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Big Brother 14: Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Jun 17 2012, 11:06 PM (34,800 Views)
IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Tonight will have an even worse trainwreck than the SuperPass wrap party feeds with the Vegas Bash feeds.

Already there's tweets about them fucking up Porsche's hotel reservations and Eric Stein running into some trouble with the law.
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Miss Rhi
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"If Sami can't find happiness with a Martian, then she can't find happiness with anyone."

I don't understand why people keep going to the Las Vegas thing. I've read how people had to dispute charges for feeds for that over the years with their credit cards and Paypal. I also read that Jeff and Jordan went one year and they got stranded there because their airline reservations got screwed up too.
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Kenny
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King
Sep 21 2012, 06:14 PM
I fully understand Shane's bitterness. For sure.
I understand why he's upset. I just think he's a hypocrite. He lied to pretty much every person who walked out the door and participated in every blindside except his own. He claims he was loyal to his own alliance, yet he had no problem getting rid of Ian before the final 4. Had Ian not won that shark veto, he would've been gone thanks to Shane and the rest of the Quack Pack, yet Shane wants to act like he was loyal to the end and he never told a lie.

The moral superiority is what bothers me. I understand the anger, but he acts like Dan is the devil himself for telling so many lies yet his own lies are somehow justified because he's poor and he needed the money more than everyone else. He's the definition of a hypocrite.
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Miss Rhi
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"If Sami can't find happiness with a Martian, then she can't find happiness with anyone."

He acted like should have won just because he thought he deserved it the most. After the show was over he seemed to think this more then Frank, of course Frank couldn't say much since he won the America's Favorite Houseguest title.
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Shick
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My reaction to current Y&R ...

Kenny
Sep 21 2012, 10:32 PM
King
Sep 21 2012, 06:14 PM
I fully understand Shane's bitterness. For sure.
I understand why he's upset. I just think he's a hypocrite. He lied to pretty much every person who walked out the door and participated in every blindside except his own. He claims he was loyal to his own alliance, yet he had no problem getting rid of Ian before the final 4. Had Ian not won that shark veto, he would've been gone thanks to Shane and the rest of the Quack Pack, yet Shane wants to act like he was loyal to the end and he never told a lie.

The moral superiority is what bothers me. I understand the anger, but he acts like Dan is the devil himself for telling so many lies yet his own lies are somehow justified because he's poor and he needed the money more than everyone else. He's the definition of a hypocrite.
Difference between lying the way he did and lying the way Dan did. Some people take swearing on a person's wife and stuff like that very seriously. 1 day out of BB, he definitely has a right to feel the way that he does.
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Kenny
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Shick
Sep 21 2012, 11:00 PM
Kenny
Sep 21 2012, 10:32 PM
King
Sep 21 2012, 06:14 PM
I fully understand Shane's bitterness. For sure.
I understand why he's upset. I just think he's a hypocrite. He lied to pretty much every person who walked out the door and participated in every blindside except his own. He claims he was loyal to his own alliance, yet he had no problem getting rid of Ian before the final 4. Had Ian not won that shark veto, he would've been gone thanks to Shane and the rest of the Quack Pack, yet Shane wants to act like he was loyal to the end and he never told a lie.

The moral superiority is what bothers me. I understand the anger, but he acts like Dan is the devil himself for telling so many lies yet his own lies are somehow justified because he's poor and he needed the money more than everyone else. He's the definition of a hypocrite.
Difference between lying the way he did and lying the way Dan did. Some people take swearing on a person's wife and stuff like that very seriously. 1 day out of BB, he definitely has a right to feel the way that he does.
Again, what Dan swore on the bible about was true. He wasn't lying when he said Ian was the rat and he was in a 5-person alliance with Dan, Danielle, Shane and Britney. That was all true.

Nothing else was sworn on the bible to my knowledge. He never swore on the bible that he would take Frank to the end and keep Shane over Ian. Those were just general lies. Just like the lies everyone else told.

As for swearing on his wife... whatever. Not even Chelsea is mad about that. I could somewhat understand people being upset about the bible thing if he actually lied (which he didn't), but swearing on his wife? None of those people worship Chelsea Gheesling as their God so they have no reason to be offended by that -- certainly no more offended than they are by the lies they told themselves.

