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Thursday, October 18th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM (8,176 Views)
lysie
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SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM
Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

Nicole left EJ with no choice but to prepare to take legal action to prevent her from giving his child to another man. He knew they were lying all along - and Nicole's offer to reunite with him and raise the baby together IF he left Salem with her certainly sealed her motive for denying the baby was his. It was all about her jealousy of Sami.

Rafe's insistence that EJ was a threat to the baby is asinine. Looking back, EJ and Sami never had issues co-parenting until Sami chose to hide the fact she was pregnant with EJ's baby from him. In fact, during the time that Sami was away in witness protection EJ worked hard to keep her foremost in Johnny's thoughts - insuring Johnny knew how much she loved him and wouldn't forget her during her absence. It was only after Sami opted to keep his daughter from him and Rafe conspired to try to adopt and raise her right under EJ's nose that EJ then retaliated with the Sydnapping. Was it a wise choice? No - definitely not. But up to that point EJ had always maintained a respectful co-parenting relationship with Sami, despite the fact they were not together romantically. He just had no idea she wasn't doing the same.

Nicole knew all of this - she had a front row seat as it unfolded. So for her (and Rafe) to now claim EJ would have 'stolen' her baby from her is stupid. Nicole knew better than anyone that EJ never intended to do that with Johnny (before finding out Grace/Sydney was his) - she had no reason to believe EJ would have done it to her UNTIL she started lying and trying to prevent him from having a relationship with their child. She reaped what she sowed.
They had issues coparenting before Johnny was even born. And twice before Sami hid her pregnancy, EJ got court orders. Custody issues in Salem are just stupid. They all live a minute and a half apart. I wish they'd all just coparent those kids right out of Salem.
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nolagirl
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SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM
Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

Nicole left EJ with no choice but to prepare to take legal action to prevent her from giving his child to another man. He knew they were lying all along - and Nicole's offer to reunite with him and raise the baby together IF he left Salem with her certainly sealed her motive for denying the baby was his. It was all about her jealousy of Sami.

Rafe's insistence that EJ was a threat to the baby is asinine. Looking back, EJ and Sami never had issues co-parenting until Sami chose to hide the fact she was pregnant with EJ's baby from him. In fact, during the time that Sami was away in witness protection EJ worked hard to keep her foremost in Johnny's thoughts - insuring Johnny knew how much she loved him and wouldn't forget her during her absence. It was only after Sami opted to keep his daughter from him and Rafe conspired to try to adopt and raise her right under EJ's nose that EJ then retaliated with the Sydnapping. Was it a wise choice? No - definitely not. But up to that point EJ had always maintained a respectful co-parenting relationship with Sami, despite the fact they were not together romantically. He just had no idea she wasn't doing the same.

Nicole knew all of this - she had a front row seat as it unfolded. So for her (and Rafe) to now claim EJ would have 'stolen' her baby from her is stupid. Nicole knew better than anyone that EJ never intended to do that with Johnny (before finding out Grace/Sydney was his) - she had no reason to believe EJ would have done it to her UNTIL she started lying and trying to prevent him from having a relationship with their child. She reaped what she sowed.
Very good a valid points BUT don't you see the irony in what all you stated. Sami knew EJ to be a good parent but decided during her pregnancy that he was this horrible person. Why? Jealous that Nicole was also carrying EJ's baby and he was with Nicole, so she couldn't let EJ get a hold of the child she was carrying. Now Nicole does the exact same thing for supposedly the exact same reason, jealous of Sami.

