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Spoilers for the week of July 23rd; *UPDATED 7/17*
Topic Started: Jul 12 2012, 09:43 AM (64,643 Views)
esp13
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Kyrai
Jul 20 2012, 05:55 AM
Shadow
Jul 20 2012, 12:18 AM
I didn't say ignore it, I said you have to keep moving on, because there are new stories to tell. Because of the nature of the genre, they all do shitty things. The audience has to suspend a lot of reality to believe most of these people would still be interacting with each other at all. That relationships still exist at all between some of these people is rediculous. Thanksgiving conversations would be things like, Roman to Marlena, "Remember that time you killed me? That was a hoot."

The audience at large isn't hung up on all the things these people have done being a reason they shouldn't even interact. In reality, the mere fact that EJ has tried to choke Nicole, or Lucas helped Kate dump Sami over a cliff, would be enough reason for them to never speak again. Look what Lexie did to Hope with Zack and they were best friends after that. It would never happen in reality. But in a soap, you have to accept the fact Hope and Lexie can still be besties, even if you mention the past. And they did mention many times that Lexie raised Zach as a baby. If you don't move on and forgive with Lexie and Hope, you can't watch and enjoy the show. Doug and Julie had a terrible start, now they are the cute old couple who exemplify marriage perfection. Yes, we know historically these things happened, but we can't dwell on them or expect the characters to have restraining orders against each other like they should. You can't tell a story then. The characters go through redemptive story arcs, or not. Sometimes a year or so passes and all is forgiven, and we move on to the next SL.

EJ and Sami are the only ones who get their past brought up in every thread where their names are mentioned across the Internet. I don't see anybody tweeting about the reasons other characters shouldn't be in the same room together.
I couldn't have said this better. Change is a part of the soap world. Characters need to be allowed to grow, not forever hemmed in.
Yes, but growing and changing doesn't mean forgetting. As lysie already said, there are a gazillion examples of using history to show that growth and change. Jack may be the best example. His past misdeeds were not forgotten. The writers didn't just ask the audience to "move on." They used his history to create a layered and complex redemption story. And even after that redemption was complete, that history wasn't just tossed aside.

But with EJ and Sami, it does get tossed aside. Sure, they may pay it lip service, but that's it. Are Sami or EJ any different now than they were when she shot him or when he stuck fake Rafe in her life? Nope. And if the past is going to be forgotten, and does nothing to impact the characters, then what was the friggin' point?
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mer4santo
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lysie
Jul 20 2012, 01:00 AM
mer4santo
Jul 20 2012, 12:49 AM
lysie
Jul 20 2012, 12:42 AM
mer4santo
Jul 20 2012, 12:40 AM
Marlena killing everyone in town isn't mentioned nearly enough.
Because they changed it to Andre killing everyone in town and not Marlena. But I do wish they'd mention it more. Someone referenced the story not that long ago, but at the moment I can't remember who it was. I even wish they'd mention some of the lame stories. They missed several opportunities to reference Melaswen during that stupid safe house story.
I know she didn't do it but at the time they did, people need to reference that JER shyte. Melas wen, come on! Stefano created a replica town w a force field and nobody ever mentions that.? " remember when we all woke up in Salem but it was tropical and we were wearing Tiki shirts?" " good times"
I really think it would be awesome if it were the town joke, lol. Or "remember the time two aliens landed here?" There's a TON of things I wish they'd mention more. The more recent history is my biggest pet peeve because it.just.happened so it should still be fresh, but I've had lists of stuff like this for years. I do think the last decade or so has been the worst about it, though. They've been okay at bringing up way back history, but they can't seem to handle their own regime's history. Back when I still liked Nicole, it drove me crazy that there wasn't more tension after the baby switch between her and Sami. I realize there was some, but there wasn't nearly enough considering what happened.
So agreed. I was thinking something similar when Nic was talking to Dan about losing a child last week and referenced Syd. Why he didn't point out that SHE was the kidnapper at one point was astonishing.
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AHM


Ignoring history is part of what makes all the newer characters utterly baseless and boring to me.

Shadow, you know people who watch Days? The only person I can talk with (outside of message boards) about the current show is my mom. My friends know of characters like Kayla, Jack, Roman, Marlena, Stefano, but they don't know who EJ is, and they don't have any desire to look into it. What I can't figure out is that Days actually still has around two million viewers. I find that difficult to believe. Is it just that it's on in all the rest homes or something?
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lysie


AHM
Jul 20 2012, 10:09 AM
Ignoring history is part of what makes all the newer characters utterly baseless and boring to me.

