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Wednesday, February 6th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Feb 6 2013, 09:02 AM (8,715 Views)
Pookie
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Are these prison flashback supposed to make me sympathetic towards Nick? Because they're not. It just illuminating the crazy for me.
Edited by Pookie, Feb 6 2013, 05:16 PM.
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six
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tomsawyer
Feb 6 2013, 04:34 PM
six
Feb 6 2013, 04:15 PM
Harmony233
Feb 6 2013, 03:58 PM
six
Feb 6 2013, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
To me sami will never be like Kate because shes never been obessed with her kids like Kate was it comes off false from sami
IDK, I see them as very similar. Sami isn't obsessed with all of her kds, but then, neither was Kate. It's been so long ago that I don't remember much about the early Kate/Lucas relationship for sure, but I don't think Kate got obsessive over the children she raised until they started going through tough times, similar to what Matt said about Sami.
You know what I like about how Sami treats her kids? She pretty much ignores her girls and is completely obsessive over her boys. That seems VERY fitting for her character.
I never thought about that, but it's true.

I don't think there is a heroine or a villain (until recently) in the baby story.
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

tomsawyer
Feb 6 2013, 04:34 PM
six
Feb 6 2013, 04:15 PM
Harmony233
Feb 6 2013, 03:58 PM
six
Feb 6 2013, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
To me sami will never be like Kate because shes never been obessed with her kids like Kate was it comes off false from sami
IDK, I see them as very similar. Sami isn't obsessed with all of her kds, but then, neither was Kate. It's been so long ago that I don't remember much about the early Kate/Lucas relationship for sure, but I don't think Kate got obsessive over the children she raised until they started going through tough times, similar to what Matt said about Sami.
You know what I like about how Sami treats her kids? She pretty much ignores her girls and is completely obsessive over her boys. That seems VERY fitting for her character.
This I agree with because it also seems to apply to the Rafe/Sami material leading up to the EJ/Sami reunion. They might have intended for Sami to be with Rafe for all of the reasons she told EJ, but that is definitely NOT how it was written or how it was acted. I'm certain the wanted the EJ/Sami reunion to be treated as a "surprise twist" (hence the lack of proper foreshadowing leading to Sami's speech), but sometimes those surprise twists lead to viewers going WTF was that and where the hell did that come from (I falling into that category). IMO, TPTB need to communicate story direction/trust/proper motivations with the cast/writers instead of letting them wing it based only on whatever's on the page in front of them at any given moment.
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Harmony233


When Lucas first came to town.HE was upset with Kate because she wouldn't tell him the truth about his father.I think Austin was kates fav up to a point then it turned into LUcas.After all she took LUcas's side when Austin wanted full custody of Will.Ironically I came across clips from 99 of Billie whining that Lucas was kates fav and that Kate always took his side lol.
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Harmony233


I don't like how sami ignores the girls either.
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blueskies
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tomsawyer
Feb 6 2013, 04:39 PM
DaysPossessed
Feb 6 2013, 04:37 PM
Kate's obsession with her kids started when they started having a love life.
Which is pretty much the same as Will. And then Johnny is just obviously her favorite. I'd love to see Sami's reaction to Johnny's first girlfriend. Too bad the show will be off the air by then.
You never know, it might not be.

Besides they still have the option to soras Johnny or put him in one of those 3rd grade relationships.
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supercool74
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stormymac
Feb 6 2013, 03:10 PM
guessgirl
Feb 6 2013, 02:43 PM
Was I suppose to find Will confessing him willing up to give his baby up for Sonny romantic, touching, swoon worthy? Because I didn't. Your child should come first always. Not your boyfriend, significant other, wife, husband etc. Frankly if someone was willing to give up their own flesh and blood for another person it doesn't speak much for their character to me.
Actually, I don't think we were supposed to find the confession "romantic, touching, swoon worthy." Will said that choosing Sonny over his own child was messed up and selfish. Sonny took Will's hand, not as a romantic gesture, but as a compassionate one because of how upset Will was that he made such a wrong choice.

