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Thursday, July 5th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Jul 4 2012, 01:01 PM (6,052 Views)
LonePirate
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annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:20 PM
This show is skating around on the surface and is too lazy to actually build real relationships and real love stories.
I disagree. Take a look at Will and Sonny. They have been building their relationship for a year and they still haven't reached first base. That's a slow build relationship for any soap nowadays.
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lysie


LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 07:24 PM
annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:20 PM
This show is skating around on the surface and is too lazy to actually build real relationships and real love stories.
I disagree. Take a look at Will and Sonny. They have been building their relationship for a year and they still haven't reached first base. That's a slow build relationship for any soap nowadays.
I don't agree that they've been built up for a year. I think to even say they've been building them up since February would be too generous.
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annie21


lysie
Jul 5 2012, 07:26 PM
LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 07:24 PM
annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:20 PM
This show is skating around on the surface and is too lazy to actually build real relationships and real love stories.
I disagree. Take a look at Will and Sonny. They have been building their relationship for a year and they still haven't reached first base. That's a slow build relationship for any soap nowadays.
I don't agree that they've been built up for a year. I think to even say they've been building them up since February would be too generous.
Agreed. Will and Sonny only seem like a slow build because the show (the network?) has lacked the courage to really commit and tell an actual story. There has been no build.

Even so, Will's story has generally fared better than others because it's been more or less an actual story.

But when it comes to pairings -- of any kind, but especially the new pairings -- this show falls down every time.
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DesignatedShelley
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Oh my god. Abby and Cameron. How can I possibly even care.

(It was nice seeing Abby and Kayla together though. Other than that, and a nice Kayla & Abe conversation, zzzzzzzzzzzzz.)
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DesignatedShelley
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Oh and I have to say about Kayla/Abe - maybe my perspective is skewed, but I honestly don't feel that bad about it. Abe is a nice guy, and he and Kayla have actually known each other for a while. The friendship between the two is believable. And honestly, the fact that Abe is just "honest ol' Abe" means that the Steve/Kayla shipper in me doesn't feel all that threatened. I can't see them playing this like they're each other's new soul mates or something. At most it'd be like Maggie/Victor, where Mickey is still pretty much the love of Maggie's life regardless.

Now I'm not saying that Steve won't be trashed in this process, and of course I would hate it if that keeps happening. But the choice of Abe as Kayla's #2, honestly I would much rather Abe than Daniel or Rafe or Brady or something. Abe isn't a romance novel cover model, he's ... a nice guy who can provide companionship and affection. I'd rather watch a Steve and Kayla story, but since SN is not in the mood to come back, honestly I can't think of another character on canvas I'd rather put Kayla with.

Mike Horton would make sense if he was around, but honestly I think Mike would be a bigger threat to the S/K legacy than Abe.

That's just my $0.02, I don't necessarily mean that I think this will be a good story. But considering a "Kayla moves on from Steve" story, I'm pretty okay with the fact that they chose Abe to be that #2 guy, precisely because it's hard to believe that Abe could ever replace Steve. I never shipped Abe/Lexie all that hard but I was used to them as a fixture and I can't see Kayla replacing Lexie for Abe either.
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LonePirate
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annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:38 PM
lysie
Jul 5 2012, 07:26 PM
LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 07:24 PM
annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:20 PM
This show is skating around on the surface and is too lazy to actually build real relationships and real love stories.
I disagree. Take a look at Will and Sonny. They have been building their relationship for a year and they still haven't reached first base. That's a slow build relationship for any soap nowadays.
I don't agree that they've been built up for a year. I think to even say they've been building them up since February would be too generous.
Agreed. Will and Sonny only seem like a slow build because the show (the network?) has lacked the courage to really commit and tell an actual story. There has been no build.
When two characters go from not knowing each other to spending the next several months becoming friends and sharing considerable time with each other, I would consider that to be a slow build for a relationship, especially when one of them finally expresses feelings for the other. If they were a heterosexual couple with the same timeline, I don't think there would be any doubt this would be considered a slow build relationship. Even real life relationships don't move this slowly nowadays. Viewers who are expecting a slow build relationship like the ones from 10, 20 or 30 years ago are simply not going to find that any more. The soap storytelling model (and audiences) have changed too much to make that possible.
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DesignatedShelley
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If audiences are so different then how come these new relationships don't hit it big with them? People seem happy enough to move on 7 months later, nobody even misses most of them.
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Kriss4


I just watched the whole show, and surprise, surprise! I liked Abe and Kayla's conversation. Right now, there's no romance there. Just two friends talking about things. I think the fact that we KNOW how Days operates makes us figure where Abe and Kayla might be going, and heck, who'd be ready for that? But the scenes themselves were good.

