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Spoilers for the week of December 17th; *updated 12/7*
Topic Started: Nov 30 2012, 09:05 PM (31,389 Views)
The Scorpion
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tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM
Hamilton
Dec 11 2012, 10:46 AM
confusedbyitall
Dec 11 2012, 10:32 AM
The roomful of toys probably came from EJ, and he is insisting on giving toys to charity so that Sami can look at him with doe eyes and love him for that. Seems like it to me anyways. :(
That would be the best news if it turned out true. This spit and shine version of Ej is a real dull dud.
Ej only works IMHO when he's a villain, the minute that they try to soften him up in order to pair him with Sami he fails miserably as a character and James doesn't play that side of the character that well.
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
I totally agree with you, there's no character on Days that can beat JS/ EJ when it comes to seducing and this is main reason why they should not write this character too dark IMO! Then you can discuss the stories that they write for this character they are beneath contempt many times! Either way, it's not interesting to see that they used EJ to Provide any drama to dull characters like Rafe etc!
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM
Hamilton
Dec 11 2012, 10:46 AM
confusedbyitall
Dec 11 2012, 10:32 AM
The roomful of toys probably came from EJ, and he is insisting on giving toys to charity so that Sami can look at him with doe eyes and love him for that. Seems like it to me anyways. :(
That would be the best news if it turned out true. This spit and shine version of Ej is a real dull dud.
Ej only works IMHO when he's a villain, the minute that they try to soften him up in order to pair him with Sami he fails miserably as a character and James doesn't play that side of the character that well.
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
Here is the thing. Days needs villains more than they need good guys at the moment as Salem seems to be over saturated with those. The issue I think they have with Ej is they want to pretty much do both and they simply CAN'T. They want him in the romantic lead capacity while still being the lead villain. Tomlin and co have proven they simple CAN'T do the middle with Ej (or any character frankly). I think convincing the audience that Ej 'has changed' is probably the toughest part given all he's done throughout the years. As I said, IMHO the character works way better as a villain anyway, and Days needs them, so why even attempt to go there? Forget what some of the fans want....they should be writing what makes sense for the show, taking into account the history of the character. If they commit to a redemption arc, then go for it but don't turn back and screw that up about 5 months after the attempt, but they won't do that because....they need Ej in the villain capacity more than they need him in the romantic lead IMHO. Based solely on what I bolded in your post, that is exactly what has happened to EJ and what will continue to happen to Ej if they continue to attempt what they seem to want to do every 18-24 months since the sorased character was introduced. IMHO it would work better for them to have him come and go, which I still think was JER's original intent for the character. IMHO he was introduced in May of 2006 and he would have been 'off' by January of 2006, he would have popped up again at Lumi's wedding in 2007 with the revelation that maybe the kid she was carrying was in fact his, etc...then he would have likely come and gone some more.....I sometimes wish we knew exactly what plan JER had for Elvis Dimera....
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Vicky4Mimi


Sydole :wub: Sydole :wub: That is all that seems to be important next week.

Lucas says to Jen what we've been thinking, but we could add some other complaints to that. It's always good to see lucas' name in spoilers.

EJ playing a game and pretending to be who he isn't to impress Sami. :lol: That won't last, he can't hold out that long. Good news there. :cheers:

Rafe is playing his cards right. :applause: He's not out manupulating anything, just being himself and things will fall in to place. I am always glad to see that! :popcorn:

Chad does one desent thing in his life, I'm glad it concerns Sydole. :hug:
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concerned
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The Scorpion
Dec 11 2012, 04:02 PM
tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM
Hamilton
Dec 11 2012, 10:46 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Ej only works IMHO when he's a villain, the minute that they try to soften him up in order to pair him with Sami he fails miserably as a character and James doesn't play that side of the character that well.
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
I totally agree with you, there's no character on Days that can beat JS/ EJ when it comes to seducing and this is main reason why they should not write this character too dark IMO! Then you can discuss the stories that they write for this character they are beneath contempt many times! Either way, it's not interesting to see that they used EJ to Provide any drama to dull characters like Rafe etc!


