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Interesting/Spoilerish Tweets, Week of 6/25; Twitter/FB list in first post
Topic Started: Jun 25 2012, 04:38 AM (52,196 Views)
AHM


PhoenixRising05
Jun 27 2012, 11:30 AM
angie37
Jun 27 2012, 11:21 AM
Well, hopefully this is to about to become an ensemble show again where no 1 (2, 3, or 4) character is the center of the universe. And that's the way it should be.
Exactly. That is what it should be.

And, yes, popularity isn't the only factor in a character or actor staying around but when you see characters like Rafe, Daniel, EJ, etc survive different writing regimes than that becomes the major factor. You'll find new writers often don't like to keep on characters brought on by the previous regime unless they are popular and are forced to write for them and, of course, they may like them and that makes the job easier. Look what happened to Madison and Ian. They are prime examples.

Yes, there are other factors. It's just that popularity tends to be the reasoning as to why a character like Rafe or Daniel or others like them stick around despite not having the best writing and some parts of the audience disliking them. The fact that a writer or producer may like them may play a role but if the character or actor sticks around even after that writer or producer is gone, that is proof that it's more about popularity in regards to those characters than anything else.
I think Rafe and Daniel stick around because they are easy for lazy writers to use, and they're good looking, which is enough for some of the audience. Put another cardboard soap hunk in their places and the new piece of plastic would do just as well. I don't know how popular they are, but I do know they are utterly replaceable and without substance. I think the reason the show stinks so much is that we don't have characters; we have cogs in a machine. Jack has a large fan base, but they wouldn't write for him; they did little to show new fans why the character has been so popular and gave established Jack fans almost nothing to watch. Certainly MA/Jack's fan base has diminished over time, but it seems there was a concerted effort to destroy the character by writers who couldn't deal with a character like him. When they tried to ax him in 91, he was probably the most popular actor on the show. Then the writing for him was sub par for the next two years until they did fire him in 93, though he was still incredibly popular. The writers/producers have a lot to do with it. They can work to make a popular character less popular, and they can (and do) ax popular characters and try to push unpopular characters. If the show gives a character lots of air time, that character will get some modicum of popularity, but I would say the overall downward trend of the show would indicate the show's darlings aren't that great. And if someone actually watches this show specifically for a character like Daniel . . . . well, I must admit to not being able to comprehend that.
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tomsawyer
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Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:38 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:25 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:13 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
No. The show is not written around EJ because he's popular. It is written around EJ because he's a paper thin character that they can use for anything. Need a bad guy. Let's use EJ. Need a victim. Let's use EJ.

He is the perfect instrument for a terrible writer. The is nothing solid or concrete about him. Add on the fact, that JS probably gets paid in guarantees and he's a cheap get.

If popularity equaled stories then Jack wouldn't be fired, Stefano would be more than EJ's play pet and Marlena would have an actual story.

I don't care if some watch the show for EJ. This is an ensemble cast. Others watch the show only for Will and Sonny. Then you got those who watched for Jack. And don't forget those who watch for Marlena.

Yet and still, only one of the characters is consuming the show. And its been shown that EJ can not carry this show to success. He hasn't led one successful storyline.
EJ is a product of the writers - whomever they are. So why would that singular character be given so much because he's 'paper thin'. How is it the same writers aren't writing other characters to be 'paper thin'?

I sincerely doubt James Scott is a 'cheap get' - particularly since the renegotiated contract kicked in. There are any number of other actors on the show that would likely be every bit as 'cheap' - so why focus solely on him?

I am the first person to agree that the show needs more balance and that EJ gets more air time than is necessary - particularly lately. While I enjoy seeing him I understand the negative impact on the show. But I completely disagree with your assessment as to why they focus so much on him.
They are trying to write other characters as paper thin but their fans aren't having it. J&J fans were like f' this when they turned Jennifer into a worse waffler than she was. Look how they've watered down Austin, who was already watered down. And Lucas who was never this much of a good guy.

There are not many other characters the writers can flip-flop constantly and their fans go along with it. If Marlena started stealing babies and blackmailing people, something tells me her fans would be pissed.