Also, I don't think that becoming so obsessed with someone that you kill for them(pills or no pills) or you hire someone to stalk you and then, when they kidnap your obsession's girlfriend(supposedly your best friend), you not only don't tell the police, but you also give them a heads up when the police are on their way says much for someone's character either. Not to mention the phrase "gay boy" becoming a prominent part of one's vocabulary. Of course YMMV. :shrug:
Will's admission that he gave up the baby for Sonny was not intended to come off as swoon-worthy. He admitted that he was selfish and was very self-deprecating about it. The only reason he even said it was because he was trying to defend Nick/Gabi (who don't deserve it IMO). He knows he screwed up and is paying the price now. At this point, he doesn't seem to be trying to win Sonny back or beg for forgiveness. I think at this point he believes that he's lost Sonny for good and he's miserable, and he most likely feels guilty over the fact that he was willing to give up his baby when he so obviously is in love with her now.
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tomsawyer
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Matt
Feb 6 2013, 04:41 PM
This I agree with because it also seems to apply to the Rafe/Sami material leading up to the EJ/Sami reunion. They might have intended for Sami to be with Rafe for all of the reasons she told EJ, but that is definitely NOT how it was written or how it was acted. I'm certain the wanted the EJ/Sami reunion to be treated as a "surprise twist" (hence the lack of proper foreshadowing leading to Sami's speech), but sometimes those surprise twists lead to viewers going WTF was that and where the hell did that come from (I falling into that category). IMO, TPTB need to communicate story direction/trust/proper motivations with the cast/writers instead of letting them wing it based only on whatever's on the page in front of them at any given moment.
Now that we know the conclusion, I actually went back and watched some of the Safe/Ejami stuff from mid-November onward (since that's when they made the obvious shift from the early fall Safe angst stuff to writing an actual triangle) to see if I could make sense of the ending. Knowing what I know now, I get what they were trying to do with the story. There was a clear theme in the Ejami scenes of EJ being supportive of who she was and also more romantic with her. And a clear theme in the Safe scenes of Rafe criticizing her behavior and being more sexually aggressive. So they did an okay job with showing why she'd choose EJ over Rafe in terms of who the men are and how they treat her.

But where they really messed up their story was in how they tried to play Sami's confusion and initially making the "wrong" choice. They included a couple of anti-EJ/pro-Rafe moments with her family to set up for it being a "wrong" decision based on family expectations, but they didn't do that well enough for it to be really believable. But more importantly, I don't think the "family expectations" motivation was the best one to play. If I was writing it, I would've made the triangle into more of a character exploration of who Sami really is and wants to be. I would've had Rafe still judging her selfish behavior, but would've also had him encourage her to quit her job, move back into the loft and and focus on him and the kids. On the other hand, I would've had EJ still accepting of all her selfish ways, but would've also had him encourage her to make work a priority and do underhanded things to get ahead if need be. Then, I would've added more pressure from her family to be a good wife and mother, and a good person overall. To me, that would've made more sense in terms of why Sami would originally make the "wrong" choice, but also add more poignancy when she ultimately made the "right" one because it wouldn't just be about the men, it would've also been about her and who she wants to be.

P.S. "wrong" and "right" are in quotes because I'm using them just in relation to Sami's decision, not a broader sense of right and wrong.
Edited by tomsawyer, Feb 6 2013, 05:25 PM.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

tomsawyer
Feb 6 2013, 05:16 PM
Matt
Feb 6 2013, 04:41 PM
This I agree with because it also seems to apply to the Rafe/Sami material leading up to the EJ/Sami reunion. They might have intended for Sami to be with Rafe for all of the reasons she told EJ, but that is definitely NOT how it was written or how it was acted. I'm certain the wanted the EJ/Sami reunion to be treated as a "surprise twist" (hence the lack of proper foreshadowing leading to Sami's speech), but sometimes those surprise twists lead to viewers going WTF was that and where the hell did that come from (I falling into that category). IMO, TPTB need to communicate story direction/trust/proper motivations with the cast/writers instead of letting them wing it based only on whatever's on the page in front of them at any given moment.
Now that we know the conclusion, I actually went back and watched some of the Safe/Ejami stuff from mid-November onward (since that's when they made the obvious shift from the early fall Safe angst stuff to writing an actual triangle) to see if I could make sense of the ending. Knowing what I know now, I get what they were trying to do with the story. There was a clear theme in the Ejami scenes of EJ being supportive of who she was and also more romantic with her. And a clear theme in the Safe scenes of Rafe criticizing her behavior and being more sexually aggressive. So they did an okay job with showing why she'd choose EJ over Rafe in terms of who the men are and how they treat her.

