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Thursday, January 17th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Jan 17 2013, 09:43 AM (5,448 Views)
Will&Sonny


elci525
Jan 17 2013, 08:30 PM
six
Jan 17 2013, 08:25 PM
Will&Sonny
Jan 17 2013, 07:01 PM
LonePirate
Jan 17 2013, 06:11 PM
Kate using Jennifer to expose Chloe's secret past seems so immature and antiquated to me. The fact that Kate is being so hypocritical about this sort of slut shaming is almost beyond the pale and I say this as someone who loves the character of Kate.
To be fair, Kate did acknowledge her hypocrisy. She even had a pretty good argument -- as far as these things go, anyway -- for why Chloe's actions were worse.

I don't mind what Kate is doing, personally -- it's kind of like arguing that a convicted murderer is a danger to children while knowing perfectly well that you yourself once killed someone in self-defense. In the end, you and the other person each took a life, but your reasons for doing so were completely different. Right or wrong, in Kate's mind, that's basically how she's viewing the situation.

Of course, having the nerve to criticize someone for doing something that you forced them to do is another matter entirely, but that has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
I don't think Kate even views things the way she claimed to when she was explaining why the situations were different. Unless the story has been changed, she knows full well that she had Quinn use blackmail to keep Chloe on the corner.
Yeah, I didn't think she genuinely believed or meant anything she was saying. Other than that Chloe is a slut and whatever other slur she dished out. But the bits about the hooking - I don't believe Kate really thinks Parker is in danger around Chloe for those reasons. In Kate's mind she just wants to sabotage Chloe and leverage Jennifer's immaculate moral standards and possible Daniel insecurities to that end.
Yeah, I didn't explain what I was talking about as well as I could have.

Of course Kate doesn't believe the parts that were about Chloe -- she just couldn't tell Jennifer the real story for obvious reasons. I was focused more on the parts that were about Kate. She acknowledged her hypocrisy and had an argument for why her actions had been justifiable -- she had sold her body because there had been an innocent child in the picture who had been depending on her, she had not had anyone else to turn to, and not doing whatever she could do to take care of her kid was simply not an option for her.

In other words, if you take Chloe out of the equation entirely and just focus on what Kate said, I could definitely see her believing that she had the right to criticize someone else for being a prostitute, hypocritical or not, if that person's reasons for being a prostitute were not born out of absolute necessity like Kate's were. I can see her believing that she had the right to hold her head up high and point out that, while they had both been "prostitutes" at one time in their lives, one had climbed out of that hole and made a name for herself at the earliest opportunity, while the other had remained a prostitute for years simply because she had been too lazy to try to change her life.

Similarly, a person who had murdered someone in self-defense could easily rationalize that they are "better" than a cold-blooded murderer, even though both people are, in the strictest sense of the word, "murderers".

Basically, I'm just saying that I can understand Kate's hypocrisy, and I feel like she believes that she has earned a right to it, so the scenes didn't bother me or make Kate look unnecessarily cruel to me. At least she acknowledges her hypocrisy, unlike Nick.
Edited by Will&Sonny, Jan 18 2013, 06:15 AM.
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Will&Sonny


I never have a problem understanding Roman, personally. That said, I don't particularly care for Josh Taylor, but there are other actors whom I would get rid of before I'd ever think about getting rid of Josh. Josh isn't on often enough for his acting to be offensive, IMO.
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Will&Sonny


I completely forgot to mention this earlier, but I loved how Jennifer managed to say "it's not my place" without choking on the irony.
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Will&Sonny


magicsteacher
Jan 17 2013, 07:39 PM
I haven't seen Sami working in weeks.
She was last seen working exactly two weeks ago yesterday (Thursday). She was in E.J.'s office (for unknown reasons), working on the ad campaign while E.J. was far more concerned with trying to get her to pay attention to him.
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elci525
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Will&Sonny
Jan 18 2013, 06:08 AM
elci525
Jan 17 2013, 08:30 PM
six
Jan 17 2013, 08:25 PM
Will&Sonny
Jan 17 2013, 07:01 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepdid acknowledge her hypocrisy. She even had a pretty good argument -- as far as these things go, anyway -- for why Chloe's actions were worse.

I don't mind what Kate is doing, personally -- it's kind of like arguing that a convicted murderer is a danger to children while knowing perfectly well that you yourself once killed someone in self-defense. In the end, you and the other person each took a life, but your reasons for doing so were completely different. Right or wrong, in Kate's mind, that's basically how she's viewing the situation.

Of course, having the nerve to criticize someone for doing something that you forced them to do is another matter entirely, but that has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
I don't think Kate even views things the way she claimed to when she was explaining why the situations were different. Unless the story has been changed, she knows full well that she had Quinn use blackmail to keep Chloe on the corner.
Yeah, I didn't think she genuinely believed or meant anything she was saying. Other than that Chloe is a slut and whatever other slur she dished out. But the bits about the hooking - I don't believe Kate really thinks Parker is in danger around Chloe for those reasons. In Kate's mind she just wants to sabotage Chloe and leverage Jennifer's immaculate moral standards and possible Daniel insecurities to that end.
Yeah, I didn't explain what I was talking about as well as I could have.

Of course Kate doesn't believe the parts that were about Chloe -- she just couldn't tell Jennifer the real story for obvious reasons. I was focused more on the parts that were about Kate. She acknowledged her hypocrisy and had an argument for why her actions had been justifiable -- she had sold her body because there had been an innocent child in the picture who had been depending on her, she had not had anyone else to turn to, and not doing whatever she could do to take care of her kid was simply not an option for her.

