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Spoilers for the week of December 17th; *updated 12/7*
Topic Started: Nov 30 2012, 09:05 PM (30,753 Views)
Bright Eyes
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lysie
Dec 9 2012, 06:28 PM
Tammy
Dec 8 2012, 11:47 PM
lysie
Nov 30 2012, 09:05 PM
Friday ("Thorn Birds's Guilty Feelings")
Chompers understands why The Diva has feelings for two different men.
Hey The Diva your mother would understand it too... if you didn't bash her about it every two seconds! :flipoff:
I don't know how either understands it since it's not even happening. Based on what's airing she doesn't seem to have significant feelings for either of them.
I feel the same way. She just likes the attention after years of being the ugly duckling of sorts.
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Tammy
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lysie
Dec 9 2012, 06:28 PM
Tammy
Dec 8 2012, 11:47 PM
lysie
Nov 30 2012, 09:05 PM
Friday ("Thorn Birds's Guilty Feelings")
Chompers understands why The Diva has feelings for two different men.
Hey The Diva your mother would understand it too... if you didn't bash her about it every two seconds! :flipoff:
I don't know how either understands it since it's not even happening. Based on what's airing she doesn't seem to have significant feelings for either of them.
True!
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

Tammy
Dec 10 2012, 11:15 AM
lysie
Dec 9 2012, 06:28 PM
Tammy
Dec 8 2012, 11:47 PM
lysie
Nov 30 2012, 09:05 PM
Friday ("Thorn Birds's Guilty Feelings")
Chompers understands why The Diva has feelings for two different men.
Hey The Diva your mother would understand it too... if you didn't bash her about it every two seconds! :flipoff:
I don't know how either understands it since it's not even happening. Based on what's airing she doesn't seem to have significant feelings for either of them.
True!
If this proves ANYTHING...it proves that Sami is now in a place that she can't even make a decision about what man she would rather be with. It's really not too hard, at one point she was focused, knew exactly what she wanted and went for it...no one would stop her. Now she has two that she can't decide and dumped a third one and if anything she is now in a place that she loves neither of these men, IMHO.
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Helpless Romantic


LuvingLumi
Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM
Tammy
Dec 10 2012, 11:15 AM
lysie
Dec 9 2012, 06:28 PM
Tammy
Dec 8 2012, 11:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't know how either understands it since it's not even happening. Based on what's airing she doesn't seem to have significant feelings for either of them.
True!
If this proves ANYTHING...it proves that Sami is now in a place that she can't even make a decision about what man she would rather be with. It's really not too hard, at one point she was focused, knew exactly what she wanted and went for it...no one would stop her. Now she has two that she can't decide and dumped a third one and if anything she is now in a place that she loves neither of these men, IMHO.
IMO its a LAME and DISGUSTING attempt to use Caroline's debilitating illmess to keep those damn carrots dangling and I AM OVER IT! Move the fuck on! Just when I think the spoilers couldn't be more ridiculous the PTB out do themselves. Great job! :sarcasm: You are full of of shit! No surprise though that Caroline would be used as a prop in suposedley "her own story". Shameful.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Dec 10 2012, 12:04 PM.
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lysie
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My issue with Caroline is that there's an implication that she may have made the wrong decision and paid for it later in life. That's not true and isn't at all what happened. Ultimately though, tptb's reliance on making sure to compare whatever couple Sami happens to be a part of at the time parallel to past stories is what kills all their potential. Safe isn't Tom and Alice or Shane and Kim. They're Sami and Rafe. Ejami aren't John and Marlena or Caroline and Victor. They're EJ and Sami. Write for their characters and stop trying to do piss poor imitations of past successes. It's not benefitting anyone.
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Helpless Romantic


