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Friday, December 28th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Dec 27 2012, 02:17 PM (8,735 Views)
jb1183


I wish Sonny had gotten a chance to know Nick Circa 2007-08. I think first run Nick and current day Sonny would have gotten along great and probably would have become the best of friends. They were both such good hearted, stand up guys.

That was the Nick I was so looking forward to seeing again. I am beyond disappointed with what they have done with the character during this second run.
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ScorpioQueen
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Will&Sonny
Dec 28 2012, 11:23 PM
Honeybees
Dec 28 2012, 09:50 PM
esp13
Dec 28 2012, 09:16 PM
Kerenush
Dec 28 2012, 07:34 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
He totally had a choice. All he had to do was say no to Nick's idea, tell Gabi he intends to be a part of his child's life, and tell Sonny (and his family) the truth. There is nothing Nick and Gabi could have done to stop him. Hell, there is nothing they can do to stop him now. I don't care how pushy Nick and Gabi are being, this one is on Will. I understand why he is doing what he is doing, but that doesn't make him a victim.
He may not be a victim, but he is a hell of a lot more sympathetic that Gabi and Nick. He's been trying to respect Gabi's choices and do what's right since the moment he found out. He's second guessing himself, which is totally understandable now that he's facing up to the reality that someone else will be raising his child. Parents who give their children up for adoption are given deep counseling to make sure of they are comfortable with the choice. Will didn't allow himself to get counseling, and that's on him. But I sure as hell have more sympathy for him that Nick and Gabi, who seem absolutely comfortable with cutting Will out despite Will's growing discomfort.
What Honeybees said. Yes, Will has a choice (well, as much of a choice as someone can have when they are at the mercy of writers who want to extend the reveal until X date for plot purposes, anyway), but I do think that he's ultimately going to choose to reveal that he's the father, so that's a bit of a moot point to me.

However, Will has always been willing to accept responsibility for the baby. Even if it inconveniences his life. Even if it ruins his relationship with Sonny. Even if it means that he has to drop out of college and get a dead-end job. Always.

Nick and Gabi have been, and still are, manipulating Will into doing what is best for Nick and Gabi. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about broken homes. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about his relationship with Sonny. They barely gave him any time to decide for himself what he wanted to do -- they offered this "solution" and then hovered over him, applying repeated pressure and not allowing him any privacy whatsoever, until he finally gave them the answer that they wanted him to give. They have repeatedly suggested that letting Nick raise the child would be in the child's best interests (and Will is, as far as I'm concerned, the only one who is truly coming across as being more concerned about the child's welfare than he is about his own selfish desires). Gabi, whom Will truly cares about and feels responsible for, has repeatedly insisted that Will needs to give up his child because that is what she wants -- knowing perfectly well that Will wants to make Gabi happy.

So yes -- Will has a choice. Will can stop this at any time. But I disagree with the assertion that this fact means that he cannot be seen as the victim. Will is being bullied into taking a specific course of action at the moment. Saying that he's not a victim because he could choose to tell the truth at any time is, to me, like saying that a person who is being bullied at school is not a victim because he could choose to report the bullying to the school principal at any time. (I have a different analogy that I'd love to make here, but I'll refrain from doing so because it might cause a huge derailment.)

As I've said before...if Nick and Gabi had just said to Will, "We have this idea about Nick raising the baby. Take some time to think about it and get back to us when you've made your decision. No pressure," and Will had agreed to go along with the plan without being manipulated or pressured into making that decision, that would have been an entirely different matter, but that's not what happened, and that is why Will's the victim and the only sympathetic character in this scenario, IMO.
Umm, Nick said to him and I quote "I would never want to take you away from your child. If you are ready to step up and be its father. Is that something you're willing to do?" Will's response was "Well I need some time to think about this." If Will wanted to step up, why didn't he say so then? Gabi then says "You can take some time to think about this. You don't have to decide right now, you can take some time." Nick points out the obvious, that everyone already thinks he (Nick) is the father and if Will wants to step up, then now is his moment.

