Dany_E

Jan 7 2013, 07:40 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I frequently am, but the headwriter's job is to lay out the basic story structure. He/she doesn't actually write breakdowns or daily scripts. If that's true, then, given that the current stories are, to a great degree, a rehash of the same stories that were happening during the Tomlin/Higley era (if better executed now in terms of dialogue and pacing), I think it makes sense to believe that Tomlin, more than Higley was doing most of the headwriting when they were both employed together.

knots

Jan 7 2013, 07:38 PM

annie21

Jan 7 2013, 07:32 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 07:15 PM

annie21

Jan 7 2013, 07:11 PM

See? I can't agree that the show is good now at all. It may arguably be better than Higley's era in some respects, but it's still pretty abysmal, imo.

If things seem better now, then it may be because Tomlin doesn't have himself to deal with. By that, I mean that there seemed to be tension between Higley and Tomlin during much of that time as if they were jostling for position. We heard. for example, that Tomlin was pushing his favorites, like GG. And that may not have been how Higley would have preferred it. Now, he is free to pursue his agenda-driven stories without that kind of conflict.

In addition, Higley was at least somewhat backed by Corday, but not necessarily free from network interference. This time, Tomlin seems to have the backing of the network via Bruce Evans, and Corday/Meng are relatively in a weakened position. Again, Tomlin seems to have freer reign, at least for now.

Still, with all that freedom, he hasn't done anything to bring up the ratings, which continue to bump along in a generally downward trend, and often are tied with or worse than MarDar's. He hasn't done anything stellar or exciting to improve the overall show, but rather has basically taken things back to the Higley era and is bringing those same stories back around. Of the four main stories on air now, three of them were started or ongoing under Higley: Dannifer, WilSon/Gabi, and the neverending triangle. The only real difference is the return of Kristen, and I can't give him credit for that idea, because it apparently was imposed upon him by Sony. Maybe we can credit him with the return of Eric, but that return hasn't really gone anywhere, so it's hard to tell.

Where are your sources? We heard are not sources. THere is no evidence for any of this backstage antics that you all seem to know in detail based on rumor and gossip.

LOL! Maybe I should rethink the olive branch I extended to you in my previous post.

You're right. We don't have a crystal clear picture of what happens behind the scenes. I'm basing my opinion and speculation (which is what my post was) on a hodgepodge of interview statements made by actors, producers, and executives over the last 2-3 years, as well as other sources like Dena's blog entries (some of which were subsequently deleted) and various tweets, FB postings, and press releases.

My view that the stories being aired now are basically extensions of ones started in September 2011, and that Tomlin has his favorites, isn't just my opinion, but I suppose one could argue differently.

As for my assertions about the ratings, those are more readily sourced, as the numbers are available on the internet and are posted here in another thread on this board.

Bottom line, I was disagreeing with an assertion that the show is good now -- an opinion -- by asserting my own opinion that it is not good now.

It is fine. I guess what I am saying is that a lot of people say things on messageboards based on things they have heard or read that they cannot really source and to make a huge issue out of it is not worth it. As a reader you can decide to take it for what it is or not. :D

knots

Jan 7 2013, 07:38 PM

annie21

Jan 7 2013, 07:32 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 07:15 PM

annie21

Jan 7 2013, 07:11 PM

See? I can't agree that the show is good now at all. It may arguably be better than Higley's era in some respects, but it's still pretty abysmal, imo.

If things seem better now, then it may be because Tomlin doesn't have himself to deal with. By that, I mean that there seemed to be tension between Higley and Tomlin during much of that time as if they were jostling for position. We heard. for example, that Tomlin was pushing his favorites, like GG. And that may not have been how Higley would have preferred it. Now, he is free to pursue his agenda-driven stories without that kind of conflict.

In addition, Higley was at least somewhat backed by Corday, but not necessarily free from network interference. This time, Tomlin seems to have the backing of the network via Bruce Evans, and Corday/Meng are relatively in a weakened position. Again, Tomlin seems to have freer reign, at least for now.

