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Spoilers for the week of October 8th; *updated 10/5*
Topic Started: Sep 27 2012, 12:04 AM (56,205 Views)
Ejole Lifer


Harmony233
Oct 3 2012, 11:50 AM
px780
Oct 3 2012, 11:45 AM
BillieD
Oct 3 2012, 11:35 AM
The thing is, if they didn't go the route of Nicole knowing about her dead baby, they could have still had their "out" to save their precious Jennifer when it was revealed that the baby survived and was taken by Stefano and/or Kristen. But no, they are making Nicole the villain, with knife in hand and all :shame: , so that the idiot viewers have no doubt who the true victim is. :eyeroll:
I actually have the opposite take on it, in a way.

Because Nicole just found out about her dead baby, it's easy to ignore her manipulation of Jen because the emotions are raw. If she didn't know in advance and was just manipulating, they'd have to rely on something like pregnancy hormones to explain her behavior.

It would have been more my type of story for Kristen to stroll into town with a fresh baby. But whatever works. This is a show that blew up the town and then waited weeks before having major characters leave the canvas. So, y'know, they aren't all that concerned with taking advantage of things like exits/entrances. Though who knows, maybe there's something truly unspoiled.
I do think from spoilers it sounds like nicole is having a breakdown but that won't matter once the truth is out nicole will be seen as the evil villian
Nicole will be seen as evil, but I don't even care that much about that because I don't like Jen anyway and I loathe Doctor Tan. Just why do they have to kill her kid? Nicole could even fake a miscarriage and that would be better than this.
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lysie


camera shy
Oct 3 2012, 11:54 AM
I can't believe James Scott isn't embarrassed to have a woman who has a face like a pig turn up her snout at his character.
It doesn't really matter if he is or not, and it's especially not relevant to spoilers.
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esp13
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Harmony233
Oct 3 2012, 11:50 AM
px780
Oct 3 2012, 11:45 AM
BillieD
Oct 3 2012, 11:35 AM
The thing is, if they didn't go the route of Nicole knowing about her dead baby, they could have still had their "out" to save their precious Jennifer when it was revealed that the baby survived and was taken by Stefano and/or Kristen. But no, they are making Nicole the villain, with knife in hand and all :shame: , so that the idiot viewers have no doubt who the true victim is. :eyeroll:
I actually have the opposite take on it, in a way.

Because Nicole just found out about her dead baby, it's easy to ignore her manipulation of Jen because the emotions are raw. If she didn't know in advance and was just manipulating, they'd have to rely on something like pregnancy hormones to explain her behavior.

It would have been more my type of story for Kristen to stroll into town with a fresh baby. But whatever works. This is a show that blew up the town and then waited weeks before having major characters leave the canvas. So, y'know, they aren't all that concerned with taking advantage of things like exits/entrances. Though who knows, maybe there's something truly unspoiled.
I do think from spoilers it sounds like nicole is having a breakdown but that won't matter once the truth is out nicole will be seen as the evil villian
But the thing is, Nicole IS a villain. While I missed her first run, my understanding is she's always been one. She'd not a cartoon, mustache twirling, tie a girl to the tracks villain, but she's still a villain by any soap standards. She blackmails, schemes, manipulates, bribes, and otherwise does villainous things. What makes Nicole a compelling character (at least for me) is that AZ (and, once in a great while, the dialogue) makes it easy to see that most of Nicole's villainy comes from a combination of insecurity, vulnerabilty, and desperation.

I don't believe for one minute that Daniel is the love of her life and her scheming is because of some belief in true love. But, I think that's what she thinks it is. What it is really about is her desperation for some kind of security and a belief that Daniel represents that. Same with her brief infatuation with Rafe. Her past obsession with money comes from the same place. In my opinion, it's all very consistent behavior. This latest scheme is not particularly more evil than her past schemes that I know about anyway. And it's compelling (again, to me) because it is so clearly driven by grief/anger/fear/desperation. I feel bad for Nicole when she does things to sabotage her life because I believe those actions are not driven by evil, but by other, more sympathetic, emotions.