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Hamilton
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camera shy
Oct 19 2012, 09:56 AM
Actually, I wish Rafe had stood there and run down for Sami all the reasons why he wanted to get revenge on EJ while EJ was still in the room. Hmmmm.......lets where he could start......because he played a part in putting a ex-convict in my wife's bed and let her get raped night after night...... And then I wish he had said to Sami, "Do you remember that? Oh and make yourself comfortable EJ because this might take a while. But Sami I'll tell you one thing I do regret is not running it by Nicole first about letting you help us keep the baby away from EJ. I should have at least checked with Nicole first on that......now where was I?" But this show doesn't have the common sense to hit every angle which would have made for a more interesting scene.
I wonder if Ej would be so eager to pursue Sami knowing how quickly she was ready to jump on board and hide another baby from him? She didn't think twice about it dude.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

nolagirl
Oct 19 2012, 01:44 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM
Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

Nicole left EJ with no choice but to prepare to take legal action to prevent her from giving his child to another man. He knew they were lying all along - and Nicole's offer to reunite with him and raise the baby together IF he left Salem with her certainly sealed her motive for denying the baby was his. It was all about her jealousy of Sami.

Rafe's insistence that EJ was a threat to the baby is asinine. Looking back, EJ and Sami never had issues co-parenting until Sami chose to hide the fact she was pregnant with EJ's baby from him. In fact, during the time that Sami was away in witness protection EJ worked hard to keep her foremost in Johnny's thoughts - insuring Johnny knew how much she loved him and wouldn't forget her during her absence. It was only after Sami opted to keep his daughter from him and Rafe conspired to try to adopt and raise her right under EJ's nose that EJ then retaliated with the Sydnapping. Was it a wise choice? No - definitely not. But up to that point EJ had always maintained a respectful co-parenting relationship with Sami, despite the fact they were not together romantically. He just had no idea she wasn't doing the same.

Nicole knew all of this - she had a front row seat as it unfolded. So for her (and Rafe) to now claim EJ would have 'stolen' her baby from her is stupid. Nicole knew better than anyone that EJ never intended to do that with Johnny (before finding out Grace/Sydney was his) - she had no reason to believe EJ would have done it to her UNTIL she started lying and trying to prevent him from having a relationship with their child. She reaped what she sowed.
Very good a valid points BUT don't you see the irony in what all you stated. Sami knew EJ to be a good parent but decided during her pregnancy that he was this horrible person. Why? Jealous that Nicole was also carrying EJ's baby and he was with Nicole, so she couldn't let EJ get a hold of the child she was carrying. Now Nicole does the exact same thing for supposedly the exact same reason, jealous of Sami.

I definitely see the irony - or even more to the point, the rehashed story line.

I've never thought either one of them had a sound or solid reason for hiding their pregnancy from EJ. In Sami's case they did try to add some substance to it with having her see the mayor being murdered on the DiMera's doorstep - but that was after the fact and pretty flimsy, at best. But Nicole didn't even get that much help from the writers.
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nolagirl
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SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 02:44 PM
nolagirl
Oct 19 2012, 01:44 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM
Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

Nicole left EJ with no choice but to prepare to take legal action to prevent her from giving his child to another man. He knew they were lying all along - and Nicole's offer to reunite with him and raise the baby together IF he left Salem with her certainly sealed her motive for denying the baby was his. It was all about her jealousy of Sami.

Rafe's insistence that EJ was a threat to the baby is asinine. Looking back, EJ and Sami never had issues co-parenting until Sami chose to hide the fact she was pregnant with EJ's baby from him. In fact, during the time that Sami was away in witness protection EJ worked hard to keep her foremost in Johnny's thoughts - insuring Johnny knew how much she loved him and wouldn't forget her during her absence. It was only after Sami opted to keep his daughter from him and Rafe conspired to try to adopt and raise her right under EJ's nose that EJ then retaliated with the Sydnapping. Was it a wise choice? No - definitely not. But up to that point EJ had always maintained a respectful co-parenting relationship with Sami, despite the fact they were not together romantically. He just had no idea she wasn't doing the same.

Nicole knew all of this - she had a front row seat as it unfolded. So for her (and Rafe) to now claim EJ would have 'stolen' her baby from her is stupid. Nicole knew better than anyone that EJ never intended to do that with Johnny (before finding out Grace/Sydney was his) - she had no reason to believe EJ would have done it to her UNTIL she started lying and trying to prevent him from having a relationship with their child. She reaped what she sowed.
Very good a valid points BUT don't you see the irony in what all you stated. Sami knew EJ to be a good parent but decided during her pregnancy that he was this horrible person. Why? Jealous that Nicole was also carrying EJ's baby and he was with Nicole, so she couldn't let EJ get a hold of the child she was carrying. Now Nicole does the exact same thing for supposedly the exact same reason, jealous of Sami.