I understand that you don't like Dan but this notion that what he did is worse than what everyone else did is crap. He lied just like everyone else, the only difference is he did it better.
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Shick
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My reaction to current Y&R ...

Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:18 AM
Shick
Sep 21 2012, 11:00 PM
Kenny
Sep 21 2012, 10:32 PM
King
Sep 21 2012, 06:14 PM
I fully understand Shane's bitterness. For sure.
I understand why he's upset. I just think he's a hypocrite. He lied to pretty much every person who walked out the door and participated in every blindside except his own. He claims he was loyal to his own alliance, yet he had no problem getting rid of Ian before the final 4. Had Ian not won that shark veto, he would've been gone thanks to Shane and the rest of the Quack Pack, yet Shane wants to act like he was loyal to the end and he never told a lie.

The moral superiority is what bothers me. I understand the anger, but he acts like Dan is the devil himself for telling so many lies yet his own lies are somehow justified because he's poor and he needed the money more than everyone else. He's the definition of a hypocrite.
Difference between lying the way he did and lying the way Dan did. Some people take swearing on a person's wife and stuff like that very seriously. 1 day out of BB, he definitely has a right to feel the way that he does.
Again, what Dan swore on the bible about was true. He wasn't lying when he said Ian was the rat and he was in a 5-person alliance with Dan, Danielle, Shane and Britney. That was all true.

Nothing else was sworn on the bible to my knowledge. He never swore on the bible that he would take Frank to the end and keep Shane over Ian. Those were just general lies. Just like the lies everyone else told.

As for swearing on his wife... whatever. Not even Chelsea is mad about that. I could somewhat understand people being upset about the bible thing if he actually lied (which he didn't), but swearing on his wife? None of those people worship Chelsea Gheesling as their God so they have no reason to be offended by that -- certainly no more offended than they are by the lies they told themselves.

I understand that you don't like Dan but this notion that what he did is worse than what everyone else did is crap. He lied just like everyone else, the only difference is he did it better.
No it is different, and it's insulting to DAN the player to compare the way he lied to the way Shane lied. It's a totally different situation.
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Kenny
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Shick
Sep 22 2012, 12:36 AM
Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:18 AM
Shick
Sep 21 2012, 11:00 PM
Kenny
Sep 21 2012, 10:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Difference between lying the way he did and lying the way Dan did. Some people take swearing on a person's wife and stuff like that very seriously. 1 day out of BB, he definitely has a right to feel the way that he does.
Again, what Dan swore on the bible about was true. He wasn't lying when he said Ian was the rat and he was in a 5-person alliance with Dan, Danielle, Shane and Britney. That was all true.

Nothing else was sworn on the bible to my knowledge. He never swore on the bible that he would take Frank to the end and keep Shane over Ian. Those were just general lies. Just like the lies everyone else told.

As for swearing on his wife... whatever. Not even Chelsea is mad about that. I could somewhat understand people being upset about the bible thing if he actually lied (which he didn't), but swearing on his wife? None of those people worship Chelsea Gheesling as their God so they have no reason to be offended by that -- certainly no more offended than they are by the lies they told themselves.

I understand that you don't like Dan but this notion that what he did is worse than what everyone else did is crap. He lied just like everyone else, the only difference is he did it better.
No it is different...
How? You keep saying that but I haven't seen a single valid reason to back up your argument. You can leave out the bible stuff because I've already explained why that's invalid, and the wife stuff isn't really valid either for the reasons I explained above. This leaves us with what... lies? Just like the lies everyone else told, the only difference being that Dan was better at it than everyone else was. How does that make him any worse than all the others?
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Miss Rhi
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"If Sami can't find happiness with a Martian, then she can't find happiness with anyone."

After season 2 of BB I just came to accept that lying, cheating and backstabbing were a part of the game. Sometimes it's worked for people and sometimes it hasn't. I guess since I'm not really a religious person what Dan did in the game didn't really bother me.
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Shick
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My reaction to current Y&R ...

Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:52 AM
Shick
Sep 22 2012, 12:36 AM
Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:18 AM
Shick
Sep 21 2012, 11:00 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Again, what Dan swore on the bible about was true. He wasn't lying when he said Ian was the rat and he was in a 5-person alliance with Dan, Danielle, Shane and Britney. That was all true.

Nothing else was sworn on the bible to my knowledge. He never swore on the bible that he would take Frank to the end and keep Shane over Ian. Those were just general lies. Just like the lies everyone else told.

As for swearing on his wife... whatever. Not even Chelsea is mad about that. I could somewhat understand people being upset about the bible thing if he actually lied (which he didn't), but swearing on his wife? None of those people worship Chelsea Gheesling as their God so they have no reason to be offended by that -- certainly no more offended than they are by the lies they told themselves.

I understand that you don't like Dan but this notion that what he did is worse than what everyone else did is crap. He lied just like everyone else, the only difference is he did it better.
No it is different...
How? You keep saying that but I haven't seen a single valid reason to back up your argument. You can leave out the bible stuff because I've already explained why that's invalid, and the wife stuff isn't really valid either for the reasons I explained above. This leaves us with what... lies? Just like the lies everyone else told, the only difference being that Dan was better at it than everyone else was. How does that make him any worse than all the others?
Shane never took someone into the storage room 15 hours before live eviction/veto ceremony saying I swear on my wife and my ring that if Dani uses the veto on me, I will vote out Ian and it's us to the final 3. That's how it's different. It wasn't just a lie, it was a individually planned blindside on Dan's part. Am I saying it isn't allowed in the game, NO. But it feels like ppl are upset that Shane is bitter a day after the show is over? He most definitely does have a right to that. It's not being hypocritical, it's realizing that he was so close to money and was backstabbed by someone he trusted 100% and someone he was working with since the 3rd week.
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Kenny
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Shick
Sep 22 2012, 01:21 AM
Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:52 AM
Shick
Sep 22 2012, 12:36 AM
Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:18 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepsomewhat understand people being upset about the bible thing if he actually lied (which he didn't), but swearing on his wife? None of those people worship Chelsea Gheesling as their God so they have no reason to be offended by that -- certainly no more offended than they are by the lies they told themselves.

I understand that you don't like Dan but this notion that what he did is worse than what everyone else did is crap. He lied just like everyone else, the only difference is he did it better.
No it is different...
How? You keep saying that but I haven't seen a single valid reason to back up your argument. You can leave out the bible stuff because I've already explained why that's invalid, and the wife stuff isn't really valid either for the reasons I explained above. This leaves us with what... lies? Just like the lies everyone else told, the only difference being that Dan was better at it than everyone else was. How does that make him any worse than all the others?
Shane never took someone into the storage room 15 hours before live eviction/veto ceremony saying I swear on my wife and my ring that if Dani uses the veto on me, I will vote out Ian and it's us to the final 3. That's how it's different. It wasn't just a lie, it was a individually planned blindside on Dan's part. Am I saying it isn't allowed in the game, NO. But it feels like ppl are upset that Shane is bitter a day after the show is over? He most definitely does have a right to that. It's not being hypocritical, it's realizing that he was so close to money and was backstabbed by someone he trusted 100% and someone he was working with since the 3rd week.
I don't see how swearing on his wife makes him any worse than anyone else. No one worships Chelsea Gheesling as their God and no one has any investment in Dan and Chelsea's marriage except Dan and Chelsea, so what reason does anyone have to be offended by that? Not even Chelsea is mad about it and she's the one he swore on.

The fact is, Shane lied just as much as Dan. He won HOH, put up two people he had a deal with and then blamed it on his closest ally to keep from taking any heat for it. He told Frank and Joe he wanted to go to the end with them while plotting to get them out the whole time. He promised his vote to every person on the block and then voted them out in a blindside. He lied to Britney about having a final 2 with Danielle. He lied to Danielle about having a final 2 with Britney. He went along with Britney in their fake deal with Frank to keep from going on the block so Dan would go home instead. He agreed to evict Ian even though they agreed to not go after each other until final 4. He trash talked pretty much everyone in the house but of course was too afraid to say anything to their face. He lied all summer and was much nastier than Dan in terms of personal attacks and nasty comments about other houseguests, but because he didn't swear on the wife he doesn't have he's morally superior? I don't think so.
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Mateo
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Punk Cabaret is Freedom