I thought about your comment "there's no character on Days that can beat JS/ EJ when it comes to seducing" and completely concur with you as to that's how it seems coming across the screen to me ... but obviously the powers that be don't seem to be getting the memo because if we look at the way it translates in storyline the only woman he ever seems to have any regular sucess in seducing was willing to sleep with Roman. Its not saying much for the difficulty factor.
Edited by concerned, Dec 11 2012, 04:25 PM.
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The Scorpion
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LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 04:12 PM
tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM
Hamilton
Dec 11 2012, 10:46 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Ej only works IMHO when he's a villain, the minute that they try to soften him up in order to pair him with Sami he fails miserably as a character and James doesn't play that side of the character that well.
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
Here is the thing. Days needs villains more than they need good guys at the moment as Salem seems to be over saturated with those. The issue I think they have with Ej is they want to pretty much do both and they simply CAN'T. They want him in the romantic lead capacity while still being the lead villain. Tomlin and co have proven they simple CAN'T do the middle with Ej (or any character frankly). I think convincing the audience that Ej 'has changed' is probably the toughest part given all he's done throughout the years. As I said, IMHO the character works way better as a villain anyway, and Days needs them, so why even attempt to go there? Forget what some of the fans want....they should be writing what makes sense for the show, taking into account the history of the character. If they commit to a redemption arc, then go for it but don't turn back and screw that up about 5 months after the attempt, but they won't do that because....they need Ej in the villain capacity more than they need him in the romantic lead IMHO. Based solely on what I bolded in your post, that is exactly what has happened to EJ and what will continue to happen to Ej if they continue to attempt what they seem to want to do every 18-24 months since the sorased character was introduced. IMHO it would work better for them to have him come and go, which I still think was JER's original intent for the character. IMHO he was introduced in May of 2006 and he would have been 'off' by January of 2006, he would have popped up again at Lumi's wedding in 2007 with the revelation that maybe the kid she was carrying was in fact his, etc...then he would have likely come and gone some more.....I sometimes wish we knew exactly what plan JER had for Elvis Dimera....
I disagree( villains or good guys)? Days need interesting characters and actors who have charisma that can bring something to the scenes! IMO
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

concerned
Dec 11 2012, 04:22 PM
The Scorpion
Dec 11 2012, 04:02 PM
tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
I totally agree with you, there's no character on Days that can beat JS/ EJ when it comes to seducing and this is main reason why they should not write this character too dark IMO! Then you can discuss the stories that they write for this character they are beneath contempt many times! Either way, it's not interesting to see that they used EJ to Provide any drama to dull characters like Rafe etc!


I thought about your comment "there's no character on Days that can beat JS/ EJ when it comes to seducing" and completely concur with you as to that's how it seems coming across the screen to me ... but obviously the powers that be don't seem to be getting the memo because if we look at the way it translates in storyline the only woman he ever seems to have any regular sucess in seducing was willing to sleep with Roman. Its not saying much for the difficulty factor.
She actually slept with the likes of Roman, and Victor....and well with Taylor, Ej just had to hand her the scarf...the scarf did more seducing than EJ at that point.
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AFaithL


My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.

If TomSell could let go with this obsession with making Sami into a mini-Marlena, and write her true to form, Ejami could be believable. It's like they don't know - or are purposely ignoring - what made people want Ejami to begin with: Not the thought of EJ becoming a hero to Sami's heroine, but SAMI turning more morally gray to reflect EJ's morals.

Write them like Victor and Nikki, two gray characters who will scheme to get what they want (and will sometimes hurt each other in the process), yet love each and their kids passionately, and you might have a winner.

Write them as a hero/heroine, and they will fail. Not only is "wise and mature" Sami unpopular with viewers, but EJ shouldn't be watered down to fit that type of character.

Sami needs to be written more like Kate. EJ like Victor.