I definitely see the irony - or even more to the point, the rehashed story line.

I've never thought either one of them had a sound or solid reason for hiding their pregnancy from EJ. In Sami's case they did try to add some substance to it with having her see the mayor being murdered on the DiMera's doorstep - but that was after the fact and pretty flimsy, at best. But Nicole didn't even get that much help from the writers.
Quite true and the worst part is that both of these ladies is a disgrace to the women they were. Both always had street smarts and never needed the White Knight Hero but for some reason since Rafe and Mr. Perv came to town that's all the writers want to do is push Walt Disney's version of men on the viewers while most would rather watch men with a dark streak.

If we wanted Disney's we'd watch that channel. :blink:
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

nolagirl
Oct 19 2012, 03:36 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 02:44 PM
nolagirl
Oct 19 2012, 01:44 PM
SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Very good a valid points BUT don't you see the irony in what all you stated. Sami knew EJ to be a good parent but decided during her pregnancy that he was this horrible person. Why? Jealous that Nicole was also carrying EJ's baby and he was with Nicole, so she couldn't let EJ get a hold of the child she was carrying. Now Nicole does the exact same thing for supposedly the exact same reason, jealous of Sami.

I definitely see the irony - or even more to the point, the rehashed story line.

I've never thought either one of them had a sound or solid reason for hiding their pregnancy from EJ. In Sami's case they did try to add some substance to it with having her see the mayor being murdered on the DiMera's doorstep - but that was after the fact and pretty flimsy, at best. But Nicole didn't even get that much help from the writers.
Quite true and the worst part is that both of these ladies is a disgrace to the women they were. Both always had street smarts and never needed the White Knight Hero but for some reason since Rafe and Mr. Perv came to town that's all the writers want to do is push Walt Disney's version of men on the viewers while most would rather watch men with a dark streak.

If we wanted Disney's we'd watch that channel. :blink:
Quoted for truth!
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BeeBee
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Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Tina227
Oct 18 2012, 11:47 PM
I'm glad that Sami told Rafe off, because everything she said to him was true. The issue was that Rafe lied to her after he promised to forgive her and not keep secrets from each other anymore. HE made her feel like crap for saying that he wasn't the father of Nicole's baby, and kept saying he was the father. Sami is upset because he made it look like she was the devil for keeping a secret, and it was alright for him to do it. Rafe took no responsibility, and blamed it on everyone else. We all know NIcole didn't come up with the lie he did so he pushed her under the bus. Then he said he lied because EJ would've taken the child away from Nicole which is another lie, becaue EJ wasn't going to do that until they tried to keep him from his child. We all know if Sami did that to Rafe he would kick her to the curb, and she is supposed to be the one to suck it up. Rafe was supposed to be this honest trustworthy guy, and Sami's rose colored glasses were finally broken today and I am happy. Rafe is a jerk, and he proved it in the way he acted on today's show. Sami said she understood why they lied, but Rafe didn't have to keep saying that the baby was his after the baby died. Sami is upset because Rafe didn't trust her, and she really tried to make it work this time around. Sami isn't perfect, but she did try to make up for hurting him, and made her feel like she was the one in the wrong about his lies. Rafe did tell Carrie the truth, and lets be honest there are some people that get under your skin, and Rafe knows how Sami feels about Carrie and NIcole. So lets be honest if someone did this crap to you would you let it go or be upset? Put yourself in her shoes and how would you react to Rafe in this situation?
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

If I was in Sami's shoes I would be hurt, at first. Then I would realize that it's actually a good thing to know that he hasn't slept with Nicole and they weren't having a baby together. He told her months ago that he hadn't slept with Nicole, and he wasn't lying then so that again, is a good thing.

