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Wednesday , January 25th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Jan 24 2012, 02:44 PM (7,569 Views)
CarlD2
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Ellie
Jan 26 2012, 12:38 AM
CarlD2
Jan 26 2012, 12:20 AM
I like the idea of using history to enhance story, but Will's story seems like grafted history. He has to be the new Sami. Sami has to be the new Marlena, even though I don't believe that his relationship with Sami would make him flip out the way Sami did over Marlena/John. I also think whipping up the dead child story to justify what Sami/EJ did muddies the waters to make Will's breakdown seem even more odd.

They didn't really define Will's character before he became the new Sami. If not for the involvement of Sami, Nicole, EJ, Marlena, I'm not even sure if fans would care about Will. He's mostly just another of the overdramatic and strangely vacant teens - the only difference with Will and Chad/Gabi/Melanie/Abby is that Will's story affects important characters.
I disagree with most of this. For starters, Will is one of the most connected and 'legacy' characters on the canvas, and he is a teen. He (the character) was off for about 2 years, but aside from that he's been on since birth, and he was played by the same twins to start off for much much longer than most kids. So I don't see the argument at all that he's a throwaway character who doesn't deserve this story. Chandler Massey has done an excellent job developing the character. I do think that the transition between Dylan Patton and Chandler was a bit bumpy; this doesn't seem like the same Will who had anything at all to do with Mia and that whole episode.

As for history, I agree that his reaction should be different than Sami's was, but to my pleasant surprise, it is. He's going to the 'dark side' because EJ is bribing him, not because he feels like lashing out, though he enjoys that aspect where Sami's concerned. As for the dead child, though I didn't like that as a plot device AT ALL, I do see how it's making Will even more emotionally troubled.

The part I agree with in your post is about Sami being the new Marlena. That was more of a Hogan and Dena thing, but even now they're trying to do it physically. Won't ever work.
I think the problem with 'legacy' characters is that their being around a long time just gives the show more of a reason to not bother defining them. For instance, Belle and Shawn - other than Shawn being a hothead, Belle wanting to be good, Belle and Shawn always finding their way back to each other, they seemed to have no real personality. I don't see any real personality with Will either, it's mostly just what suits the story. Overnight, he began screaming and crying. Is it because he's gay? Is it because he saw Sami and EJ and this shattered this dream family? If we have to guess at this and it comes solely because of plot points, then I think the characterization fails.

Will was on the dark side even before EJ got involved. He was destroying kitchens, ruining family dinners, screaming and yelling and all the rest. I just struggle to believe it. I feel like they are so in love with the idea of "irony" with Marlena/Sami/Will that they put the Will character into overextended cliches and also into material which Chandler Massey struggles with. It just looks like an actor trying to cry or trying to be sullen (in my opinion).

I see more interest in Will ruining Sami's life or Will having an affair with EJ than I see in Will as a character. When those stories don't happen, what's left for him? What reason is there to care about Will? If the most they can do is angst with non-existent Sonny or the guy from Queer Eye then I think they need to just move away from the self-loathing gay story and focus on something else.
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PhoenixRising05
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I liked the photo shoot. I thought it was very well-done. I was impressed how good it was given Days' budget. CB and CD looked amazing. Clearly, they were going for a "Twilight" sort of look but it's current so it works.

I enjoyed the rest of the episode too. Again, as has been the case all week, I've finally feeling some sort of direction at work within the stories. Things are moving and building to a boiling point. It's been a slow and steady climb this month but I feel like the show is finally getting somewhere. I just hope this can continue to occur consistently.
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annie21


Dreamer
Jan 25 2012, 02:06 PM
olddaysfan
Jan 25 2012, 12:41 PM

My apologies because this is slightly off topic, but I had the same question regarding Abigail and financial aid/work study programs. I should be as poor as the Devereauxs and still receive financial aid for my children to go to school. Soaps were traditionally centered around wealthier families. Why is everyone so destitute all of a sudden?
It has been mentioned that both Jack and Jennifer have no money. Not in the same epi or anything, just part of their storyline stuff. Jack and Jen were broke years ago. Jack doen't have his Deveraux fortune. I guess they never made huge $$ doing regular jobs, so with Jack out of work for a year, and Jennifer leaving her job behind when coming back to Salem, we can see that Abi has no access to family money. I guess Jen could ask her Dad, but is probably embarassed to ask for more handouts. Bill gave them a JnJ house in the early years of their marraige, and when coming back from Africa, Jen rented a house I believe ( she had a job, editor of the spectator). JnJ are regular folk these days, long gone are the days of Sheldon and Jack's limo.