The problem is, "Days" can't do grey or complex couples anymore. There's nothing wrong with a grey male/female being in a long term romance, but they seem to think so. Just like they seem to think that the audience prefers Sami as a heroine, when they do not.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

The Scorpion
Dec 11 2012, 04:28 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 04:12 PM
tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
Here is the thing. Days needs villains more than they need good guys at the moment as Salem seems to be over saturated with those. The issue I think they have with Ej is they want to pretty much do both and they simply CAN'T. They want him in the romantic lead capacity while still being the lead villain. Tomlin and co have proven they simple CAN'T do the middle with Ej (or any character frankly). I think convincing the audience that Ej 'has changed' is probably the toughest part given all he's done throughout the years. As I said, IMHO the character works way better as a villain anyway, and Days needs them, so why even attempt to go there? Forget what some of the fans want....they should be writing what makes sense for the show, taking into account the history of the character. If they commit to a redemption arc, then go for it but don't turn back and screw that up about 5 months after the attempt, but they won't do that because....they need Ej in the villain capacity more than they need him in the romantic lead IMHO. Based solely on what I bolded in your post, that is exactly what has happened to EJ and what will continue to happen to Ej if they continue to attempt what they seem to want to do every 18-24 months since the sorased character was introduced. IMHO it would work better for them to have him come and go, which I still think was JER's original intent for the character. IMHO he was introduced in May of 2006 and he would have been 'off' by January of 2006, he would have popped up again at Lumi's wedding in 2007 with the revelation that maybe the kid she was carrying was in fact his, etc...then he would have likely come and gone some more.....I sometimes wish we knew exactly what plan JER had for Elvis Dimera....
I disagree( villains or good guys)? Days need interesting characters and actors who have charisma that can bring something to the scenes! IMO
Days needs interesting characters, sure...but they have them already don't they...it's the constant attempt to rewrite them to fit plot that truly hurts the characters individually and the show as a whole.

Ej was NOT introduced as this grey character who loved beyond belief and was just misunderstood. He was introduced as the black glove criminal, purposely sent by Stefano to harm Salemites and plant his seed in a Brady to create a Dimera heir that could potentially also save his life. He also had a sweevil way about him that made the character compelling to watch. He WAS interesting back then. IMHO the character has regressed to the point that I can't find anything currently that would make me say the same things you see me saying about his introduction. Ej as yet another reformed bad guy is not who a Dimera should be, especially not one that is pretty much Stefano's successor. If this show is going to last longer than 5 years then they need to figure out what they will do with Ej and commit to it. If they redeem him, then bring another Dimera who'll be an asshole and let him run Salem crazy....Ej will soon be just another character like the rest of the good guys then....he won't have anything that special to him anymore.
Edited by LuvingLumi, Dec 11 2012, 04:53 PM.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.
That was my hope and dreams in 2003 for Lumi. They kept them in charactert for a bit until they professed their love for one another and there were still some moments where they truly were 'themselves'...but the minute that Lucas had issues with Sami working for Tony and he began to question who she was and why she was doing this, it started feeling like they had gone off path for my Lumi. A guy who worked for Tony (Andre) didn't understand how someone can be railroaded into working for him too? Especially someone as vulnerable as Sami was at the time? Then came the quad of doom and I was PISSED. I'm telling you, when I think back, the BEST part of Lumi was when they weren't 'together' but where fighting their feelings for one another.....2003/04 was my favorite. The minute they go with Ejami and they profess their love, the story is done.....seriously...you watch.
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Harmony233


AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.

If TomSell could let go with this obsession with making Sami into a mini-Marlena, and write her true to form, Ejami could be believable. It's like they don't know - or are purposely ignoring - what made people want Ejami to begin with: Not the thought of EJ becoming a hero to Sami's heroine, but SAMI turning more morally gray to reflect EJ's morals.

Write them like Victor and Nikki, two gray characters who will scheme to get what they want (and will sometimes hurt each other in the process), yet love each and their kids passionately, and you might have a winner.

Write them as a hero/heroine, and they will fail. Not only is "wise and mature" Sami unpopular with viewers, but EJ shouldn't be watered down to fit that type of character.