Putting myself in Sami's shoes would also mean that EJ wouldn't have made it past my front door to get in and tattle (like a 5 year old) on Rafe. The door would be slamed in the face of the #1 liar, baby kidnapper, husband kidnapper, clone maker...etc in Salem.

IF he had been worthy of being Danny's father he would have stayed at the hospital to try and see his son instead of heading out to try and hurt Sami and Rafe.
Rafe took responsibility by telling Sami what EJ said about the baby was true.Rafe took responsility by explaining his belief (right or wrong) that he did not feel it was his secret to tell and he was upset earlier because he did not want to hurt her by lying which was why he was upset earlier.Before Rafe left the hospital ,Nicole did say to Rafe they should continue with the lie.Rafe told Carrie about the lie only because they were in the safe house with the bomb ticking and they thought they were going to dieSami has not really given Rafe any reason to trust her.Even when they were making up in Horton Square,she lied to him and said she received a work related text when in fact the text was from EJ.She committed a crime by helping EJ go on the run and involved her own son in that criminal behavior in order to help "the father of two of her children".Sami not being perfect is an understatement.She is a lying conniving hypocritical tramp who tried to make Rafe feel responsible for the breakup for their marriage because he kissed and cared for Carrie as though her having sex with the man who kidnapped and attempted to brain wash him after he risked his career to help her conceal the fact that she shot EJ in the head.Rafe has more reason to hold it against Sami that she had sex with EJ than Sami has to hold it against him that he lied to EJ for Nicole and was kissing/"emotionally unfaithful" with Carrie.If I was in Sami's shoes and Rafe forgave me for all of the crap I recently did with EJ ,I would thank him.
I almost laughed when Sami said Rafe was using her for sex.After Rafe told Sami about the baby instead of just holding him,she started kissing his neck and pawing him like a dog in heat.When Rafe stopped kissing her,Sami said,"It's okay.This was a mistake."Rafe said,"Yeah,it was.".Sami said,"I understand.You don't want to be touched.
You just need to take time.You take all the time you need."Sami is the one who's motor starts revving when there is a dead baby not Rafe.

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spartan
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If Rafe only told Carrie because he thought they were gonna die, that should make it even worse for Sami. By saying that he's telling her he loved Carrie so much she needed to know the truth before they 'died'. Otherwise, why else the hell would it matter? They were gonna die. So what.

Sami wake up and realize Rafe is just another guy who would prefer your sister over you given another real chance.
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nananana7


nolagirl
Oct 19 2012, 03:36 PM
that's all the writers want to do is push Walt Disney's version of men on the viewers while most would rather watch men with a dark streak.

If we wanted Disney's we'd watch that channel. :blink:
I'm neither an EJ fan nor a Rafe fan.

Certainly not a Daniel fan!

I've never liked men with an evil side.

But I'm not into bland goody-two-shoes men, either.

I like men who feel *real* -- and are honest but imperfectly human, with some derring-do, who have some hot fire, and care passionately about the right thing, but occasionally make big mistakes.

I was into Justin and into Bo ... when they were a bit younger.

But there is nobody in the under-40 crowd now that interests me.

I liked Jack when they gave him something real and substantial to do, but I didn't like it when they made him into a buffoon.

If the various teams of writers gave Lucas something substantial to do, I might be interested. But cuteness and scheming aren't enough for me. I think Bryan D. could do a lot more, if the writers gave him something.
Edited by nananana7, Oct 20 2012, 12:25 AM.
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concerned
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SocRMum1
Oct 19 2012, 09:13 AM
Vicky4Mimi
Oct 19 2012, 12:26 AM
Ej has been making plans with Justin to take the baby away from Nicole. So yes he was planning to do that, just as Nicole and Rafe said he would. They were 100% in the right to hide the baby from him.

Nicole left EJ with no choice but to prepare to take legal action to prevent her from giving his child to another man. He knew they were lying all along - and Nicole's offer to reunite with him and raise the baby together IF he left Salem with her certainly sealed her motive for denying the baby was his. It was all about her jealousy of Sami.

