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Wednesday, March 20th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Mar 20 2013, 05:22 AM (8,564 Views)
Bright Eyes
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Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:30 AM
I know who Vargas reminds me of! Matt Battaglia! (ex-J.L. King)
Does mean that Kristian Alfonso is going to get him fired?
Edited by Bright Eyes, Mar 21 2013, 12:32 AM.
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Bright Eyes
Mar 21 2013, 12:31 AM
Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:30 AM
I know who Vargas reminds me of! Matt Battaglia! (ex-J.L. King)
Does mean that Kristian Alfonso is going to get him fired?
I thought it was Jeff Griggs (ex-Jude St. Clair) that she got fired because of his hardcore gay porn past or something or other. I never heard about Battaglia getting fired because of KA.
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Jason47
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Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:30 AM
I know who Vargas reminds me of! Matt Battaglia! (ex-J.L. King)
Just saw Matt on The Big Bang Theory last month. He played a cop. And he's now a Daytime Emmy winner, for producing the courtroom program Judge Gunn.
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Jason47
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Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:50 AM
I thought it was Jeff Griggs (ex-Jude St. Clair) that she got fired
Guess he and Days mended fences pretty quickly, since Jeff was back a few years later in that "virtual reality" story with Austin/Greta.
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james0479
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concerned
Mar 20 2013, 11:12 PM
JamaicanBeauty7
Mar 20 2013, 11:06 PM
I just watched Days. Most of it was either eh or ff worthy.

Except Vargas. He made the mother-fuckin' show. It's like he got hotter as the episode went on. Then right at the end he was shirtless AND sweaty! :wub: I'm in (shallow) love! Which means he'll probably get killed off by May sweeps. Remember Psycho!Andrew? -_-

But until then, hot Vargas is hot! :cloud9:
That ass ......BAM! Lol.
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PatNS
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Please note: This report is not to be copied and pasted to any other sites. Please link only. Link to summary archive:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/358635/


Director: Herb Stein
Scriptwriter: David A.. Levinson


Segment 1: Kirsten says Okay, I'll marry you. They kiss. Kristen - Why did you change your mind? No, it doesn't matter why you did change your mind, it only matters that you did. And I'm so happy to marry you; I'm thrilled to marry you; I'm excited to marry you. Brady - Me too. More kisses. Kristen - Just one thing about you doing this whole 180 thing. You were so concerned about how John and Marlena would feel about us getting engaged. If you have any kind of reservation ... Brady finally gets a word in - Let me talk. I have no reservations because it feels so right. It feels right in my heart and I love you. I've never see you look this happy. You're really happy, aren't you? She is.

Nicole is at the coffeehouse drinking coffee and talking to herself. If Eric is going to continue sticking his holier than thou neck out for that menace to society; inviting him to live under our roof like some long lost friend ... well, there's really nothing I can do about it. She picks up a brown envelope. Someone's got to do God's work and it might as well be me. She leaves.

Hope, Eric and Vargas enter the rectory. Hope immediately comments about the heat. It's like an oven in here. Eric will check the thermostat. Vargas comments that the radiatior is alive and kicking. Eric adds that it's over a 100 degrees on the thermostat. He'll check and see if he can turn off the heat using the hallway control. Vargas - Can I ask you a question Detective? Hope - Sure. What do you have in mind? Vargas - I was wondering if you could recommend some counselling that might be available to me now that I'm on the outside. Hope can do that. Vargas - I was thinking it might be helpful. I can't imagine anyone spending time locked up and not wanting to talk about it.

Nick and Gabi are in bed after making love. Nick - Does it feel differently to you now that we're married. Gabi - It feels better.

Abby notices Jen's suitcase and asks if she's going somewhere. Yeah, Smith Island. Abby - By yourself? Jen - I just need to get away for a couple of days. Abby - From Daniel? Jen - You know sweetie I wish that there was something we could do to make this right but obviously Daniel has decided that we are too much work. Given everything that has happened I can't say that he's wrong. Abby - Why are you so angry with Daniel. Cue flashbacks. Jen - Sweetie I appreciate your concern and that you want to help but this is not a conversation I want to have right now. Abby - Okay, I understand. Is there anything I can do? Jen - No, I'm good. It's all me right now and I just need to step back and put my mind on other things. Abby offers to go with her - they don't have to talk. Jen - No because I don't want you to put your life on hold. I'm going to be gone for a couple of days. Abby - Are you sure? Jen is positive. Abby - What if you called Daniel one last time? Jen - We have talked this through, we really have and honestly, the last thing that I want today is to hear from Daniel Jonas.