lysie
Dec 10 2012, 12:06 PM
My issue with Caroline is that there's an implication that she may have made the wrong decision and paid for it later in life. That's not true and isn't at all what happened. Ultimately though, tptb's reliance on making sure to compare whatever couple Sami happens to be a part of at the time parallel to past stories is what kills all their potential. Safe isn't Tom and Alice or Shane and Kim. They're Sami and Rafe. Ejami aren't John and Marlena or Caroline and Victor. They're EJ and Sami. Write for their characters and stop trying to do piss poor imitations of past successes. It's not benefitting anyone.
I agree 100% These parallels the PTB are drawing aer SAD PATHETIC and just LAME! Please stop!!!! I am not buying a single one, as I said they are full of shit and sadly the DAYS of Sami's fickle hoohah continue. :flipoff:
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Dec 10 2012, 10:34 PM.
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esp13
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lysie
Dec 10 2012, 12:06 PM
My issue with Caroline is that there's an implication that she may have made the wrong decision and paid for it later in life. That's not true and isn't at all what happened. Ultimately though, tptb's reliance on making sure to compare whatever couple Sami happens to be a part of at the time parallel to past stories is what kills all their potential. Safe isn't Tom and Alice or Shane and Kim. They're Sami and Rafe. Ejami aren't John and Marlena or Caroline and Victor. They're EJ and Sami. Write for their characters and stop trying to do piss poor imitations of past successes. It's not benefitting anyone.
I have slightly more mixed feelings. See, I don't mind using past experiences to provide connections between characters. One of my favorite scenes with Kayla and Caroline in 1986 is Caroline talking to Kayla about knowing what it is like to be drawn to the "wrong" man. The parallel isn't exact or perfect, but it provided this moment where Caroline was trying to caution her daughter not out of some unreasonable position, but from experience. Of course, I was happy that Kayla rejected that advice, but I liked that moment.

So, in the abstract, I can buy a connection between Caroline and Sami in this way. But, it needs to be handled with either a lighter touch, or with some actual appreciation for the differences in the story. Because what they actually did was both heavy handed and inaccurate. And, I agree with you, they need to write for the characters independent of past pairings. We need to know what (if anything) is special about EJami or Safe based on those characters, not trying to shoehorn them into some story we already know about.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 11:59 AM
LuvingLumi
Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM
Tammy
Dec 10 2012, 11:15 AM
lysie
Dec 9 2012, 06:28 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
True!
If this proves ANYTHING...it proves that Sami is now in a place that she can't even make a decision about what man she would rather be with. It's really not too hard, at one point she was focused, knew exactly what she wanted and went for it...no one would stop her. Now she has two that she can't decide and dumped a third one and if anything she is now in a place that she loves neither of these men, IMHO.
IMO its a LAME and DISGUSTING attempt to use Caroline's debilitating illmess to keep those damn carrots dangling and I AM OVER IT! Move the fuck on! Just when I think the spoilers couldn't be more ridiculous the PTB out do themselves. Great job! :sarcasm: You are full of of shit! No surprise though that Caroline would be used as a prop in suposedley "her own story". Shameful.
I'm confused as to why you think they are using Caroline's illness to 'dangle carrots'. It's not unusual for Caroline (or just about any other character) to be used to voice the upcoming direction/plot points. I don't see this having anything to do with her pseudo Alzheimers condition.

I do agree with Lysie, though - the comparisons of any of these couples to the popular super couples from back in the day does none of them any favors. If they want to create compelling couples that can stand up to the comparison against popular ones from the past they'd be far better off giving them some semblance of the type of writing those original couples got. THAT is why they were so popular.
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Helpless Romantic


SocRMum1
Dec 10 2012, 12:13 PM
Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 11:59 AM
LuvingLumi
Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM
Tammy
Dec 10 2012, 11:15 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
If this proves ANYTHING...it proves that Sami is now in a place that she can't even make a decision about what man she would rather be with. It's really not too hard, at one point she was focused, knew exactly what she wanted and went for it...no one would stop her. Now she has two that she can't decide and dumped a third one and if anything she is now in a place that she loves neither of these men, IMHO.
IMO its a LAME and DISGUSTING attempt to use Caroline's debilitating illmess to keep those damn carrots dangling and I AM OVER IT! Move the fuck on! Just when I think the spoilers couldn't be more ridiculous the PTB out do themselves. Great job! :sarcasm: You are full of of shit! No surprise though that Caroline would be used as a prop in suposedley "her own story". Shameful.
I'm confused as to why you think they are using Caroline's illness to 'dangle carrots'. It's not unusual for Caroline (or just about any other character) to be used to voice the upcoming direction/plot points. I don't see this having anything to do with her pseudo Alzheimers condition.