But EJ has no true solid core. He's like clay and they can just mush into a mode. Great for writers. Terrible for the audience who have to follow that mess.
So are you implying that EJ's fans are to blame for his inconsistent writing?!?!
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:38 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:25 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:13 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
No. The show is not written around EJ because he's popular. It is written around EJ because he's a paper thin character that they can use for anything. Need a bad guy. Let's use EJ. Need a victim. Let's use EJ.

He is the perfect instrument for a terrible writer. The is nothing solid or concrete about him. Add on the fact, that JS probably gets paid in guarantees and he's a cheap get.

If popularity equaled stories then Jack wouldn't be fired, Stefano would be more than EJ's play pet and Marlena would have an actual story.

I don't care if some watch the show for EJ. This is an ensemble cast. Others watch the show only for Will and Sonny. Then you got those who watched for Jack. And don't forget those who watch for Marlena.

Yet and still, only one of the characters is consuming the show. And its been shown that EJ can not carry this show to success. He hasn't led one successful storyline.
EJ is a product of the writers - whomever they are. So why would that singular character be given so much because he's 'paper thin'. How is it the same writers aren't writing other characters to be 'paper thin'?

I sincerely doubt James Scott is a 'cheap get' - particularly since the renegotiated contract kicked in. There are any number of other actors on the show that would likely be every bit as 'cheap' - so why focus solely on him?

I am the first person to agree that the show needs more balance and that EJ gets more air time than is necessary - particularly lately. While I enjoy seeing him I understand the negative impact on the show. But I completely disagree with your assessment as to why they focus so much on him.
They are trying to write other characters as paper thin but their fans aren't having it. J&J fans were like f' this when they turned Jennifer into a worse waffler than she was. Look how they've watered down Austin, who was already watered down. And Lucas who was never this much of a good guy.

There are not many other characters the writers can flip-flop constantly and their fans go along with it. If Marlena started stealing babies and blackmailing people, something tells me her fans would be pissed.

But EJ has no true solid core. He's like clay and they can just mush into a mode. Great for writers. Terrible for the audience who have to follow that mess.


To say, EJ is just sooo popular that they have to use him five times a week in five storylines is just ignoring the fact that there are more popular characters that have not been used and have been tossed aside.

I'd have to be walking with blinders on to believe that.
Do you really think EJ is the one character who's fans have not voiced their displeasure over the writing? Or that they are listening to fans of other characters that do?

Is that why Sami is written to be so consistently in character?
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Aliaron
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tomsawyer
Jun 27 2012, 11:48 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:38 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:25 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
EJ is a product of the writers - whomever they are. So why would that singular character be given so much because he's 'paper thin'. How is it the same writers aren't writing other characters to be 'paper thin'?

I sincerely doubt James Scott is a 'cheap get' - particularly since the renegotiated contract kicked in. There are any number of other actors on the show that would likely be every bit as 'cheap' - so why focus solely on him?

I am the first person to agree that the show needs more balance and that EJ gets more air time than is necessary - particularly lately. While I enjoy seeing him I understand the negative impact on the show. But I completely disagree with your assessment as to why they focus so much on him.
They are trying to write other characters as paper thin but their fans aren't having it. J&J fans were like f' this when they turned Jennifer into a worse waffler than she was. Look how they've watered down Austin, who was already watered down. And Lucas who was never this much of a good guy.

There are not many other characters the writers can flip-flop constantly and their fans go along with it. If Marlena started stealing babies and blackmailing people, something tells me her fans would be pissed.

But EJ has no true solid core. He's like clay and they can just mush into a mode. Great for writers. Terrible for the audience who have to follow that mess.
So are you implying that EJ's fans are to blame for his inconsistent writing?!?!
No. I don't care about how his fans act. Its the writers who write him that way. Even if they could get away with writing him badly that doesn't mean they should write him badly.

His fans are not the reason he's on all the time. His so-called uber-popularity isn't. Its the writers flaws that is the reason he's always used.

The writers would rather use a paper thin character constantly, than write for an an ensemble cast and stay true to characters.

That's why we don't get group scenes anymore. Group scenes display more than not the differences in characters. That's hard to write when you can write different characters.

