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Spoilers for the week of October 15th; *updated 10/9*
Topic Started: Oct 4 2012, 05:55 PM (49,718 Views)
six
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I'm not going to get my hopes up that this will last long, but I'm glad to see Rafe finally having to face the consequences of his actions. He's walked away from his crimes unscathed for far too long.

I'm also glad EJ is tricking Nicole, especially since AFAHK, his child is dead as a result of a completely preventable accident that only happened because Nicole decided to mooch off of Jennifer instead of letting EJ help provide for his unborn child.

Strange that Nick is just finding out about Will now. Guess the Hortons aren't gossipers.

Don't know and don't really care why Sami would feel used. Misled,yes, but used?

Dumb that John is dreaming about Kristen out of the blue after 14 years.

The Caroline story sounds like it's going to be full of flashbacks. That'll be nice, but I wish Bope would spend some private time doing more reminiscing. They really should have brought Shawn back, too.
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esp13
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SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
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Mirage75
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I rather see Sonny with his parents and uncle instead of being wasted with Will and Lameass John/St Bitch Marlena. Hell bring back T for Sonny to hang out with or bring back Brian.

Good time to bring Justin out for crazy bitch Jennifer!

Wow! EJ/Nicole can't even get scenes of truly mourning the death of their baby without some motive, etc...'. Instead we have to worry about how this affects Rafe and his Beast Sami?!!! WTF?

Unless Kristen kills Lame John and St. Bitch Marlena- then I'm not interested in her story with them.



Edited by Mirage75, Oct 9 2012, 04:05 PM.
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six
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esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
But Rafe has decided to keep a random person's child from him - it's what he did with Grace. And it might not actually be illegal (although it may actually be - as EJ said a few months ago, he's the legal father if the child was conceived during the marriage), due to physiology, but it should be. It's definitely wrong and has been in every story where a paternity switch was a plotline. And when you're a cop, you kind of need to uphold the law, not pick and choose the parts that work for you and happily spit on others when you see an opening to get back at someone.
Edited by six, Oct 9 2012, 04:11 PM.
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Ejole Lifer


Mirage75
Oct 9 2012, 03:55 PM
I rather see Sonny with his parents and uncle instead of being wasted with Will and Lameass John/St Bitch Marlena. Hell bring back T for Sonny to hang out with or bring back Brian.

Good time to bring Justin out for crazy bitch Jennifer!

Wow! EJ/Nicole can't even get scenes of truly mourning the death of their baby without some motive, etc...'. Instead we have to worry about how this affects Rafe and his Beast Sami?!!! WTF?

Unless Kristen kills Lame John and St. Bitch Marlena- then I'm not interested in her story with them.



Totally agree with all of this especially the Ejole part. Can't even grieve for their kid. Nicole gets shit on. Let this baby had been Sami's, she'd be having sex with EJ, Rafe, Lucas or someone else. Oh wait...
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LonePirate
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Mirage75
Oct 9 2012, 03:55 PM
I rather see Sonny with his parents and uncle instead of being wasted with Will and Lameass John/St Bitch Marlena. Hell bring back T for Sonny to hang out with or bring back Brian.



Look at it this way. When was the last time you saw a young gay couple propping a couple around 60 or so? At least it is original as it hasn't happened on this show before and I suspect it hasn't happened very often on any other television show.

As for brining back somebody for Sonny, I nominate Dustin. The guy (Taylor Frey) that plays him has a killer body which works in his favor since Days appears to be hiring models again instead of actors, although the guy is racking up acting experience as of late so tht may work against him.
Edited by LonePirate, Oct 9 2012, 04:11 PM.
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Mirage75
Oct 9 2012, 03:55 PM
I rather see Sonny with his parents and uncle instead of being wasted with Will and Lameass John/St Bitch Marlena. Hell bring back T for Sonny to hang out with or bring back Brian.

Good time to bring Justin out for crazy bitch Jennifer!

Wow! EJ/Nicole can't even mourn together. Instead we have to worry about how this affects Rafe and his Beast Sami?!!! WTF?

Unless Kristen kills Lame John and St. Bitch Marlena- then I'm not interested in her lame story with them.



ITA. They need to utilize Wally's talents. He's such a fine actor and should be featured prominently instead of a few times a month. Justin and Adrienne are one of the few couples I want to see more of. Days needs more romance with those two. :wub:

Not shocked that Ejole's dead baby is all about propping Safe and Dannifer. It should be about how it affects the parents. Sadly this show never learns. :shame:
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
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LanaluvsBroe
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SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
So much this! :applause: :applause: EJ is far from a good person but that does not give Rafe the right nor does it justify Rafe dictating whether EJ gets to raise his child or not. And the fact that he used an innocent child to get revenge on EJ for sleeping with Sami makes him look even worse. No man, not even Rafe, has the right to play God with a innocent child's life.
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esp13
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SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
Fair enough. I shouldn't have said anything to begin with since I have no desire to defend Rafe or anybody else in this stupid story. My bad.
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LanaluvsBroe
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Quote:
 
When the news finally reaches him that the child is gone, he’s left to grieve alone.