Sami needs to be written more like Kate. EJ like Victor.

The problem is, "Days" can't do grey or complex couples anymore. There's nothing wrong with a grey male/female being in a long term romance, but they seem to think so. Just like they seem to think that the audience prefers Sami as a heroine, when they do not.
man i miss grey characters i miss when kate/Sami/Victor/Lucas ect were all schemers ect I swear it sounds like even poor nicole is being turned into a good girl boring.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.

If TomSell could let go with this obsession with making Sami into a mini-Marlena, and write her true to form, Ejami could be believable. It's like they don't know - or are purposely ignoring - what made people want Ejami to begin with: Not the thought of EJ becoming a hero to Sami's heroine, but SAMI turning more morally gray to reflect EJ's morals.

Write them like Victor and Nikki, two gray characters who will scheme to get what they want (and will sometimes hurt each other in the process), yet love each and their kids passionately, and you might have a winner.

Write them as a hero/heroine, and they will fail. Not only is "wise and mature" Sami unpopular with viewers, but EJ shouldn't be watered down to fit that type of character.

Sami needs to be written more like Kate. EJ like Victor.

The problem is, "Days" can't do grey or complex couples anymore. There's nothing wrong with a grey male/female being in a long term romance, but they seem to think so. Just like they seem to think that the audience prefers Sami as a heroine, when they do not.
Absolutely THIS.
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The Scorpion
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AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.

If TomSell could let go with this obsession with making Sami into a mini-Marlena, and write her true to form, Ejami could be believable. It's like they don't know - or are purposely ignoring - what made people want Ejami to begin with: Not the thought of EJ becoming a hero to Sami's heroine, but SAMI turning more morally gray to reflect EJ's morals.

Write them like Victor and Nikki, two gray characters who will scheme to get what they want (and will sometimes hurt each other in the process), yet love each and their kids passionately, and you might have a winner.

Write them as a hero/heroine, and they will fail. Not only is "wise and mature" Sami unpopular with viewers, but EJ shouldn't be watered down to fit that type of character.

Sami needs to be written more like Kate. EJ like Victor.

The problem is, "Days" can't do grey or complex couples anymore. There's nothing wrong with a grey male/female being in a long term romance, but they seem to think so. Just like they seem to think that the audience prefers Sami as a heroine, when they do not.
Primetime writers understand that Grey pair is the most interesting pairs usually, but Days writer is old-fashioned and write boring pair IMO
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Harmony233


LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 04:49 PM
AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.
That was my hope and dreams in 2003 for Lumi. They kept them in charactert for a bit until they professed their love for one another and there were still some moments where they truly were 'themselves'...but the minute that Lucas had issues with Sami working for Tony and he began to question who she was and why she was doing this, it started feeling like they had gone off path for my Lumi. A guy who worked for Tony (Andre) didn't understand how someone can be railroaded into working for him too? Especially someone as vulnerable as Sami was at the time? Then came the quad of doom and I was PISSED. I'm telling you, when I think back, the BEST part of Lumi was when they weren't 'together' but where fighting their feelings for one another.....2003/04 was my favorite. The minute they go with Ejami and they profess their love, the story is done.....seriously...you watch.
I actually loved when lumi were apart too I loved how they was denying there feelings for each other ect some of there fights were so funny.I didn't even understand the quad though.other than JER loved that quad the first time around lol.
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confusedbyitall
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AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.

If TomSell could let go with this obsession with making Sami into a mini-Marlena, and write her true to form, Ejami could be believable. It's like they don't know - or are purposely ignoring - what made people want Ejami to begin with: Not the thought of EJ becoming a hero to Sami's heroine, but SAMI turning more morally gray to reflect EJ's morals.

Write them like Victor and Nikki, two gray characters who will scheme to get what they want (and will sometimes hurt each other in the process), yet love each and their kids passionately, and you might have a winner.

Write them as a hero/heroine, and they will fail. Not only is "wise and mature" Sami unpopular with viewers, but EJ shouldn't be watered down to fit that type of character.

