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| Rafe & Carrie Fight Their Feelings; Airs the week of July 2nd | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 28 2012, 01:42 PM (8,390 Views) | |
| bonescastle | Jul 1 2012, 08:38 AM Post #81 |
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The only one who has room to talk is Austin.He did nothing wrong to have Carrie cheat on him and fall for Rafe.But Sami?Long before Carrie was in the picture,she treated Rafe like crap since he resigned to protect her.He never failed her.She pushed him away.So he looked for comfort and felt attracted to Carrie and just kissed her once.Sami has no room to talk at all. |
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| elci525 | Jul 1 2012, 09:14 AM Post #82 |
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**WARNING - Long post follows. Doubt anyone will read; but as always, I had a lot of junk to vent!** I have typically been a major, major Sami defender. I have defended even her most ridiculous, petulant, impulsive, nearly hysterical actions. I identified with her, in a way, in terms of her insecurities, and I could sort of understand that she thought she had to force love in order to have it, and that it wouldn't just happen of its own accord. I always thought that Sami's schemes were fueled by these insecurities, by this desperate hunt to find and keep love. And once she had finally found (I am looking at you Lucas), she had no need to scheme - she was now the target of manipulations. I even forgave the whole Stan thing, b/c it seemed totally in character for her to feel like the world had betrayed her and her hunger for revenge was so great, she would do something so insane and stupid (of course, the fact that AS had to go on maternity leave -- well, I blame that logistical point for a lot of the WTFery that happened with this ridic storyline). I always saw her make stupid, self-destructive decisions, but I somehow always understood and could forgive her. I loved that she NEVER cheated (up until recently, of course), because once she found love (whether real or delusional) she would never throw it away like that. She was wishy-washy sometimes, and that was a bit annoying, but whatever. And for all of Carrie's sanctimony, she does have a history of cheating (twice, three times if we count emotional cheating/kissing with Rafe). And somehow Carrie always got a pass - princess Carrie indeed. This distinguished Sami from Carrie in pretty good way. And I almost always sided with Sami over Carrie. But now this show, in a few short weeks, has me disliking Sami like I never have before, and ACTUALLY siding with Carrie a little bit. I have seen the Marlena/Sami/Carrie scenes for Monday, and Sami just really comes off as terribly mean and intolerable. Now, I DON'T NOT blame Carrie or Rafe for their role in what happened between them. Carrie knowingly acted on her feelings for a married man; Rafe emotionally cheated on Sami before he knew about gross-sex with EJ; and Marlena even told Carrie to follow her feelings...for a another man....who was married....to Marlena's daughter!! The injustice of that seemed pretty horrific to me. But then to watch and listen to Sami....I was beyond grossed out. Sami can feel any damn way she pleases. But to AGAIN be all, poor me I was the last to know, was disappointing. To repeat the same dialogue with Marlena, TO SPOUT THE SAME CENSURE SHE HAS BEEN SPOUTING FOR TWENTY YEARS...it was just enough already. Sami says a mean to thing to Carrie, Carrie snaps back saying she doesn't live her life like Sami....she doesn't need to look at the calendar to know who the father of the baby is (and I mean, with the way Sami's been acting lately, Carrie kindaaaa has a point). Then Marlena says "Enough already!," which to me sounded like she was asking Carrie to stop. But then for some reason Sami's snaps back with, "So you're taking her side?!" Really, Sami....did you hear what Marlena just said? Or are you too wrapped up in your own consuming indignation to actually register reality? I never thought I would actually find Sami intolerably infuriating, after all the times I have defender her. But in these scenes, I did. And her nostril flairs were annoying. I don't blame Sami for still being pissed that Carrie got involved with her husband. But she is conveniently forgetting that she, SHE, broke up her own marriage...and she is still refusing to take accountability, and she is still deflecting and blaming others. I do seem to recall her pushing Rafe away a bit, and the way she blamed him for bringing her to the pub that night of the shooting...just ugh. Add to that the hypocrisy of kicking Rafe out for the kiss, knowing full well she had cheated on him with EJ. And it was Rafe who didn't want to see or speak to Sami again to work though their problems....and I can't blame him. That Carrie was there...I guess that could have been a factor hindering any make-up between Sami and Rafe. But it's not enough to erase the mistakes Sami made, or to allow her to quickly deflect onto others and make me feel like she is justified. At least Carrie acknowledges that Sami had a point about her being in the way of Sami and Rafe. And, I am sorry, but the fact that Sami is "with" Lucas (kinda) and also now making eyes at her rapist, I can't defend her this time. I know Rafe was her husband and she has a right to be angry technically, but a huge part of me feels Sami forfeited that right. So maybe Carrie is not innocent. But holy fuck neither is Sami, and she has absolutely no room to talk. I have never, ever disliked Sami more than I do right now. Who woulda thunk I would ever take Carrie's side over hers. Way...to...go DOOL writers - in a few short weeks, you have managed the impossible. Edited by elci525, Jul 1 2012, 09:34 AM.