Shadow, you know people who watch Days? The only person I can talk with (outside of message boards) about the current show is my mom. My friends know of characters like Kayla, Jack, Roman, Marlena, Stefano, but they don't know who EJ is, and they don't have any desire to look into it. What I can't figure out is that Days actually still has around two million viewers. I find that difficult to believe. Is it just that it's on in all the rest homes or something?
I know several people that watch and none of them ever mentions a character under 40 except for Carrie. They mention Sami in only past tense. And they're all in the target demographic. And none of them has a clue I even watch, so they definitely don't know who I like or don't like. But the vast majority of the time, they end up talking about the nineties. Austin/Carrie/Sami, the secret room, Vivian/Victor/Kate, death row, lady in a cage, Mike/Carrie, Eric's beauty...and this is all without my 90s loving self's input. The last time I remember them truly being interested was in 2008 when that misleading headline about Bo saying goodbye came out.
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AHM


^Interesting. Yeah, I'm in the target demo, and I don't care about a single character under forty.

ETA: I could have cared about Nicole, if they'd ever really gone somewhere with her, but at this point, I don't think I'll care much even if they do. I could have cared about Abby, if they'd played the aftermath of her crazy and given her some depth, rather than forgetting about it and throwing her into a no-build romance with a complete bore.
Edited by AHM, Jul 20 2012, 10:29 AM.
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gailwinters
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AHM
Jul 20 2012, 10:26 AM
^Interesting. Yeah, I'm in the target demo, and I don't care about a single character under forty.
I'm well outside their target demo, and my favorite characters are all under forty. I will have to make an exception when ED appears.
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NikiLani
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Didn't ej and Nicole talk about the things she did in their first marriage on the night of the reveal, the kidnapping, lying about the miscarriage or was that on the morning after the storm. Ej even mentioned her doing everything she could to give him Sydney while now doing everything she can to keep him away from his unborn child in the last scene they shared together. When given the chance these two actually talk things out, it's never pretty but it's there.

I guess some character's past is easier to remember than others. Even if she mentioned being the kidnapper to Daniel it's none of his business, I doubt it would change his mind from wanting to poke her every five seconds. He was not involved in that s/l. She's even talked to rafe about the sydnapping saga because he went through it with sami, there's history there. Nicole's past is almost never whitewashed whether she wants it to or not and I like her all the more for it, it keeps the hypocrisy to a minimum.
Edited by NikiLani, Jul 20 2012, 10:34 AM.
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Liz<3Days
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rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 10:30 AM
Didn't ej and Nicole talk about the things she did in their first marriage on the night of the reveal, the kidnapping, lying about the miscarriage or was that on the morning after the storm. Ej even mentioned her doing everything she could to gie him Sydney while now doing everything she can to keep him away from his unborn child in the last scene they shared together?

I guess some character's past is easier to remember than others. Even if she mentioned being the kidnapper to Daniel it's none of his business, I doubt it would change his mind from wanting to poke her every five seconds. He was not involved in that s/l. She's even talked to rafe about the sydnapping sagwbecause he went through it with sami, there's history there. Nicole's past is almost never whitewashed whether she wants it to or not and I like her all the more for it, it keeps the hypocrisy to a minimum.
IA, Nicole's past is not whitewashed...its inaccurate and Nicole fails to correct it each and every time.

Yes, Nicole has talked about the Sydnapping to various people and the only time Sami and Nicole talk, Sami almost always calls her "kidnapper" while Nicole just takes it and doesnt fight back. Sami's is always brought up as"bad things?" Really Beast, I think your shit qualifies more than just "bad things."

If Nicole thinks of Tan as some fling, which I think she does, then she usually wouldnt open up to him because then the "relationship" becomes more then sex to Nicole. She did talk to Rafe about it because it directly involved him.
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brazen
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Quote:
 
Ej even mentioned her doing everything she could to give him Sydney while now doing everything she can to keep him away from his unborn child in the last scene they shared together. When given the chance these two actually talk things out, it's never pretty but it's there.

In the first case she was doing everything she could to hold onto EJ and not lose him. She didn't think she could keep him if she told him she didn't have his child while Sami was out there pregnant.

This time she doesn't want to hold onto him, she's got her eyes open this time about his Sami tunnel vision. However that still doesn't make her "Rafe's the daddy" make any sense. She can not be with EJ and still co-parent, denying him the child when she never cared at all about the Dimera way of life makes her look hypocritical with her suddenly not wanting her kid raised a Dimera when she wanted it and would have done it before she found out about grief sex. Her choices are having nothing to do with her baby, EJ, herself but about Sami and EJ's grief sex.



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NikiLani
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Ej is the one who said she did everything to give him a child now she is doing everything to take one away from him, not an exact quote of course but this is their last conversation together in his apartment. I was talking about Nicole's misdeeds not being whitewashed not her reasons for doing them.
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emma mia
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rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 10:45 AM
Ej is the one who said she did everything to give him a child now she is doing everything to take one away from him, not an exact quote of course but this is their last conversation together in his apartment. I was talking about Nicole's misdeeds not being whitewashed not her reasons for doing them.
Nicole is not the only one whose deeds are brought up. Before grief sex EJAMI ran through their listing, just last week Sami talked about her murder attempt and from spoilers she is going to make up for that deed in a big way.

