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Spoilers for the week of June 25th; *updated 6/19*
Topic Started: Jun 14 2012, 05:36 PM (77,610 Views)
lysie


Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
It is. Not because it's ejami. It's contrived every time they use the kids this way. It used to drive me crazy with Shawn D. Teenage Belle was bad about it too. Will was awul about it. Real kids would be yelling "ewwww."
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Helpless Romantic


Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I think MarDar thought they were pretty clever in recreating Lumi with EJAMI. Epic faIL They did the dance that Will saw FIRST!
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Jun 20 2012, 12:43 PM.
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Aliaron
Member Avatar


six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM
Ej_Sami
Jun 20 2012, 12:16 PM
I just don't see how MarDar were writing for ejami. They started the reboot off with bringing back the vets and ejami sex. After the ejami sex EJ and Sami hardly EVER interacted. It wasn't until the share that wine scene that they started to become amicable towards one another. MarDar wrote Nicole pregnant and brought back Lucas making me believe that they were going for ejole and Lumi. Something happen(behind the scenes) and I don't know what and now ejami are being friendlier and Im liking it more and more. IMO MarDar were not writing for ejami
Did you miss their interview last year? They even hinted that they might be heading back there. And considering they thought up the beastsex this makes me think heading back to Ejami was their plan all along.
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
There is no such thing as a good scenes where the characters are written out of character.
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LuvingLumi
Member Avatar
Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

lysie
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
It is. Not because it's ejami. It's contrived every time they use the kids this way. It used to drive me crazy with Shawn D. Teenage Belle was bad about it too. Will was awul about it. Real kids would be yelling "ewwww."
Hey...Will left....he actually was the one who acted as a kid would.....

'I'm so outta here'

Edited by LuvingLumi, Jun 20 2012, 12:48 PM.
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six
Member Avatar


Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I thought the 'wow' was for calling Johnny 'One eye'd Willy.'

LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM
Ej_Sami
Jun 20 2012, 12:16 PM
I just don't see how MarDar were writing for ejami. They started the reboot off with bringing back the vets and ejami sex. After the ejami sex EJ and Sami hardly EVER interacted. It wasn't until the share that wine scene that they started to become amicable towards one another. MarDar wrote Nicole pregnant and brought back Lucas making me believe that they were going for ejole and Lumi. Something happen(behind the scenes) and I don't know what and now ejami are being friendlier and Im liking it more and more. IMO MarDar were not writing for ejami
Did you miss their interview last year? They even hinted that they might be heading back there. And considering they thought up the beastsex this makes me think heading back to Ejami was their plan all along.
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
you don't think that throwing Ej and Sami into grunt fuck mode about one month after their scenes started filming was not MarDar's idea of writing for Ejami in some form or fashion?
Not in the sense that Hopeless Dreamer has been arguing, no.

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EJ_SamiFF
Member Avatar


Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I took the WOW as being appal at the "one eye willy" comment
Edited by EJ_SamiFF, Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM.
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six
Member Avatar


Aliaron
Jun 20 2012, 12:42 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM
Ej_Sami
Jun 20 2012, 12:16 PM
I just don't see how MarDar were writing for ejami. They started the reboot off with bringing back the vets and ejami sex. After the ejami sex EJ and Sami hardly EVER interacted. It wasn't until the share that wine scene that they started to become amicable towards one another. MarDar wrote Nicole pregnant and brought back Lucas making me believe that they were going for ejole and Lumi. Something happen(behind the scenes) and I don't know what and now ejami are being friendlier and Im liking it more and more. IMO MarDar were not writing for ejami
Did you miss their interview last year? They even hinted that they might be heading back there. And considering they thought up the beastsex this makes me think heading back to Ejami was their plan all along.
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
There is no such thing as a good scenes where the characters are written out of character.
1. A scene does not have to be in character to be entertaining in and of itself. 2. There is no objective standard for whether or not something is in or out of character.
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Helpless Romantic


six
Jun 20 2012, 12:44 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I thought the 'wow' was for calling Johnny 'One eye'd Willy.'

LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
you don't think that throwing Ej and Sami into grunt fuck mode about one month after their scenes started filming was not MarDar's idea of writing for Ejami in some form or fashion?
Not in the sense that Hopeless Dreamer has been arguing, no.