I don't blame olddaysfan for being confused. Yes, the show is portraying the Deverauxs as having no money, but the picture is far from consistent and there are several unanswered questions.

In the first place, it was never explained how Jack left things at the Spectator's London office before he went off on this secret assignment. Yes, he told Jennifer that he was going on a walkabout, but if he was on an undercover story, wouldn't he have still been employed by the newspaper? Was he using annual leave or vacation time? Or did he go to the full extent of actually quitting his job just to take on an assignment that was supposed to only last a few weeks? Doesn't make sense. His paychecks should still have been coming in -- at least until he was kidnapped and stopped communicating with his employers.

And there are more questions. For example, if he were actually employed at the Spectator up until the time that he was kidnapped, then why didn't his colleagues put up some red flags when he went missing? Maybe his so-called "friend" had them fooled, too. But it's still fuzzy -- why would Jack have asked his friend/contact to lie to his employers, too?

Many of us have argued that Jennifer should have been more curious about Jack's true whereabouts. One very simple thing she could have done was check with somebody in the London office payroll department to see what was happening to Jack's paychecks and ask when did they stop being processed and why. She could also have verified whether his credit cards were being used or whether there had been any wire transfers out of his account. Even if her husband was really in the wilderness, he still would have needed food and supplies, which means he would have left some kind of money trail in today's modern world.

Back to their current finances. As for the last year, yes, Jack didn't have a job -- but he also had ZERO expenses. So he still should have some money in savings. Were those funds somehow exhausted while he was gone? Where was that money going? Did Jennifer withdraw it in order to pay for JJ's expensive private boarding school that she left him in prior to quitting her own job to come home to Salem without him?

Oh, and Jennifer has had no house payments for a year, so her expenses have been minimal. Of course, maybe she dropped her health insurance when she quit her job and so now she's having to pay the full cost of that heart operation.

All I'm saying is that the Deveraux finances are a mixed bag. On the one hand, they both seem to be broke. On the other, they've got a child in a European boarding school (who just spent his winter vacation skiing in the Alps) and they've got Jack (apparently) staying at a hotel, jetting off to London for a week to visit his son (thank goodness), and buying open-ended tickets to Hawaii for a family of four.







Edited by annie21, Jan 26 2012, 01:40 AM.
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Ellie


CarlD2
Jan 26 2012, 01:15 AM
I think the problem with 'legacy' characters is that their being around a long time just gives the show more of a reason to not bother defining them. For instance, Belle and Shawn - other than Shawn being a hothead, Belle wanting to be good, Belle and Shawn always finding their way back to each other, they seemed to have no real personality. I don't see any real personality with Will either, it's mostly just what suits the story. Overnight, he began screaming and crying. Is it because he's gay? Is it because he saw Sami and EJ and this shattered this dream family? If we have to guess at this and it comes solely because of plot points, then I think the characterization fails.

We're just going to have to disagree on that... I see the issues with Belle and Shawn coming from the fact that Storms/Cook played them SO differently than Madison/Beemer. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they're J&M and Bope's kids. Hope is a legacy character yet she certainly has distinctive character traits, and that's because Kristian has done a good job at maintaining those.

Quote:
 
Will was on the dark side even before EJ got involved. He was destroying kitchens, ruining family dinners, screaming and yelling and all the rest. I just struggle to believe it. I feel like they are so in love with the idea of "irony" with Marlena/Sami/Will that they put the Will character into overextended cliches and also into material which Chandler Massey struggles with. It just looks like an actor trying to cry or trying to be sullen (in my opinion).
Couldn't disagree more about Chandler - I think he's so talented and he's cried more real tears than his "mother" has in her entire tenure on the show. As for the 'dark side', he trashed Maggie's kitchen spontaneously because he was so upset. Didn't you ever throw something in anger as a teen? It's that type of thing. Sami, on the other hand, maliciously committed a crime and changed blood test results of her mother's pregnancy. I don't see those two things as similar in the slightest.

