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Spoilers for the week of October 8th; *updated 10/5*
Topic Started: Sep 27 2012, 12:04 AM (56,204 Views)
SoapGal1
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SocRMum1
Oct 3 2012, 01:09 PM
LuvingLumi
Oct 3 2012, 12:54 PM
What I don't get about this story (and virtually Tomlin's writing in general) is that they will not take risks at all. Why not work up Jennifer's anger (shit they can even blame it on Jack's death) over time and have her finally 'snap' and get into a physical altercation with Nicole and have her tumble down the stairs as Brady and Daniel enter the room. They witness it and they can't believe Jennifer's actions. They rush Nicole to the hospital where she goes into labor and the baby is still born. But they are making Nicole do this solely to prop Dannifer when it wasn't necessary...the entire altercation and all could have been angst for Dannifer if they wanted it without having Jennifer NOT take the fall for pushing Nicole and making Nicole's baby die. Jennifer is no longer a heroine in my eyes, she stopped being that a long time ago....this could have set off an EXCELLENT story for Missy if they wanted to. She's in jail and then starts to have a real breakdown where she even starts SEEING Jack.....that would have brought MA back too....how fucking stupid they don't take advantage of what's right in front of them.
Absolutely! They really missed an opportunity with this. Their fear of having anything unsavory actually stick to Jennifer prevented them from writing the story in the most compelling way possible. Having the audience know the baby is already dead and that Nicole is setting things up strips it of the real conflict and compassion that could have been there. Nicole could have still lost the baby as a result of their confrontation and Jennifer could have had no intention for that to happen - and then both characters would be shown grappling with the ensuing grief/guilt/blame. That would have been far more compelling as far as I'm concerned - a story where the 'root for' character isn't forced on us but where the audience could find themselves empathizing with both women. It's a pity TPTB feel they can't trust the audience to simply absorb the story and form our own opinions along the way.
That's because TomSell wants to tell us how to think. And if we don't do it the first time, everything else be damned, they're going to force feed us the second time.

Sure, LL's way would've been the better story but we might not walk away thinking JenJen hung the moon.

What TomSell can't seem to get thru their collective thick skulls is the more they tell us someone is the greatest hero/heroine that ever walked thru Salem (regardless of whatever TomSell has had them do to attain heroiness), the more most of us seem to loathe the character.

Given, all the blame for the JenJen & Dr Tan hate doesn't lie at the feet of TomSell alone, MarDar did a number on them too.

But the hate felt for all things Hernandez & Melamee fall squarely on Tomsell.
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bomber
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Quick question for those who are watching right now.
Do you think the viewers are supposed to accept that she is grieving and that is why she is OTT or is she deliberately being written as a shrew? I am trying to determine if TomSell are trying to portray her as a heroine being attacked by the mean Nicole or if they are rewriting the Jen character to be more "bitchy". If it's the former the writing is absolutely dreadful but if it's the latter maybe this is all intentional. IDK. I'm confused. :shrug:
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mer4santo
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Angie79
Oct 3 2012, 12:01 AM
Friday ("Nicole Gives Birth")
Nicole blames Jennifer for her stillborn child; John and Marlena are thrilled that Sami and Rafe are dating.
I wonder why John and Marlena would give a crap at this point?
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

bomber
Oct 3 2012, 02:25 PM
Quick question for those who are watching right now.
Do you think the viewers are supposed to accept that she is grieving and that is why she is OTT or is she deliberately being written as a shrew? I am trying to determine if TomSell are trying to portray her as a heroine being attacked by the mean Nicole or if they are rewriting the Jen character to be more "bitchy". If it's the former the writing is absolutely dreadful but if it's the latter maybe this is all intentional. IDK. I'm confused. :shrug:
That's a good question. Part of me thinks they really are trying to 'toughen' the character of Jennifer up. She took great pride in sneering to Nicole at HTS in yesterday's show that maybe she's 'not the little cream puff' Nicole thought she was and that must make Nicole a 'stupid bitch'. That whole scenario is not something I would have ever expected to see from the character of Jennifer that I've always enjoyed. I don't necessarily think she needs to be a cream puff and I'm perfectly happy to see my favorites get their claws out when it's warranted - but Jennifer was attacking Nicole based solely on her assumptions of what Nicole has forced Daniel to do for her - and immediately after Daniel told her point blank that he's done it in order to have a future with Nicole. She was jealous - plain and simple. So that's where I have a hard time believing they want the audience to really believe Jennifer is lost in her grief over losing Jack - because her actions seem to be triggered much more by her feelings for Daniel and she's using her supposed grief as an excuse to strike out at people.
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mer4santo
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esp13
Oct 3 2012, 12:12 PM
Harmony233
Oct 3 2012, 11:50 AM
px780
Oct 3 2012, 11:45 AM
BillieD
Oct 3 2012, 11:35 AM
The thing is, if they didn't go the route of Nicole knowing about her dead baby, they could have still had their "out" to save their precious Jennifer when it was revealed that the baby survived and was taken by Stefano and/or Kristen. But no, they are making Nicole the villain, with knife in hand and all :shame: , so that the idiot viewers have no doubt who the true victim is. :eyeroll:
I actually have the opposite take on it, in a way.