Edited by Aliaron, Jun 27 2012, 11:56 AM.
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AHM


Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:52 AM
tomsawyer
Jun 27 2012, 11:48 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:38 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
They are trying to write other characters as paper thin but their fans aren't having it. J&J fans were like f' this when they turned Jennifer into a worse waffler than she was. Look how they've watered down Austin, who was already watered down. And Lucas who was never this much of a good guy.

There are not many other characters the writers can flip-flop constantly and their fans go along with it. If Marlena started stealing babies and blackmailing people, something tells me her fans would be pissed.

But EJ has no true solid core. He's like clay and they can just mush into a mode. Great for writers. Terrible for the audience who have to follow that mess.
So are you implying that EJ's fans are to blame for his inconsistent writing?!?!
No. I don't care about how his fans act. Its the writers who write him that way. If they can get away with writing him badly that doesn't mean they should write him badly.

But they'd rather use a paper thin character constantly, than write for an an ensemble cast and stay true to characters.

That's why we don't get group scenes anymore. Group scenes display more than not the differences in characters. That's hard to write when you can write different characters.
I do think maybe they have more freedom with EJ, because it's hard for his fans to scream, "EJ would never do that!" because, who is this guy anyway?
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OliveAnn


IMo, whether a character is popular by general concensus or not can best be measured from a distance, when the character is off the show, even if just for a few weeks. While the character is on the show, it's hard to form an opinion. Often, inconsistencies in writing lead to a character's personality constantly changing, which can lead to a character going from popular to utterly unpopular (look under: Sami Brady). If the problem is in the actor's performance, that too can change. There have been plenty examples when a character became more popular as the actor's/actress' performance got better. And don't even get me started on die hard fanboys and fangirls who will post nonstop, thus creating a false image about character's popularity.

The excitement over Eileen Davidson's return shows that all of her characters were popular. The excitement over Jarlena's return showed they were and still are popular. So, whether Melanie is popular now can, IMO, best be judged a few years or even just months from now, just by observing people's reactions at the idea of her coming back.

So, to see whether EJ or Rafe are popular, it would be best to send them away for a while and then see whether majority would eargerly await their return or pray they don't come back at all.

(I tried to explain this idea of mine the best that I could. I probably failed, so if you don't get it, that's alright.)
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

:popcorn:

(because I just don't see this ending well)
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Aliaron
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OliveAnn
Jun 27 2012, 11:56 AM
IMo, whether a character is popular by general concensus or not can best be measured from a distance, when the character is off the show, even if just for a few weeks. While the character is on the show, it's hard to form an opinion. Often, inconsistencies in writing lead to a character's personality constantly changing, which can lead to a character going from popular to utterly unpopular (look under: Sami Brady). If the problem is in the actor's performance, that too can change. There have been plenty examples when a character became more popular as the actor's/actress' performance got better. And don't even get me started on die hard fanboys and fangirls who will post nonstop, thus creating a false image about character's popularity.

The excitement over Eileen Davidson's return shows that all of her characters were popular. The excitement over Jarlena's return showed they were and still are popular. So, whether Melanie is popular now can, IMO, best be judged a few years or even just months from now, just by observing people's reactions at the idea of her coming back.

So, to see whether EJ or Rafe are popular, it would be best to send them away for a while and then see whether majority would eargerly await their return or pray they don't come back at all.

(I tried to explain this idea of mine the best that I could. I probably failed, so if you don't get it, that's alright.)
I can agree with that. I remember how general boards reacted to news of BD's return. I also remember when Hope returned.
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SocRMum1
Member Avatar
Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:52 AM
tomsawyer
Jun 27 2012, 11:48 AM
Aliaron
Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM
SocRMum1
Jun 27 2012, 11:38 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
They are trying to write other characters as paper thin but their fans aren't having it. J&J fans were like f' this when they turned Jennifer into a worse waffler than she was. Look how they've watered down Austin, who was already watered down. And Lucas who was never this much of a good guy.

There are not many other characters the writers can flip-flop constantly and their fans go along with it. If Marlena started stealing babies and blackmailing people, something tells me her fans would be pissed.