I do agree with Lysie, though - the comparisons of any of these couples to the popular super couples from back in the day does none of them any favors. If they want to create compelling couples that can stand up to the comparison against popular ones from the past they'd be far better off giving them some semblance of the type of writing those original couples got. THAT is why they were so popular.
Well the heart to heart with EJ for one "encouraging him to be a better man and asking him how Stefano is". Is not what Caroline has EVER done and I think we are supposed to believe that its do to her illness as sad as that is because they have been showing her as increasingly forgetful to prop another of Sami's pairings and she LOATHED EJ and the Dimeras, while a few days later she "reunites with Rafe" and has been shown to be supportive of SAFE. So thats where the "dangling carrots" comes in for me and to top it off the "caroline sympathyizes with Sami spoiler . I agree with Lysie that no characters or couples should be compared or that Caroline was NOT regretful for choosing Shawn and I hate the implication that she was. Bottomline the PTB just need to stop and instead of looking for parallels that don't work because of their lack of respect for adressing the history btwn these characters properly and the all around ignorant writing is why they just need to write for the characters instead of trying to look fot parallels that DON"T WORK IMO and that are only being used anyway to push an over done and beaten to death plot. As I said I am over it and they have accomplished me truely not caring who Sami is with because the writing is so contrived that its not even funny. The Sami that I loved is no more anyways. I don't buy any of this shit of her being "torn" and if that's what's supposed to be playing out the PTB FAILED big time because I don't see her loving EJ after everything and NEVER will no matter what. At least with Caroline she has an excuse while Sami has none for her brain dead behaviour especially as of late.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Dec 10 2012, 12:42 PM.
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lysie
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esp13
Dec 10 2012, 12:13 PM
lysie
Dec 10 2012, 12:06 PM
My issue with Caroline is that there's an implication that she may have made the wrong decision and paid for it later in life. That's not true and isn't at all what happened. Ultimately though, tptb's reliance on making sure to compare whatever couple Sami happens to be a part of at the time parallel to past stories is what kills all their potential. Safe isn't Tom and Alice or Shane and Kim. They're Sami and Rafe. Ejami aren't John and Marlena or Caroline and Victor. They're EJ and Sami. Write for their characters and stop trying to do piss poor imitations of past successes. It's not benefitting anyone.
I have slightly more mixed feelings. See, I don't mind using past experiences to provide connections between characters. One of my favorite scenes with Kayla and Caroline in 1986 is Caroline talking to Kayla about knowing what it is like to be drawn to the "wrong" man. The parallel isn't exact or perfect, but it provided this moment where Caroline was trying to caution her daughter not out of some unreasonable position, but from experience. Of course, I was happy that Kayla rejected that advice, but I liked that moment.

So, in the abstract, I can buy a connection between Caroline and Sami in this way. But, it needs to be handled with either a lighter touch, or with some actual appreciation for the differences in the story. Because what they actually did was both heavy handed and inaccurate. And, I agree with you, they need to write for the characters independent of past pairings. We need to know what (if anything) is special about EJami or Safe based on those characters, not trying to shoehorn them into some story we already know about.
I agree with that. I don't mind the connections existing. I mean, there's definitely a similarity between Caroline, Marlena, and Sami all cheating and I wish they'd had the characters address this better. I don't like it when they try to take it a step further and compare the relationships. It'd be fine if the relationships were comparable, but they're not. They have parallels to point to and they skip right over them in order to pimp a couple. IMO, that ends up only hurting the couple.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 12:22 PM
SocRMum1
Dec 10 2012, 12:13 PM
Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 11:59 AM
LuvingLumi
Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
IMO its a LAME and DISGUSTING attempt to use Caroline's debilitating illmess to keep those damn carrots dangling and I AM OVER IT! Move the fuck on! Just when I think the spoilers couldn't be more ridiculous the PTB out do themselves. Great job! :sarcasm: You are full of of shit! No surprise though that Caroline would be used as a prop in suposedley "her own story". Shameful.
I'm confused as to why you think they are using Caroline's illness to 'dangle carrots'. It's not unusual for Caroline (or just about any other character) to be used to voice the upcoming direction/plot points. I don't see this having anything to do with her pseudo Alzheimers condition.