I disagree EJAMI and CAFE were getting the slow build up under MarDar with the friendship and the late night talks and other contrived tension so Sami gawks at him :eyeroll: Plumbing explosion anyone? Wine sipping anyone? Ice cube tension for CAFE and the Caustin baby anyone? Lucas Nicole and Austin were eventually going to be thrown to the wolves IMO and were barely seen SAFE completely erased like they meant NOTHING to each other and LUMI didn't even get a love scene on screen while the grunt fuck and eventual other love scene because I maintain they were going to have her cheat again was going to be shown. The spoiler"Do you think we could ever be happy if we stop trying to kill each other"? Sami saying "it was NEVER going to happen". Means it was and thats exactly where MarDar were going. No one is going to convince me otherwise and I'm not even an EJAMI fan.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Jun 20 2012, 01:07 PM.
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Lil
Member Avatar


lysie
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
It is. Not because it's ejami. It's contrived every time they use the kids this way. It used to drive me crazy with Shawn D. Teenage Belle was bad about it too. Will was awul about it. Real kids would be yelling "ewwww."
Shawn D was the worst!!!!!!!!
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LuvingLumi
Member Avatar
Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

six
Jun 20 2012, 12:44 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I thought the 'wow' was for calling Johnny 'One eye'd Willy.'

LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
you don't think that throwing Ej and Sami into grunt fuck mode about one month after their scenes started filming was not MarDar's idea of writing for Ejami in some form or fashion?
Not in the sense that Hopeless Dreamer has been arguing, no.

Well at the very least it must have been one of the very first major turning point moments they pitched. Sami could have screwed Austin, but it wasn't Austin she was cheating on her hubby with, it was EJ.
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LuvingLumi
Member Avatar
Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

Ej_Sami
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I took the WOW as being appal at the "one eye willy" comment
But the kid does have a fake eye....lol..can't deny that one
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Ej_Sami
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 10:31 AM
One eyed Willy wanting his parents to dance at a funeral. Doesn't get much more contrived then that. :shame:
:huh1: Wow.
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I took the WOW as being appal at the "one eye willy" comment
For the record if Johnny was a real kid with one eye I would not have made that comment. But its fiction. It's also no worse then posters wanting a fictional character to miscarry. :shrug:
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LuvingLumi
Member Avatar
Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

six
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Jun 20 2012, 12:42 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
There is no such thing as a good scenes where the characters are written out of character.
1. A scene does not have to be in character to be entertaining in and of itself. 2. There is no objective standard for whether or not something is in or out of character.
Maybe it doesn't have to be but if the character continues to act our of character throughout the story and not just in one particular scene, it leads to fans scratching their heads wondering why this person continues to behave that way.
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six
Member Avatar


Helpless Romantic
Jun 20 2012, 12:51 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:44 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM
SocRMum1
Jun 20 2012, 10:35 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Please explain how that is NOT contrived?

Pretty clear cut contrivement if you ask me.
I thought the 'wow' was for calling Johnny 'One eye'd Willy.'

LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
you don't think that throwing Ej and Sami into grunt fuck mode about one month after their scenes started filming was not MarDar's idea of writing for Ejami in some form or fashion?
Not in the sense that Hopeless Dreamer has been arguing, no.

I disagree EJAMI and CAFE were getting the slow build up under MarDar with the friendship and the late night talks and other contrived tension so Sami gawks at him :eyeroll: Plumbing explosion anyone Ice cube tension for CAFE and the Caustin baby anyone? Lucas Nicole and Austin were eventually going to be thrown to the wolves IMO. The spoiler"Do you think we could ever be happy if we stop trying to kill each other"? Sami saying it was NEVER going to happen". Means it was and thats exactly where MarDar were going. No one is going to convince me otherwise and I'm not even an EJAMI fan.
Soap logic dictated that ejami would have been the rooting couple when Nicole lost her child and kidnapped theirs, too, but that isn't how things turned out is it? It's not that there weren't positive things for ejami, it's that there were positive things for everyone, but those are discounted for some reason. Yet, back before MarDar were let go, this was supposed to have been an ejole story. After all, they do have the baby on the way that they're bonding over and that Nicole hopes grows up to be like its dad. It's Nicole who gets the talking cupcakes and EJ's pleading. When MarDar had Ejole tangoing five minutes after he got her mom killed, nobody said 'this is going too fast! They're clearly doomed!" For all anyone really knows, a couple of months from now we could have been right back where we started with more ejole bones and Sami being cold to EJ. MarDar were pingponging all over the place, so nobody's going to convince me that they cracked their code and know what they were really planning.
Edited by six, Jun 20 2012, 01:09 PM.
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Aliaron
Member Avatar