Sami needs to be written more like Kate. EJ like Victor.

The problem is, "Days" can't do grey or complex couples anymore. There's nothing wrong with a grey male/female being in a long term romance, but they seem to think so. Just like they seem to think that the audience prefers Sami as a heroine, when they do not.
I agree with your assessment of what should be done with Sami, but the second sentence could describe Nicole with EJ also. Obviously, the writers did not want that kind of relationship for EJ. Sami, as she is written now, is all over the place. I would also prefer it if she was less of a "heroine" type. EJ just needs someone to love him as he is. He shouldn't have to change to what he isn't to win anyone's love and devotion, and neither should Sami (for Rafe). Lucas seems to be the only one who knows and understands all the sides of Sami. I don't ship anyone (because, TO ME, Sami is the problem in ALL the relationships). Sorry for the opinionated rant. :embarrassed:
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AFaithL


Is there any "group" of fans who like Sami-the-heroine? If it's such a small number who want Sami to be a heroine, then WHY the insistence that they morph her into one? Is it a Sweeney thing? Sorry, no actress should have that kind of power if it's detrimental to the show.

The problem isn't EJ, Rafe, or Lucas ---- it's the insistence that Sami become a heroine. She doesn't fit as one. Neither Ejami fans nor Lumi fans want her as one...and Safe proves why. The problem isn't Rafe or Galen. It's the turning of Sami into a good girl.

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The Scorpion
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AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 05:15 PM
Is there any "group" of fans who like Sami-the-heroine? If it's such a small number who want Sami to be a heroine, then WHY the insistence that they morph her into one? Is it a Sweeney thing? Sorry, no actress should have that kind of power if it's detrimental to the show.

The problem isn't EJ, Rafe, or Lucas ---- it's the insistence that Sami become a heroine. She doesn't fit as one. Neither Ejami fans nor Lumi fans want her as one...and Safe proves why. The problem isn't Rafe or Galen. It's the turning of Sami into a good girl.

I don't know but ALI seems to be a smart woman when it comes to entertainment industry! So that she would like to see Sami being written as a boring heroine seems fishy, especially when that kind of characters are quite outdated today!
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

Harmony233
Dec 11 2012, 04:55 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 04:49 PM
AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.
That was my hope and dreams in 2003 for Lumi. They kept them in charactert for a bit until they professed their love for one another and there were still some moments where they truly were 'themselves'...but the minute that Lucas had issues with Sami working for Tony and he began to question who she was and why she was doing this, it started feeling like they had gone off path for my Lumi. A guy who worked for Tony (Andre) didn't understand how someone can be railroaded into working for him too? Especially someone as vulnerable as Sami was at the time? Then came the quad of doom and I was PISSED. I'm telling you, when I think back, the BEST part of Lumi was when they weren't 'together' but where fighting their feelings for one another.....2003/04 was my favorite. The minute they go with Ejami and they profess their love, the story is done.....seriously...you watch.
I actually loved when lumi were apart too I loved how they was denying there feelings for each other ect some of there fights were so funny.I didn't even understand the quad though.other than JER loved that quad the first time around lol.
The purpose of that quad to me was to prove to both lucas and Sami that when they finally got what the fought so hard to get as teens, as adults they preferred one another.
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DrewHamilton
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AFaithL
Dec 11 2012, 04:41 PM
My preference, if they do Ejami, is to darken Sami a little. Make them both schemers and manipulators, but give them a soft spot when it comes to the kids. But I am convinced Sweeney wants Sami to be a "heroine", instead of the grey character that made her the popular underdog, thus EJ's character has to be watered down in the process.
I don't think that's true. Sweeney has stated several times that she misses playing the bad girl. Even when MarDar first arrived last year, and shades of the old Sami was starting to appear again, Sweeney gushed about how great it is to play that again.
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michelle
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tomsawyer
Dec 11 2012, 02:41 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 11 2012, 12:40 PM
Hamilton
Dec 11 2012, 10:46 AM
confusedbyitall
Dec 11 2012, 10:32 AM
The roomful of toys probably came from EJ, and he is insisting on giving toys to charity so that Sami can look at him with doe eyes and love him for that. Seems like it to me anyways. :(
That would be the best news if it turned out true. This spit and shine version of Ej is a real dull dud.
Ej only works IMHO when he's a villain, the minute that they try to soften him up in order to pair him with Sami he fails miserably as a character and James doesn't play that side of the character that well.
I think when they try to change any character's personality just to pair them with somebody, it fails miserably. A character's evolution has to be natural and take time, which Days completely sucks at nowadays for pretty much all their characters. Historically though, some of my favorite couples involved mismatched pairings and redemptive arcs (Jack/Jen and Steve/Kayla), but TPTB seem unwilling to invest in this long-term writing now.