I do agree with Lysie, though - the comparisons of any of these couples to the popular super couples from back in the day does none of them any favors. If they want to create compelling couples that can stand up to the comparison against popular ones from the past they'd be far better off giving them some semblance of the type of writing those original couples got. THAT is why they were so popular.
Well the heart to heart with EJ for one "encouraging him to be a better man and asking him how Stefano is". Is not what Caroline has EVER done and I think we are supposed to believe that its do to her illness as sad as that is because they have been showing her as increasingly forgetful to prop another of Sami's pairings and she LOATHED EJ and the Dimeras, while a few days later she "reunites with Rafe" and has been shown to be supportive of SAFE. So thats where the "dangling carrots" comes in for me and to top it off the "caroline sympathyizes with Sami spoiler . I agree with Lysie that no characters or couples should be compared or that Caroline was NOT regretful for choosing Shawn and I hate the implication that she was. Bottomline the PTB just need to stop and instead of looking for parallels that don't work because of their lack of respect for adressing the history btwn these characters and the all around ignorant writing is why they just need to write for the characters instead of trying to look fot parallels that DON"T WORK IMO and that are only being used anyway to push an over done and beaten to death plot. As I said I am over it and they have accomplished me truely not caring who Sami is with because the writing is so contrived that its not even funny. The Sami that I loved is no more anyways. I don't buy any of this shit of her being "torn" and if that's what's supposed to be playing out the PTB FAILED big time because I don't see her loving EJ after everything and NEVER will no matter what.
Characters are written to have inconsistent behaviour all the time - I don't think Caroline's upcoming stuff really ties to her condition. Particularly when you consider she had EJ escort her to her seat during Shawn's funeral and has in the past given advice to both he and Sami in regard to their relationship - be that good or bad.

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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

esp13
Dec 10 2012, 12:13 PM
lysie
Dec 10 2012, 12:06 PM
My issue with Caroline is that there's an implication that she may have made the wrong decision and paid for it later in life. That's not true and isn't at all what happened. Ultimately though, tptb's reliance on making sure to compare whatever couple Sami happens to be a part of at the time parallel to past stories is what kills all their potential. Safe isn't Tom and Alice or Shane and Kim. They're Sami and Rafe. Ejami aren't John and Marlena or Caroline and Victor. They're EJ and Sami. Write for their characters and stop trying to do piss poor imitations of past successes. It's not benefitting anyone.
I have slightly more mixed feelings. See, I don't mind using past experiences to provide connections between characters. One of my favorite scenes with Kayla and Caroline in 1986 is Caroline talking to Kayla about knowing what it is like to be drawn to the "wrong" man. The parallel isn't exact or perfect, but it provided this moment where Caroline was trying to caution her daughter not out of some unreasonable position, but from experience. Of course, I was happy that Kayla rejected that advice, but I liked that moment.

So, in the abstract, I can buy a connection between Caroline and Sami in this way. But, it needs to be handled with either a lighter touch, or with some actual appreciation for the differences in the story. Because what they actually did was both heavy handed and inaccurate. And, I agree with you, they need to write for the characters independent of past pairings. We need to know what (if anything) is special about EJami or Safe based on those characters, not trying to shoehorn them into some story we already know about.
That is my problem also and if the parallel is going to be used to show Sami that in the end, Caroline made the correct choice, and didn't regret it then I will be pleased. Caroline is spoiled to have a chat with Ej (which she did already), Sami and Rafe all within a span of a few weeks. I don't want Caroline to pretty much change her tune now after so many years of the story being that Caroline DID make the RIGHT choice and she didn't regret it. The running story for a very, very long time was that Caroline KNEW her choice was the correct one and she knew that Shawn was the better man and she was happy and lived a fulfilling life because of the choice she made. Heck that choice was proven right when Victor as late as 2007 was still trying to screw over Belle with the Claire issue. In her heart she knew that Victor would not change and changing wasn't even about the story, it was all the crap he did to her and her family through the years that lead Caroline to pretty much admit that Shawn was the person she loved and the fling with Victor was something that she regretted deeply. Now if the story will go along those lines with the Ej/Sami/Rafe parallel fine, but then Rafe is no Shawn either.....the entire comparison to me is just off....

