making it quite clear even without that particular scene. But, I like the whole family drama aspect. I think it just creates more issues for Will, and it makes this less of an afterschool special type of story and more of a regular (for Salem) drama.
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lysie


cyndabell
Jan 25 2012, 11:54 PM
I can see why the "Is Will really gay" issue creates doubt. They keep insinuating Sami into the story when she doesn't need to be. The episode where Will is at the pub hanging out with Sonny and friends, then he goes home to mom's and Rafe's place, he stares at a picture of him and Sami, then walks over to the mirror and spits. Couldn't all of this been done without him looking at the picture of him and Sami? Based on that scene, it could be said that he hates himself because he's Sami's son and blames her for being "responsible" for why he feels confused about being a gay guy. If only Sami wasn't continuosly emphasized.........................................
Based on that one scene alone, maybe. Fortunately this story has been more than one scene. While I would love for them not to use Sami for anything ever again, it just so happens that she's relevant to this story. IMO, while this story isn't great, it's the only story where they're taking the time to hit every beat.
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CarlD2
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I like the idea of using history to enhance story, but Will's story seems like grafted history. He has to be the new Sami. Sami has to be the new Marlena, even though I don't believe that his relationship with Sami would make him flip out the way Sami did over Marlena/John. I also think whipping up the dead child story to justify what Sami/EJ did muddies the waters to make Will's breakdown seem even more odd.

They didn't really define Will's character before he became the new Sami. If not for the involvement of Sami, Nicole, EJ, Marlena, I'm not even sure if fans would care about Will. He's mostly just another of the overdramatic and strangely vacant teens - the only difference with Will and Chad/Gabi/Melanie/Abby is that Will's story affects important characters.
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Ellie


CarlD2
Jan 26 2012, 12:20 AM
I like the idea of using history to enhance story, but Will's story seems like grafted history. He has to be the new Sami. Sami has to be the new Marlena, even though I don't believe that his relationship with Sami would make him flip out the way Sami did over Marlena/John. I also think whipping up the dead child story to justify what Sami/EJ did muddies the waters to make Will's breakdown seem even more odd.

They didn't really define Will's character before he became the new Sami. If not for the involvement of Sami, Nicole, EJ, Marlena, I'm not even sure if fans would care about Will. He's mostly just another of the overdramatic and strangely vacant teens - the only difference with Will and Chad/Gabi/Melanie/Abby is that Will's story affects important characters.
I disagree with most of this. For starters, Will is one of the most connected and 'legacy' characters on the canvas, and he is a teen. He (the character) was off for about 2 years, but aside from that he's been on since birth, and he was played by the same twins to start off for much much longer than most kids. So I don't see the argument at all that he's a throwaway character who doesn't deserve this story. Chandler Massey has done an excellent job developing the character. I do think that the transition between Dylan Patton and Chandler was a bit bumpy; this doesn't seem like the same Will who had anything at all to do with Mia and that whole episode.

As for history, I agree that his reaction should be different than Sami's was, but to my pleasant surprise, it is. He's going to the 'dark side' because EJ is bribing him, not because he feels like lashing out, though he enjoys that aspect where Sami's concerned. As for the dead child, though I didn't like that as a plot device AT ALL, I do see how it's making Will even more emotionally troubled.

The part I agree with in your post is about Sami being the new Marlena. That was more of a Hogan and Dena thing, but even now they're trying to do it physically. Won't ever work.
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DrewHamilton
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The last thing I need to tell me Will is gay is fantasies about EJ or any other guy. The way the writers are writing this is wonderful. No one has to come right out and say it, but the feeling is there and it's very obvious.
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