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Wednesday, July 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Jul 3 2012, 01:19 PM (6,394 Views)
gailwinters
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I thought Christie Clark did a superb job in showing her unhappiness and her self loathing in this episode. I don't like it that she's "settling" for Austin because she's pregnant, but I applaud her acting. Even Galen managed to show some emotion in those scenes. I think the two of them do have a little spark that I have enjoyed watching.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

gailwinters
Jul 5 2012, 05:48 AM
I thought Christie Clark did a superb job in showing her unhappiness and her self loathing in this episode. I don't like it that she's "settling" for Austin because she's pregnant, but I applaud her acting. Even Galen managed to show some emotion in those scenes. I think the two of them do have a little spark that I have enjoyed watching.
I've always liked Christie, she's a pretty good actress. Too bad that Carrie was completely wasted this time around. They could have given her any other story...but she ends up with this and now she's gone.
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six
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CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
six
Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM
CarlD2
Jul 4 2012, 12:43 PM
six
Jul 4 2012, 12:10 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not sure where the charming part comes in. He's rude and unpleasant to everyone he meets, aside from Marlena. He only shows other emotions when it's time to smirk at EJ. The show knew how to build up some relationships with EJ and various characters which would offset his villainous actions. I don't see that with Will; maybe someone decided that was boring, I don't know. If he weren't in scenes with EJ I wonder if anyone would even care at this point.
I like Will in almost every scene that he's in. The only person he's actively rude to is Sami, who has it coming in spades, so it's surprising to me that anyone thinks he's only kind to Marlena. He's downright sweet with Sonny. He's fine with Lucas as long as they're not on the subject of Sami. He was great with John a week or two ago...

As for the sexual undertones, I see them and they're very welcome. I could see it being in a character like EJ's nature to use sexual attraction to keep Will off balance and get under his skin, and imo, Will likes it. It wouldn't even reach the top ten most scandalous things on soaps, as long as they don't act on it, which they certainly won't. It's not like EJ raised Will.
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
Edited by six, Jul 5 2012, 07:29 AM.
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Ali_James
EJ to Sami: What? That we have this connection together, Samantha? Body and soul. It's forever. That's the truth of the matter.

I think Will has many interesting relationships on the show.

With Sami, Marlena. The DiMeras. His father. Sonny. All different. But just like Sami, he also has that side to him that he wants what he wants, when he wants it. Mother and son are very much alike in many ways ! :wub:
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
six
Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM
CarlD2
Jul 4 2012, 12:43 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I like Will in almost every scene that he's in. The only person he's actively rude to is Sami, who has it coming in spades, so it's surprising to me that anyone thinks he's only kind to Marlena. He's downright sweet with Sonny. He's fine with Lucas as long as they're not on the subject of Sami. He was great with John a week or two ago...

As for the sexual undertones, I see them and they're very welcome. I could see it being in a character like EJ's nature to use sexual attraction to keep Will off balance and get under his skin, and imo, Will likes it. It wouldn't even reach the top ten most scandalous things on soaps, as long as they don't act on it, which they certainly won't. It's not like EJ raised Will.
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
Willena scenes are just something MarDar came up with and it still seems strange to me that with Kate in town, Will would solely go to Marlena who he wasn't always that close to for support. I think after Kate came clean telling him she knew about his homosexuality and was fine with it, he should have shifted his talks, chats or what not to her more. It would have played into their long history as the grandmother that was most attached to Will always. I highly doubt that TomSell will focus so much on Willena...that was something of MarDar's creation.....
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elci525
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six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
six
Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM
CarlD2
Jul 4 2012, 12:43 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I like Will in almost every scene that he's in. The only person he's actively rude to is Sami, who has it coming in spades, so it's surprising to me that anyone thinks he's only kind to Marlena. He's downright sweet with Sonny. He's fine with Lucas as long as they're not on the subject of Sami. He was great with John a week or two ago...