six
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Jun 20 2012, 12:42 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM
Hopeless_Dreamer
Jun 20 2012, 12:19 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That was the only couple the interviewer asked about though. They probably would have said the same thing regardless. The writing was all over the place. Everybody was given good scenes and almost every couple got thrown under the bus. I'll never understand why ejami not wanting to kill each other is supposed to be more substantial than a baby and a bunch of 'cute' scenes.
There is no such thing as a good scenes where the characters are written out of character.
1. A scene does not have to be in character to be entertaining in and of itself. 2. There is no objective standard for whether or not something is in or out of character.
First, clear characteristics exist for characters on this show who haven't been a rewritten mess for five year, aka EJ. To go against the well-established characteristics would clearly be out of character. Which is why Sami not being unforgiving and vicious towards EJ is so wrong.

2, the problem with this show is that they believe that they don't have to write character's in character to write an entertaining show. But to steal a line from Tuvok: Logic is an integral part of narrative structure... a character's actions must flow inexorably from his or her established traits.
Edited by Aliaron, Jun 20 2012, 01:15 PM.
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six
Member Avatar


LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 01:05 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Jun 20 2012, 12:42 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:35 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
There is no such thing as a good scenes where the characters are written out of character.
1. A scene does not have to be in character to be entertaining in and of itself. 2. There is no objective standard for whether or not something is in or out of character.
Maybe it doesn't have to be but if the character continues to act our of character throughout the story and not just in one particular scene, it leads to fans scratching their heads wondering why this person continues to behave that way.
Agreed, but that just brings us to point #2. The show has been all over the place for years, giving everybody numerous scenes that can be used to support why 'their' version of the character is the correct version.
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Helpless Romantic


six
Jun 20 2012, 01:06 PM
Helpless Romantic
Jun 20 2012, 12:51 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:44 PM
Mitchapalooza
Jun 20 2012, 12:38 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I thought the 'wow' was for calling Johnny 'One eye'd Willy.'

LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 12:40 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Not in the sense that Hopeless Dreamer has been arguing, no.

I disagree EJAMI and CAFE were getting the slow build up under MarDar with the friendship and the late night talks and other contrived tension so Sami gawks at him :eyeroll: Plumbing explosion anyone Ice cube tension for CAFE and the Caustin baby anyone? Lucas Nicole and Austin were eventually going to be thrown to the wolves IMO. The spoiler"Do you think we could ever be happy if we stop trying to kill each other"? Sami saying it was NEVER going to happen". Means it was and thats exactly where MarDar were going. No one is going to convince me otherwise and I'm not even an EJAMI fan.
Soap logic dictated that ejami would have been the rooting couple when Nicole lost her child and kidnapped theirs, too, but that isn't how things turned out is it? It's not that there weren't positive things for ejami, it's that there were positive things for everyone, but those are discounted for some reason. Yet, back before MarDar were let go, this was supposed to have been an ejole story. After all, they do have the baby on the way that they're bonding over and that Nicole hopes grows up to be like its dad. It's Nicole who gets the talking cupcakes and EJ's pleading. For all anyone really knows, a couple of months from now we could have been right back where we started with more ejole bones and Sami being cold to EJ. MarDar were pingponging all over the place, so nobody's going to convince me that they cracked their code and know what they were really planning.
Soaps have no logic, if they did EJAMI would have NEVER been teased as a couple in any way shape or form. It is six years later and they are in the same place where they started, after all the crap they did to each other. The reason that EJAMI werent the rooting couple under the last and returning regime is because they didn't care to write for them because they didn't like them as anything other than enemies. But as I said MarDar showed their love of EJAMI on more than a few occasions and were incredibly rude to other fans on Twitter. While joining the EJAMI Facebook page and were the first writers to actually WANT To go there long term. As I said Austin and Lucas were the shmucks blinded by their love of Carrie and Sami. While they have Nicole doing the nasty with Dan. ALL for EJAMI's benefit. While they grow "closer and closer". No matter all the shit EJ has done and is doing now to Will.I took my blinders off about MarDar rather quickly.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Jun 20 2012, 01:28 PM.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