Anyway, I've actually found JS to be believable at portraying a romantic lead (in late 2007/early 2008 when they did EJ's first redemptive arc), as well as an evil villain (sweevil EJ of late 2006/early 2007). It's just that the pendulum has swung back and forth so many times that either end of the spectrum ends up being unbelievable. I neither shake in my boots when he makes threats, nor do I swoon when he professes his love, because I know he will probably be doing something completely the opposite a month down the road. The lack of consistency has made him an uncompelling character on both ends of the spectrum IMO.

And I think there is a big issue with taking EJ really dark - namely that JS is young, hot and does seduction scenes well, so there is a good chunk of the audience that will want him to be viable in a romantic pairing. That's pretty different from a 60-something JM terrorizing Salem as Stefano 20 years ago. Plus, they've given EJ little kids and JS has good chemistry with the Kunitz twins, so there is a chunk of the audience that likes seeing him as the doting daddy. Again, that is very different from Stefano in his hay day who only had adult children on the canvas. I just think it's hard to make EJ a pure villain because there's a sizable part of the audience that likes him in a different capacity. Ultimately, I think villains work the best when they can come in, do their dastardly deed, and then exit stage left. If you leave them hanging around the canvas, they end up getting neutered. And I highly doubt they are going to remove EJ from the canvas anytime soon. So if they actually want to create a consistent persona for EJ, I think their best path is to make him a somewhat gray character (like esp13 said - business scheming and some manipulation - that's my preference) or take him down a realistic, long-term redemptive arc (which TPTB are way too lazy to do).
SO SO SO SO MUCH THIS!

Not nearly enough to just like this post, I'm proposing, marrying and hoping soon to have a couple of babies with it.
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Aliaron
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I hate this idea of letting EJ be the new Victor. We had a new complex Victor. His name was Phillip. You know? Victor's son. A man you could understand being like Victor. And Shawn/Belle/Phillip was the new Shawn/Caroline/Victor.

Why in the hell can't EJ be what he was supposed to be like the man who made him? Not like some man he has no connection to?

The real problen with this show is. They can't just go with the flow of the story. No they have to bend characters until they are broken. I don't believe that most people see EJ as this Jack like character. I think most viewers see him as a villian and are fine with that. They don't need hero EJ. They don't need slightly dark EJ. Villians have sex. Ask sonny Corinthos.

Sami was never on the evil side of grey. Even at her worse she was more Nancy than Kristin. An anti-Brady is still a Brady. That just means they still can be heroic. They just do it their own way. The same way Lucas was the anti-Horton. Before hortons became the villians of the show.

Because they took pangs i ln making sure we saw how she was still this damaged girl who did not know her way, she could always be redeemed. She was a character who needed more light not darkness in her life. She brings the darkness. But darkness never made her happy.

The couple you create have to balance eachother. That's a problem with this show as well. None of the couples balance each other.

Sami's dealing with two extremes for her middle of the road self. That's made her someone she was never supposed to be. Fickle and helpless. Depending on a guy for every damn thing. Jenn has become this sap of girl for hero Daniel when she was always the strong sure good woman who always balanced an unsure Jack. Brady and Kristin is just all kinds if rediculous.
Edited by Aliaron, Dec 11 2012, 07:51 PM.
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