As Lysie said, if all these three characters and the two couples they comprise are all that and a bag of chips then why the constant need to try to tell their story through either a Jarlena comparison or a Victor/Caroline/Shawn one.....ENOUGH
Edited by LuvingLumi, Dec 10 2012, 12:51 PM.
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Helpless Romantic


SocRMum1
Dec 10 2012, 12:41 PM
Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 12:22 PM
SocRMum1
Dec 10 2012, 12:13 PM
Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 11:59 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I'm confused as to why you think they are using Caroline's illness to 'dangle carrots'. It's not unusual for Caroline (or just about any other character) to be used to voice the upcoming direction/plot points. I don't see this having anything to do with her pseudo Alzheimers condition.

I do agree with Lysie, though - the comparisons of any of these couples to the popular super couples from back in the day does none of them any favors. If they want to create compelling couples that can stand up to the comparison against popular ones from the past they'd be far better off giving them some semblance of the type of writing those original couples got. THAT is why they were so popular.
Well the heart to heart with EJ for one "encouraging him to be a better man and asking him how Stefano is". Is not what Caroline has EVER done and I think we are supposed to believe that its do to her illness as sad as that is because they have been showing her as increasingly forgetful to prop another of Sami's pairings and she LOATHED EJ and the Dimeras, while a few days later she "reunites with Rafe" and has been shown to be supportive of SAFE. So thats where the "dangling carrots" comes in for me and to top it off the "caroline sympathyizes with Sami" spoiler . I agree with Lysie that no characters or couples should be compared or that Caroline was NOT regretful for choosing Shawn and I hate the implication that she was. Bottomline the PTB just need to stop and instead of looking for parallels that don't work because of their lack of respect for adressing the history btwn these characters and the all around ignorant writing is why they just need to write for the characters instead of trying to look fot parallels that DON"T WORK IMO and that are only being used anyway to push an over done and beaten to death plot. As I said I am over it and they have accomplished me truely not caring who Sami is with because the writing is so contrived that its not even funny. The Sami that I loved is no more anyways. I don't buy any of this shit of her being "torn" and if that's what's supposed to be playing out the PTB FAILED big time because I don't see her loving EJ after everything and NEVER will no matter what.
Characters are written to have inconsistent behaviour all the time - I don't think Caroline's upcoming stuff really ties to her condition. Particularly when you consider she had EJ escort her to her seat during Shawn's funeral and has in the past given advice to both he and Sami in regard to their relationship - be that good or bad.

The writers of the past wrote characters CONSISTENTLY and they were not in love with multiple men or women at once and once they made their choies were not fickle about it. I think that has especially hurt all the characters in recent years but then in the past the stories were good and you could understand where a character was coming from and presently I can't for any character as they are all fickle generic and in love with being in love. So IMO while in Sami's case she cheated the sls are COMPLETELY different and should not be compared to the extent they have been because the writing and stories don't do anything justice least of all Caroline's illness when shes reduced to being a sounding board for Sami's endless men saga. Making the story about Sami and not Caroline in essence or even Eric being used as a tool to push or okay stamp EJ and Sami as a couple. So while trying to draw "parallells" they pick and choose what they will compare ignoring or whitewashing the rest and that is my problem, especially every time they try EJ and Sami and each time is worse and worse and more unbelievable than the last which makes Sami especially look bad. I really no longer care so it is what it is. There is NOTHING like they at least in the past tried to use to explain her current behaviour and I thought it was very fitting for Sami to tell Eric "I can't imagine my life without a man or being in love" How very appropriate for what she has become and thats why she desperately needs therapy but they wont do that. So we are stuck with stupid fickle and easy characters unfortunately.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Dec 10 2012, 01:10 PM.
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michelle
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I guess I just disagree with all of you.