As for the sexual undertones, I see them and they're very welcome. I could see it being in a character like EJ's nature to use sexual attraction to keep Will off balance and get under his skin, and imo, Will likes it. It wouldn't even reach the top ten most scandalous things on soaps, as long as they don't act on it, which they certainly won't. It's not like EJ raised Will.
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I agree that Will has come off as rude, oh-so-satisfied, and dismissive in scenes lately - but I guess that is a consequence of this upping/intensifying of Ejill. I think he is very rude and dismissive to Sonny. To his mother, well always. To his dad too, but again, that is especially lately as he is being defensive or indignant about his association with EJ. I used to love his scenes with Marlena, but I haven't seen too many of those lately (there was that one a few weeks ago where he did that strange model pose in the middle of the living room, I think it was the day of Stefano's funeral). The scenes in the pub after the news of his being gay was disclosed - those were sweet if hokey, but I liked John's hokeyness and Will seemed genuinely relieved/loved. And that was nice. But that was all of two minutes.

I do like EJill b/c it involves Will in lots of storylines, opens up opportunities to have interesting interactions and relationships with more characters than just his parents and teens. And as a Horton, game-changing progeny of my fave couple of all-time :wub: , and an up-and-coming potential lead/legacy character, that seems about right. But I do feel like some of those relationships have been back-burnered, a bit, in favor of highlighting Ejill. Which is fine - that is what the focus in Will's life is right now. But I have to agree that in majority of the scenes, lately, where he is not with EJ (though admittedly those are pretty few) - he acts like a shit. And I also agree that he doesn't seem to care unless he can go be with EJ. This could very well be intentional, parroting EJ as he is, but I have noticed it and I don't love it.
Edited by elci525, Jul 5 2012, 07:49 AM.
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JamaicanBeauty7
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lysie
Jul 4 2012, 11:07 PM
Ali_James
Jul 4 2012, 09:30 PM
Ej_Sami
Jul 4 2012, 07:41 PM
Carrie and Rafe were so disgusting(this word truly describes the both of them) in today's episode. Poor stupid Austin. He is being made the fool. How many times are we gong to be subjected to these "talks" between Cafe. They are saying the same shit EVERYTIME they talk. Will wants to be like EJ :wub: . Wish Andrew will kill the red headed twit already. Getting tired of her ass again..


I am beyond tired of these 2, separately and together, their repetitive dialogues. I think they are very boring to watch. Can't we see others too? They have now been saying the same things since before May Sweeps. Where are J&J, Victor? I am also really tired of the teens, I think they are boring and insignificant.
I don't disagree that their scenes are repetitive, but Christie Clark was only in five episodes last month. We have been seeing people other than Cafe. The "teens" were all only in 8 episodes and under. These characters having too much screen time is not a real issue.
Part of the real problem, at least for me, is repetitive dialogue. They may not be on often but if they having the same boring conversations when they are on, and this occurs several times, it feels like they are on more. The show needs to work on movement as a whole, regardless of how often characters are on screen. For ex. it feels like Cafe are on too much for my liking because they only seem to talk about how they can't be together b/c she's preggers. If they didn't change their clothes and interact with others I would believe this is one continuous conversation in the longest Salem day ever. Movement only seems to happen now because CC was leaving; I shudder to think how long this would continue if she wasn't going.
Edited by JamaicanBeauty7, Jul 5 2012, 08:33 AM.
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six
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elci525
Jul 5 2012, 07:47 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
six
Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I agree that Will has come off as rude, oh-so-satisfied, and dismissive in scenes lately - but I guess that is a consequence of this upping/intensifying of Ejill. I think he is very rude and dismissive to Sonny. To his mother, well always. To his dad too, but again, that is especially lately as he is being defensive or indignant about his association with EJ. I used to love his scenes with Marlena, but I haven't seen too many of those lately (there was that one a few weeks ago where he did that strange model pose in the middle of the living room, I think it was the day of Stefano's funeral). The scenes in the pub after the news of his being gay was disclosed - those were sweet if hokey, but I liked John's hokeyness and Will seemed genuinely relieved/loved. And that was nice. But that was all of two minutes.