Others may not agree and that's fine. But if the writers really wanted to make Nicole the evil villain to prop the heroine Jennifer, I don't think they'd be making it clear that Nicole is crazy with grief before it happens.
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Aimikins
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JtSmarts
Oct 2 2012, 06:15 PM
This is a quote from DrewHamilton from the MarDar fired thread that tackles the question of what was Higley and what was Tomlin.

Quote:
 
Tomlin and Whitesell were responsible for pretty much everything from late-fall-2008 until about spring-2010 (Sami and Nicole's baby switch, Melanie/Nathan/Stephanie/Philip, Lucas/Chloe/Daniel/Kate, etc). Then Higley wrote most of the summer of 2010, including the Nighttime Hope storyline, Alice's funeral, SAMI AND EJ ROUND 560934. By the fall, the reigns were placed back into Whitesell's hands (Arianna's death, Sami shooting EJ, Nicole being pathetic and returning to EJ to be with Sydney). By the late-winter/early-spring-2011, Higley was back in charge and she gave us Taylor/EJ/Nicole, Vivian/Quinn, Chloe's hooker storyline, and every other disaster that took us right up until the reset when MarDar arrived.


http://daytimeroyaltyonline.com/topic/8670899/3/
So its like Sophie's Choice. None of them are any good. Hard to pick a winning team there
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deletemyaccountplease


i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
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Harmony233


pennieloafer
Oct 3 2012, 12:17 PM
i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
IA look at sami she was one of the biggest villians on this show and she had a kid during that time even when her and lucas fell in love she was still one of the bad girls and personally i could give a rats ass about dannifer i'll just be glad when nicole is out of that hell story
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Nicole can still be a villain with a baby in tow, but of course this show is so one note, can't say I'm surprised they went the lamest/laziest route possible. Nicole has to go crazy and lose the baby so St. Eric can save the day without any competition. That way Ejole will no longer have to interact and they can pimp Ericole as the next best thing. Sadly all I'll be able to think about is how the dead baby was sacrificed to prop the saints of Salem and give the next pet of the show a SL. Either way they are making it easy for me NOT to care about this craptistic show. :shame:
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Happylover


I am going to cry that week.
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six
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pennieloafer
Oct 3 2012, 12:17 PM
i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
Women under Tomlin apparently can't. Nicole's main dream since 2009 has been to dote on a baby, and I'm for anything that keeps that version of Nicole from coming back. The same thing happened to Sami. She had little kids so she had to stop scheming and grow up. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to Days.
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james0479
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Ok...I just read the updated spoilers and I'm going to go out on a very big limb here and say I love it. Mind you, I've been REALLY vocal about my disdain at the idea Nicole loses this baby. Nicole is usually my favorite character and I want her to have her baby. However, if the dumbass writers are gonna kill it...this is how you kill a baby (I know that sounds awful).
Nicole is a bit crazy anyway so of course she would go over the edge when she finds out her baby is dead. It doesn't matter who she's with. She doesn't love Daniel. She loves that baby and the idea of happily ever after. Sadly, Nicoles world doesnt get a happy ending. She will know her baby is dead but she won't accept it. She couldn't have failed this! She won't accept it. So when Jennifer's push causes a fall, she has her next love lined up: Blame. Now she can say Jennifer killed my child. Is it angst for Dannifer? Maybe. But it's soapy and oddly interesting. And Jenn getting arrested for murder is damn unexpected. I'm not a shipper of these writers at all and I'm sad about Nicole's baby.....but this is an interesting set up and ill be watching.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

six
Oct 3 2012, 12:41 PM
pennieloafer
Oct 3 2012, 12:17 PM
i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
Women under Tomlin apparently can't. Nicole's main dream since 2009 has been to dote on a baby, and I'm for anything that keeps that version of Nicole from coming back. The same thing happened to Sami. She had little kids so she had to stop scheming and grow up. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to Days.
that isn't particularly true though. Sami had Will as a teenager and did a good amount of her most awful scheming after she had the child and while the kid was still young, by the time she had the twins, yes what you say is true but will was in his teens by the time she had her twins and all that time from the moment she had will to the moment she had the twins she spent scheming, either for a man, as Stan, or blackmailing and scheming to get back at all those that she perceived wronged her.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