I just re-watched the scenes. All Will could talk about was how him and Gabi sleeping together was a mistake, the situation sucks and his obligations blah blah blah. Meanwhile Nick tells Gabi he wants to marry her and have a wonderful life with her. Will decided to let Nabi raise his child because that was the easiest choice. He doesn't have to tell Sonny and face his wrath and the Bradys and Hortons. It would've been one thing if he told Gabi he wanted to make things work as co-parents and let the chips fall where they may with Sonny. That's not what he did.
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Harmony233


ScorpioQueen
Dec 29 2012, 05:26 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 28 2012, 11:23 PM
Honeybees
Dec 28 2012, 09:50 PM
esp13
Dec 28 2012, 09:16 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
He may not be a victim, but he is a hell of a lot more sympathetic that Gabi and Nick. He's been trying to respect Gabi's choices and do what's right since the moment he found out. He's second guessing himself, which is totally understandable now that he's facing up to the reality that someone else will be raising his child. Parents who give their children up for adoption are given deep counseling to make sure of they are comfortable with the choice. Will didn't allow himself to get counseling, and that's on him. But I sure as hell have more sympathy for him that Nick and Gabi, who seem absolutely comfortable with cutting Will out despite Will's growing discomfort.
What Honeybees said. Yes, Will has a choice (well, as much of a choice as someone can have when they are at the mercy of writers who want to extend the reveal until X date for plot purposes, anyway), but I do think that he's ultimately going to choose to reveal that he's the father, so that's a bit of a moot point to me.

However, Will has always been willing to accept responsibility for the baby. Even if it inconveniences his life. Even if it ruins his relationship with Sonny. Even if it means that he has to drop out of college and get a dead-end job. Always.

Nick and Gabi have been, and still are, manipulating Will into doing what is best for Nick and Gabi. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about broken homes. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about his relationship with Sonny. They barely gave him any time to decide for himself what he wanted to do -- they offered this "solution" and then hovered over him, applying repeated pressure and not allowing him any privacy whatsoever, until he finally gave them the answer that they wanted him to give. They have repeatedly suggested that letting Nick raise the child would be in the child's best interests (and Will is, as far as I'm concerned, the only one who is truly coming across as being more concerned about the child's welfare than he is about his own selfish desires). Gabi, whom Will truly cares about and feels responsible for, has repeatedly insisted that Will needs to give up his child because that is what she wants -- knowing perfectly well that Will wants to make Gabi happy.

So yes -- Will has a choice. Will can stop this at any time. But I disagree with the assertion that this fact means that he cannot be seen as the victim. Will is being bullied into taking a specific course of action at the moment. Saying that he's not a victim because he could choose to tell the truth at any time is, to me, like saying that a person who is being bullied at school is not a victim because he could choose to report the bullying to the school principal at any time. (I have a different analogy that I'd love to make here, but I'll refrain from doing so because it might cause a huge derailment.)

As I've said before...if Nick and Gabi had just said to Will, "We have this idea about Nick raising the baby. Take some time to think about it and get back to us when you've made your decision. No pressure," and Will had agreed to go along with the plan without being manipulated or pressured into making that decision, that would have been an entirely different matter, but that's not what happened, and that is why Will's the victim and the only sympathetic character in this scenario, IMO.
Umm, Nick said to him and I quote "I would never want to take you away from your child. If you are ready to step up and be its father. Is that something you're willing to do?" Will's response was "Well I need some time to think about this." If Will wanted to step up, why didn't he say so then? Gabi then says "You can take some time to think about this. You don't have to decide right now, you can take some time." Nick points out the obvious, that everyone already thinks he (Nick) is the father and if Will wants to step up, then now is his moment.

I just re-watched the scenes. All Will could talk about was how him and Gabi sleeping together was a mistake, the situation sucks and his obligations blah blah blah. Meanwhile Nick tells Gabi he wants to marry her and have a wonderful life with her. Will decided to let Nabi raise his child because that was the easiest choice. He doesn't have to tell Sonny and face his wrath and the Bradys and Hortons. It would've been one thing if he told Gabi he wanted to make things work as co-parents and let the chips fall where they may with Sonny. That's not what he did.
THe wrath of the Brady's and Hortons? why would will get the wrath of them i'm pretty sure most of them will be on will's side plus marlena and kate.
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Deverauxfan
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Quote:
 
Anne comes over to Jen and says you take your job seriously.. I guess if my last name was Horton, I could take as many days off as I wanted to. It's so adorable how you are so helpless with darts, the big strong unmarried doctor has to help you. Anne says you sure don't look like the grieving widow but the black is a nice touch.


I just got to say that Anne is awesome! Did Jennifer really call Anne sanctimonious? Really?! Pot meet kettle.
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Kenny
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Just because no one does it better... more Kristen/Marlena slaps.