Because Nicole just found out about her dead baby, it's easy to ignore her manipulation of Jen because the emotions are raw. If she didn't know in advance and was just manipulating, they'd have to rely on something like pregnancy hormones to explain her behavior.

It would have been more my type of story for Kristen to stroll into town with a fresh baby. But whatever works. This is a show that blew up the town and then waited weeks before having major characters leave the canvas. So, y'know, they aren't all that concerned with taking advantage of things like exits/entrances. Though who knows, maybe there's something truly unspoiled.
I do think from spoilers it sounds like nicole is having a breakdown but that won't matter once the truth is out nicole will be seen as the evil villian
But the thing is, Nicole IS a villain. While I missed her first run, my understanding is she's always been one. She'd not a cartoon, mustache twirling, tie a girl to the tracks villain, but she's still a villain by any soap standards. She blackmails, schemes, manipulates, bribes, and otherwise does villainous things. What makes Nicole a compelling character (at least for me) is that AZ (and, once in a great while, the dialogue) makes it easy to see that most of Nicole's villainy comes from a combination of insecurity, vulnerabilty, and desperation.

I don't believe for one minute that Daniel is the love of her life and her scheming is because of some belief in true love. But, I think that's what she thinks it is. What it is really about is her desperation for some kind of security and a belief that Daniel represents that. Same with her brief infatuation with Rafe. Her past obsession with money comes from the same place. In my opinion, it's all very consistent behavior. This latest scheme is not particularly more evil than her past schemes that I know about anyway. And it's compelling (again, to me) because it is so clearly driven by grief/anger/fear/desperation. I feel bad for Nicole when she does things to sabotage her life because I believe those actions are not driven by evil, but by other, more sympathetic, emotions.

Others may not agree and that's fine. But if the writers really wanted to make Nicole the evil villain to prop the heroine Jennifer, I don't think they'd be making it clear that Nicole is crazy with grief before it happens.
I want to marry this post.

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Ellie


mer4santo
Oct 3 2012, 02:33 PM
Angie79
Oct 3 2012, 12:01 AM
Friday ("Nicole Gives Birth")
Nicole blames Jennifer for her stillborn child; John and Marlena are thrilled that Sami and Rafe are dating.
I wonder why John and Marlena would give a crap at this point?
My guess is that it's all part of the "we're a happy couple" Kristen setup. J&M are happy with each other, they're happy Sami's happy, we're all happy and calm, then Kristen shows up. Good writers take more than a few scenes to set up a lengthy storyline, but, you know...
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esp13
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SocRMum1
Oct 3 2012, 02:40 PM
bomber
Oct 3 2012, 02:25 PM
Quick question for those who are watching right now.
Do you think the viewers are supposed to accept that she is grieving and that is why she is OTT or is she deliberately being written as a shrew? I am trying to determine if TomSell are trying to portray her as a heroine being attacked by the mean Nicole or if they are rewriting the Jen character to be more "bitchy". If it's the former the writing is absolutely dreadful but if it's the latter maybe this is all intentional. IDK. I'm confused. :shrug:
That's a good question. Part of me thinks they really are trying to 'toughen' the character of Jennifer up. She took great pride in sneering to Nicole at HTS in yesterday's show that maybe she's 'not the little cream puff' Nicole thought she was and that must make Nicole a 'stupid bitch'. That whole scenario is not something I would have ever expected to see from the character of Jennifer that I've always enjoyed. I don't necessarily think she needs to be a cream puff and I'm perfectly happy to see my favorites get their claws out when it's warranted - but Jennifer was attacking Nicole based solely on her assumptions of what Nicole has forced Daniel to do for her - and immediately after Daniel told her point blank that he's done it in order to have a future with Nicole. She was jealous - plain and simple. So that's where I have a hard time believing they want the audience to really believe Jennifer is lost in her grief over losing Jack - because her actions seem to be triggered much more by her feelings for Daniel and she's using her supposed grief as an excuse to strike out at people.
I think there is one other factor to how this is playing out. MR can't play subtext to save her life. She plays what is written on the page on that particular day. And sometimes she doesn't even play that all that well. I think we are supposed to believe that Jennifer is on the edge emotionally because of Jack. I think we are supposed to believe that, on some level, her refound obsession with Daniel is related to that. And I think we are supposed to believe that her anger and lashing out is because of her being on the edge. I mean, they had that whole scene with Kayla where she lashed out at her and then apologized because her emotions had been out of control. The only purpose for that scene was to set that pending breakdown up.

