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Tuesday, November 13th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 12 2012, 02:21 PM (11,297 Views)
lysie
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I missed the rest of that segment because I was trying to make a digital whale. I'm only mentioning this to highlight how bored I am today. This coming from the person who's looking forward to a book club spoiler.
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lysie
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WTH are these music cues? It sounds like Sybil.
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lysie
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Dan and Nicole's recap of how Daniel figured it out is just as lame as when he actually found out.
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lysie
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Sami's concern for Gabi is so stupid. And inappropriate. And she's like Maggie in 2002.
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six
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lysie
Nov 13 2012, 08:37 PM
I've passed out before. No one has ever offered to take me to the ER.
You have to hang out with better people.
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lysie
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OMG. Just make out or something. WilSon are so dull when they talk.
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lysie
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six
Nov 13 2012, 09:07 PM
lysie
Nov 13 2012, 08:37 PM
I've passed out before. No one has ever offered to take me to the ER.
You have to hang out with better people.
I don't disagree with this at all.
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annie21


esp13
Nov 13 2012, 05:34 PM
annie21
Nov 13 2012, 05:18 PM
esp13
Nov 13 2012, 01:55 PM
rpmaluki
Nov 13 2012, 01:49 PM
Rafe and Daniel chose to stick their noses in her business without her asking. they volunteered, she didn't canvass their participation. Nicole gave Rafe and Daniel plenty of outs but they didn't take them. she was prepared to deal with EJ on her own but those two douches wanted to save the damsel they believed she was. Nicole was no ringleader in this mess, a central figure yes.
I'm pretty sure Nicole did ask Daniel to switch the paternity tests in one way or another. It was still his choice, but I don't think he came up with the idea all on his own. And regardless of who volunteered or how many outs she gave them, the decision was still Nicole's. It was her secret they were keeping FOR her. They both had their own motivations, but it was still HER secret. She was the one that controlled if and when it came out. And, in fact, when she finally did tell the truth to EJ, she did so without regard to how it was going to affect Daniel and Rafe. And despite the fact that it put them both in a very bad position, they still supported her.
IIRC, Nicole had already arranged to have the DNA test results switched. Daniel didn't change them. He found out what Nicole was up to. She asked him not to tell. And he eventually agreed. They sealed the deal on his desk, among other places.

Once he made the decision to agree to keep her secret, Daniel was all into the conspiracy. There were lots of talks and discussions between him and Nicole, him and Rafe, and among all three of them. They all constantly justified their decisions to keep quiet.

I'm sorry, but I disagree that it was HER secret. Daniel, as a medical professional, was bound by an ethics code, state board regulations, and federal and state laws, not to keep that secret. Rafe was bound by the same laws, and as an officer of the law, is even more at fault for not reporting the crime.

They both are accessories after the fact. The Salem PD should be as aggressive -- or even more so -- in going after these two fine, upstanding citizens as they were to go after Jennifer or Nicole or EJ or whomever. If not the Salem PD, then the state should step in. Instead, all we got was a brief second where EJ considered exposing them as part of his dastardly revenge scheming.

The fact that Daniel and Rafe's illegal and unethical behavior is being portrayed as "compassionate" and "self-sacrifcing" and "supportive" is one of the many problems with this storyline.

If it wasn't her secret, then who's secret was it? She was the one who was pregnant and knew who the father was. It wasn't Rafe's secret or Daniel's secret. Sure, Daniel violated all kinds of ethical rules and Rafe did as well, but it still wasn't their secret. Although, to be fair, I guess the fact of the paternity test switch was probably Daniel's since he did that.

And, again, I'm not sure how the Salem PD can go after something they don't know about. EJ isn't pressing charges and, to my knowledge, nobody has told anybody in the Salem PD (aside from Rafe who doesn't really count on this issue) that the paternity tests were actually switched. Hope knows EJ was the father, but as far as I know, she doesn't know anything about the tests.