I also liked Kayla and Abby's conversation. I thought it was a nice one. I appreciated the fact that they even had scenes, and I liked what Kayla had to say. I just think it's too soon for me to care much about Abby and Cameron as a pairing.

I wonder why Days moves at breakneck speed?

But hey...I did like the scenes. But then, I admittedly am biased because I love Kayla.

Edited by Kriss4, Jul 5 2012, 08:41 PM.
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annie21


LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 08:11 PM
annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:38 PM
lysie
Jul 5 2012, 07:26 PM
LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 07:24 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't agree that they've been built up for a year. I think to even say they've been building them up since February would be too generous.
Agreed. Will and Sonny only seem like a slow build because the show (the network?) has lacked the courage to really commit and tell an actual story. There has been no build.
When two characters go from not knowing each other to spending the next several months becoming friends and sharing considerable time with each other, I would consider that to be a slow build for a relationship, especially when one of them finally expresses feelings for the other. If they were a heterosexual couple with the same timeline, I don't think there would be any doubt this would be considered a slow build relationship. Even real life relationships don't move this slowly nowadays. Viewers who are expecting a slow build relationship like the ones from 10, 20 or 30 years ago are simply not going to find that any more. The soap storytelling model (and audiences) have changed too much to make that possible.
It's true that, as relationships on this show go, the one between Will and Sonny has fared much better than most. I would argue that it is due more to neglect on the part of the writers rather than intent, but whatever the reason, it certainly has been a refreshing contrast to the insta-pairings that are running rampant everywhre else in Salem.

But, while many viewers have been shipping WilSon, it hasn't always been clear that the show has been headed in that direction. Months and months have gone by where Sonny hasn't been on at all. And, while we've learned a lot about Will lately, other than the fact that he can own and operate a coffee shop, do we really know that much more about Sonny now than we did a year ago? What are his flaws, his likes and dislikes, his defining character traits? The two have yet to face any obstacles or have any angst between them. Other than Will's coming out story, which has occurred with little to no interaction with Sonny, there has been no internal or external conflict that usually accompanies the "build" of a romantic pairing.

Still, whatever, let's concede that it's an example of a slow-build relationship -- and it can be the exception that proves the rule I was postulating. I, for one, would like to see WilSon get a good love story that is worth the wait. (But, with these writers, I'm not holding my breath.)

As for your last three sentences, I strongly disagree. While Days appears to adhere to that way of thinking, there are lots of examples in soaps and primetime where the angst between a pairing is carefully constructed and drawn out -- for a few months at least. On the contrary, Daniel and Nicole randomly hooked up a week or so ago and are already talking about being in love. Daniel and Jennifer had three dates before they slept together, and then were said to have a great and enduring love. Abby was in love with Chad. Then a few weeks later, she's head over heels crazy in love with Austin. And a few DAYS after that, she's smitten with Cam. It's shallow and superficial and makes everyone involved look fickle and majorly unlikeable.

This is what I object to. Hooking up and having sex is one thing. Calling it a great romance and an enduring love is quite another. Slow builds that go on for years is one thing. Insta-pairings that occur in the space of a few days is another. There is a LOT of room on that spectrum, but lately Days is choosing only to stay on one extreme end (except, perhaps, for the one relationship you mention). Furthermore, trying to sell shallow insta-pairings as profound love stories is insulting.

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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

I might sell my soul for a good Kayla/Mike/Kate/Bill quad
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lysie


LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 08:11 PM
annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:38 PM
lysie
Jul 5 2012, 07:26 PM
LonePirate
Jul 5 2012, 07:24 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't agree that they've been built up for a year. I think to even say they've been building them up since February would be too generous.
Agreed. Will and Sonny only seem like a slow build because the show (the network?) has lacked the courage to really commit and tell an actual story. There has been no build.
When two characters go from not knowing each other to spending the next several months becoming friends and sharing considerable time with each other, I would consider that to be a slow build for a relationship, especially when one of them finally expresses feelings for the other. If they were a heterosexual couple with the same timeline, I don't think there would be any doubt this would be considered a slow build relationship. Even real life relationships don't move this slowly nowadays. Viewers who are expecting a slow build relationship like the ones from 10, 20 or 30 years ago are simply not going to find that any more. The soap storytelling model (and audiences) have changed too much to make that possible.
I don't disagree that that's how slow builds happen but I don't agree that that was happening with Will and Sonny a year ago.
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magicsteacher
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annie21
Jul 5 2012, 07:20 PM
It's awful how they're using vets to prop newbies. Abe and Kayla were all about Cam and Abby. Abby asks her Aunt Kayla about Steve, but do we hear more than two seconds of a reply? No! Then, bang, it's all about Cam and Abby for the REST of the episode. Horrible.