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Mason
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The one at Austin and Sami's wedding is probably my favorite, if for no other reason than because of how hilarious I find Kristen calling Marlena "vulgar" and how Eileen delivers that line.
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Tammy
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The way in which Kristen called Marlena a bitch today made me LMAO!
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Will&Sonny


ScorpioQueen
Dec 29 2012, 05:26 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 28 2012, 11:23 PM
What Honeybees said. Yes, Will has a choice (well, as much of a choice as someone can have when they are at the mercy of writers who want to extend the reveal until X date for plot purposes, anyway), but I do think that he's ultimately going to choose to reveal that he's the father, so that's a bit of a moot point to me.

However, Will has always been willing to accept responsibility for the baby. Even if it inconveniences his life. Even if it ruins his relationship with Sonny. Even if it means that he has to drop out of college and get a dead-end job. Always.

Nick and Gabi have been, and still are, manipulating Will into doing what is best for Nick and Gabi. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about broken homes. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about his relationship with Sonny. They barely gave him any time to decide for himself what he wanted to do -- they offered this "solution" and then hovered over him, applying repeated pressure and not allowing him any privacy whatsoever, until he finally gave them the answer that they wanted him to give. They have repeatedly suggested that letting Nick raise the child would be in the child's best interests (and Will is, as far as I'm concerned, the only one who is truly coming across as being more concerned about the child's welfare than he is about his own selfish desires). Gabi, whom Will truly cares about and feels responsible for, has repeatedly insisted that Will needs to give up his child because that is what she wants -- knowing perfectly well that Will wants to make Gabi happy.

So yes -- Will has a choice. Will can stop this at any time. But I disagree with the assertion that this fact means that he cannot be seen as the victim. Will is being bullied into taking a specific course of action at the moment. Saying that he's not a victim because he could choose to tell the truth at any time is, to me, like saying that a person who is being bullied at school is not a victim because he could choose to report the bullying to the school principal at any time. (I have a different analogy that I'd love to make here, but I'll refrain from doing so because it might cause a huge derailment.)

As I've said before...if Nick and Gabi had just said to Will, "We have this idea about Nick raising the baby. Take some time to think about it and get back to us when you've made your decision. No pressure," and Will had agreed to go along with the plan without being manipulated or pressured into making that decision, that would have been an entirely different matter, but that's not what happened, and that is why Will's the victim and the only sympathetic character in this scenario, IMO.
Umm, Nick said to him and I quote "I would never want to take you away from your child. If you are ready to step up and be its father. Is that something you're willing to do?" Will's response was "Well I need some time to think about this." If Will wanted to step up, why didn't he say so then? Gabi then says "You can take some time to think about this. You don't have to decide right now, you can take some time." Nick points out the obvious, that everyone already thinks he (Nick) is the father and if Will wants to step up, then now is his moment.

I just re-watched the scenes. All Will could talk about was how him and Gabi sleeping together was a mistake, the situation sucks and his obligations blah blah blah. Meanwhile Nick tells Gabi he wants to marry her and have a wonderful life with her. Will decided to let Nabi raise his child because that was the easiest choice. He doesn't have to tell Sonny and face his wrath and the Bradys and Hortons. It would've been one thing if he told Gabi he wanted to make things work as co-parents and let the chips fall where they may with Sonny. That's not what he did.
It's not about what he said, it's about how he said it. You're also leaving out some of the lines. It seems kind of silly to transcribe the whole scene, but this is how it played out for me, starting exactly where you started:

Nick: [innocently] "Will, I have no problem -- I would never want to take you away from your child...[sinister pause]...if you're ready to step up and be its father. I mean, is -- is that something you're -- you're ready to do?"
Will: "Well, I -- I think I'm going to need some time to think about this."
Nick: "I totally understand...[and that's where I should have shut the hell up and given you that time, but instead, I'm going to ignore that request and add...]...but you're in love with Sonny, and Gabi and I are in love with each other. I mean, don't you think this is what's best for everyone -- [pointedly] especially the child?"
Will: "I don't need you to spell it out for me, Nick, and I don't need you to pressure me, and I especially do not need you to pressure [Gabi]."
Gabi: "Look, you can take some time to think about this, okay? You don't have to decide right now."
Nick: [Once again not giving Will any time] "No, but we're already letting people think that I'm the father, so if you want to step up and tell the truth, now is your moment...[pointedly]...and if you do, you've got to know that there is absolutely no turning back."
Will: "Gabi, you never really answered my question -- are you sure that you want to do this?"
Gabi: "No, I'm not, but out of all the options that we have -- I mean, this is the only one where I can see that we might all be happy in the future. I mean, you and Sonny -- gosh, it's taken forever for you guys to get together, and now that you finally are...I don't want to take that away from you."
Will: "You wouldn't, Gabi. This is my baby, and it is also my responsibility." [Seems like a pretty clear case of someone who is willing to take responsibility to me...]
Gabi: [Well, that didn't work -- time to try a different approach!] "Yeah, but it's not only you and Sonny. I'm in love with Nick, and he says that he can give this baby a great life."
Nick: "That's a promise. Just...please think about it."
Will: "Okay, I will. [Pause, then to Gabi...] All right, well, get some rest."

[Will exits and is next seen in the hallway, clearly conflicted. Over the course of the next two episodes, Will is given no time to think about the matter without Gabi and/or Nick hovering over his shoulder, pressuring him to make a decision and pointedly making it clear that they want him to make a specific decision. Will even says at one point, "You're trying really hard not to beg me to walk away, so obviously, what you want..."]

Anyway, back to the original scene in question...that whole scene played out as not-so-subtly antagonistic and manipulative to me. Nick shouldn't have even been there for that discussion -- Will hadn't had a single chance to sit down and talk to Gabi privately since she had decided to keep the baby. Will was ambushed and ganged up on, IMO, and while Nick and Gabi claimed that they were going to give Will time to make up his own mind, that's not what they actually ended up doing at all.

I would also point out that the above scene wouldn't have happened if Nick hadn't pressured Will into keeping the baby's paternity a secret in a previous episode. Will was ready to tell the truth, and Nick stopped him.

But we're obviously not going to agree on this, and that's fine. :smile: I do think that there was more to that scene than you suggested, though.
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ScorpioQueen
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Will&Sonny
Dec 30 2012, 03:34 AM
ScorpioQueen
Dec 29 2012, 05:26 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 28 2012, 11:23 PM
What Honeybees said. Yes, Will has a choice (well, as much of a choice as someone can have when they are at the mercy of writers who want to extend the reveal until X date for plot purposes, anyway), but I do think that he's ultimately going to choose to reveal that he's the father, so that's a bit of a moot point to me.

However, Will has always been willing to accept responsibility for the baby. Even if it inconveniences his life. Even if it ruins his relationship with Sonny. Even if it means that he has to drop out of college and get a dead-end job. Always.

Nick and Gabi have been, and still are, manipulating Will into doing what is best for Nick and Gabi. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about broken homes. They have repeatedly preyed on his insecurities about his relationship with Sonny. They barely gave him any time to decide for himself what he wanted to do -- they offered this "solution" and then hovered over him, applying repeated pressure and not allowing him any privacy whatsoever, until he finally gave them the answer that they wanted him to give. They have repeatedly suggested that letting Nick raise the child would be in the child's best interests (and Will is, as far as I'm concerned, the only one who is truly coming across as being more concerned about the child's welfare than he is about his own selfish desires). Gabi, whom Will truly cares about and feels responsible for, has repeatedly insisted that Will needs to give up his child because that is what she wants -- knowing perfectly well that Will wants to make Gabi happy.

So yes -- Will has a choice. Will can stop this at any time. But I disagree with the assertion that this fact means that he cannot be seen as the victim. Will is being bullied into taking a specific course of action at the moment. Saying that he's not a victim because he could choose to tell the truth at any time is, to me, like saying that a person who is being bullied at school is not a victim because he could choose to report the bullying to the school principal at any time. (I have a different analogy that I'd love to make here, but I'll refrain from doing so because it might cause a huge derailment.)

As I've said before...if Nick and Gabi had just said to Will, "We have this idea about Nick raising the baby. Take some time to think about it and get back to us when you've made your decision. No pressure," and Will had agreed to go along with the plan without being manipulated or pressured into making that decision, that would have been an entirely different matter, but that's not what happened, and that is why Will's the victim and the only sympathetic character in this scenario, IMO.
Umm, Nick said to him and I quote "I would never want to take you away from your child. If you are ready to step up and be its father. Is that something you're willing to do?" Will's response was "Well I need some time to think about this." If Will wanted to step up, why didn't he say so then? Gabi then says "You can take some time to think about this. You don't have to decide right now, you can take some time." Nick points out the obvious, that everyone already thinks he (Nick) is the father and if Will wants to step up, then now is his moment.