Illegal and unethical behavior is often viewed as compassionate and self-sacrificing when the motives fit the description. And strict adherence to procedure and legality is viewed as cold and unfeeling when it subverts a good deed. It's always been that way on this show and this is no different.
I definitely agree with your last statement in principle, but I think the biggest disconnect you and I are having is that you seem to generally accept the story that is being presented whereas I am outside that story and not liking the way the writers have structured it.

As for whose secret it is, I'm not sure I accept the premise that one person can OWN the truth. But let's just go with that and say that, yes, the paternity of Nicole's baby is her secret. We can even go with the fact that she broke the law and tampered with DNA results is her secret. (Again, Daniel didn't actually switch the results. He just chose not to switch them back when he found out about it. Still a crime, but after the fact.)

Here's the thing. As soon as Daniel learned the truth and didn't make any effort to rectify it -- even went to great lengths to hide it -- he broke the law and several state board medical regulations and ethics codes. The show even acknowledged that with Jennifer's concern that he would lose his license. Sorry, but in my view, the fact that Daniel broke laws is HIS secret. Same with Rafe. In order to keep Nicole's secret, he broke laws. And that was HIS secret to carry around.

Meanwhile, in order for Nicole to keep HER secret going, she had to rely on the other two as accomplices. If neither had gotten involved, Nicole's secret would have been short-lived. Even if we accept that it was HER secret, that doesn't have any meaning in a court of law. If they were caught, they would all be charged and potentially serve time in jail. Wouldn't matter to a court who started it, except maybe in the matter of sentencing/damage awards.

As for Nicole telling EJ, she was on medication at the time and he manipulated her into telling him what he basically already knew.

Yes, it's true that the Salem PD didn't find out about Rafe and Daniel's role in this. But that's because EJ chose not to bring the matter to light (and everyone else who knew, including Jennifer) chose to keep quiet.

That in fact is my problem with how the story was presented. Why did the writers only let one secret come out? Why was that the only one that led to any consequences for anyone? These other guys basically got away with breaking all kinds of laws, yet they are depicted as loving and forgiving and good friends. Maybe they are, but they also are incredibly lucky to still have their jobs and their reputations and their freedom. Just a little more acknowledgement of their culpability -- even if it's only among themselves at this point, would be something. What we get instead are a sentence or two of "I'm not perfect," immediately negated by the people around them, who brush it all aside and heap praises on them instead.

I've said before that I'm not a Nicole fan, so I'm not defending her. But frankly, in the long-term, I think her character will end up faring the best in this storyline precisely because she is being called to task and is having to face up to what she did and deal with the consequences. Soon, we're told, she's even going to apologize.

Meanwhile, in my view, the other characters in the saga haven't fared so well. They've gotten away with at the least rude and shrewish behavior (Jen) and at the most unethical and criminal behavior (Rafe and Daniel). The writers are not doing these characters any good by letting them just move on as if they themselves did nothing wrong. I don't care about the others. But as a long-term Jennifer fan, I do care that this story has further weakened her at the expense of the writers' larger agenda.

I'm glad you're able to enjoy the show and accept the parameters as laid out by the current regime. As for me, I'm still in the category of "was once a dedicated viewer and would like to be again once writers who actually care about the show come along."




Edited by annie21, Nov 13 2012, 09:28 PM.
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lysie
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Oh Nicole is seeing that five foot ledge she almost jumped off of.
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Ireland98