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| brazen | Jul 1 2012, 09:17 AM Post #83 |
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That's not how it happened. The second Rafe and Carrie met it was said to be an instant connection and they got their office with no AC they were all hot and bothered over the other. IT had nothing to do with what Sami had done or hadn't done yet at that point. Carrie and Rafe had already started their song and dance. Sami has room to talk based on her husbands actions with her sister and her sister with her husband. Rafe has room to talk based on Sami's actions with EJ. Carrie has NO room to talk since she's cheating on her husband with her sisters husband wanting to leave Austin while Austin's clueless and she's a hypocrite saying anything to Sami about her behavior. She's no paragon of virtue, remember Mike? Remember her marriage to Lucas? She cheats in every marriage she's had. Edited by brazen, Jul 1 2012, 09:19 AM.
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| bonescastle | Jul 1 2012, 09:30 AM Post #84 |
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You're not getting it.Sami destroyed her marriage long before she had sex with EJ.She treated Rafe like crap since he resigned to protect her and long before Carrie was in the picture.She pushed him away and shut him down even before having sex with EJ.He just looked for comfort with someone else and just kissed Carrie once.But Sami destroyed her mariage long before the sex with EJ and before Carrie was in the picture.Carrie is totally irrelevant.The problems between Safe were there long before Carrie came along but Rafe was there for Sami no matter what. |
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| brazen | Jul 1 2012, 09:36 AM Post #85 |
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:lol: Ok, so Rafe's allowed to cheat with Sami's sister and it's all Sami's fault for not patting him on the head enough. |
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| bonescastle | Jul 1 2012, 09:41 AM Post #86 |
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No.It's Sami' s fault for taking him for granted and never appreciate anything he's ever done for her.What I'm saying is that Rafe was head over heels in love with Sami and wouldn't even have looked at Carrie if Sami hadn't treated him the way she did.This is the man who did everything for Sami,never failed her,droped his job to protect her,accepted her the way she was and there,she treated him like crap.And despite of all that,he still didn't have sex with Carrie. And what woman in love with her husband can have sex with the man who does to her husband what EJ did to Rafe?When someone does to a person you love or even just care about what EJ did to Rafe,you either hate/depise that person,try to get revenge/justice,or try to avoid thst someone.Sami has sex with them.What does it say about her feelings for her husband?Sami acting like a jealous/hurt wife is pur hypocrisie because she couldn't care less about Rafe.Her ego just can't take it. Edited by bonescastle, Jul 1 2012, 10:48 AM.
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| The Room Stops | Jul 1 2012, 11:31 AM Post #87 |
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Has Carrie blamed Sami for her falling in love with Rafe? She's said Sami's actions ruined her own marriage. Which is abso-f*cking-lutely true. |
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| amb2kool | Jul 1 2012, 11:35 AM Post #88 |
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i think austin should take the baby and go back to switzerland when it's born and leave carrie at salem. |
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| bonescastle | Jul 1 2012, 11:41 AM Post #89 |
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I disagree.He can be mad at Carrie all he wants but he has no right to take her baby away from her.She's not a bad mother. |
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| The Room Stops | Jul 1 2012, 11:54 AM Post #90 |
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I like that your whole post is nicely written up and readable, even though it's long - well done :) I agree that it's out of character for Marlena. It's not even about her still accepting Rafe (she certainly made it known to Mike she did not approve back in 98), it's about the fact that Marlena was always Austin's champion. She fought for him when Carrie first fell in love with him, and she continued to fight for Austin and Carrie's love when they had to fight for it because of Sami. Because Marlena loves Austin, and she loves the way Austin loves her daughter. That matters to a mother. She saw past the boxer/older/looks like a broken soul part and saw the Austin that Carrie saw. And the way you saw Sami in that episode is how I've been seeing her for years. Can't blame me for hating the character, can you? I started watching right as the Sami spewing stuff at Marlena was starting, so I've watched it all and I'm really tired of it. Sami's used Marlena's one, really big mistake as an excuse for why she is how she is, and it's time to just move on. It's not so much that Sami doesn't have a right to be mad at Rafe and Carrie for kissing, it's that she has absolutely no insight that SHE is not innocent. That's Sami 101. Sami is never at fault in her own eyes, everybody else is. And she uses it to the hilt. Nice little reflection here ;) |
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| The Room Stops | Jul 1 2012, 11:54 AM Post #91 |