Rafe's insistence that EJ was a threat to the baby is asinine. Looking back, EJ and Sami never had issues co-parenting until Sami chose to hide the fact she was pregnant with EJ's baby from him. In fact, during the time that Sami was away in witness protection EJ worked hard to keep her foremost in Johnny's thoughts - insuring Johnny knew how much she loved him and wouldn't forget her during her absence. It was only after Sami opted to keep his daughter from him and Rafe conspired to try to adopt and raise her right under EJ's nose that EJ then retaliated with the Sydnapping. Was it a wise choice? No - definitely not. But up to that point EJ had always maintained a respectful co-parenting relationship with Sami, despite the fact they were not together romantically. He just had no idea she wasn't doing the same.

Nicole knew all of this - she had a front row seat as it unfolded. So for her (and Rafe) to now claim EJ would have 'stolen' her baby from her is stupid. Nicole knew better than anyone that EJ never intended to do that with Johnny (before finding out Grace/Sydney was his) - she had no reason to believe EJ would have done it to her UNTIL she started lying and trying to prevent him from having a relationship with their child. She reaped what she sowed.
:hail:
wishing this would be pointed out more often.
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King
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This is the first episode I've liked Sami in in legit YEARS.
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Hamilton
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spartan
Oct 19 2012, 09:49 PM
If Rafe only told Carrie because he thought they were gonna die, that should make it even worse for Sami. By saying that he's telling her he loved Carrie so much she needed to know the truth before they 'died'. Otherwise, why else the hell would it matter? They were gonna die. So what.

Sami wake up and realize Rafe is just another guy who would prefer your sister over you given another real chance.
Maybe he just wanted to clear his conscience before he died? If it had been Sami there maybe he would have told her the truth too. I'd say a man who would forgive a woman for having sex with his most hated enemy, one who tortured him, locked him away in a mental institute and erased all his memories is showing a more 'loving' gesture than one who spills a secret before dying.

If Rafe really preferred Carrie why didn't he ever fight for having a relationship? He was wimpy on that count and seemed more content to just go through the motions of 'having feelings' rather than give them any merit. IMO Carrie was just a distraction for Rafe.
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spartan
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Hamilton
Oct 20 2012, 10:23 AM
spartan
Oct 19 2012, 09:49 PM
If Rafe only told Carrie because he thought they were gonna die, that should make it even worse for Sami. By saying that he's telling her he loved Carrie so much she needed to know the truth before they 'died'. Otherwise, why else the hell would it matter? They were gonna die. So what.

Sami wake up and realize Rafe is just another guy who would prefer your sister over you given another real chance.
Maybe he just wanted to clear his conscience before he died? If it had been Sami there maybe he would have told her the truth too. I'd say a man who would forgive a woman for having sex with his most hated enemy, one who tortured him, locked him away in a mental institute and erased all his memories is showing a more 'loving' gesture than one who spills a secret before dying.

If Rafe really preferred Carrie why didn't he ever fight for having a relationship? He was wimpy on that count and seemed more content to just go through the motions of 'having feelings' rather than give them any merit. IMO Carrie was just a distraction for Rafe.
I don't see Carrie as a distraction at all because Rafe starting getting all hot for her while he and Sami were together before he had any inkling of grief sex. If it were after that, I would definitely buy into that more, but it wasn't.

I don't know why Rafe didn't fight for Carrie. It played that he was trying to do the stand up thing, because Austin was such a great guy who deserved to raise his child with his wife. Obviously, behind the scenes it was a quick, non-sensical wrap up to usher PM and CC off screen.

I wish Rafe would have fought for Carrie. I happened to enjoy the Cafe chemistry. I thought they had something despite the piss poor way they were writing them. Rafe loving Carrie totally fit because that's they type of girl he always wanted Sami to be even before Carrie stepped back into Salem and he met her. I don't see Sami when she's with Rafe. I see Sami trying to be Carrie and I've been saying that before it was announced Christie Clark was coming back.