In other words, if you take Chloe out of the equation entirely and just focus on what Kate said, I could definitely see her believing that she had the right to criticize someone else for being a prostitute, hypocritical or not, if that person's reasons for being a prostitute were not born out of absolute necessity like Kate's were. I can see her believing that she had the right to hold her head up high and point out that, while they had both been "prostitutes" at one time in their lives, one had climbed out of that hole and made a name for herself at the earliest opportunity, while the other had remained a prostitute for years simply because she had been too lazy to try to change her life.

Similarly, a person who had murdered someone in self-defense could easily rationalize that they are "better" than a cold-blooded murderer, even though both people are, in the strictest sense of the word, "murderers".

Basically, I'm just saying that I can understand Kate's hypocrisy, and I feel like she believes that she has earned a right to it, so the scenes didn't bother me or make Kate look unnecessarily cruel to me. At least she acknowledges her hypocrisy, unlike Nick.
And I guess what I meant is that I really didn't find Kate HYPOCRITICAL in her speech, except for the parts where she called Chloe a noted home-wrecker (which I believe she does truly mean), which Jennifer aptly pointed out. And all Kate had in response to that was, "OK, can we try not to make things personal" which is hilariously lame. She did open herself up to the criticism of hypocrisy, and she covered decently. But like I said, I don't think she believed the things as she was saying them, Chloe-related or not, or like six said that she genuinely viewed the situations as she claimed to view them when she described the difference. If you are saying that for the made-up reason Kate had for why Chloe turned to prostitution (b/c she knows full-well why that happened) as opposed to why she had to do it, then yeah ok she had something of an argument. But it's all a fiction, and all part of a manipulation. So I never thought Kate hypocritical b/c hypocrisy didn't enter into it for me. The other woman with those other reasons for hooking is a figment of Kate's manipulation, so her well-rationed difference-pointing-out didn't strike me as her true words or a reflection of her true feelings - just some expert bullshitting. I don't know that she believes "that she has earned a right to" call out one woman's mistakes as different to her own - I just think she thought that would make for an effective cover and a valid-enough justification to play on Jennifer's morals.
Edited by elci525, Jan 18 2013, 09:26 AM.
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Harmony233


elci525
Jan 18 2013, 09:01 AM
Will&Sonny
Jan 18 2013, 06:08 AM
elci525
Jan 17 2013, 08:30 PM
six
Jan 17 2013, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepdid
Yeah, I didn't think she genuinely believed or meant anything she was saying. Other than that Chloe is a slut and whatever other slur she dished out. But the bits about the hooking - I don't believe Kate really thinks Parker is in danger around Chloe for those reasons. In Kate's mind she just wants to sabotage Chloe and leverage Jennifer's immaculate moral standards and possible Daniel insecurities to that end.
Yeah, I didn't explain what I was talking about as well as I could have.

Of course Kate doesn't believe the parts that were about Chloe -- she just couldn't tell Jennifer the real story for obvious reasons. I was focused more on the parts that were about Kate. She acknowledged her hypocrisy and had an argument for why her actions had been justifiable -- she had sold her body because there had been an innocent child in the picture who had been depending on her, she had not had anyone else to turn to, and not doing whatever she could do to take care of her kid was simply not an option for her.

In other words, if you take Chloe out of the equation entirely and just focus on what Kate said, I could definitely see her believing that she had the right to criticize someone else for being a prostitute, hypocritical or not, if that person's reasons for being a prostitute were not born out of absolute necessity like Kate's were. I can see her believing that she had the right to hold her head up high and point out that, while they had both been "prostitutes" at one time in their lives, one had climbed out of that hole and made a name for herself at the earliest opportunity, while the other had remained a prostitute for years simply because she had been too lazy to try to change her life.

Similarly, a person who had murdered someone in self-defense could easily rationalize that they are "better" than a cold-blooded murderer, even though both people are, in the strictest sense of the word, "murderers".

Basically, I'm just saying that I can understand Kate's hypocrisy, and I feel like she believes that she has earned a right to it, so the scenes didn't bother me or make Kate look unnecessarily cruel to me. At least she acknowledges her hypocrisy, unlike Nick.
And I guess what I meant is that I really didn't find Kate HYPOCRITICAL in her speech, except for the parts where she called Chloe a noted home-wrecker, which Jennifer aptly pointed out. And all Kate had in response to that was, "OK, can we try not to make things personal" which is hilariously lame. She did open herself up to the criticism of hypocrisy, and she covered decently. But like I said, I don't think she believed the things as she was saying them, Chloe-related or not, or like six said that she genuinely viewed the situations as she claimed to view them when she described the difference. If you are saying that for the made-up reason Kate had for why Chloe turned to prostitution (b/c she knows full-well why that happened) as opposed to why she had to do it, then yeah ok she had something of an argument. But it's all a fiction, and all part of a manipulation. So I never thought Kate hypocritical b/c hypocrisy didn't enter into it for me. The other woman with those other reasons for hooking is a figment of Kate's manipulation, so her well-rationed difference-pointing-out didn't strike me as her true words or a reflection of her true feelings - just some expert bullshitting. I don't know that she believes "that she has earned a right to" call out one woman's mistakes as different to her own - I just think she thought that would make for an effective cover and a valid-enough justification to play on Jennifer's morals.
At least kate was called out on her hypocricity by jennifer though lol I'm still dying for someone to call sami out on hers
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Lil
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I haven't actually finished watching this epi yet...but when Creamed Spinach Mouth walked in on Marlena and Kristen I SWEAR before he left I heard him say, "Kristen, I'll come back after you've slept with the Mayor." I nearly fell off of my chair laughing. I know there's no way in Hell that's what he actually said, but I kind of don't care or want to know what he said because that was just so fucking funny. lol
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