The problem is that MR can't sell it the way she needs to. She just comes off as mean and bitchy. And while she does convey the feeling of being on the edge, it isn't connected to any real grief because MR hasn't played that grief even when it's been directly referenced. She's just not that good of an actress anymore and it's hurting the character's likeability immensely.
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Harmony233


Maybe I'm wrong but the JEnnifer I reeber is the one whon tried to be friends wit everybody.I wasn't watching during the JEnifer/Eve years so I have no clue how she was back then.
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camera shy


No matter what, they've left the door wide open for the baby to be alive. Anyone familiar with the woman from Argentina who gave birth to a stillborn and actually had her doctors proclaim the baby dead and the baby was found alive by her parents in the hospital morgue after they had insisted on seeing her? It's possible for doctors to make a mistake and it's also possible for a baby to survie their mother taking a stumble down the stairs.
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Courtneya6688
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In a soap any thing is possible but i really do believe nicoles baby is dead no matter how much i want him to turn up alive
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Courtneya6688
Oct 3 2012, 03:58 PM
In a soap any thing is possible but i really do believe nicoles baby is dead no matter how much i want him to turn up alive
At least for now. I don't think there is any intention to bring the baby back in the outlines as they exist today. I believe the intention of these writers is that Nicole's baby has died and the story they intend to tell is built on the fall out of that.

But like so many others have said there is always room to draft a story with an explanation as to how the baby really wasn't dead and the DiMeras (or any unnamed 'enemy') was responsible. Chelsea's swamp baby beginnings are proof of that. People are still hoping that Sydney's biology will be reversed at some point in time. On this show it just takes the stroke of a pen and what we see now that seems absolutely certain can be changed/undone/resurrected.
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camera shy


Courtneya6688
Oct 3 2012, 03:58 PM
In a soap any thing is possible but i really do believe nicoles baby is dead no matter how much i want him to turn up alive
Wait until Nov sweeps is over before you completely give up. ;)
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concerned
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Daysdegrassi
Oct 2 2012, 07:18 PM
concerned
Oct 2 2012, 04:48 PM
Harmony233
Oct 2 2012, 03:20 PM
gailwinters
Oct 2 2012, 02:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
at this point i'd rather EJ/Lucas hook up than either get back with sami lol
Sorry team EJady.
EJ is Brady's half-cousin! I'm all for EJafe, though! Or even EJonny (Sonny, not Johnny lol).
I don't think it matters that they are cousins ... its highly unlikely that they will procreate.

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Dayzlover4ever


there is always a chance for nicole to be a mother. if she gets w.down the road a child from a previous relationship could come to him from the mothers death or whatever.
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Dayzlover4ever


eric
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lazydazes
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i hope jennifer rots in her prison cell. She is a total b-i-a-t-c-h! Too bad she didn`t have all these emotions stirred up for her husband. Cannot stand the heiffer.
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Courtneya6688
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See my problem with nicole getting pregnant again i would be nervous the whole time the baby would die again. The only way i could accept eric is if he truly loves nicole and they allow the two of them to have honest good relationship with no secrets to come out and doom them
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Harmony233


Courtneya6688
Oct 3 2012, 07:45 PM
See my problem with nicole getting pregnant again i would be nervous the whole time the baby would die again. The only way i could accept eric is if he truly loves nicole and they allow the two of them to have honest good relationship with no secrets to come out and doom them
i can't take a third nicole pregnancy there too exhausting i'd rather she adopt at this point
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px780
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Streetcorner Philosopher

One positive- I'm curious about the Nicole/Chloe friendship, how it'll be when Nicole is around a kid after all this. Assuming, of course, the writers follow through on things.
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bomber
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Harmony233
Oct 3 2012, 07:50 PM
Courtneya6688
Oct 3 2012, 07:45 PM
See my problem with nicole getting pregnant again i would be nervous the whole time the baby would die again. The only way i could accept eric is if he truly loves nicole and they allow the two of them to have honest good relationship with no secrets to come out and doom them
i can't take a third nicole pregnancy there too exhausting i'd rather she adopt at this point
maybe they could write it that she doesn't know she's pregnant for a long time or else adopt. Either way she deserves a baby.
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