Brazen, she is not just keeping the child because of the sex, she is going it because EJ loves Sami more, and puts Sami first every chance he gets; prety darn selfish!
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NikiLani
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Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
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emma mia
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rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 11:03 AM
Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
what twice attempted murder? Sami make have been the one to make the decision to pull the plug, but it was not a decision she wanted to make AND it was made at the advice of Lexie; the other most important person in EJ's life.

and I personally had no issue with Sami shooting EJ; it was har lack of remorse and always wanting him dead after that was my issue, so for her to put her life in the way to save his pretty much makes up for it IMO. I men after all the others did not make up for their wrong by having the same done to them!

She has a right to be mad at EJ, at herself as well too, because she knew the score from day one; however she has no right to keep his child from him. She does not have to be with EJ for him to be a father to his child; EJ has shown that he would work within a custody agreement now and in the past, so there really is no excuse for her behaviour IMO!
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 11:03 AM
Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
I'm not sure what else he could have/should have done. He spent a couple of months literally begging her for another chance - even offering to raise someone else's kid (that she continues to lie about).

I'm beyond happy to see him moving on. She's proven she's not worth it.
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brazen
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Quote:
 
Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Well she is going to be attacked on the way to the lawyer and then jump in front of a gun for him and tell him to run while she shields him. So there's 2.

Quote:
 

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
She does have every right to be done with EJ. But Sami should have nothing to do with Nicole-baby-EJ though. It's about Nicole, her child and her child's real father. EJ loving Sami more or EJ and Sami grief sex should have nothing to do with her decision making. It's appearing vindictive and spiteful using the kid as a pawn to hurt EJ because she's hurt over his feelings/actions he doesn't deserve his kid.
Edited by brazen, Jul 20 2012, 11:15 AM.
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emma mia
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SocRMum1
Jul 20 2012, 11:12 AM
rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 11:03 AM
Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
I'm not sure what else he could have/should have done. He spent a couple of months literally begging her for another chance - even offering to raise someone else's kid (that she continues to lie about).

I'm beyond happy to see him moving on. She's proven she's not worth it.
and she has proven that she cannot give EJ everything he needed and I use the word needed because he was unable to even tell her he loved her until after the talk with Sami about Grief Sex.

I am just so glad that EJ has his swagger back; that has been MIA since 2007/08 and I do not want to see it wasted on that!
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emma mia
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brazen
Jul 20 2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
 
Unless she actually takes a bullet and have someone actually try and snuff out her life while it's hanging by a thread, I wouldn't call it making up for the twice attempted murder.

Well she is going to be attacked on the way to the lawyer and then jump in front of a gun for him and tell him to run while she shields him. So there's 2.

Quote:
 

Nicole has every right to be mad at EJ, I hate that she is trying keep him away from his child because she wins nothing from it but I get why she doesn't want to play with ej any more, and it's not like he is giving her any reason to change her mind now is it?
She does have every right to be done with EJ. But Sami should have nothing to do with Nicole-baby-EJ though. It's about Nicole, her child and her child's real father. EJ loving Sami more or EJ and Sami grief sex should have nothing to do with her decision making. It's appearing vindictive and spiteful using the kid as a pawn to hurt EJ because she's hurt over his feelings/actions he doesn't deserve his kid.
not to mention she is actively trying to put him in jail just so she had further her agenda. Vindictive is an understatement IMO!
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NikiLani
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How life threatening is her mugging?

Shouting out "run" even when getting between ej and shooter, who won't shoot her obviously, does not make up for point blank shooting ej while he is passed out from drink and then try and finish him off at the hospital.
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brazen
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Quote:
 
not to mention she is actively trying to put him in jail just so she had further her agenda. Vindictive is an understatement IMO!

Oh yeah, I forgot about the rummaging through his apartment for bullets to hand over to Rafe.

Quote:
 
How life threatening is her mugging?

Shouting out "run" even when getting between ej and shooter, who won't shoot her obviously, does not make up for point blank shooting ej while he is passed out from drink and then try and finish him off at the hospital.

It's impossible to make up for that. What it does show is that she's valuing his life and safety above her own and in the face of a gun she's trying to protect him.

As for the mugging, who knows but it's still a mugging that happens to her because she's helping EJ and because Lucas is awfully stupid.
Edited by brazen, Jul 20 2012, 11:30 AM.
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emma mia
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rpmaluki
Jul 20 2012, 11:23 AM
How life threatening is her mugging?

Shouting out "run" even when getting between ej and shooter, who won't shoot her obviously, does not make up for point blank shooting ej while he is passed out from drink and then try and finish him off at the hospital.
I guess this is one of those things where personal preferences comes in. I think EJ would be pretty darn grateful though.

and there is no finish him off at the hospital; Sami acted per EJ's will and Lexie's advice.
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