But where they really messed up their story was in how they tried to play Sami's confusion and initially making the "wrong" choice. They included a couple of anti-EJ/pro-Rafe moments with her family to set up for it being a "wrong" decision based on family expectations, but they didn't do that well enough for it to be really believable. But more importantly, I don't think the "family expectations" motivation was the best one to play. If I was writing it, I would've made the triangle into more of a character exploration of who Sami really is and wants to be. I would've had Rafe still judging her selfish behavior, but would've also had him encourage her to quit her job, move back into the loft and and focus on him and the kids. On the other hand, I would've had EJ still accepting of all her selfish ways, but would've also had him encourage her to make work a priority and do underhanded things to get ahead if need be. Then, I would've added more pressure from her family to be a good wife and mother, and a good person overall. To me, that would've made more sense in terms of why Sami would originally make the "wrong" choice, but also add more poignancy when she ultimately made the "right" one because it wouldn't just be about the men, it would've also been about her and who she wants to be.

P.S. "wrong" and "right" are in quotes because I'm using them just in relation to Sami's decision, not a broader sense of right and wrong.
Solely on bolded...that would have been good if that was the main excuse they used for her to want to choose Rafe instead of Ej. Instead, they used the stupid, 'my family thought he was the right one for me and therefore I chose to be with the safe choice'....IMHO that is the problem here....there was never any true indication of that happening, and even with the one little itty bitty scene where Hope and her talk about Safe getting back together, there was no indication that Sami wasn't happy. Shit, she was jumping up and down like a little girl.....and this was before the Bope comparison and all. I agree with Matt...to me it felt flat...the flashbacks should have centered more about how SAMI viewed Ej and her relationship with him over her relationship with Rafe and they didn't. We barely got any flashbacks of Ejami while overwhelming amounts of Safe ones. IDK, I just think the entire lead up to this decision was very poorly executed on the writing level.

I pretty much agree with your other paragraph though
Edited by LuvingLumi, Feb 6 2013, 05:30 PM.
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SoapGal1
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Another very good show. So many things I loved I'm not sure where to start..

Victor was priceless, but I'm going to need him to star transporting some drugs or something.

Victor calling Brady a nincompoop was classic. And when he did the Shirley Temple dimple twist, I literally LOL.

Good to see some movement with Ericole. I can still see the spark, but I'm ready for them to amp it up.

Kristen & Nicole are gold. If we don't see them scheming together at some point, i will truly be disappointed.

I'm liking Sonny not trusting Nabi. Hopefully, in at some point, he'll save the day for Will.

Ding dong Safe is dead & I couldn't be happier. This is how they should've always played off each other. Sami is Sami, and I'm beyond happy about that. I loved how calm she was opposite Rafes "not calm". Given, it's not much of a change for GG, but the man is very limited.

Nick is totally creeping me out in a good way. BB is playing the hell out of this.

Overall, another win for Days. They really seem to be firing on all cylinders. Hope it lasts past sweeps.

Oh, and again, what the hell is Sami wearing?

Wardrobe Dept, you are the weakest link.
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concerned
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tomsawyer
Feb 6 2013, 04:39 PM
DaysPossessed
Feb 6 2013, 04:37 PM
Kate's obsession with her kids started when they started having a love life.
Which is pretty much the same as Will. And then Johnny is just obviously her favorite. I'd love to see Sami's reaction to Johnny's first girlfriend. Too bad the show will be off the air by then.
We've probably been down this track before... but I can see reasons why Sami might subconsiously over-compensate in the love dept with Johnny.
Maybe they are laying the seeds down for storyline in 10 years time.
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Honeybees
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supercool74
Feb 6 2013, 05:03 PM
stormymac
Feb 6 2013, 03:10 PM
guessgirl
Feb 6 2013, 02:43 PM
Was I suppose to find Will confessing him willing up to give his baby up for Sonny romantic, touching, swoon worthy? Because I didn't. Your child should come first always. Not your boyfriend, significant other, wife, husband etc. Frankly if someone was willing to give up their own flesh and blood for another person it doesn't speak much for their character to me.
Actually, I don't think we were supposed to find the confession "romantic, touching, swoon worthy." Will said that choosing Sonny over his own child was messed up and selfish. Sonny took Will's hand, not as a romantic gesture, but as a compassionate one because of how upset Will was that he made such a wrong choice.