But EJ has no true solid core. He's like clay and they can just mush into a mode. Great for writers. Terrible for the audience who have to follow that mess.
So are you implying that EJ's fans are to blame for his inconsistent writing?!?!
No. I don't care about how his fans act. Its the writers who write him that way. Even if they could get away with writing him badly that doesn't mean they should write him badly.

His fans are not the reason he's on all the time. His so-called uber-popularity isn't. Its the writers flaws that is the reason he's always used.

The writers would rather use a paper thin character constantly, than write for an an ensemble cast and stay true to characters.

That's why we don't get group scenes anymore. Group scenes display more than not the differences in characters. That's hard to write when you can write different characters.

I think the reason we don't get group scenes any more has far more to do with budget than anything else. It's more expensive to have more cast there - and it takes longer to film.

And as far as how the writers write for EJ - they have that option with every other character. It's certainly not as if they've been dedicated to preserving the history of exisiting characters or haven't brought on completely new characters since JS started in 2006.
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AHM


OliveAnn
Jun 27 2012, 11:56 AM
IMo, whether a character is popular by general concensus or not can best be measured from a distance, when the character is off the show, even if just for a few weeks. While the character is on the show, it's hard to form an opinion. Often, inconsistencies in writing lead to a character's personality constantly changing, which can lead to a character going from popular to utterly unpopular (look under: Sami Brady). If the problem is in the actor's performance, that too can change. There have been plenty examples when a character became more popular as the actor's/actress' performance got better. And don't even get me started on die hard fanboys and fangirls who will post nonstop, thus creating a false image about character's popularity.

The excitement over Eileen Davidson's return shows that all of her characters were popular. The excitement over Jarlena's return showed they were and still are popular. So, whether Melanie is popular now can, IMO, best be judged a few years or even just months from now, just by observing people's reactions at the idea of her coming back.

So, to see whether EJ or Rafe are popular, it would be best to send them away for a while and then see whether majority would eargerly await their return or pray they don't come back at all.

(I tried to explain this idea of mine the best that I could. I probably failed, so if you don't get it, that's alright.)
I must concede that I think EJ would be remembered and missed. However, if these characters left now, and say, five years from now, people are still reminiscing about what a great character Melanie or Daniel or Rafe was, or what a great romance Dannifer or Safe or Chelanie was, I'd be shocked.
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annie21


PhoenixRising05
Jun 27 2012, 11:30 AM
angie37
Jun 27 2012, 11:21 AM
Well, hopefully this is to about to become an ensemble show again where no 1 (2, 3, or 4) character is the center of the universe. And that's the way it should be.
Exactly. That is what it should be.

And, yes, popularity isn't the only factor in a character or actor staying around but when you see characters like Rafe, Daniel, EJ, etc survive different writing regimes than that becomes the major factor. You'll find new writers often don't like to keep on characters brought on by the previous regime unless they are popular and are forced to write for them and, of course, they may like them and that makes the job easier. Look what happened to Madison and Ian. They are prime examples.

Yes, there are other factors. It's just that popularity tends to be the reasoning as to why a character like Rafe or Daniel or others like them stick around despite not having the best writing and some parts of the audience disliking them. The fact that a writer or producer may like them may play a role but if the character or actor sticks around even after that writer or producer is gone, that is proof that it's more about popularity in regards to those characters than anything else.
I disagree that popularity is the factor for why characters like Daniel and Rafe stick around.

TPTB are the ones who ultimately decide who stays and who goes. They don't really give more than lip service to polls and audience surveys. As several have pointed out, the fanbases are all over the map anyway, and there's no real consensus to be found. So the audience feedback probably sounds like a bunch of cacophonous noise with no real trend line. TPTB created these fanbase wars, so they got what was coming to them -- chaos and disruption among a vocal few.

My view is the only time they point at popularity is to defend their decision to keep a character they already want to keep. If they want to get rid of a popular character (e.g., John and Marlena last time) then nothing will stop them. Just like politicians, they will focus on the statistics that support their worldview and ignore anything else.

Head writers do have some say in that. Tomlin was probably asked for a list of cuts and he submitted his preferences. That list carries weight -- especially in the early days of a writing team's return. The speed with which the vet firings were announced -- within days of the return of the new/old writers, says this was already worked out ahead of time.