I do agree that he gets dismissive when people tell him he's wrong to work with EJ, but on the other side of the coin, they dismiss his feelings on the matter too. So at worst, they'd all be rude. Fortunately for Wilson, they talk about other things the majority of the time, so I have to disagree with the notion that Will is rude all, or even most of the time he's not dealing with EJ.

As for Wilena and the new writers, I think it's too soon to make a guess about what they'll do, because the relationship itself isn't a mardar creation. They did, of course, make them very close, but Will will most likely always share scenes with his grandmother, because she's his grandmother. It's fine for me if they pull back though. They were never my favorite, but a lot of people clearly loved them.
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reagon


I don't find anything appealing about EJ and Will anymore and I enjoyed them months ago. Talk about repetitive. And Chandler Massey is no James Scott and trying to turn this character and limited actor into that is failing. I don't even get the sexual undertones anymore it's a copout because we all know Days is never going there so who cares anymore. Chandler can't play cunning and charming and villainous all combined. I don't think James Scott is a very good actor but he makes the material he is given workable.
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lysie


JamaicanBeauty7
Jul 5 2012, 08:32 AM
lysie
Jul 4 2012, 11:07 PM
Ali_James
Jul 4 2012, 09:30 PM
Ej_Sami
Jul 4 2012, 07:41 PM
Carrie and Rafe were so disgusting(this word truly describes the both of them) in today's episode. Poor stupid Austin. He is being made the fool. How many times are we gong to be subjected to these "talks" between Cafe. They are saying the same shit EVERYTIME they talk. Will wants to be like EJ :wub: . Wish Andrew will kill the red headed twit already. Getting tired of her ass again..


I am beyond tired of these 2, separately and together, their repetitive dialogues. I think they are very boring to watch. Can't we see others too? They have now been saying the same things since before May Sweeps. Where are J&J, Victor? I am also really tired of the teens, I think they are boring and insignificant.
I don't disagree that their scenes are repetitive, but Christie Clark was only in five episodes last month. We have been seeing people other than Cafe. The "teens" were all only in 8 episodes and under. These characters having too much screen time is not a real issue.
Part of the real problem, at least for me, is repetitive dialogue. They may not be on often but if they having the same boring conversations when they are on, and this occurs several times, it feels like they are on more. The show needs to work on movement as a whole, regardless of how often characters are on screen. For ex. it feels like Cafe are on too much for my liking because they only seem to talk about how they can't be together b/c she's preggers. If they didn't change their clothes and interact with others I would believe this is one continuous conversation in the longest Salem day ever. Movement only seems to happen now because CC was leaving; I shudder to think how long this would continue if she wasn't going.
The thing is, EJ and Will and Sami and Rafe and Nicole are literally on all the time and they're having the same conversations over and over too. I dont disagree about cafe but they have only done this a few times in the last month while the other characters have done it a few times a week for the last month.

But my original response was to "can't we see others?" We ARE seeing others. Carrie has barely been on. We've been watching others in repetitive conversations a whole heck of a lot more than we've been watching cafe. Carrie and Rafe as a pairing haven't taken up much screentime at all since May. They're not the ones we need a break from. We got a break.
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elci525
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six
Jul 5 2012, 08:33 AM
elci525
Jul 5 2012, 07:47 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepIf you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I agree that Will has come off as rude, oh-so-satisfied, and dismissive in scenes lately - but I guess that is a consequence of this upping/intensifying of Ejill. I think he is very rude and dismissive to Sonny. To his mother, well always. To his dad too, but again, that is especially lately as he is being defensive or indignant about his association with EJ. I used to love his scenes with Marlena, but I haven't seen too many of those lately (there was that one a few weeks ago where he did that strange model pose in the middle of the living room, I think it was the day of Stefano's funeral). The scenes in the pub after the news of his being gay was disclosed - those were sweet if hokey, but I liked John's hokeyness and Will seemed genuinely relieved/loved. And that was nice. But that was all of two minutes.