Also, I don't think that becoming so obsessed with someone that you kill for them(pills or no pills) or you hire someone to stalk you and then, when they kidnap your obsession's girlfriend(supposedly your best friend), you not only don't tell the police, but you also give them a heads up when the police are on their way says much for someone's character either. Not to mention the phrase "gay boy" becoming a prominent part of one's vocabulary. Of course YMMV. :shrug:
Will's admission that he gave up the baby for Sonny was not intended to come off as swoon-worthy. He admitted that he was selfish and was very self-deprecating about it. The only reason he even said it was because he was trying to defend Nick/Gabi (who don't deserve it IMO). He knows he screwed up and is paying the price now. At this point, he doesn't seem to be trying to win Sonny back or beg for forgiveness. I think at this point he believes that he's lost Sonny for good and he's miserable, and he most likely feels guilty over the fact that he was willing to give up his baby when he so obviously is in love with her now.
The tone was very different from Will's attempted seduction of Sonny the other day. Will seemed genuinely remorseful, and the tone of his scene with Sonny reminded me far more of when they were friends and Will was coming out rather than anything they had as boyfriends. Sonny has compassion for Will, that's all.

I still think the very notion that Will gave up his baby for Sonny is horseshit, and a mini-retcon. He never once said that was his main motive. Fear of losing Sonny kept him quiet, but the initial decision to go along with Nick's plan was all about not being ready and wanting a stable home for his child. But the writers have chosen to up play this angle.

However, Will is actually remorseful for everything? Nick? Not remorseful, and furious that the gay boy interfered with his control. Will was never comfortable with the lie, while Nick is furious that Will didn't continue it. I'd say Will's got the higher moral ground here.

And just because it can't be said often enough. Giving up a child for official, legal adoption is not weak, cowardly or the easy way out. If a person is not capable of providing a good home for a child, it's the responsible thing to do. Will's actions manifested poorly in that he went through not legal channels. I sincerely hope that people who have given their children up for adoption are not hurt by the tone of the show, particularly in the shaming of Will's impulse to want a better life for his kid. As a child of adoption, I certainly have been hurt by the characterization of Will as someone who was abandoning his child and should be shamed for it. He said over and over he wanted the best for his child, and that he wasn't sure he was ready or able to give that.

I certainly get that there's some artificial drama built in here, and they aren't in the business of a real adoption story. But as someone who is very grateful my birth mother had the courage to give me up to a better life, I do find some of the framing kind of ignorant.
Edited by Honeybees, Feb 6 2013, 06:54 PM.
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esp13
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I don't think this is supposed to be any kind of adoption story. I think the whole point is that Will wasn't really giving up his kid for a better life, but because he was scared of the fallout of people knowing he was the kid's father and out of a reaction to his upbringing and custody battles. I'm not saying Will had bad motives and I truly believe he didn't want the kid to go through what he did, but I don't think anything about this was about the kid having a better life with Nick and Gabi than she would with Will in the picture.

I think this show gets overdone about biological children sometimes, but they have also shown support for adoptive families. Mickey and Maggie adopted Melissa, for example, and she's never been treated as something less than a "real" Horton. Mike always called Mickey, "Dad" even after learning the truth. Jack is still a Deveraux, and was shown to love Harper, even after learning he was a Johnson and even after Harper went to prison. Hell, even Rafe's love for Sami's kids (as criticized as it gets) shows that biology doesn't mean everything.
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Supergirlx2
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"Right now what I like most about Aiden is Hope" ~ DC

esp13
Feb 6 2013, 07:13 PM
I don't think this is supposed to be any kind of adoption story. I think the whole point is that Will wasn't really giving up his kid for a better life, but because he was scared of the fallout of people knowing he was the kid's father and out of a reaction to his upbringing and custody battles. I'm not saying Will had bad motives and I truly believe he didn't want the kid to go through what he did, but I don't think anything about this was about the kid having a better life with Nick and Gabi than she would with Will in the picture.