Still, with all that freedom, he hasn't done anything to bring up the ratings, which continue to bump along in a generally downward trend, and often are tied with or worse than MarDar's. He hasn't done anything stellar or exciting to improve the overall show, but rather has basically taken things back to the Higley era and is bringing those same stories back around. Of the four main stories on air now, three of them were started or ongoing under Higley: Dannifer, WilSon/Gabi, and the neverending triangle. The only real difference is the return of Kristen, and I can't give him credit for that idea, because it apparently was imposed upon him by Sony. Maybe we can credit him with the return of Eric, but that return hasn't really gone anywhere, so it's hard to tell.

Where are your sources? We heard are not sources. THere is no evidence for any of this backstage antics that you all seem to know in detail based on rumor and gossip.

LOL! Maybe I should rethink the olive branch I extended to you in my previous post.

You're right. We don't have a crystal clear picture of what happens behind the scenes. I'm basing my opinion and speculation (which is what my post was) on a hodgepodge of interview statements made by actors, producers, and executives over the last 2-3 years, as well as other sources like Dena's blog entries (some of which were subsequently deleted) and various tweets, FB postings, and press releases.

My view that the stories being aired now are basically extensions of ones started in September 2011, and that Tomlin has his favorites, isn't just my opinion, but I suppose one could argue differently.

As for my assertions about the ratings, those are more readily sourced, as the numbers are available on the internet and are posted here in another thread on this board.

Bottom line, I was disagreeing with an assertion that the show is good now -- an opinion -- by asserting my own opinion that it is not good now.

It is fine. I guess what I am saying is that a lot of people say things on messageboards based on things they have heard or read that they cannot really source and to make a huge issue out of it is not worth it. As a reader you can decide to take it for what it is or not. :D

annie21

Jan 7 2013, 07:11 PM

See? I can't agree that the show is good now at all. It may arguably be better than Higley's era in some respects, but it's still pretty abysmal, imo.

If things seem better now, then it may be because Tomlin doesn't have himself to deal with. By that, I mean that there seemed to be tension between Higley and Tomlin during much of that time as if they were jostling for position. We heard. for example, that Tomlin was pushing his favorites, like GG. And that may not have been how Higley would have preferred it. Now, he is free to pursue his agenda-driven stories without that kind of conflict.

In addition, Higley was at least somewhat backed by Corday, but not necessarily free from network interference. This time, Tomlin seems to have the backing of the network via Bruce Evans, and Corday/Meng are relatively in a weakened position. Again, Tomlin seems to have freer reign, at least for now.

Still, with all that freedom, he hasn't done anything to bring up the ratings, which continue to bump along in a generally downward trend, and often are tied with or worse than MarDar's. He hasn't done anything stellar or exciting to improve the overall show, but rather has basically taken things back to the Higley era and is bringing those same stories back around. Of the four main stories on air now, three of them were started or ongoing under Higley: Dannifer, WilSon/Gabi, and the neverending triangle. The only real difference is the return of Kristen, and I can't give him credit for that idea, because it apparently was imposed upon him by Sony. Maybe we can credit him with the return of Eric, but that return hasn't really gone anywhere, so it's hard to tell.

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:25 PM

Social media is not a well documented source either. That is still people's opinions and gossip. An official source is an interview with the parties involved on the record. other than that it is not a well documented source.

six

Jan 7 2013, 08:40 PM

I think the argument that we're seeing the same stories DH did is only true in the most shallow sense. Yes a lot of the same people that interacted in the HigSell era are interacting now, but that's generally the way all soaps work, across every regime. Back in Higley's day, it seemed like stories would frequently take turns that made no sense at all, the show would constantly force one character, or a character would descend into OTT mustache twirling evil... Everything seems a lot more balanced overall, now.

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:28 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:25 PM

Social media is not a well documented source either. That is still people's opinions and gossip. An official source is an interview with the parties involved on the record. other than that it is not a well documented source.

And many of them choose to do those interviews through social media. ;) I know what a well documented source is. That's kind of what we do.

.

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:42 PM

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:28 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:25 PM

Social media is not a well documented source either. That is still people's opinions and gossip. An official source is an interview with the parties involved on the record. other than that it is not a well documented source.

And many of them choose to do those interviews through social media. ;) I know what a well documented source is. That's kind of what we do.