I just re-watched the scenes. All Will could talk about was how him and Gabi sleeping together was a mistake, the situation sucks and his obligations blah blah blah. Meanwhile Nick tells Gabi he wants to marry her and have a wonderful life with her. Will decided to let Nabi raise his child because that was the easiest choice. He doesn't have to tell Sonny and face his wrath and the Bradys and Hortons. It would've been one thing if he told Gabi he wanted to make things work as co-parents and let the chips fall where they may with Sonny. That's not what he did.
It's not about what he said, it's about how he said it. You're also leaving out some of the lines. It seems kind of silly to transcribe the whole scene, but this is how it played out for me, starting exactly where you started:

Nick: [innocently] "Will, I have no problem -- I would never want to take you away from your child...[sinister pause]...if you're ready to step up and be its father. I mean, is -- is that something you're -- you're ready to do?"
Will: "Well, I -- I think I'm going to need some time to think about this."
Nick: "I totally understand...[and that's where I should have shut the hell up and given you that time, but instead, I'm going to ignore that request and add...]...but you're in love with Sonny, and Gabi and I are in love with each other. I mean, don't you think this is what's best for everyone -- [pointedly] especially the child?"
Will: "I don't need you to spell it out for me, Nick, and I don't need you to pressure me, and I especially do not need you to pressure [Gabi]."
Gabi: "Look, you can take some time to think about this, okay? You don't have to decide right now."
Nick: [Once again not giving Will any time] "No, but we're already letting people think that I'm the father, so if you want to step up and tell the truth, now is your moment...[pointedly]...and if you do, you've got to know that there is absolutely no turning back."
Will: "Gabi, you never really answered my question -- are you sure that you want to do this?"
Gabi: "No, I'm not, but out of all the options that we have -- I mean, this is the only one where I can see that we might all be happy in the future. I mean, you and Sonny -- gosh, it's taken forever for you guys to get together, and now that you finally are...I don't want to take that away from you."
Will: "You wouldn't, Gabi. This is my baby, and it is also my responsibility." [Seems like a pretty clear case of someone who is willing to take responsibility to me...]
Gabi: [Well, that didn't work -- time to try a different approach!] "Yeah, but it's not only you and Sonny. I'm in love with Nick, and he says that he can give this baby a great life."
Nick: "That's a promise. Just...please think about it."
Will: "Okay, I will. [Pause, then to Gabi...] All right, well, get some rest."

[Will exits and is next seen in the hallway, clearly conflicted. Over the course of the next two episodes, Will is given no time to think about the matter without Gabi and/or Nick hovering over his shoulder, pressuring him to make a decision and pointedly making it clear that they want him to make a specific decision. Will even says at one point, "You're trying really hard not to beg me to walk away, so obviously, what you want..."]

Anyway, back to the original scene in question...that whole scene played out as not-so-subtly antagonistic and manipulative to me. Nick shouldn't have even been there for that discussion -- Will hadn't had a single chance to sit down and talk to Gabi privately since she had decided to keep the baby. Will was ambushed and ganged up on, IMO, and while Nick and Gabi claimed that they were going to give Will time to make up his own mind, that's not what they actually ended up doing at all.

I would also point out that the above scene wouldn't have happened if Nick hadn't pressured Will into keeping the baby's paternity a secret in a previous episode. Will was ready to tell the truth, and Nick stopped him.

But we're obviously not going to agree on this, and that's fine. :smile: I do think that there was more to that scene than you suggested, though.
I guess my question is why would Will even consider going along with it? I'm sorry, nothing stops a man from stepping up for his own flesh and blood except himself. He could've told Nick to shove it. As a matter of fact, since you mentioned the previous scenes, when Nick told Sonny not to tell Sonny, Will could've said no way and told Sonny anyway. I'm a Nick fan but I thought that was out of line and not his call. My point is that yes, Nick is being incredibly manipulative and forceful but if Will wanted to claim his child and if he wasn't conflicted and worried about the fallout, he would've taken matters into his own hands and told Nick to back off. Nick only manipulated the situation because Will allowed him to. Will could've and still can put the lid on this whole thing. He won't because he's too worried about what Sonny and his family will think. And that makes him a coward, not a victim.
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Will&Sonny


ScorpioQueen
Dec 30 2012, 05:41 AM
I guess my question is why would Will even consider going along with it?
Because he's trying to put Gabi's desires, as well as (and most importantly) the baby's welfare, ahead of his own needs.