I do agree that he gets dismissive when people tell him he's wrong to work with EJ, but on the other side of the coin, they dismiss his feelings on the matter too. So at worst, they'd all be rude. Fortunately for Wilson, they talk about other things the majority of the time, so I have to disagree with the notion that Will is rude all, or even most of the time he's not dealing with EJ.

As for Wilena and the new writers, I think it's too soon to make a guess about what they'll do, because the relationship itself isn't a mardar creation. They did, of course, make them very close, but Will will most likely always share scenes with his grandmother, because she's his grandmother. It's fine for me if they pull back though. They were never my favorite, but a lot of people clearly loved them.
See, and I disagree they are dismissive. They are critical and challenge Will and think it's a bad idea, and want to talk about it. But I suppose Will just doesn't want to hear it, or he's heard everything he want to hear, so he brushes them off. Not blaming him, necessarily, but it rubs me the wrong way. And I feel like Wilson have been talking a lot about EJ lately, not sure I can agree they talk about other things most of the time (seems evenly divided between Will being gay, news of Will being gay, and EJ). And he is not rude to Sonny every second of their conversations - there are just some glaring moments that stand out to me. Again, I am not saying I don't understand why Will might be acting this way -- wanting to assert his independence, wanting to do what he wants to do, wanting not to be lectured, starting to pick up on behaviors from EJ, etc. I guess he would be acting more like a jerk now. So I am just saying I am noticing the upped jerkiness, and it doesn't thrill me. His relationships are pretty EJ-focused at the moment, which is fine - that is the s/l du jour - but again, I don't love it. And his cockiness bothers me too It's entertaining to some extent, I like Will at least momentarily getting one up over EJ, his last line to him on Weds was great, although I may have gone with, "Let's make sure this is clear. I say JUMP, and you say what now??" But the arrogance is unappealing on Will too, which is why I am just waiting for the day that something happens to knock him down a few pegs.
Edited by elci525, Jul 5 2012, 09:07 AM.
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six
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elci525
Jul 5 2012, 08:47 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 08:33 AM
elci525
Jul 5 2012, 07:47 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepIf you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
I agree that Will has come off as rude, oh-so-satisfied, and dismissive in scenes lately - but I guess that is a consequence of this upping/intensifying of Ejill. I think he is very rude and dismissive to Sonny. To his mother, well always. To his dad too, but again, that is especially lately as he is being defensive or indignant about his association with EJ. I used to love his scenes with Marlena, but I haven't seen too many of those lately (there was that one a few weeks ago where he did that strange model pose in the middle of the living room, I think it was the day of Stefano's funeral). The scenes in the pub after the news of his being gay was disclosed - those were sweet if hokey, but I liked John's hokeyness and Will seemed genuinely relieved/loved. And that was nice. But that was all of two minutes.

I do agree that he gets dismissive when people tell him he's wrong to work with EJ, but on the other side of the coin, they dismiss his feelings on the matter too. So at worst, they'd all be rude. Fortunately for Wilson, they talk about other things the majority of the time, so I have to disagree with the notion that Will is rude all, or even most of the time he's not dealing with EJ.