Quote:
 
I see more interest in Will ruining Sami's life or Will having an affair with EJ than I see in Will as a character. When those stories don't happen, what's left for him? What reason is there to care about Will? If the most they can do is angst with non-existent Sonny or the guy from Queer Eye then I think they need to just move away from the self-loathing gay story and focus on something else.
When the story's over, he'll be a gay teen on the show in need of a new story, just the same as when any relationship story on Days ends. I care about his character pretty much more than any other now except Marlena. I want to know what happens to him each day, and if the writing stays consistent (always doubtful), that won't change when this phase of his life is over.
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Paxton
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annie21
Jan 26 2012, 01:33 AM
Oh, and Jennifer has had no house payments for a year, so her expenses have been minimal. Of course, maybe she dropped her health insurance when she quit her job and so now she's having to pay the full cost of that heart operation.
I think the idea of Dr. Dan charging Jennifer for replacing her heart may be the funniest thing I've read on this board in ages. Too bad that wasn't part of their tearful farewell--Dan saying that even though he had considerably slashed his fees, now that he can't practice any more he's going to have to charge Jennifer the full cost. More of that real life drama MarDar are all about!

Great posts, Ellie. I don't have time to post more, but I really don't understand the idea that Will is only interesting if he has a story. I mean . . . right? Every character needs stories to be interesting. Theoretically, I could even be interested in Roman if he had a good story. The stories are what define these fictional characters' personalities. I might not have cared much or at all about Will before, but I care about him NOW.
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peaches179
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Ellie
Jan 26 2012, 08:17 AM
CarlD2
Jan 26 2012, 01:15 AM
I think the problem with 'legacy' characters is that their being around a long time just gives the show more of a reason to not bother defining them. For instance, Belle and Shawn - other than Shawn being a hothead, Belle wanting to be good, Belle and Shawn always finding their way back to each other, they seemed to have no real personality. I don't see any real personality with Will either, it's mostly just what suits the story. Overnight, he began screaming and crying. Is it because he's gay? Is it because he saw Sami and EJ and this shattered this dream family? If we have to guess at this and it comes solely because of plot points, then I think the characterization fails.

We're just going to have to disagree on that... I see the issues with Belle and Shawn coming from the fact that Storms/Cook played them SO differently than Madison/Beemer. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they're J&M and Bope's kids. Hope is a legacy character yet she certainly has distinctive character traits, and that's because Kristian has done a good job at maintaining those.

Quote:
 
Will was on the dark side even before EJ got involved. He was destroying kitchens, ruining family dinners, screaming and yelling and all the rest. I just struggle to believe it. I feel like they are so in love with the idea of "irony" with Marlena/Sami/Will that they put the Will character into overextended cliches and also into material which Chandler Massey struggles with. It just looks like an actor trying to cry or trying to be sullen (in my opinion).
Couldn't disagree more about Chandler - I think he's so talented and he's cried more real tears than his "mother" has in her entire tenure on the show. As for the 'dark side', he trashed Maggie's kitchen spontaneously because he was so upset. Didn't you ever throw something in anger as a teen? It's that type of thing. Sami, on the other hand, maliciously committed a crime and changed blood test results of her mother's pregnancy. I don't see those two things as similar in the slightest.

Quote:
 
I see more interest in Will ruining Sami's life or Will having an affair with EJ than I see in Will as a character. When those stories don't happen, what's left for him? What reason is there to care about Will? If the most they can do is angst with non-existent Sonny or the guy from Queer Eye then I think they need to just move away from the self-loathing gay story and focus on something else.
When the story's over, he'll be a gay teen on the show in need of a new story, just the same as when any relationship story on Days ends. I care about his character pretty much more than any other now except Marlena. I want to know what happens to him each day, and if the writing stays consistent (always doubtful), that won't change when this phase of his life is over.