Will has a history of putting his own feelings aside for the sake of other people -- that's why we just spent months watching him agonize over his own sexuality. Yes, he was worried about how being gay would change his plans for his own future, but he was also very worried about how being gay would affect his loved ones. He was willing to live a closeted life because he thought that would be the course of action that would make everyone else happy. Even after he came out of the closet, he was willing to go back in because Lucas and T (and, to a lesser extent, Sonny) said some things that reinforced his belief that being gay had inconvenienced his loved ones. (That's what led to this pregnancy in the first place.)

Will didn't want to be the one to tell Rafe about the grief sex, even though keeping that secret was eating Will up inside (on top of everything that Will was already dealing with in terms of his sexuality), because he didn't want to be the one to ruin the happy family that Rafe, Sami, Will, Johnny, Allie, and Sydney had become. (Yes, this later changed for plot purposes because the writers needed to give Will a reason to want to kill Stefano, but that doesn't change the fact that this was originally a motivating factor in Will's decision to keep Sami's secret.)

Will decided to back off of Sonny because he heard Adrienne say that Will wasn't good enough to date Sonny.

Will proposed to Gabi when he found out that she was pregnant, despite the fact that he knew that he would never really be happy with that arrangement, because he thought that it was his responsibility to do so.

I'm sure that there are other examples that I could think of, but you get the gist.

None of this makes Will a coward, IMO -- it makes him someone who has had to be the adult far too often in his young life, thanks to his parents' drama, and who has never really had the luxury of being able to be a selfish "kid" like most people who are his age have been able to be. In that scene that I mentioned earlier, where Nick pressured Will into keeping the baby's paternity a secret for a while longer, Will agreed to keep the secret not because he wanted to, but because Nick made it clear that Will needed to do so for Gabi's sake.

We're in agreement that Will can still choose to reveal the truth, and that Nick and Gabi would be powerless to stop him if he chose to do so. I've never claimed otherwise, and I have always believed that Will will do so as soon as the writers decide to allow him to (meaning, at the wedding). However, I don't agree that Will is keeping the baby's paternity a secret for selfish reasons, such as protecting his relationship with Sonny (Will has, on more than one occasion, stated that Sonny would probably be able to handle the truth -- but every time that Will has mentioned that, Gabi or Nick has been there to try to discourage that line of thinking).

Will is keeping the baby's paternity a secret because he believes -- and Nick and Gabi have been happily and not-so-subtly reinforcing this belief all along -- that doing so is what's best for the baby and Gabi. He's not keeping the secret because he wants to. Making the decision to let Nick raise the child never left Will with a sense of relief. There was never any indication that Will felt like a burden had been lifted off of his shoulders. He's never celebrated the fact that he no longer has to be responsible for a child. Nothing like that has ever happened. Will's decision gave him no peace whatsoever. Will is keeping the secret because he feels like that's what everyone wants him to do. He's keeping the secret out of a sense of obligation -- obligation toward his child, obligation toward the woman whose life he "ruined" when he ignored his obligation to use protection -- and because he's spent his entire life putting other people's needs and wants ahead of his own.
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lazydazes
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No one is holding will back except will. He needs to step forward and be a father to his child. It`s easier for him to stand back and blame gabi/nick than to admit the truth. Initially gabi & will approached the situation maturely but after she didn`t have the miscarriage, common sense went out the window. IMO the writers are trying to paint nabi as villains when they aren`t. Will just needs to tell sonny the truth and claim his baby. That`s all he needs to do.
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Honeybees
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Will isn't blaming Gabi and Nick. Certain fans are. The most he's expressed is frustration that they won't listen to him and seem hell bent on going forward with a plan he now - after thinking about it for a scant few Salem days, is a bad idea.

And as for stepping up to the plate, Will has done that since day one. As WillandSonny said, he's tried to balance his own needs with what is right for Gabi and the baby.