As for Wilena and the new writers, I think it's too soon to make a guess about what they'll do, because the relationship itself isn't a mardar creation. They did, of course, make them very close, but Will will most likely always share scenes with his grandmother, because she's his grandmother. It's fine for me if they pull back though. They were never my favorite, but a lot of people clearly loved them.
See, and I disagree they are dismissive. They are critical and challenge Will and think it's a bad idea, and want to talk about it. But I suppose Will just doesn't want to hear it, or he's heard everything he want to hear, so he brushes them off. Not blaming him, necessarily, but it rubs me the wrong way. And I feel like Wilson have been talking a lot about EJ lately, not sure I can agree they talk about other things most of the time (seems evenly divided between Will being gay, news of Will being gay, and EJ). And he is not rude to Sonny every second of their conversations - there are just some glaring moments that stand out to me. Again, I am not saying I don't understand why Will might be acting this way -- wanting to assert his independence, wanting to do what he wants to do, wanting not to be lectured, starting to pick up on behaviors from EJ, etc. I guess he would be acting more like a jerk now. So I am just saying I am noticing the upped jerkiness, and it doesn't thrill me. His relationships are pretty EJ-focused at the moment, which is fine - that is the s/l du jour - but again, I don't love it. And his cockiness bothers me too - which is why I am just waiting for the day that something happens to knock Will down a few pegs.
I don't think they want to have a talk about it, so much as they look for openings to pull out their soapbox. The thing is, at this point, everyone knows how everyone else feels on the matter and until something new happens, there isn't anything left to discuss (eta: I'm talking about Will and his friend/family here, not the board discussions lol). While their concerns are valid, once you keep harping on someone who's not living their life the way you feel they should, I think you've become dismissive of their choices, although I can understand why they all feel the way that they do. The other problem is that these particular people have all stepped over the same line in the sand that Will has, because they're all happily forging connections with criminals. I can see it being a lot more troubling to them because Will is working in very close proximity to EJ, but they're all engaging in various levels of hypocrisy, here.

I think Wilson spend a lot more time talking about Will being gay than they do about EJ.
Edited by six, Jul 5 2012, 09:35 AM.
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CarlD2
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six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
six
Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM
CarlD2
Jul 4 2012, 12:43 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I like Will in almost every scene that he's in. The only person he's actively rude to is Sami, who has it coming in spades, so it's surprising to me that anyone thinks he's only kind to Marlena. He's downright sweet with Sonny. He's fine with Lucas as long as they're not on the subject of Sami. He was great with John a week or two ago...

As for the sexual undertones, I see them and they're very welcome. I could see it being in a character like EJ's nature to use sexual attraction to keep Will off balance and get under his skin, and imo, Will likes it. It wouldn't even reach the top ten most scandalous things on soaps, as long as they don't act on it, which they certainly won't. It's not like EJ raised Will.
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I think people look forward to a lot with Will which isn't ever delivered. People who were interested in Sonny/Will have spent months even wondering whether Sonny is still on the show.

I just don't know what Will would do if EJ wasn't on the show. He would tell Sami what a whore she is, and then complain to Sonny and Marlena about how Sami is a whore, then go to a gay bar offcamera. Other than that any development for the character has escaped me. I think that's one of the reasons Will/EJ got interest in the first place - Will's entire storyline for a year outside of this has been throwing fits over nothing.

If nothing else I just wish I knew what it meant when Will says he wants to be like EJ. EJ goes from saint to Satan depending on the writing. If the show clarified exactly what Will is going to do and what EJ represents to him, and how this relationship has supposedly changed Will (since Will seems the same to me as he was when he was trashing kitchens and shoving Sami and not interacting with EJ), I think it would help.
Edited by CarlD2, Jul 5 2012, 09:31 AM.
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Honeybees
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Lucas was actually the person who had the most compassion and understanding about why Will was working for EJ - and there was a nice callback to Lucas's history with the DiMera family - while at the same time Lucas went all bull in china shop to get Will away from EJ. But I appreciated that he got where Will was coming from and realized eventually that the more they tried to get Will to stop working for EJ, the more he'd want to. I like EJill, and I love that Will is playing with fire and turning the tables, but I really wish Lucas was more involved in the story.

And I do think they are setting Will up for some major problems and possibly a serious fall, I am curious how this will effect a Wilson romance if and when it happens. If you look back at Nuke, it often got very Perils of Pauline with them being kidnapped or put in the hospital for drama because essentially they were two really good guys who, once Noah got over his internalized homophobia, loved each other. Kish weren't on long enough for much conflict once Fish came out. But Will and Sonny have the potential for being a gay couple whose problems do not result from their gayness but rather one partner's self-destructive, arrogant streak. I think there's a great deal of potential soapiness there if the writers choose to exploit it.