Miss Rhi
Sep 22 2012, 12:58 AM
After season 2 of BB I just came to accept that lying, cheating and backstabbing were a part of the game. Sometimes it's worked for people and sometimes it hasn't. I guess since I'm not really a religious person what Dan did in the game didn't really bother me.
That's the way I've always seen it too. Lying is lying, and it will always be a part of the game. Same goes for people swearing on this or that.
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Kenny
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Let it be known that I understand why Shane is upset. I understand why he's bitter. I just wish he would own up to his own lies and admit that he didn't play a clean game either, because he didn't. He lied just as much as everyone else.
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Shick
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My reaction to current Y&R ...

Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 01:53 AM
Shick
Sep 22 2012, 01:21 AM
Kenny
Sep 22 2012, 12:52 AM
Shick
Sep 22 2012, 12:36 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepsomewhat
How? You keep saying that but I haven't seen a single valid reason to back up your argument. You can leave out the bible stuff because I've already explained why that's invalid, and the wife stuff isn't really valid either for the reasons I explained above. This leaves us with what... lies? Just like the lies everyone else told, the only difference being that Dan was better at it than everyone else was. How does that make him any worse than all the others?
Shane never took someone into the storage room 15 hours before live eviction/veto ceremony saying I swear on my wife and my ring that if Dani uses the veto on me, I will vote out Ian and it's us to the final 3. That's how it's different. It wasn't just a lie, it was a individually planned blindside on Dan's part. Am I saying it isn't allowed in the game, NO. But it feels like ppl are upset that Shane is bitter a day after the show is over? He most definitely does have a right to that. It's not being hypocritical, it's realizing that he was so close to money and was backstabbed by someone he trusted 100% and someone he was working with since the 3rd week.
I don't see how swearing on his wife makes him any worse than anyone else. No one worships Chelsea Gheesling as their God and no one has any investment in Dan and Chelsea's marriage except Dan and Chelsea, so what reason does anyone have to be offended by that? Not even Chelsea is mad about it and she's the one he swore on.

The fact is, Shane lied just as much as Dan. He won HOH, put up two people he had a deal with and then blamed it on his closest ally to keep from taking any heat for it. He told Frank and Joe he wanted to go to the end with them while plotting to get them out the whole time. He promised his vote to every person on the block and then voted them out in a blindside. He lied to Britney about having a final 2 with Danielle. He lied to Danielle about having a final 2 with Britney. He went along with Britney in their fake deal with Frank to keep from going on the block so Dan would go home instead. He agreed to evict Ian even though they agreed to not go after each other until final 4. He trash talked pretty much everyone in the house but of course was too afraid to say anything to their face. He lied all summer and was much nastier than Dan in terms of personal attacks and nasty comments about other houseguests, but because he didn't swear on the wife he doesn't have he's morally superior? I don't think so.
I didn't say worse, I said different. And Shane has a problem with it because it got him out of the house. It's all understandable. But to say Shane and Dan's lies were the same and that they both lied the same amount, you'll never get me to see it that way. Not in a million years. If I was a Dan fan I would embrace that fact that he is a lying backstabber in the game. Why worry about what people think of his methods? Dan clearly didn't when he was doing them. You'll never convince a non-Dan fan that Shane is just as cut throat and as much of a liar as he was. NEVER.

Shane personally attacked and shit talked everyone? I wouldn't say that, it was more just Janelle and Frank with a little bit of Willie thrown in there every so often.
Edited by Shick, Sep 22 2012, 02:13 AM.
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Kenny
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Shick
Sep 22 2012, 02:12 AM
To say Shane and Dan's lies were the same and that they both lied the same amount, you'll never get me to see it that way. Not in a million years. If I was a Dan fan I would embrace that fact that he is a lying backstabber in the game. Why worry about what people think of his methods? Dan clearly didn't when he was doing them. You'll never convince a non-Dan fan that Shane is just as cut throat and as much of a liar as he was. NEVER.
I didn't say Shane was as cut-throat as Dan. Clearly that's not true. Dan's game this season was the most ruthless I've ever seen. That said, Shane absolutely lied as much as Dan, if not more so. Perhaps his lies weren't as big as Dan's and they didn't have as big of an impact on the game (which is probably why they were never shown on the show), but he did lie... a lot. All day every day. To everyone.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

Kenny, I totally agree with you that Shane needs to own up to his own lies and betrayals... like his pointless lies to Janelle and Joe especially when Janelle was getting evicted and stringing Joe along the whole season.