What I don't get about this story (and virtually Tomlin's writing in general) is that they will not take risks at all. Why not work up Jennifer's anger (shit they can even blame it on Jack's death) over time and have her finally 'snap' and get into a physical altercation with Nicole and have her tumble down the stairs as Brady and Daniel enter the room. They witness it and they can't believe Jennifer's actions. They rush Nicole to the hospital where she goes into labor and the baby is still born. But they are making Nicole do this solely to prop Dannifer when it wasn't necessary...the entire altercation and all could have been angst for Dannifer if they wanted it without having Jennifer NOT take the fall for pushing Nicole and making Nicole's baby die. Jennifer is no longer a heroine in my eyes, she stopped being that a long time ago....this could have set off an EXCELLENT story for Missy if they wanted to. She's in jail and then starts to have a real breakdown where she even starts SEEING Jack.....that would have brought MA back too....how fucking stupid they don't take advantage of what's right in front of them.
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Harmony233


LuvingLumi
Oct 3 2012, 12:48 PM
six
Oct 3 2012, 12:41 PM
pennieloafer
Oct 3 2012, 12:17 PM
i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
Women under Tomlin apparently can't. Nicole's main dream since 2009 has been to dote on a baby, and I'm for anything that keeps that version of Nicole from coming back. The same thing happened to Sami. She had little kids so she had to stop scheming and grow up. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to Days.
that isn't particularly true though. Sami had Will as a teenager and did a good amount of her most awful scheming after she had the child and while the kid was still young, by the time she had the twins, yes what you say is true but will was in his teens by the time she had her twins and all that time from the moment she had will to the moment she had the twins she spent scheming, either for a man, as Stan, or blackmailing and scheming to get back at all those that she perceived wronged her.
IA I do inda miss when sami just had will i do think the twins kinda boggled sami down but then adding another baby on top of that was ridclous
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six
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LuvingLumi
Oct 3 2012, 12:48 PM
six
Oct 3 2012, 12:41 PM
pennieloafer
Oct 3 2012, 12:17 PM
i like villains

but villains can be in love
and villains can be in love with other villains and have babies
Women under Tomlin apparently can't. Nicole's main dream since 2009 has been to dote on a baby, and I'm for anything that keeps that version of Nicole from coming back. The same thing happened to Sami. She had little kids so she had to stop scheming and grow up. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to Days.
that isn't particularly true though. Sami had Will as a teenager and did a good amount of her most awful scheming after she had the child and while the kid was still young, by the time she had the twins, yes what you say is true but will was in his teens by the time she had her twins and all that time from the moment she had will to the moment she had the twins she spent scheming, either for a man, as Stan, or blackmailing and scheming to get back at all those that she perceived wronged her.
No, that's why I said "Under Tomlin." It wasn't until he got there that Sami got on the path that lead us to where we are today. She briefly strayed under mardar, but Tomlin even fixed that by having everyone tell her off for not putting her kids first, and now she's falling back in line.