And as for the super happy family Nick is offering Gabi, just remember how loving and happy he was when he thought it was Chad's baby. Nick didn't want Gabi or the kid until he found out the father was the gay boy. Will is someone Nick thinks, for good reason, he can manipulate and push around. But I am looking forward to Will finally realizing that he's right about this all being wrong and stepping up. If anything, Will should never have agreed to let Nick claim the baby after witnessing behavior when he thought the baby was Chad's. But Will only saw the tail end of that rage.

I realize that some people still think Nick is a nice guy, and in fact it looks like Will still feels the same. But that's not what's on screen and certainly not how BB is playing it. Nick was horrible to Gabi, slut shaming her and raging at her. That is full on villain.
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esp13
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My belief that Will is not a victim has nothing to do with whether Nick is a good guy or not. Or with whether Will's motives are selfish or unselfish. Nick is not a good guy these days (although I don't think he's a villain either, just a jerk). And Will is doing this out of mostly unselfish reasons, although I've yet to here him say he wants to be a father, only that he's willing to fulfill his obligations.

Will's the good guy and Nick is the bad guy. And Will still has made his own choices and has no one to blame but himself for not stepping up if that is what he really wants to do.
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camera shy


Will's just being stupid. Nothing is more important than your child's life and the role you play in your child's life. You don't choose anyone over that child especially your first lover who'll probably won't be your only lover when you're just eighteen.
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esp13
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camera shy
Dec 30 2012, 10:37 AM
Will's just being stupid. Nothing is more important than your child's life and the role you play in your child's life. You don't choose anyone over that child especially your first lover who'll probably won't be your only lover when you're just eighteen.
I don't think he's being stupid. I think he's a young kid caught up in a crazy situation who is trying to make the right decision under difficult circumstances. I'm not convinced that he's only concerned with what is best for the baby because I think part of him simply wants to believe this is best so that his life doesn't get blown up. But, I do think that is one of his primary concerns. I also believe Gabi and Nick feel the same way, but again, "what is best for the baby" is a convenient excuse for getting what they want to. In short, I believe that all of these characters have complicated motives, good and bad. Nick's an ass and a jerk, but he's not an evil ass and he's not doing these things for evil motives. Gabi is selfish, but I don't think she's trying to hurt Will as much as trying to do what works best for her.

That's what I like about this story. It's not all black and white, even if the show won't go as deep into the emotions as they should.
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cord08


The problem, for me, with the baby story is the motivations they gave for Will's decision. They focused primarily on Will (and Gabi) not wanting to lose their respective relationships and Will's childhood when they could just as well have focused on Will/Gabi not being emotionally prepared to be parents. They touched on it a little bit in the beginning, but then it kind of fell by the wayside. Will has been written as insecure quite frequently over the last year, so him basing his decision solely on his insecurities about fatherhood would have been pretty understandable.
Edited by cord08, Dec 30 2012, 12:12 PM.
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annie21


It's all relative. In a show full of weak, shallow, plot-driven storylines, this one is actually the best of the lot. Whether we agree with Will's motivations or not (and I admit some of them are flimsily constructed), at least he has them, and he's being written more or less true to character. And not only are we allowed to see his struggle, we see him evolving and changing as time passes, as he thinks things through, and as he gets to know Nick better and isn't liking what he sees. Will started out in shock and horrified at the news. He was scared and determined not to repeat what he saw as his parents' mistakes. Yet, in his latest conversation with Sami, we heard him say that he's seeing her and Lucas's dilemma in a whole new light. And he's getting stronger when it comes to stating his views and questioning both Gabi and Nick. This is called character growth, folks, and it's such a rarity on this show these days -- even rarer that we get to see it unfold instead of it happening offscreen. Yes, the story is rushed. Yes, the story is thin (and the whole matter could be cleared up with a conversation or two). But the fact that we're getting to see Will's struggle is a revelation because this is more what soaps should be like -- character-driven.

Now, if only they hadn't had to sacrifice the Nick character to their plot, and if they hadn't put a weak, inconsequential character like Gabi in the center, I would actually give these writers a little credit. (Shocking, I know. ;) )

Edited by annie21, Dec 31 2012, 12:58 AM.
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CatherineEarnshaw


John and Marena are my all time favorite couple but part of me wishes he had never come back to life

Don't have much interest in Kisten jf she's not an antagonist for Marlena.

Why isn't Will confiding in Marlena?

Gabi is a nothing character

I'm tired of Brady's size D breasts.
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