What takes Dan's lies to a different level though is the extra varnish of bullshit and phoniness he put on each and every lie in the game that left every player on the jury questioning whether they had a single sincere interaction with Dan during the summer they spent together. Now don't get me wrong... the bullshit and phoniness of Dan made the show and feeds more entertaining/interesting than they otherwise would have been at times, but I can't blame a single BB player this season for never wanting to have anything to do with Dan Gheesling or thinking him a douchebag in real life.

I mean, I rooted for Dan to win BB10 (although I quit watching the feeds after about 4 weeks cause all my early faves got evicted and I couldn't stand Jerry's voice) and after what I saw this season he just makes me ill.
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Kenny
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IMissAremid
Sep 22 2012, 02:30 AM
What takes Dan's lies to a different level though is the extra varnish of bullshit and phoniness he put on each and every lie in the game that left every player on the jury questioning whether they had a single sincere interaction with Dan during the summer they spent together. Now don't get me wrong... the bullshit and phoniness of Dan made the show and feeds more entertaining/interesting than they otherwise would have been at times, but I can't blame a single BB player this season for never wanting to have anything to do with Dan Gheesling or thinking him a douchebag in real life.
I don't disagree with this.

Dan is an amazing liar. He doesn't just lie and hope the person believes him -- he throws in that "extra varnish of bullshit and phoniness" (Britney called it "the mist," some call it charm) to make sure they're completely under his spell. He doesn't just make things up on the fly -- he conditions people days in advance for lies he has yet to tell. He has all the persuasive abilities of a cult leader. I don't think he's any worse than the others for that though. They all lied. The only difference is that Dan did it better. You can't fault him for that in a game like this.
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IMissAremid
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After all... tomorrow is another day!

I'm actually not talking about "the mist" when I am talking about the extra varnish of bullshit and phoniness.

To me, the mist is about planting seeds to convince other people to do what will benefit you the most in the game, even to the detriment of their own game. This can be accomplished a lot of different ways. In Will's case it was mostly charisma unique to Will and possessed by no one else. In Dan's case, it's him applying all the techniques he's learned in books like "How to Win Friends and Influence People" in terms of appealing to people's egos and need for attention by being a sounding board and getting them to talk about themselves all the time.

But the extra varnish of bullshit and phoniness is a whole other thing. The phoniness that bugged me and I suspect the jury went beyond just attempting to convince the other players to make a certain move in the game that would benefit Dan. It was bullshit and phoniness to try to convince the houseguests to think a certain way about Dan, the person, despite how ruthless he was being in the game. And by that I'm talking about the way he presented himself to others in the house outside of the game lies by holding Bible readings with the other houseguests and talking about how he wanted to be their coaches for life and be their pal after BB to coach them on how to handle the BB experience. He just laid that on way too thick and that's why he deserved to lose. An analogy I've thought about a few times this season is that it was like Dan was trying to play Big Brother like Dr. Will yet still be perceived as a Catholic Kaysar. It was just crazy on his part to think he could get away with that.

And this varnish of bullshit and phoniness even extended to Dan's relationship with the audience and his conduct in the diary room with his ridiculous pandering in certain situations like when he cast an eviction vote of Mike Boogie "for Janelle" when Dan had a huge hand in her eviction and could have stopped Danielle from nominating her or at least clued Janelle in to her dangerous situation if he actually wanted her to stay that week. That just disgusted me.
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King
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Yeah, I can see THAT point about Shane. He lied too.


Lying is a part of the game, but there comes a point where you have to take responsibility for the lies. Sometimes that costs you the game.


Ask Russell Hantz. Happened to him twice.
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King
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I don't know if I would ever get the feeds again.


I'd have to really like the returning HG's. My feed-viewing went way down after Janelle left.
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