ICAM!
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Marlene


Dreamer
Jan 25 2012, 02:17 PM
olddaysfan
Jan 25 2012, 02:12 PM
Dreamer
Jan 25 2012, 02:06 PM
olddaysfan
Jan 25 2012, 12:41 PM

My apologies because this is slightly off topic, but I had the same question regarding Abigail and financial aid/work study programs. I should be as poor as the Devereauxs and still receive financial aid for my children to go to school. Soaps were traditionally centered around wealthier families. Why is everyone so destitute all of a sudden?
It has been mentioned that both Jack and Jennifer have no money. Not in the same epi or anything, just part of their storyline stuff. Jack and Jen were broke years ago. Jack doen't have his Deveraux fortune. I guess they never made huge $$ doing regular jobs, so with Jack out of work for a year, and Jennifer leaving her job behind when coming back to Salem, we can see that Abi has no access to family money. I guess Jen could ask her Dad, but is probably embarassed to ask for more handouts. Bill gave them a JnJ house in the early years of their marraige, and when coming back from Africa, Jen rented a house I believe ( she had a job, editor of the spectator). JnJ are regular folk these days, long are the days of Sheldon and Jack's limo.



Thanks, Dreamer, I stand corrected. Obviously, too, with all the Alice secrets, she left no money to her grandchildren. LOL.
Seems like Alice, left them just the family house and funds to build HTS.


Touche'
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Marlene


Angie79
Jan 25 2012, 02:19 PM
Matt
Jan 25 2012, 02:13 PM
So Marlena insists that she had a toy as a girl where you baked cakes in a pretend oven with a light blub... Um, I don't think so. The Easy Bake Oven didn't come out until 1963. If you want me to believe that Marlena was a little girl in 1963, I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell you. An Easy Bake Stone Hearth, MAYBE...?

That's not really that far off. They can pass her off as late 50's easily.


But seriously, if Sami was 16 when Will was born, then she's about 35 now. We know Marlena was an established psychiatrist when she came to Salem (1976) to help Mickey, so she had to be over 25. Roman wasn't introduced until the early 80s, making her at least 30. So if you go my that, Marlena is older than Deidre.

ETA: After I posted this, I went back and read the rest of the thread. My apologies to Matt and others who posted essentially the same thing before me.
Edited by Marlene, Jan 26 2012, 10:55 AM.
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Ellie


olddaysfan
Jan 26 2012, 10:24 AM
Angie79
Jan 25 2012, 02:19 PM
Matt
Jan 25 2012, 02:13 PM
So Marlena insists that she had a toy as a girl where you baked cakes in a pretend oven with a light blub... Um, I don't think so. The Easy Bake Oven didn't come out until 1963. If you want me to believe that Marlena was a little girl in 1963, I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell you. An Easy Bake Stone Hearth, MAYBE...?

That's not really that far off. They can pass her off as late 50's easily.