But would I would like to see is Sonny at least suspect Will has a crush on EJ and call him out on it. The only downside would be that Sonny needs his own conflict or he's always going to end up the one cleaning up Will's mess, emotional and otherwise.
Edited by Honeybees, Jul 5 2012, 09:35 AM.
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elci525
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six
Jul 5 2012, 09:05 AM
elci525
Jul 5 2012, 08:47 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 08:33 AM
elci525
Jul 5 2012, 07:47 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepIf you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
I do agree that he gets dismissive when people tell him he's wrong to work with EJ, but on the other side of the coin, they dismiss his feelings on the matter too. So at worst, they'd all be rude. Fortunately for Wilson, they talk about other things the majority of the time, so I have to disagree with the notion that Will is rude all, or even most of the time he's not dealing with EJ.

As for Wilena and the new writers, I think it's too soon to make a guess about what they'll do, because the relationship itself isn't a mardar creation. They did, of course, make them very close, but Will will most likely always share scenes with his grandmother, because she's his grandmother. It's fine for me if they pull back though. They were never my favorite, but a lot of people clearly loved them.
See, and I disagree they are dismissive. They are critical and challenge Will and think it's a bad idea, and want to talk about it. But I suppose Will just doesn't want to hear it, or he's heard everything he want to hear, so he brushes them off. Not blaming him, necessarily, but it rubs me the wrong way. And I feel like Wilson have been talking a lot about EJ lately, not sure I can agree they talk about other things most of the time (seems evenly divided between Will being gay, news of Will being gay, and EJ). And he is not rude to Sonny every second of their conversations - there are just some glaring moments that stand out to me. Again, I am not saying I don't understand why Will might be acting this way -- wanting to assert his independence, wanting to do what he wants to do, wanting not to be lectured, starting to pick up on behaviors from EJ, etc. I guess he would be acting more like a jerk now. So I am just saying I am noticing the upped jerkiness, and it doesn't thrill me. His relationships are pretty EJ-focused at the moment, which is fine - that is the s/l du jour - but again, I don't love it. And his cockiness bothers me too - which is why I am just waiting for the day that something happens to knock Will down a few pegs.
I don't think they want to have a talk about it, so much as they look for openings to pull out their soapbox. The thing is, at this point, everyone knows how everyone else feels on the matter and until something new happens, there isn't anything left to discuss. While their concerns are valid, once you keep harping on someone who's not living their life the way you feel they should, I think you've become dismissive of their choices, although I can understand why they all feel the way that they do. The other problem is that these particular people have all stepped over the same line in the sand that Will has, because they're all happily forging connections with criminals. I can see it being a lot more troubling to them because Will is working in very close proximity to EJ, but they're all engaging in various levels of hypocrisy, here.

I think Wilson spend a lot more time talking about Will being gay than they do about EJ.
Well, in terms of the whole scope of what's been the Wilson relationship thus far, yes of course you are right - they have discussed Will being gay far more than they have EJ. I am talking about the last week or so. This is the time frame for my noticing Will's upped rudeness - and again, I understand it. I've just don't like it and that is all I am really saying.

As for the hypocrisy surrounding Will, you are not wrong. Sami and Lucas are working for DE; Sami gladly associated with EJ; Lucas worked for Tony; Marlena, John, etc. Lots of criminal associations. But still, the hypocrisy doesn't bother me. If Will were working with Sami and Lucas at CW, I don't think they would be taking issue with that. I think it IS the very fact that he is working in such, such close association with EJ that has them worried. And whether they have been there before or not, to be concerned that their son, grandson, friend, whatever is going down a similar path is understandably disconcerting. There is only so much they can do, though. I agree. I understand the resistance and the opposition - but yes, let Will just make his choices and I hope they blow up in his smirky face.