I think the only comparison that the writers are trying to make is that Sami is torn between two totally opposite men (good guy vs bad guy) and Caroline was as well. I don't think anyone is trying to say that EJAMI and Victorline are/were the same as Shawn/Caroline or Safe are/were.

And maybe at this very moment Sami has not seemed as torn between the two as she has been in the past, but that's because it hasn't been her primary story lately, as she has been wrapped up with Eric's return and Gabi's pregnancy/wedding for the last few weeks.

She still has feelings for Rafe evidenced by their quickie back on/off again relationship and then lately, at the office, you can see she's having some feelings re-emerge for EJ. I believe that she is torn; a big part of her wants to reunite with Rafe because of what he represents to her, her hero/white knight. At the same time, she knows that she has this strong attraction to EJ that she can't seem to let go of, despite their history, even when she's happy with someone else, Lucas, Rafe, etc.
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lysie
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michelle
Dec 10 2012, 02:12 PM
I guess I just disagree with all of you.

I think the only comparison that the writers are trying to make is that Sami is torn between two totally opposite men (good guy vs bad guy) and Caroline was as well. I don't think anyone is trying to say that EJAMI and Victorline are/were the same as Shawn/Caroline or Safe are/were.

And maybe at this very moment Sami has not seemed as torn between the two as she has been in the past, but that's because it hasn't been her primary story lately, as she has been wrapped up with Eric's return and Gabi's pregnancy/wedding for the last few weeks.

She still has feelings for Rafe evidenced by their quickie back on/off again relationship and then lately, at the office, you can see she's having some feelings re-emerge for EJ. I believe that she is torn; a big part of her wants to reunite with Rafe because of what he represents to her, her hero/white knight. At the same time, she knows that she has this strong attraction to EJ that she can't seem to let go of, despite their history, even when she's happy with someone else, Lucas, Rafe, etc.
If they were actually showing her to have feelings for anyone, I might agree (probably not thought because this has been their MO for Sami since Julie made comparisons to her and Doug), but they're not. I'm glad they're not because I have no desire to watch it, but their dialogue doesn't match what's actually on screen. It's more of them telling us rather than showing us.
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Helpless Romantic


lysie
Dec 10 2012, 02:23 PM
michelle
Dec 10 2012, 02:12 PM
I guess I just disagree with all of you.

I think the only comparison that the writers are trying to make is that Sami is torn between two totally opposite men (good guy vs bad guy) and Caroline was as well. I don't think anyone is trying to say that EJAMI and Victorline are/were the same as Shawn/Caroline or Safe are/were.

And maybe at this very moment Sami has not seemed as torn between the two as she has been in the past, but that's because it hasn't been her primary story lately, as she has been wrapped up with Eric's return and Gabi's pregnancy/wedding for the last few weeks.