You know, no person, no matter how vile they may be, deserves to lose their child & then have to grieve that loss alone. :(
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justforfun


justforfun
Oct 9 2012, 01:02 PM
Ok...I missed some episodes around the explosion, but I thought the explosions would have happened anyway, regardless of Andrew dragging Melanie down to the tunnels. Is Gabi really to blame for them? Was something shown that I missed that would have made it Gabi's fault?


delete
Edited by justforfun, Oct 9 2012, 04:47 PM.
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lysie


SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM
crookedhalo
Oct 9 2012, 03:25 PM
but that's saying that Rafe didn't do it to protect this baby from a guy he doesn't consider such a great dad.
And this statement, in a nut shell, is why the character of Rafe sucks so much. Who is he to play God - determining the right someone may have to be a parent to their child? It's not his call if EJ, Nicole, Sami, Gabi, Will, or the random lady across the hall should have a relationship with their child - and it's sure as hell not his right to step in and take over the role. Not only is it unbelievably arrogant - it's also illegal.
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
I don't agree with this for the show or real life. If I lose my mind and sleep with some noted criminal whose family has history of losing children (grown or still little) in the crossfires of criminal activity, you better believe I'm going to hide whatever I get knocked up with. Every one of the characters that's been a part of this love hexagon of suck has valid reasons for not wanting their kids near the others and I don't blame any of them for these particular lies. I blame them for lots more things, but the child's right not to be a sitting target, IMO, trumps anyone's parental rights. Especially when they're all prone to giving up their parental rights anyway if the right romantic interest comes along.

Personally, I think what was done with Mickey/Laura/Bill was worse than any of this. Paternity switches have never been the crime of the century until they started involving EJ.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

esp13
Oct 9 2012, 04:38 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
Fair enough. I shouldn't have said anything to begin with since I have no desire to defend Rafe or anybody else in this stupid story. My bad.
LOL - not your bad at all. We all have our opinions - even on the stories we don't give a crap about. Which these days seem to outnumber the ones we do.
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esp13
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lysie
Oct 9 2012, 04:42 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
I don't agree with this for the show or real life. If I lose my mind and sleep with some noted criminal whose family has history of losing children (grown or still little) in the crossfires of criminal activity, you better believe I'm going to hide whatever I get knocked up with. Every one of the characters that's been a part of this love hexagon of suck has valid reasons for not wanting their kids near the others and I don't blame any of them for these particular lies. I blame them for lots more things, but the child's right not to be a sitting target, IMO, trumps anyone's parental rights. Especially when they're all prone to giving up their parental rights anyway if the right romantic interest comes along.

Personally, I think what was done with Mickey/Laura/Bill was worse than any of this. Paternity switches have never been the crime of the century until they started involving EJ.
THIS was the only point I was really trying to make. Thanks.
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justforfun


tomsawyer
Oct 9 2012, 01:06 PM
justforfun
Oct 9 2012, 01:02 PM
Ok...I missed some episodes around the explosion, but I thought the explosions would have happened anyway, regardless of Andrew dragging Melanie down to the tunnels. Is Gabi really to blame for them? Was something shown that I missed that would have made it Gabi's fault?
Andrew lit the match that started the explosions.
thx. i didn't see how it all started.
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six
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lysie
Oct 9 2012, 04:42 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 03:33 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm not disputing that Rafe sucks, but the guy didn't jump in and randomly decide that some random person didn't have a right to their child. It's EJ. The guy who was part of the scheme to kidnap Rafe, erase his memories, and put an imposter in his place. He has a valid basis for his views on the guy. He's not making judgments from on high, he's making judgments based on things that were done to HIM. I don't find it arrogant. Hell, it's not even illegal unless you want to make a conspiracy case regarding the paternity tests. Which, again, I'm not sure is even a crime. Daniel could lose his license for a violation of ethics, but I'm not sure what crime was committed. I'd have to look that one up.

In any case, Rafe has as much right to play God as anybody on this show who has ever kept a paternity secret does. Which is to say both as much as right as circumstances have granted them -- or none at all -- depending on whether you like the character or don't (or whether you like the character being deceived or don't).
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
I don't agree with this for the show or real life. If I lose my mind and sleep with some noted criminal whose family has history of losing children (grown or still little) in the crossfires of criminal activity, you better believe I'm going to hide whatever I get knocked up with. Every one of the characters that's been a part of this love hexagon of suck has valid reasons for not wanting their kids near the others and I don't blame any of them for these particular lies. I blame them for lots more things, but the child's right not to be a sitting target, IMO, trumps anyone's parental rights. Especially when they're all prone to giving up their parental rights anyway if the right romantic interest comes along.

Personally, I think what was done with Mickey/Laura/Bill was worse than any of this. Paternity switches have never been the crime of the century until they started involving EJ.
Leaving aside what you'd do in your personal life, since that's your business, I'm curious about why you think what happened to Mickey was worse than anything else? TBH, I really don't see how that's bad at all. The only person who originally got deceived was given a son and probably wouldn't have traded those moments for anything in the world. Although Mike did get hurt down the line, which is unfortunate, but unavoidable.