If they did the interview through social media then it is a source but since no one can tell me where the backstage shenagians come from I personally cannot take it as a credible source. Most of social media is rumor and gossip that is why I tell my students to be careful when they use it in a formal paper. When I was writing my dissertation I had to careful as well. Like for my paper I would need a much more credible source to use it in my paper.

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:42 PM

six

Jan 7 2013, 08:40 PM

I think the argument that we're seeing the same stories DH did is only true in the most shallow sense. Yes a lot of the same people that interacted in the HigSell era are interacting now, but that's generally the way all soaps work, across every regime. Back in Higley's day, it seemed like stories would frequently take turns that made no sense at all, the show would constantly force one character, or a character would descend into OTT mustache twirling evil... Everything seems a lot more balanced overall, now.

I agree that there's better balance. To me, the main standouts in repeats from the Higley era are Dannifer, WilSon/Gabi, and Danloe to a point. Those three (two) stories seem to have just rewound and gone back to where they were before. I don't think everyone else is in the same place. I mean, EJSAMIRAFE are but that probably won't change until at least one of them is gone.

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:51 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:42 PM

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:28 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:25 PM

Social media is not a well documented source either. That is still people's opinions and gossip. An official source is an interview with the parties involved on the record. other than that it is not a well documented source.

And many of them choose to do those interviews through social media. ;) I know what a well documented source is. That's kind of what we do.

If they did the interview through social media then it is a source but since no one can tell me where the backstage shenagians come from I personally cannot take it as a credible source. Most of social media is rumor and gossip that is why I tell my students to be careful when they use it in a formal paper. When I was writing my dissertation I had to careful as well. Like for my paper I would need a much more credible source to use it in my paper.

We're not writing papers, and most of us all read the same stuff so we don't have to cite it for one another. When someone says something we don't recognize, we ask. I'm not going back through every single interview for one person who also hasn't gone back and found for me where ED has a five year contract. The main "source" was Dena's blogs which she took down. His involvement is fact. What's not fact is how involved he was and at which points.

six

Jan 7 2013, 08:57 PM

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:42 PM

six

Jan 7 2013, 08:40 PM

I think the argument that we're seeing the same stories DH did is only true in the most shallow sense. Yes a lot of the same people that interacted in the HigSell era are interacting now, but that's generally the way all soaps work, across every regime. Back in Higley's day, it seemed like stories would frequently take turns that made no sense at all, the show would constantly force one character, or a character would descend into OTT mustache twirling evil... Everything seems a lot more balanced overall, now.

I agree that there's better balance. To me, the main standouts in repeats from the Higley era are Dannifer, WilSon/Gabi, and Danloe to a point. Those three (two) stories seem to have just rewound and gone back to where they were before. I don't think everyone else is in the same place. I mean, EJSAMIRAFE are but that probably won't change until at least one of them is gone.

What was Gabi even doing in 2011? The last thing I remember was her breaking up with Will. I do have a feeling the other writers wanted a wabi baby, but since it never got off the ground and they incorporated MarDar's history into it, I don't really see it as a rehash. I have an idea about where Danloe is going, so that might be a repeat of the semi triangle Dannifer had going with Carly, but the introduction of Parker should shake things up.

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:57 PM

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:51 PM

knots

Jan 7 2013, 08:42 PM

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 08:28 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

We're not writing papers, and most of us all read the same stuff so we don't have to cite it for one another. When someone says something we don't recognize, we ask. I'm not going back through every single interview for one person who also hasn't gone back and found for me where ED has a five year contract. The main "source" was Dena's blogs which she took down. His involvement is fact. What's not fact is how involved he was and at which points.

I do not understand your hostility towards me I simply said why I do not believe it to be credible and I said myself that i ceded the thing on eileen davidson so I do not have to source it because I said I could have been wrong. I have a right to believe something is credible or not and to give my opinion on it. If you do not agree you can say so or not respond. To me if Dena took down her blogs it must mean she knew she could get sued for defamation and that maybe all she said was not factual. If it is factual you can defend yourself.

lysie

Jan 7 2013, 09:34 PM

Anyway, did anyone else see this today? The spokesperson is the same one who commented on Days. I first saw it at Jezebel and their automatic assumption was that the guy was full of it. His statement about Community is pretty similar to his statement about Days.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/01/up-all-night-news.html