But seriously, if Sami was 16 when Will was born, then she's about 35 now. We know Marlena was an established psychiatrist when she came to Salem (1976) to help Mickey, so she had to be over 25. Roman wasn't introduced until the early 80s, making her at least 30. So if you go my that, Marlena is older than Deidre.
You can't add kids ages to get the age of the parents when SORASing is involved. If Claire is now around 7 and Belle is in her 30's then Marlena would be 70. Hope would have been over 50 when she had Ciara if Shawn D was 30-ish. It just doesn't work.
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Lil
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Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I agree with this. I think what is making this so compelling for me is that he is still confused or at this point I think a bit in denial about it. He's sort of testing the waters with Sonny & his friends but also he is holding himself back. Everyone handles matters of their sexuality differently and I like that (unlike most other s/l's right now) I actually SEE Will struggling with it and feeling unsure of his sexuality and himself. it's not uncommon for peopel close to you to sort of figure something lie that out about you before you full allow yourself to realize it. Yeah, a fantasy would give some shock value, but I don't think Will's sexuality has been made that clear yet. and a fantasy liek that right now would sort of ruin it (for me anyway). I think there's enough sleaze for sleaze's sake going on with other characters. And I liek the tension between EJ & Will but I really don't see Will fantasizing about him. there's still a lot about EJ that Will absolutely despises.
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Lil
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fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:41 PM
lysie
Jan 25 2012, 10:38 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I don't think they're going to play their gay hand (that's a weird phrase) on a fantasy this early in. If the show ever does a gay love scene, they'll want it to be a big deal, and it won't be if they've already done all of the risky stuff before the guy even comes out. Jacking off to any kind of sex fantasy would happen in real life to a kid this age, but they don't play things that way for the straight people either.
Your point is well taken about jacking off, but what about Sonny? Bradison have sex non-stop and it's disgusting! And I'm supposed to believe Sonny's celibate? Not likely! These are the most chaste gay guys I've ever known! :laugh:
hahahaha They are pretty chaste for gay guys. All my gay friends were or are pretty damned promiscuous. I would not be opposed to Sonny sharing a kiss or at least some more flirty banter with someone at all. I think that would rock, actually, because I really like Sonny's character and I really want to know more about him rather than have him sitting behind a laptop all the time.
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Lil
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lysie
Jan 26 2012, 12:06 AM
cyndabell
Jan 25 2012, 11:54 PM
I can see why the "Is Will really gay" issue creates doubt. They keep insinuating Sami into the story when she doesn't need to be. The episode where Will is at the pub hanging out with Sonny and friends, then he goes home to mom's and Rafe's place, he stares at a picture of him and Sami, then walks over to the mirror and spits. Couldn't all of this been done without him looking at the picture of him and Sami? Based on that scene, it could be said that he hates himself because he's Sami's son and blames her for being "responsible" for why he feels confused about being a gay guy. If only Sami wasn't continuosly emphasized.........................................
Based on that one scene alone, maybe. Fortunately this story has been more than one scene. While I would love for them not to use Sami for anything ever again, it just so happens that she's relevant to this story. IMO, while this story isn't great, it's the only story where they're taking the time to hit every beat.
cheers
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Lil
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Ellie
Jan 26 2012, 08:17 AM
CarlD2
Jan 26 2012, 01:15 AM
I think the problem with 'legacy' characters is that their being around a long time just gives the show more of a reason to not bother defining them. For instance, Belle and Shawn - other than Shawn being a hothead, Belle wanting to be good, Belle and Shawn always finding their way back to each other, they seemed to have no real personality. I don't see any real personality with Will either, it's mostly just what suits the story. Overnight, he began screaming and crying. Is it because he's gay? Is it because he saw Sami and EJ and this shattered this dream family? If we have to guess at this and it comes solely because of plot points, then I think the characterization fails.

We're just going to have to disagree on that... I see the issues with Belle and Shawn coming from the fact that Storms/Cook played them SO differently than Madison/Beemer. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they're J&M and Bope's kids. Hope is a legacy character yet she certainly has distinctive character traits, and that's because Kristian has done a good job at maintaining those.

Quote:
 
Will was on the dark side even before EJ got involved. He was destroying kitchens, ruining family dinners, screaming and yelling and all the rest. I just struggle to believe it. I feel like they are so in love with the idea of "irony" with Marlena/Sami/Will that they put the Will character into overextended cliches and also into material which Chandler Massey struggles with. It just looks like an actor trying to cry or trying to be sullen (in my opinion).
Couldn't disagree more about Chandler - I think he's so talented and he's cried more real tears than his "mother" has in her entire tenure on the show. As for the 'dark side', he trashed Maggie's kitchen spontaneously because he was so upset. Didn't you ever throw something in anger as a teen? It's that type of thing. Sami, on the other hand, maliciously committed a crime and changed blood test results of her mother's pregnancy. I don't see those two things as similar in the slightest.

Quote:
 
I see more interest in Will ruining Sami's life or Will having an affair with EJ than I see in Will as a character. When those stories don't happen, what's left for him? What reason is there to care about Will? If the most they can do is angst with non-existent Sonny or the guy from Queer Eye then I think they need to just move away from the self-loathing gay story and focus on something else.
When the story's over, he'll be a gay teen on the show in need of a new story, just the same as when any relationship story on Days ends. I care about his character pretty much more than any other now except Marlena. I want to know what happens to him each day, and if the writing stays consistent (always doubtful), that won't change when this phase of his life is over.
Fully with you on this. I think Chandler Massey has been incredible. Loving him.
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CarlD2
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Ellie
Jan 26 2012, 08:17 AM
We're just going to have to disagree on that... I see the issues with Belle and Shawn coming from the fact that Storms/Cook played them SO differently than Madison/Beemer. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they're J&M and Bope's kids. Hope is a legacy character yet she certainly has distinctive character traits, and that's because Kristian has done a good job at maintaining those.