I even said that Will brushing people off is b/c he doesn't want to hear what they have to say, and he is entitled to do that. There is only so much more that can be said, and Will's mind is made up. And he is young and thinks he got it all figured out, so it's really just the typical young person's "it's-my-life-let-me-live-it-what-do-you-know" schtick. Nothing surprising there.

It really is just that lately, I have found very little about Will that's charming or all that likable. So I am agreeing with posts that have said as much. It's fun to see him try to match wits with EJ and flex this little muscle of his, but that doesn't do much for me. Not like I thought it would. He is smug now, and it's this youthful arrogance that bothers me. Whether it's justified or appropriate or whatever, I just don't like it. I just hope something happens to strike down the hubris in a pretty fantastically epic way. I wanted EJill b/c I wanted to see Will conflicted - so I am just waiting for some of that struggle to start happening.
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mer4santo
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CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 09:30 AM
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Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
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Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM

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I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I think people look forward to a lot with Will which isn't ever delivered. People who were interested in Sonny/Will have spent months even wondering whether Sonny is still on the show.

I just don't know what Will would do if EJ wasn't on the show. He would tell Sami what a whore she is, and then complain to Sonny and Marlena about how Sami is a whore, then go to a gay bar offcamera. Other than that any development for the character has escaped me. I think that's one of the reasons Will/EJ got interest in the first place - Will's entire storyline for a year outside of this has been throwing fits over nothing.

If nothing else I just wish I knew what it meant when Will says he wants to be like EJ. EJ goes from saint to Satan depending on the writing. If the show clarified exactly what Will is going to do and what EJ represents to him, and how this relationship has supposedly changed Will (since Will seems the same to me as he was when he was trashing kitchens and shoving Sami and not interacting with EJ), I think it would help.
I took Will's flattery towards EJ as a coercing effort to get EJ to share secrets which will allow him to take EJ down.
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CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 09:30 AM
six
Jul 5 2012, 07:23 AM
CarlD2
Jul 5 2012, 12:30 AM
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Jul 4 2012, 03:48 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I think he's often very rude and dismissive with Sonny and Lucas. I get the impression that he just doesn't care unless he can go be with EJ. Since this is also the only aspect of the character that the show cares about, it takes away any rounding of his character.

I think the sexual undertones are mostly a copout. Will seems asexual to me when it is time for actual relationships (the scenes with Neil were awful and he has thinly veiled contempt for Sonny), so they have him throw out some double entendres with Will and EJ as a cover. If you take these away, what is left of Will? Does he serve any purpose or have an interesting relationship with anyone?
To you, apparently not, but since some people look forward to wilson and Willena scenes, for example, other people do feel that he has interesting relationships with people besides EJ. To each his own.
I think people look forward to a lot with Will which isn't ever delivered. People who were interested in Sonny/Will have spent months even wondering whether Sonny is still on the show.

I just don't know what Will would do if EJ wasn't on the show. He would tell Sami what a whore she is, and then complain to Sonny and Marlena about how Sami is a whore, then go to a gay bar offcamera. Other than that any development for the character has escaped me. I think that's one of the reasons Will/EJ got interest in the first place - Will's entire storyline for a year outside of this has been throwing fits over nothing.

If nothing else I just wish I knew what it meant when Will says he wants to be like EJ. EJ goes from saint to Satan depending on the writing. If the show clarified exactly what Will is going to do and what EJ represents to him, and how this relationship has supposedly changed Will (since Will seems the same to me as he was when he was trashing kitchens and shoving Sami and not interacting with EJ), I think it would help.
I would have agreed with your point on Sonny a few weeks ago, but we've been getting regular Sonny appearances for awhile now, which many people here are enjoying, and it's been spoiled that Sonny has a lot more scenes coming up. All the characters are pretty shallow, but Will has gotten more character development than most, imo. He's gone from standard good guy with a couple of breakdowns, to raging non stop over Sami, to accepting who he was, to wanting to be like EJ. ISTM that when he said he wanted to be like EJ and coveted power that he was talking about who EJ currently is; not BSC EJ, or race car EJ etc.