As a fan of classic Sami, I'd never claim she wasn't a schemer as soon as she became a mom. lol The majority of her best crazy behavior only happened because she was a mom. Original Sami was my go to example to shoot down all the "you can't be a villain with a baby" arguments.
Edited by six, Oct 3 2012, 01:04 PM.
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james0479
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LuvingLumi
Oct 3 2012, 12:54 PM
What I don't get about this story (and virtually Tomlin's writing in general) is that they will not take risks at all. Why not work up Jennifer's anger (shit they can even blame it on Jack's death) over time and have her finally 'snap' and get into a physical altercation with Nicole and have her tumble down the stairs as Brady and Daniel enter the room. They witness it and they can't believe Jennifer's actions. They rush Nicole to the hospital where she goes into labor and the baby is still born. But they are making Nicole do this solely to prop Dannifer when it wasn't necessary...the entire altercation and all could have been angst for Dannifer if they wanted it without having Jennifer NOT take the fall for pushing Nicole and making Nicole's baby die. Jennifer is no longer a heroine in my eyes, she stopped being that a long time ago....this could have set off an EXCELLENT story for Missy if they wanted to. She's in jail and then starts to have a real breakdown where she even starts SEEING Jack.....that would have brought MA back too....how fucking stupid they don't take advantage of what's right in front of them.
Well...that's good too! That's the better story probably and we got the TomSell version of it but I still find it almost fitting. TomSell are oftentimes almost on the right page but miss every great beat a story should have. Had Jennifer's push really killed the baby it wouldve created more than just Dannifer angst. That would be a shocking blow to the whole town. Doing it the way TomSell wrote it, Nicole does become the liar while losing her baby too....which is sad but that's Nicole. After reading your post, I will agree your scenario is better than the one we get but what else is new? :)
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

LuvingLumi
Oct 3 2012, 12:54 PM
What I don't get about this story (and virtually Tomlin's writing in general) is that they will not take risks at all. Why not work up Jennifer's anger (shit they can even blame it on Jack's death) over time and have her finally 'snap' and get into a physical altercation with Nicole and have her tumble down the stairs as Brady and Daniel enter the room. They witness it and they can't believe Jennifer's actions. They rush Nicole to the hospital where she goes into labor and the baby is still born. But they are making Nicole do this solely to prop Dannifer when it wasn't necessary...the entire altercation and all could have been angst for Dannifer if they wanted it without having Jennifer NOT take the fall for pushing Nicole and making Nicole's baby die. Jennifer is no longer a heroine in my eyes, she stopped being that a long time ago....this could have set off an EXCELLENT story for Missy if they wanted to. She's in jail and then starts to have a real breakdown where she even starts SEEING Jack.....that would have brought MA back too....how fucking stupid they don't take advantage of what's right in front of them.
Absolutely! They really missed an opportunity with this. Their fear of having anything unsavory actually stick to Jennifer prevented them from writing the story in the most compelling way possible. Having the audience know the baby is already dead and that Nicole is setting things up strips it of the real conflict and compassion that could have been there. Nicole could have still lost the baby as a result of their confrontation and Jennifer could have had no intention for that to happen - and then both characters would be shown grappling with the ensuing grief/guilt/blame. That would have been far more compelling as far as I'm concerned - a story where the 'root for' character isn't forced on us but where the audience could find themselves empathizing with both women. It's a pity TPTB feel they can't trust the audience to simply absorb the story and form our own opinions along the way.
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Courtneya6688
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There was so much potential to nicoles baby. Jen should have never been in this story to begin with. I would have rather seen jen having a break down over jack and really dealing with her grief. With stefeno and kristen back it would have been a great plot to steel the baby and make nicole think her child was dead. Eric could have come back helped her through her grief and together they could have eventually found her son. It amazes me how viewers can come up with better storylines than the actual writters
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james0479
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All I've said aside, I do want to mention I find it a tad inappropriate to name that episode "Nicole Gives Birth". Ya know?
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Courtneya6688
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I hope the truth comes out pretty quickly about nicoles baby really being dead before her fall mainly because i want the story to focus more on her grief than dannifer angust. Plus getting poor nicole how of daniels orbit is the only thing i have to look forward to in this awful story
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JamesScott_19
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Don't get up. So how are you? What happened, eh? Let me guess, Stefano told you that you could fly,and you jumped off a building. HeHe It's funny right, no I'm sorry Bad EJ, I should'nt be that cruel!

Angie79
Oct 3 2012, 12:01 AM
Friday ("Nicole Gives Birth")
Nicole blames Jennifer for her stillborn child; John and Marlena are thrilled that Sami and Rafe are dating.
Oh let the whole world celebrate that Safe are together :rolleyes: , if this is not Tomlin writing then I don't know what is.
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