The characters who are currently on are there at the pleasure of TPTB. The storylines they have are at the approval (and sometimes the behest) of those same PTB. We, the audience, have very little influence anymore unless we happen to agree with TPTB's choices.






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Lil
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Matt
Jun 27 2012, 11:58 AM
:popcorn:

(because I just don't see this ending well)
LOL! I'll see your :popcorn: and raise a :wine:
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annie21


Another thing. Even if we assume that TPTB do listen to viewer feedback, TPTB don't get nuance and subtlety. That's why they tend to listen to superficial comments like "he's hawt." They can understand that. They can measure that in an opinion survey. But they don't want to look at anything more complex -- so any system they have of measuring audience opinion is skewed from the outset toward superficiality. Thus, if they get a vague sense that a storyline is a problem, they just drop it. They aren't interested in understanding reasons why it doesn't work and trying to fix it. Too much trouble. Better to drop the story, backburner the characters and churn out some more junk that skates around on the surface and doesn't require deep thought on their part or on the part of the viewers.

That's why there is a general preference at the show for thinly developed characters that can be shifted in any direction without too much backlash. Thus, if viewers can't say "EJ would never..." then that's good for the writers. They are free to write basically anything they want.


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lysie


There's too much discussion of fans. Keep it about the characters.

Meanwhile, someone tweet an actor and get them to say something interesting. I'll find a prize for the person who can get the most interesting tweet from a Days actor. Seriously. Go.
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SoapGal1
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I'm thinking TPTB do put some level of stock on what is said on the internet be it twitter, message boards, facebook..whatever.

And just look at this board, I'd venture to say he's the most talked about character on here, good or bad.

Currently he's dominating at least two threads I'm reading & is being mentioned in several others pretty regularly.
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annie21


He's on practically every day. It's a self-fulfilling thing.

Back to on-topic, lol. So has JS only tweeted that one tweet?
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granolagirl
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#SorryNotSorry

PhoenixRising05
Jun 27 2012, 11:30 AM
angie37
Jun 27 2012, 11:21 AM
Well, hopefully this is to about to become an ensemble show again where no 1 (2, 3, or 4) character is the center of the universe. And that's the way it should be.
Exactly. That is what it should be.

And, yes, popularity isn't the only factor in a character or actor staying around but when you see characters like Rafe, Daniel, EJ, etc survive different writing regimes than that becomes the major factor. You'll find new writers often don't like to keep on characters brought on by the previous regime unless they are popular and are forced to write for them and, of course, they may like them and that makes the job easier. Look what happened to Madison and Ian. They are prime examples.

Yes, there are other factors. It's just that popularity tends to be the reasoning as to why a character like Rafe or Daniel or others like them stick around despite not having the best writing and some parts of the audience disliking them. The fact that a writer or producer may like them may play a role but if the character or actor sticks around even after that writer or producer is gone, that is proof that it's more about popularity in regards to those characters than anything else.
I think it's proof that it's more about budget, when they are playing musical chairs with characters with longer histories on the show and in many cases, more vocal fans.

Plus, I think it's really difficult to tease out popularity on the internet when all the fangroups are using the same tactics to promote their favorites, but it's difficult for me to believe that anything is telling them that Gabi is inexpendable. I know NBC and Sony have more detailed data available to them, but focus group data is often too small a sample to be meaningful and we know they don't always talk to actual viewers of the show. Fans can skew internet surveys, and try gleaning anything meaningful from twitter. I think MA's comments were pretty revealing about how they're flying blind over there. The best thing they could do is find a writer with a voice, but unfortunately I'm not convinced that it's Tomlin.
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Lil
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lysie
Jun 27 2012, 12:38 PM
There's too much discussion of fans. Keep it about the characters.

Meanwhile, someone tweet an actor and get them to say something interesting. I'll find a prize for the person who can get the most interesting tweet from a Days actor. Seriously. Go.
*crickets*
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

I'm tempted to start a new thread where someone gives me 3 characters & I spontaneously write them a story just to show to TPTB who read this board exactly how fucking easy it is.
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

I have no idea why that just double posted. :drunk:
Edited by Matt, Jun 27 2012, 12:53 PM.
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