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No. People who cheat are always at fault. Take John & Marlena's affair. Certainly their fault. There were things that happened in the past that opened up to that situation (ie: Stefano taking Roman, John coming to town, John & Marlena falling love, getting married, Marlena dying, returning, Roman returning and J&M being sort of forced to break up because they weren't supposed to love each other). It doesn't excuse their actions, but it explains why it happened. But they are still responsible for the sexual parts. They could have left Roman and Isabella, and then taken the consequenses that would have come with that. But they did what they believed to be right for their family at the time, what was expected of them, and then they have to live with the consequences of that. Their consequence was that they never stopped loving each other, had an affair, concieved a child and Marlena's marriage to Roman was broken. I blame Carrie and Rafe for how they're acting (and the writing sucks too, I blame that too). Sami is not responsible for how they are acting. There are ways to have two people have an affair and still let them be forgivable. They did it with J&M. John & Marlena tried to stay away for each other for a year and a half, then they made a mistake, they both assumed responsibility for it, and have paid for it since. Carrie and Rafe are acting reprehensibly. Unforgivable. They're not even trying, and Carrie's still cheating emotionally on Austin. But not on Sami. Sami has moved on from Rafe, she cheated on him, which ended their marriage. She let go of him and moved onto Lucas and EJ (depending on the week), and the minute she did, she no longer gets to play foul. Austin, however, does. Sami is not acting like Rafe is her husband, they're obviously in the process of divorce. Austin's helplessly in love with Carrie, still and he's also in the dark. He gets to throw stuff around and cry and yell. Sami has let go of that right. |
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| Tngerson1 | Jul 1 2012, 11:55 AM Post #92 |
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Yes I unfortunately I do think Carrie puts a stop to the lovemaking with Austin. Wonder what she says to stop making love to Austin? |
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| outrageous | Jul 1 2012, 12:49 PM Post #93 |
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Don't fight them. Don't fight them Cafe, just give in to your feelings. Then please go on a never ending cruise around the world. |
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| Kyrai | Jul 1 2012, 01:05 PM Post #94 |
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I'm not anti-Cafe so much as hating the way the story (for lack of a better word) played out. I like CC so would not want her to go on a never ending cruise. But I can't help wishing Rafe and Austin would. |
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| Ali_James | Jul 1 2012, 09:36 PM Post #95 |
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EJ to Sami: What? That we have this connection together, Samantha? Body and soul. It's forever. That's the truth of the matter.
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But you still want her with Lucas? Sami is wishy washy???? Carrie is dreaming of her sister's husband, while making love to her husband. She doesn't know what she wants, Rafe or Austin. Nicole kissed Rafe, dreamed of him, is now sleeping with Daniel, while having EJ rub her pregnant belly. EJ "wants" Nicole back, yet is always with Sami. Lucas tells Sami she has feelings for Rafe, next he is sleeping with her. But Sami is wishy washy. That whole group of 30+ characters is all over the place. She didn't say she wanted Rafe. I don't know many ppl would love their sister carrying their husband's child! |
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| elci525 | Jul 1 2012, 11:07 PM Post #96 |
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1) Do I want her with Lucas?? Yes, of course and absolutely in an ideal world. They are endgame to me, and always will be in my heart. So if I had my druthers, they would be together. It is my dream scenario, and Lumi is what I have loved most about the show in 16 or so years or watching. So I think I am allowed to want them together. In an ideal world of my own making. Do I want them together when Sami is acting the way she is?? No, of course not, and that is why the past week or so has made me so incredibly sad. What I WANT is to see Sami stop vacillating and just be with him. But given that she seems to be heading into full vacillation mode, I regretfully have to say that I'd rather them apart - if Lumi is going to be shown together but not together. Lucas deserves better. So there's my answer to that. 2) I am not going to discuss Nicole because I didn't mention her in my post and I don't really have opinions about her, her love life, etc. 3) Now onto Sami. Look, I am not saying Carrie is blameless here - I have said as much in other posts in this very thread. She is "conflicted," her conflict is annoying, eye-rolling, and kind of boring, given that it seems oh-so familiar (oh, there are all these men who love me, what ever will I do, someone help me). Carrie is no angel; she committed adultery long before and twice as many times as Sami. But I am talking about Sami being all over the place -- Carrie's "wishy-washiness" does not negate or justify Sami's. I am talking about Sami in these