lysie
Nov 13 2012, 09:03 PM
Dan and Nicole's recap of how Daniel figured it out is just as lame as when he actually found out.
What I'll remember most about the November 2012 sleeps..I mean sweeps... was the twosie! That was the highlight for sure!
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lysie
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I mean, University Hospital has itself some halls!
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concerned
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Ireland98
Nov 13 2012, 09:11 PM
lysie
Nov 13 2012, 09:03 PM
Dan and Nicole's recap of how Daniel figured it out is just as lame as when he actually found out.
What I'll remember most about the November 2012 sleeps..I mean sweeps... was the twosie! That was the highlight for sure!
If only there was a section for inanimate objects to win Emmys.
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lysie
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I'm so disappointed that's all we get of Eric. And it doesn't sound like we get much more tomorrow.
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lysie
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It's like...I'm glad that they're putting some focus on the 20s and giving them real stories. But then again...I don't like any of them except Abby.
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lysie
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I really wish they'd have found a different way to have Sami find out. I think her knowing puts her in an interesting position, but with no real focus on them ever having a relationship just makes it seem silly.
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esp13
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lysie
Nov 13 2012, 09:09 PM
six
Nov 13 2012, 09:07 PM
lysie
Nov 13 2012, 08:37 PM
I've passed out before. No one has ever offered to take me to the ER.
You have to hang out with better people.
I don't disagree with this at all.
Hey!!
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Partnersincrime
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michr544125
Nov 13 2012, 08:43 PM
I hate what they have done to Lucas. I just don't get where he is coming from. I get him being protective over his son. But he knows Sonny is not the kind of person to hurt Will. I also get he is having trouble coping with his son being gay. But his attitude just seems to over the top. On the other hand I am loving the Sami and Will scenes.

I didn't mind the Sonny and Cameron scenes. It came from nowhere but it was nice to see Sonny talk to a friend.

Sonny and Will's conversation was great. I loved Sonny calling Will hot and Will leading them back to Sonny's place. Loved the hot kissing at the apartment.

The fainting by Gabi was just terrible. That was just not very well acted at all.
i do the head writer hate him

the all point the episode to try portray as big bad bigot and like lucas would never

problem if will was dating girl while lucas did had problem when will dating girl he had problem will dating mia tomsell try rewrite it despite they are that wrote in first place
like they did rewrite justin and adrianne never had problem while when sonny just got to salem he told victor they had problem

they never even bother to write how lucas knows about bryan

adrianne and sami already call lucas bigot and everyone call it on him lucas problem is will being gay


they Deliberately show disparity to lucas scenes to others like kate about will and sonny unlike lucas and of course adianne and sonny comapre will

nick the science geek the all sudden became about Religion and that why is not uncomfortable with wilson
T became wilson match maker
lucas does not not have point view and and very littlie airtime to guess it
he went in month which he had only been in 3 epiosdes from the beginning of the month saying to wilson any idiot can see you meant for each other to the end of the month he is telling billie sonny is using will
sonny written close to sainthood so of course if lucas has problem with sonny there something wrong
lucas is simply set out to be villan to wlison fans which seem to works to almost of wilson fans you do not believe how many posts of wilson fans i read bashing lucas and want him gone or someone will hit him and being horrible to wilson and will


sami and will can not be unit for lucas but they sure can be unit against him how wonderful :rolleyes:


lucas going from this from mardr
Posted Image

Posted Image



to now sonny is user :soapbox:
Edited by Partnersincrime, Nov 14 2012, 09:42 AM.
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nolagirl
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Ireland98
Nov 13 2012, 09:11 PM
lysie
Nov 13 2012, 09:03 PM
Dan and Nicole's recap of how Daniel figured it out is just as lame as when he actually found out.
What I'll remember most about the November 2012 sleeps..I mean sweeps... was the twosie! That was the highlight for sure!
Yes that twosie that unraveled the mystery for all, who knew clothing could play such a large part. But then Scarf sniffing has also played a role for Day's, we're always saying it's the little things :'(
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peaches179


lysie
Nov 13 2012, 09:10 PM
Oh Nicole is seeing that five foot ledge she almost jumped off of.

LOL. This storyline has been ridiculous from beginning to end. :rolleyes:
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peaches179


lysie
Nov 13 2012, 08:51 PM
WilSon are just so dull.

I agree.
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