To elci, we're both talking about the same time frame. Yes, they discussed EJ, but I remember those scenes being mostly about how Will felt about being outed, what Will's family thought, how Brian felt about Will's choices, what Sonny thought Will should do, etc.

We mostly agree on the other topic - they do have to step back and let Will make his choices. Like I said, they have a good reason to be worried, but they've reached the point where it's rude to keep pushing it. In this case, one could make a convincing argument that protecting your loved one trumps being polite, but if that's the tack you take, you can't be surprised or upset when the other person responds in kind, because they feel their right to autonomy trumps their duty to respect your opinion.
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dc cubs
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I am so sick of Chandler's grins and smirks. Yes, yesterday Will got the upper hand so maybe one smirk would have been fine. However, he smirked throughout most of the show. I laughed when Will grabbed EJ's cigar as its like he is a kid who wants to play with the grown ups. I am tired of it and this EJ/Will stuff. Will should be hanging around with people his own age. They are finally showing him with Sonny more which should have been happening the whole time.
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CarlD2
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I agree we're seeing Sonny more now, I meant more a few months ago. Unfortunately I just don't know why Sonny would care about Will, and I get no indication that Will likes him or cares about him. I know this relationship isn't seen as "exciting" compared to Will's other stories, but there was a chance for at least a solid friendship. I don't know if that's possible now.

Quote:
 
I took Will's flattery towards EJ as a coercing effort to get EJ to share secrets which will allow him to take EJ down.


Mer4Santo, I think that would be interesting.

I think back to the Matthew Rose/Steve Owen relationship on Eastenders and I wish DAYS had borrowed a little of that.
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elci525
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Whatever the context of the EJ discussion, EJ was discussed, it's a topic of discussion between them (maybe even a source of discord), and in the last few scenes they have had, they haven't talked about Will being gay soo much more for me to think they talk about things other than Ej "a majority of the time". In the last week or so, that is. Not really sure how we got into this spiral of a discussion - I guess it's just that I don't agree with this "majority" label. So many of these debates boil down to semantics, don't they? ;) Eh, I am probably majorly to blame for the back-and-forth anyway.

Again, Will isn't rude to Sonny every second of their conversations. There were just a few moments, most recently in the Brady pub, and then also during their discussion in the HTS a few days back, where I wasn't too amused.

Let Will return the dismissal in kind with his fair amount of snark - that is fine. And if he doesn't want to give his loved one's warnings more than a second of consideration (if that) because he perceives it as hypocritical or irrelevant, that is fine too. Unwise maybe, but his prerogative. There is only so much others can do, as has been said, and at some point I guess they will have to stop, if anything b/c I don't want to hear the same dialogue for the next 7 weeks or whatever. But I don't take issue with the warnings or words of advice against Will working so closely with EJ continuing for a little while longer, especially as/if Will is seen to be entrenching himself deeper and deeper into that quagmire, and changing dramatically in a direction that is worrisome to some. This was part of the central fight or conflict over Will that made Ejill appealing at the start. It can't just be the same warning all the time though -that would be boring.

I think my objection is that I haven't seen Will conflicted about too much - he is just joy riding right now. And it's the smug attitude that bothers me more than any perceived rudeness or cutting people off or whatever. Although I guess that's all part of it. Again, this could just be a youthful thing, or he is power tripping right now so he is on a high. It just bothers me. Simple as that, and I want to see him put in a situation where he feels at least a modicum of regret or conflict. Maybe even shame, though that might be taking it a little far. It doesn't need to happen right away - let him enjoy the ride and continue to think he has everything figured out. Develop more of the black in the gray mixture. But I want to see some kind of fall. Maybe I am a terrible person for wanting it, but there it is.
Edited by elci525, Jul 5 2012, 11:16 AM.
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