But even worse is how they're using supercouples and long-term pairings to shore up insta-pairings. So Cam and Abby are now supposedly in the same leagues as the great love between Steve and Kayla or the long-term pairing of Abe and Lexie? Puh-lease! There is no comparison. At. All.

They pulled something similar with Carrie trying to liken what she feels for Rafe to the story of Marlena and John. Or when they tried to make some kind of great love story of Madison and Brady. Now, they're attempting to convince us Daniel and Nicolu are in twu wuv, too. Infuriating!

This show is skating around on the surface and is too lazy to actually build real relationships and real love stories. They just invoke great love stories of the past and say, yeah, this is just like that.

It's an appalling case of exploiting their own past for future gain. And it ain't working.

I totally agree with your entire post. I really believe that the only reason we are seeing the pairing of Nicole and Dan was a plot point to free up EJ to be with Sami. I have no doubt Ejami and Cafe were where Mardar was headed. It wouldn't even surprise me if Nic and Dan were going to be let go to ride off in the sunset together to further their agenda.
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Kansa
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Lauren Koslow looked so good in that shade of yellow!

Enjoyed Kayla's chat with Abby and Abe's chat with Cameron. Kate Mansi looked lovely.

Madison doesn't know her ex husband or her fiancee very well, apparently.

I watched this episode off and on while it was on. Overall, I thought it was okay but not a must see.

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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Today Kate looked like the lovechild of Doris Day and Maleficent who was on her way to an acid dropping psychedelic picnic.
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Kansa
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Kriss4
Jul 5 2012, 06:54 PM
I think it's good if Abby gets some focus. She's a longtime character and she's Jack and Jennifer's daughter. I just appreciated the fact that Kayla and Abby HAD a scene, and a real conversation. It's about time they did. Kayla is Abby's aunt.

My only problem is that I don't know or care about Cameron. They're moving too fast there.
I agree with you. I enjoyed Kayla and Abby together and I hope they can get something good on the canvas for Kate.

While I definitely agree DAYS has a bad habit of throwing people together with no build up, I would expect to see faster movement of relationships with younger people. While not true for all younger people, it's been my experience that the younger you are the less likely you are to be cautious when getting into new relationships.
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Kansa
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Matt
Jul 5 2012, 09:21 PM
Today Kate looked like the lovechild of Doris Day and Maleficent who was on her way to an acid dropping psychedelic picnic.
Lol, Matt! Between the lighting in the DiMera mansion and Kate Mansi's appearance today, I'm 0 for 2 with you right now!
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DesignatedShelley
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I don't mind if Abby and Cameron are going out a lot, getting busy, etc. But Abby seemed soooo distraught at the idea of him going to Chicago. Just, why? Is his berry-picking just that good?

Dating, you can rush. Lust, you can rush. Love takes a bit more thought. And when you try to do it with a cookie-cutter romance like Abby/Cameron it's going to be even worse. The actor can't pull off Mr Perfect naturally enough and Cameron has absolutely no personality written in to him. I don't care about his connection with Lexie since it was just invented 5 seconds ago. His angst with Abby is rushed and thus laughable. They're just bright young pretty people (and honestly Cameron isn't even that pretty).

All of Abby's romances are so damn bland. Max, Chad, Cameron, you'd think she ran over a soap writer's dog in a previous life or something. At this point my favorite Abby ship is Abby/Josh (that guy who worked at the Java Cafe and was on screen for all of 15 seconds). All of her relationships with any actual chemistry are with friends and family (Jack, Jennifer, Nick, Chelsea ...). I feel so bad for her, I thought both older Abby actresses were/are promising but the character just gets jackshit for storyline. Girl should be out in the world pursuing a career or an adventure or a mission, not boring guys with no personalities.
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Kriss4


Ever since Alice Horton died, I've been wanting Bill to come back to Salem. Actually, I'd like it if the same actor was cast in the part as was there for the funeral. I don't remember the actor's name, but I remember he was good, and he and Kate would be good together.

And I've already gone on record that I'd like it if Mike Horton came back and was tested with Kayla.
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Kriss4


What does Abby do? What's her job?

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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Kansa
Jul 5 2012, 09:26 PM
Matt
Jul 5 2012, 09:21 PM
Today Kate looked like the lovechild of Doris Day and Maleficent who was on her way to an acid dropping psychedelic picnic.
Lol, Matt! Between the lighting in the DiMera mansion and Kate Mansi's appearance today, I'm 0 for 2 with you right now!
Kat Mansi (Abby) I liked today. I thought the dress was very nice on her. I was referring to that snot green & blue combo on KATE ROBERTS today.
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