I think this show gets overdone about biological children sometimes, but they have also shown support for adoptive families. Mickey and Maggie adopted Melissa, for example, and she's never been treated as something less than a "real" Horton. Mike always called Mickey, "Dad" even after learning the truth. Jack is still a Deveraux, and was shown to love Harper, even after learning he was a Johnson and even after Harper went to prison. Hell, even Rafe's love for Sami's kids (as criticized as it gets) shows that biology doesn't mean everything.
You forgot about Bo still being a Brady, even though Victor is his biological father.
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Dee-anne


SoapGal1
Feb 6 2013, 05:55 PM


Ding dong Safe is dead & I couldn't be happier. This is how they should've always played off each other. Sami is Sami, and I'm beyond happy about that. I loved how calm she was opposite Rafes "not calm". Given, it's not much of a change for GG, but the man is very limited.

I actually thought GG did far better than AS today. I could tell he was hurt, upset, and disappointed. He also showed contempt, but AS as usual does nothing for me. I was cheering Rafe on as he told her exactly what he thought of her, But I saw little reaction from Sami. It was as if nothing Rafe said phased her in the least. He might as well have not wasted his time talking to her. I would have gained more of a satisfaction from those scenes if she showed some sort of re-action to his words, and not just to simply talk back. I ended up feeling that it was just a waste of time on Rafe's part, but I guess he got what he felt off his chest.

The reason I wanted to see some sort of emotion from her, is because this is a man that she has claimed many times that she loved, Yet she is behaving as if all her love for him died when he decided to defend his sister from her bullying. It is so dead, that she moved on to another man within a week and thinks nothing of it. It is so dead that non of his words can hurt her.
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Lanemack
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Sami's lipstick was certainly distracting. Pretty bad when your lipstick clashes with your coat.

This is the first Rafe/Sami scene I've ever enjoyed. No Rafe/Sami "we're destiny" overtones - just nastiness. Oh, Sami, mentioning "the best night of her life". Hehe. Don't think that she was doing it to make St. Rafe jealous, either. He's seen the writing on the wall for some time, I'm sure - at least that's what I like to believe.

The only thing I don't like is the EJ/Rafe switch in pretty much the same plot - now it's Rafe fighting with Sami over "their baby" (o.k. - Gabi and Will's baby but it's pretty much the same thing) with EJ standing in Sami's corner to fight for her. Hope there's some surprises.
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AFaithL


Watching live....

Hope, BACK OFF!! Loved Nicole snarking on her.
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Reese
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♥ Soulmates ♥

LuvingLumi
Feb 6 2013, 02:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 6 2013, 01:54 PM
cord08
Feb 6 2013, 01:49 PM
More Hope foreshadowing...
i really hope that it's that Hope doesn't know where Bo is, not that they're having marriage troubles. At least it was Victor asking this time, not someone who doesn't need to be sticking their nose in Hope's business.
I'm going to assume that she won't hear from him...he'll go 'missing' or something.....I just wish they would really think this through better though.....they could have used the opportunity that they were writing Billie off and as her exit story have her made a few secret phone calls here and there....tell someone on the other line that she will be there by the new year, and then have Hope hear those exchanges once or twice. Get Rachel to make a one time appearance as Chelsea....have her call for her father and find out he isn't in town and she hasn't heard from him in weeks, then have her say to Hope, 'that's strange I spoke to my mom and she said that she had just heard from my father'....leave it like a very vague set of references over time that leads Hope to assume that Bo might have run off with Billie....obviously it'll be nothing but at least they could have put a bit more thought into this.....then move Hope on to someone else and have them start a relationship after she thinks her husband has abandoned her and then bring Bo back to Salem at just the right time...when Hope and whomever are about to tie the knot.
That would be way too entertaining and, not to mention, make way too much sense.
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AFaithL


Brady, you are so sexy....now shave your face.

Kristen, you know how you might get a proposal? By not being such a bitch. And treating Brady like a woman in love treats a man...with respect.

Brady is too good for your ass. Too bad your chemistry is so strong, that it roped me in.
Edited by AFaithL, Feb 6 2013, 08:10 PM.
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AFaithL


Hope: shut up, shut up, shut up

Love Eric/Nicole.
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