She still has feelings for Rafe evidenced by their quickie back on/off again relationship and then lately, at the office, you can see she's having some feelings re-emerge for EJ. I believe that she is torn; a big part of her wants to reunite with Rafe because of what he represents to her, her hero/white knight. At the same time, she knows that she has this strong attraction to EJ that she can't seem to let go of, despite their history, even when she's happy with someone else, Lucas, Rafe, etc.
If they were actually showing her to have feelings for anyone, I might agree (probably not thought because this has been their MO for Sami since Julie made comparisons to her and Doug), but they're not. I'm glad they're not because I have no desire to watch it, but their dialogue doesn't match what's actually on screen. It's more of them telling us rather than showing us.
To show us rather than tell us, the sls would need to be character driven instead of plot driven so IMO I don't see that ever happening or changing sadly.
Edited by Helpless Romantic, Dec 10 2012, 06:25 PM.
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blueskies
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Its too bad Eric's a priest, otherwise we could have a Brady-Kristen-Eric triangle with Marlena freaking out.
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blueskies
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Oh and seriously Brady lock the freaking door!! I know Kristen probably wants people to walk in on you so is probably propping it open, but good lord.
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The Room Stops
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Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM
The writers of the past wrote characters CONSISTENTLY and they were not in love with multiple men or women at once and once they made their choies were not fickle about it. I think that has especially hurt all the characters in recent years but then in the past the stories were good and you could understand where a character was coming from and presently I can't for any character as they are all fickle generic and in love with being in love. So IMO while in Sami's case she cheated the sls are COMPLETELY different and should not be compared to the extent they have been because the writing and stories don't do anything justice least of all Caroline's illness when shes reduced to being a sounding board for Sami's endless men saga. Making the story about Sami and not Caroline in essence or even Eric being used as a tool to push or okay stamp EJ and Sami as a couple. So while trying to draw "parallells" they pick and choose what they will compare ignoring or whitewashing the rest and that is my problem, especially every time they try EJ and Sami and each time is worse and worse and more unbelievable than the last which makes Sami especially look bad. I really no longer care so it is what it is. There is NOTHING like they at least in the past tried to use to explain her current behaviour and I thought it was very fitting for Sami to tell Eric "I can't imagine my life without a man or being in love" How very appropriate for what she has become and thats why she desperately needs therapy but they wont do that. So we are stuck with stupid fickle and easy characters unfortunately.
And if it was a triangle, it was actually written in character, even if that meant showing the bad sides. If you take John/Marlena or Victor/Caroline, they can't be compared at all, imo.

Marlena was not fickle in the John/Marlena/Roman triangle. Nor was Caroline in hers. Marlena made her choice and she stuck to it. She loved Roman, but she was in love with John. Caroline loved Shawn, but her passion was strong for Victor. They were good people who had two weak moments, not because they were angry or drunk or sad, because of love and circumstance. Circumstances that were not controlled by them, but that they had to live by. They chose to put other people before their own happiness, and they lived with that choice. They weren't unhappy, but they weren't as happy as they would have been together, either. But it was a choice made with others in mind, and they tried very hard to stick by it. Caroline managed it because Victor wasn't the same constant in her life that John was in Marlena's. They never lived as husband and wife, fully happy and satisfied with life.

Sami's disaster of a love life is a result of her own poor choices, choices made with herself in mind. She put herself first, again and again, and didn't care what others thought.

Marlena, when faced with her mistake and the damages caused by it, punished herself for years. She didn't go after the man she was in love with, she let a man she loved deeply go, she took the anger her daughter dished out and was alone for three years. Sami, when faced with her cheating, blamed everything and everyone else. She hid it because she didn't want to lose Rafe. Marlena hid it because she didn't want to hurt Roman. The two can't be compared, and I wish they'd stop trying.
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countess_cutlass
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Helpless Romantic
Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM
Marlena was not fickle in the John/Marlena/Roman triangle. Nor was Caroline in hers. Marlena made her choice and she stuck to it. She loved Roman, but she was in love with John. Caroline loved Shawn, but her passion was strong for Victor...

Aww. :'(

This makes me so nostalgic for the old Days, where the audience actually cared about these characters. Part of it was what you described, I think -- interesting characters who were written mostly consistently, people you wanted to watch through the ups and downs of their storylines. Emotions and feelings mattered. There were consequences to people's actions. Characters made choices that the audience could relate to, on some level (resurrected zombie twins and demonic possession aside). It wasn't this whirlygig mash of awfulness and inconsistency and retconning of basic lore, which we've got now.

On that note, with the Marlena/Sami comparison, I'm not sure why they don't let Sami be a villain. She's selfish, narcissistic and pretty manipulative -- I mean that in a good way, though. Trying to shoehorn her into the role of "irrepressible bad girl gone good" isn't working very well. On the other hand, I think she would make a really good villain, if they just addressed -- and let her revel in -- her bad girl qualities. That, or actually make her reform. It's tiring to see everyone hand-wave away all of her terrible behavior.
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