Couldn't disagree more about Chandler - I think he's so talented and he's cried more real tears than his "mother" has in her entire tenure on the show. As for the 'dark side', he trashed Maggie's kitchen spontaneously because he was so upset. Didn't you ever throw something in anger as a teen? It's that type of thing. Sami, on the other hand, maliciously committed a crime and changed blood test results of her mother's pregnancy. I don't see those two things as similar in the slightest.
Doug and Julie left the show as permanent characters relatively early in KA's tenure as Hope, so while she did still have focus as a Horton (due to Tom and Alice), she was much more defined by the relationship with Bo. I think in the supercouple era they worked harder to set up strong personality traits for the characters - maybe those traits were a little one-note, but they made the characters clearly identifiable. You knew Hope and how she would react.

I don't get that with Will. I have no idea what he is supposed to be. I could agree that Will destroying the kitchen was supposed to be just a typical teen lashing out, but the way the scene was done, with dramatic music and all the rest, seemed like some dark moment. They have driven the parallels of Will and Sami so much that I am not sure if we're supposed to see him as toxic or as extremely disturbed, the way Sami was, and if we're supposed to know if this is because of Sami or because he's gay. I just don't feel like what Will saw would make him melt down the way he has, and since the gay story has been so stalled out I don't really believe that either - it comes across to me as Will hates being gay because that's what makes more drama. The most attention this gets, aside from the outside reactions of Marlena or EJ, is when Will has to deal with PSAs like Sonny and friends.

I just feel like Will does what the plot wants, and that plot is mostly about what drives story for EJ and Sami. I don't think a character has been built up for him, and as a result, with scenes like Will angrily confronting Sami or EJ, I end up seeing an actor struggling to make "angry" or "hurt" faces. Chandler's a good young actor but I don't really buy these moments - they remind me of a parody, in some way.

I guess I'm hard on this story because I want to like it a lot more than I do and I feel like I'm just lacking the history to care. If I'd been watching for a longer period of time, back to when Sami was in his shoes, maybe I'd be more involved.
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The Room Stops
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I think part of the fun is actually that Will hasn't been very defined. Because that's part of the process. I mean, nobody really knows who they are when they're 14, 15 or 16. You change by the choices you make because of the people you're around, and you start to find out because of how you react. Will's had the childhood that he had, of course he's confused. I love that Marlena knows though, and that Sonny sees it so clearly. But they're not pushing, they're letting him find out on his own, with laying the groundwork of "Whatever you tell me, I'm here."
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CarlD2
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Paxton
Jan 26 2012, 08:40 AM

Great posts, Ellie. I don't have time to post more, but I really don't understand the idea that Will is only interesting if he has a story. I mean . . . right? Every character needs stories to be interesting. Theoretically, I could even be interested in Roman if he had a good story. The stories are what define these fictional characters' personalities. I might not have cared much or at all about Will before, but I care about him NOW.
I think the best part of a soap is that a character drives a story. A character can communicate something in one glance and viewers will know, based on history. I think soaps should build characters up and then tell the story.

I think the most interesting part of Will's story is about EJ, Marlena, and Sami, which means once he is not defined by them, what is he? Is he just like Chad, Gabi, Melanie, and Abby - all these meandering sort of bland characters who rotate around each other. That's why I wish they'd done more to build up his friendships (which mostly seem to be gone now) or to build up Sonny's character, because there's just no real depth in any of that side of Will's story, for me.
Edited by CarlD2, Jan 26 2012, 12:15 PM.
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cyndabell


fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I'm inclined to agree with this (well, not the jacking off part because we clearly won't be seeing any of that). But I've wondered since the very beginning why they would never give us any indication that Will secretly had a thing for guys. That's never happened! People are talking about subtlety which is fine for a while, but I think now is the time to step it up a bit more by SHOWING us why Will is conflicted and why he would suddenly be so turned off by a beautiful exotic-looking young woman like Gabi. Nothing wrong with showing us something more at this point of the story. And yes, I'm totally up for some Will gay fantasies for the simple reason that it adds even more of a naughty element to Will and this storyline. I'm becoming a bit bored with just watching Will act like a downer almost everytime he's on. His scenes with EJ makes things a little better but I still want to see Will himself having naughty thoughts about men. :spank:
Edited by cyndabell, Jan 26 2012, 01:06 PM.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