six
Jun 20 2012, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 01:05 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Jun 20 2012, 12:42 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
1. A scene does not have to be in character to be entertaining in and of itself. 2. There is no objective standard for whether or not something is in or out of character.
Maybe it doesn't have to be but if the character continues to act our of character throughout the story and not just in one particular scene, it leads to fans scratching their heads wondering why this person continues to behave that way.
Agreed, but that just brings us to point #2. The show has been all over the place for years, giving everybody numerous scenes that can be used to support why 'their' version of the character is the correct version.
but it's not 'my' version or Aliaron's version of the character. It's the character and how they existed from 93 to 2007......since then she's been out of character during the majority of that run.
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six
Member Avatar


Helpless Romantic
Jun 20 2012, 01:14 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 01:06 PM
Helpless Romantic
Jun 20 2012, 12:51 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:44 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I disagree EJAMI and CAFE were getting the slow build up under MarDar with the friendship and the late night talks and other contrived tension so Sami gawks at him :eyeroll: Plumbing explosion anyone Ice cube tension for CAFE and the Caustin baby anyone? Lucas Nicole and Austin were eventually going to be thrown to the wolves IMO. The spoiler"Do you think we could ever be happy if we stop trying to kill each other"? Sami saying it was NEVER going to happen". Means it was and thats exactly where MarDar were going. No one is going to convince me otherwise and I'm not even an EJAMI fan.
Soap logic dictated that ejami would have been the rooting couple when Nicole lost her child and kidnapped theirs, too, but that isn't how things turned out is it? It's not that there weren't positive things for ejami, it's that there were positive things for everyone, but those are discounted for some reason. Yet, back before MarDar were let go, this was supposed to have been an ejole story. After all, they do have the baby on the way that they're bonding over and that Nicole hopes grows up to be like its dad. It's Nicole who gets the talking cupcakes and EJ's pleading. For all anyone really knows, a couple of months from now we could have been right back where we started with more ejole bones and Sami being cold to EJ. MarDar were pingponging all over the place, so nobody's going to convince me that they cracked their code and know what they were really planning.
Soaps have no logic if they did EJAMI would have NEVER been teased as a couple bafter all the craqp and the reason that EJAMI werent the rooting couple under the last and returning regime is because they didn't care to write for them because they didn't like them as anything other than enemies but as I said MarDar should their love of EJAMI on more than a few occasions and were incredibly rude to other fans on Twitter while joining the EJAMI Facebook page and were the first writers to actually WANT To go there as I said Austin and Lucas were the smucks blinded by their love of Carrie and Sami. While they have Nicole doing the nasty with Dan. ALL for EJAMI's benefit. While they grow "closer and closer". No matter all the shit EJ has done and is doing now to Will.I took my blindersa off about MarDar rather quickly.
Your argument that this was an ejami story is built on soap logic. "Sami said she and EJ would never get back together, so that clearly meant they would" (or whatever the real quote was) is soap logic. Nicole is sleeping around for EJami's benefit? LOL, she didn't get the name Nichole for nothing. It's not OOC for her to sleep around. The best thing they could have done to benefit ejami would have been to keep her out of EJ's orbit in the first place. Not only did they not do that, they took steps to tie them together forever. All of Mars' tweets are still there and there are no nasty responses to anyone who wrote her with a specific fanbase concern. Complaining ejamis were told that someone would always be upset. The claim that no other writers wanted to write ejami doesn't actually seem to be based on anything.
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six
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LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 01:19 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Jun 20 2012, 01:05 PM
six
Jun 20 2012, 12:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Maybe it doesn't have to be but if the character continues to act our of character throughout the story and not just in one particular scene, it leads to fans scratching their heads wondering why this person continues to behave that way.
Agreed, but that just brings us to point #2. The show has been all over the place for years, giving everybody numerous scenes that can be used to support why 'their' version of the character is the correct version.
but it's not 'my' version or Aliaron's version of the character. It's the character and how they existed from 93 to 2007......since then she's been out of character during the majority of that run.
Sure if you ignore that Sami forgave people in that time period. I was never just talking about Sami (or EJ) though. All the characters have had periods of inconsistency and been entertaining in spite of it. To use Sami as an example though, it wasn't like her to accept the judge's order that she split her time with Allie 50/50 with Lucas. Weren't you glad that happened, though?
Edited by six, Jun 20 2012, 01:36 PM.
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