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Hamilton
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spartan
Oct 20 2012, 11:30 AM
Hamilton
Oct 20 2012, 10:23 AM
spartan
Oct 19 2012, 09:49 PM
If Rafe only told Carrie because he thought they were gonna die, that should make it even worse for Sami. By saying that he's telling her he loved Carrie so much she needed to know the truth before they 'died'. Otherwise, why else the hell would it matter? They were gonna die. So what.

Sami wake up and realize Rafe is just another guy who would prefer your sister over you given another real chance.
Maybe he just wanted to clear his conscience before he died? If it had been Sami there maybe he would have told her the truth too. I'd say a man who would forgive a woman for having sex with his most hated enemy, one who tortured him, locked him away in a mental institute and erased all his memories is showing a more 'loving' gesture than one who spills a secret before dying.

If Rafe really preferred Carrie why didn't he ever fight for having a relationship? He was wimpy on that count and seemed more content to just go through the motions of 'having feelings' rather than give them any merit. IMO Carrie was just a distraction for Rafe.
I don't see Carrie as a distraction at all because Rafe starting getting all hot for her while he and Sami were together before he had any inkling of grief sex. If it were after that, I would definitely buy into that more, but it wasn't.

I don't know why Rafe didn't fight for Carrie. It played that he was trying to do the stand up thing, because Austin was such a great guy who deserved to raise his child with his wife. Obviously, behind the scenes it was a quick, non-sensical wrap up to usher PM and CC off screen.

I wish Rafe would have fought for Carrie. I happened to enjoy the Cafe chemistry. I thought they had something despite the piss poor way they were writing them. Rafe loving Carrie totally fit because that's they type of girl he always wanted Sami to be even before Carrie stepped back into Salem and he met her. I don't see Sami when she's with Rafe. I see Sami trying to be Carrie and I've been saying that before it was announced Christie Clark was coming back.

Nah, still not buying it as all hot for Carrie over Sami. When they fought over the kiss Rafe said that things had been off in their marriage and that Sami had been distant and pulling away. He felt she still blamed him for his part in the shooting. He carried a lot of guilt over his insistence the family join John at the pub and I got the impression he was hurt Sami was acting out of repressed blame. He was not happy with the state of their relationship. If their marriage was in tip top shape and Carrie hadn't been making the obvious play for Rafe that we saw since she hit town I might feel differently. It was pretty obvious that Carrie definitely had Rafe in her sights and was more than eager to offer herself up to him. The girl was all smiles, hugs and compliments. I think any disheartened guy would be hard pressed to respond to the constant flirting she was initiating. After the kiss Rafe apologized profusely to Sami, wrote her the letter telling her he wanted her, quit his job with Carrie and kept showing up at the loft begging to return and in fact the scene with Marlena, Sami and Rafe you could tell they were at the point of working through it. Then the grief sex came out and Rafe cut Sami out of his life. To me that is not choosing Carrie over Sami.

The whole thing with Austin was just ridiculous writing. Carrie kept Austin in her back pocket the whole time while Rafe seemed to meander along content to accept that they had 'feelings' for each other that couldn't amount to anything. Not the actions of a guy crazy in love imo. I think Carrie's pregnancy just gave Rafe an easy out. He could appease her that he was disappointed and doing the stand up thing. Feeling good about himself in the situation by stepping aside was more important than making a future work. Why would Rafe want Carrie stuck in a loveless marriage if he cared so deeply for her? All these actions make me believe Carrie was an attractive substitute and not someone Rafe really loved and especially not as a choice over Sami considering the actions I've seen him take to pursue a future with her.

As much as it's touted that Rafe wants Sami to be Carrie-like, I don't buy that either. I think Rafe thrives on the chaos Sami brings to his life. He needs that drama and I believe even told her once his life was boring and predictable before he met her and he was unhappy living that way. He doesn't like Sami lying to him, but I do believe he gets off on all the craziness she draws him into. Carrie would never had been a lasting match for Rafe because she offers none of that for him.
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