While I agree they've been painfully slow in showing Will having any sort of fantasy or romantic interaction with a male - I believe it was spoiled that Will will be spotted kissing someone at HTS sometime in February so it should be around the corner.
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cyndabell


SocRMum1
Jan 26 2012, 01:05 PM
While I agree they've been painfully slow in showing Will having any sort of fantasy or romantic interaction with a male - I believe it was spoiled that Will will be spotted kissing someone at HTS sometime in February so it should be around the corner.
Perhaps, but spoilers have been terribly inaccurate and misleading lately that I don't know if I can believe them anymore! We'll have to wait and see on this one.
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cyndabell
Jan 26 2012, 12:55 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:32 PM
Ellie
Jan 25 2012, 10:29 PM
fritosguy
Jan 25 2012, 10:23 PM
Here's my problem: NOTHING indicates that Will is gay. We've seen no proof of it. I'm wondering if he even is!
We NEED to see fantasy scenes of him making out or having sex with EJ, his "master," to prove it in the viewers' minds, that this is really where they're going with the story. It would satisfy the fans who want EJill, even if it were just in fantasy sequences, and it would help raise the ratings due to shock. But more important, it would put the final nail in the heterosexuality coffin.
I hope you're joking. But seriously, the point of the story is that HE is conflicted. We can tell Marlena thinks he is, we can tell Sonny thinks he is, we can tell EJ thinks he is. But Will doesn't know if Will is, and there's part of the depth and angst of the story.
I'm not joking, Ellie. Isn't it reasonable that -- in real life -- there would be jacking off to same sex fantasies? We can't go that far, of course, in daytime, but we have to see some proof that there's not just "conflict," but what the "conflict" is about. I agree that Marlena sees it. I agree that EJ sees it. I don't personally see it myself, though. I need more to go on. (In the same way that I need to see Sonny having SEX.)
I'm inclined to agree with this (well, not the jacking off part because we clearly won't be seeing any of that). But I've wondered since the very beginning why they would never give us any indication that Will secretly had a thing for guys. That's never happened! People are talking about subtlety which is fine for a while, but I think now is the time to step it up a bit more by SHOWING us why Will is conflicted and why he would suddenly be so turned off by a beautiful exotic-looking young woman like Gabi. Nothing wrong with showing us something more at this point of the story. And yes, I'm totally up for some Will gay fantasies for the simple reason that it adds even more of a naughty element to Will and this storyline. I'm becoming a bit bored with just watching Will act like a downer almost everytime he's on. His scenes with EJ makes things a little better but I still want to see Will himself having naughty thoughts about men. :spank:
I'm with Ellie. The conflict and emotion in the story is we see Will struggling to figure out who he is. In my opinion, this isn't even a case where Will knows he's gay and is just hiding it from everybody else. At this point, he's still hiding it from himself to at least some degree. I think Chandler has done a good job of showing that kind of confusion. Having Will have sexual fantasies about another man at this point wouldn't fit where there character is emotionally at this point. It would fit if he were just "in the closet" but he's not.

I think he knows that he didn't feel what he was supposed to feel for Gabi and the implications of what that means scares him to death. I think part of why Will is acting/reacting the way he is is that he wants to blame his mother for the way he feels (i.e. messed up) right now. If he can convince himself that he's all messed up because of her, then he doesn't have to face the thing that is truly scaring him.

I've given Days a lot of flack about a lot of things, but I think they've actually handled the storyline with Will quite well. I'm glad they haven't gone the route of him just figuring it out overnight. I'm glad they've shown how difficult the struggle can be internally. And Chandler Massey is playing the hell out of it.
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