scenes being intolerably insufferable when I never thought she could be (b/c I have pretty much always defended her, and pretty much always sided with her over Carrie). Sami can feel any damn way she wants to; you might think she has every right to be angry with Carrie for her involvement with Rafe. Fine, and I agree she technically does. But what I feel, and maybe this is just completely irrational, but what I feel is that Sami forfeited the right to care. She doesn't need to say she "wants Rafe" for me to feel like she is still being portrayed as feeling like she is entitled to something from him, when she has supposedly moved on with Lucas, and is making eyes at EJ. So I guess I feel like Rafe doesn't owe her a damn thing. She cheated on him, with EJ OF ALL PEOPLE, lied about it, then had the audacity to kick him out knowing full well she had cheated on him with EJ, OF ALL PEOPLE. If I hate Carrie's sanctimony, I have to hate Sami's in that instance too. And I hated it in Monday's scenes. She can get angry, she can feel so justified in her indignation and petulant behavior, she can request whatever she wants from Rafe, Marlena and Carrie, and maybe she has some reason to do so. But I don't have to like or fully agree with her. She is still not taking FULL accountability for the mistakes she made; she is still playing victim; and she is still deflecting onto others, namely Marlena. And as I said in my original post, that she launches the same tirades against Marlena after 20 years.....I mean, I have given Sami the benefit of the doubt pretty much always. But enough is enough. And after watching the scenes, I am especially assured that she is just too consumed by her indignation to be self-aware for more than two seconds. Yes, Carrie is acting like an annoying twit too, which is why I want her to just leave already so that something of Caustin can be salvaged. Again, re: Nicole, I have no opinion really, so I am not going to say much. EJ is back and forth, but I have strong opinions as to why that is. As for Lucas telling Sami she has feelings for Rafe or EJ, and then sleeping with her - well, that is not really vacillating; that is more like his being a fool in love and, unless Sami comes to her senses soon, for his sake I hope he just gets out while he still can. You are right that the 30s crowd is all over the place, and I blame the MarDar "insta-"/fan-base writing for a lot of that. But my post was about my feelings for Sami. On the one hand, her tantrum is in character for Sami. On the other hand, she seems to have been regressed a bit in order to support this across-the-board writing. In either case, it doesn't change the way I feel about how her character has been acting. Her unreasonableness, her callousness, her irrationality and indignation -- all of this affects me more than anything about Carries does, mainly because I have always liked Sami more than I have Carrie. So that is why I expressed my opinions about her. Yes, Sami is wishy-washy, and the merry-go-round is making me sick. Edited by elci525, Jul 2 2012, 06:58 AM.
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| DesignatedShelley | Jul 2 2012, 07:46 AM Post #97 |
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I can forgive Carrie and Rafe for having feelings for each other and having an emotional affair. I don't like it, but I can forgive. But my problem is I can't buy it in the first place. I don't see amazing chemistry between CC and GG, just good enough chemistry, and what it ends up looking like to me is that Carrie is not sure she's in love with Austin any more and can't bring herself to admit it. Rafe is almost just an excuse. On Rafe's side, I don't know what to think other than REBOUND. And if they played it like that, it would be good, adult character drama. But they're playing it like Carrie/Rafe Twu Wuv and that's what makes this a chore. I don't care about their angst because it feels artificial. I am thinking they're rewinding a bit in the drama so that Austin can be allowed to be more angry about things. It might be a whirlwind three weeks for C&A, or it might just peter out with a lot of unresolved issues. |
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| gabrielle | Jul 2 2012, 07:06 PM Post #98 |
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i dont know what is worse the rafe carrie storyline right now, or the hope steffy liam storyline on bold and beautiful. |
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| ScorpioQueen | Jul 2 2012, 07:17 PM Post #99 |
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I actually like Carrie and Rafe but since Caustin will presumably be leaving town soon I've lost all interest in this storyline... and show for that matter. |
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| jackjenfan | Jul 2 2012, 08:23 PM Post #100 |
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I just have stopped getting invested in the story lines lately. Every single character is all over the place. Sami is with Lucus but she can't get away from EJ or Rafe. Nicole wants Rafe then wants Daniel the next week while still obviously having feelings for EJ all while being pregnant. The vets have pretty much been reduced to secondary characters. If your character doesn`t circle around Rafe or EJ or Daniel you are screwed for air time. I have lost interest in Days after they destroyed Jack and Jennifer for me and left me to watch the women of the show fall for three men only. |
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