I also disagree that paternity lies have been treated as much worse now than they were prior to the ones that affected EJ. EJ went too far by kidnapping Sydney, but he goes too far with everything. And the path that story took is pretty similar to the story that developed from Will's paternity lie. I guess I'd like you to clarify that, too, since I'm trying and failing to think of a soap paternity lie that didn't lead to a lot of outrage, both on and off the show.
Edited by six, Oct 9 2012, 04:58 PM.
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lysie


six
Oct 9 2012, 04:55 PM
lysie
Oct 9 2012, 04:42 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM
esp13
Oct 9 2012, 03:53 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't care who the character is - nobody has a right to interfere with the relationship between a parent and child. It's not just that this is Rafe for me - I would feel the same way if EJ were claiming rights to a child we all knew was not his. What makes it all the more galling with Rafe is it's not the first time he's done this - and with EJ's kids.

Both Sami and Nicole willing had unprotected sex with EJ. Whether they later regretted doesn't negate the fact they chose to do it and they have no more right than Rafe (or anyone else) to then decide they don't want EJ to play a role in their child's life. In Nicole's case, it's even more hypocritical because right up until the moment she found out EJ had sex with Sami she was happily building a life with EJ. Nothing changed other than the fact that she found out (after the fact) he'd slept with Sami and not told her about it. She evidently found him to be fine father material up until that moment - thus the lengths she went to deceive him about this kid smack of nothing but jealousy. And Rafe entered into the lie knowing full well that Nicole and EJ had a mutual, consensual relationship that didn't end until the truth about the sex with Sami came out. How either of them went on to use that to justify their dictate that EJ should not be permitted to be a parent to his child is where the story fails. Their desire for revenge far outweighed any other concern - including what was best for the baby.
I don't agree with this for the show or real life. If I lose my mind and sleep with some noted criminal whose family has history of losing children (grown or still little) in the crossfires of criminal activity, you better believe I'm going to hide whatever I get knocked up with. Every one of the characters that's been a part of this love hexagon of suck has valid reasons for not wanting their kids near the others and I don't blame any of them for these particular lies. I blame them for lots more things, but the child's right not to be a sitting target, IMO, trumps anyone's parental rights. Especially when they're all prone to giving up their parental rights anyway if the right romantic interest comes along.

Personally, I think what was done with Mickey/Laura/Bill was worse than any of this. Paternity switches have never been the crime of the century until they started involving EJ.
Leaving aside what you'd do in your personal life, since that's your business, I'm curious about why you think what happened to Mickey was worse than anything else? TBH, I really don't see how that's bad at all. The only person who originally got deceived was given a son and probably wouldn't have traded those moments for anything in the world. Although Mike did get hurt down the line, which is unfortunate, but unavoidable.

I also disagree that paternity lies have been treated as much worse now than they were prior to the ones that affected EJ. EJ went too far by kidnapping Sydney, but he goes too far with everything. And the path that story took is pretty similar to the story that developed from Will's paternity lie.
I think it's worse for family to be all in on a secret like that against another family member.

No, the show doesn't treat it any differently. ;)
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Kritter. :puke:
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six
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lysie
Oct 9 2012, 04:58 PM
six
Oct 9 2012, 04:55 PM
lysie
Oct 9 2012, 04:42 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 9 2012, 04:14 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't agree with this for the show or real life. If I lose my mind and sleep with some noted criminal whose family has history of losing children (grown or still little) in the crossfires of criminal activity, you better believe I'm going to hide whatever I get knocked up with. Every one of the characters that's been a part of this love hexagon of suck has valid reasons for not wanting their kids near the others and I don't blame any of them for these particular lies. I blame them for lots more things, but the child's right not to be a sitting target, IMO, trumps anyone's parental rights. Especially when they're all prone to giving up their parental rights anyway if the right romantic interest comes along.

Personally, I think what was done with Mickey/Laura/Bill was worse than any of this. Paternity switches have never been the crime of the century until they started involving EJ.
Leaving aside what you'd do in your personal life, since that's your business, I'm curious about why you think what happened to Mickey was worse than anything else? TBH, I really don't see how that's bad at all. The only person who originally got deceived was given a son and probably wouldn't have traded those moments for anything in the world. Although Mike did get hurt down the line, which is unfortunate, but unavoidable.

I also disagree that paternity lies have been treated as much worse now than they were prior to the ones that affected EJ. EJ went too far by kidnapping Sydney, but he goes too far with everything. And the path that story took is pretty similar to the story that developed from Will's paternity lie.
I think it's worse for family to be all in on a secret like that against another family member.

No, the show doesn't treat it any differently. ;)
As for Mickey, I disagree, but see what you're saying. As for the other point, I definitely remember Mimi getting ripped to shreds by the shelles in particular, and I'm sure by others as well. The majority of the other stories took place before soap forums became popular (and maybe even before any dedicated soap boards existed) or included unpopular people, like Abe, but I don't believe Lucas fans weren't angry with what Sami did with Will, for example. I think it's impossible to accurately gauge and compare the reaction to those stories to these, when never before have so many people had the means to weigh in on the stories.
Edited by six, Oct 9 2012, 05:29 PM.
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