Dan finishes packing. I can't leave it like this Jen. Maybe if each of us talk and listen we could ... he looks at the pictures again ... there's still time before my flight. I've got to make it right. No, I'm not going to call her. I'm just going to show up and tell her that I love her and take it from there. He rushes out of his hotel room.

Nancy comes into the living room and asks Chloe what she's doing. Chloe - Seeing if there's a seat on the next flight to San Francisco. Nancy - No Chloe. You have overplayed your hand with Daniel more than once and not succeeded. Your luck is going to run out sooner or later. Hang up the phone! Chloe - There's a seat on the 10pm flight. Nancy grabs the phone. You are not going to be on that flight. Chloe - Would you chill out Mom! Nancy - No! You need to chill out unless you want to drive Daniel back into Jennifer's needy, clingy arms. Chloe - Of course I don't. I want her out of his life. I want that dreary loser out of all of our lives for good. Nancy - If you want Jennifer to disappear then you can't push things. Chloe agrees. So I'm going to think about it. Nancy - How refreshening. My daughter is actually going to think about it instead of barging in and screwing up her life for the 9 millionth time. Chloe - Thanks for the ego boost Ma. Nancy - Get your ego out of this missy. It's not about egos, it's about strategizing. If you want Daniel back you've got to strategize. Chloe - Fine okay, I get it. Nancy - Where are you going? Chloe - To get Parker. We're going to go for a walk and figure out a way for him, me and his daddy to be a family again.


Segment 2: John is in the park on his cell leaving a message for Brady. Aw come on kid, call me back. I really need to talk to you. We can work this out. I know we can.

Brady sees he has a message from Dad but puts his phone in his pocket when Kristen comes into the living room with a bottle of sparkling cider. Brady - Can we keep it on ice for a little while, there's something I've got to do. Kristen - You're aware you just proposed to me. Brady is very aware of that. Trust me, I'm not having second thoughts. There's just something I've got to do that's extremely important to me. Kristen - I guess we've got our whole lives to celebrate. Brady hugs her - Darn right we do. Kisses. Brady will be back soon. He leaves. Kristen paces - This is really happening. I've got to share this news with somebody.

Hope - I'm impressed Vargas and I'm glad that you're able to see this as an opportunity to turn your life around. Vargas - Because it is. Eric returns. I couldn't get the heat turned down so somebody is going to come and fix it. In the meantime I know a place where we can go and have lunch. They leave.

Gabi feels so lucky. Nick - Me too. I promise you this is just the beginning. I'm going to make every moment of our lives perfect. Gabi - You're off to a very good start. Nick - So listen Maggie offered for you to move in with me at the mansion as I have to live with a family member until my parole is over. I was thinking we could take her up on the offer and then when Arianna Grace is born we can look into getting a place of our own. Gabi - You've given this a lot of thought I see. Nick - Yes I have because I think about our future a lot. What do you say? Gabi - I say I think it's a good idea. Her cell rings. It's Caroline. Yes, I can do that. No problem. Bye. She tells Nick Caroline wants her to cover for her because she has therapy. You don't mind, right? Nick - What's a few hours. We're married now. We have the rest of our lives to spend together.

Nancy opens the door to Dan's apt when someone knocks. It's Nicole. Is Chloe here. Nancy - No she's gone out. Nicole waltzes in - Good, I've got plenty of time to kill. Nancy - I did not invite you in. Nicole - I'm so sorry. That was so rude. Oh wait, you're just a house guest here and wearing out your welcome I'm assuming. Nancy - Get out. Nicole - No. You see, you can't kick me out of Daniel's place. Nancy - What do you want? Why are you here? Nicole - To make sure Chloe knows her place.

Chloe and Parker are in the square and come face to face with Jennifer.

Abby opens the door to Daniel. Is your Mom here. I need to talk to her. It's really important. Abby - You're too late. She's already gone. Dan - What do you mean gone? Abby - She's gone out to Smith Island to be alone.

Chloe notice what Jen has in her hand. Oh is that a ticket on the ferry to Smith Island? The quickest way to the dock is in that direction past the Brady Pub. Jen - I appreciate it Chloe. Having grown up here I never would have known that. Chloe - Hey, I don't want you to miss the boat and I'm not speaking metaphorically. What I mean is I wouldn't want anything to ruin your trip.


Segment 3: Eric, Hope and Vargas enter the Brady Pub. Hope asks Vargas if he's okay. Vargas - Yeah, it's just I haven't been in a public place like this in a long time. I think it's going to take a little getting used to. Hope - Just take your time, relax. She goes up to Gabi and greets her. Gabi asks if they're ready to order. Hope - I'm not seeing things. You're really here and you're working! What are you doing here? You just got married this morning. Gabi - Well it probably slipped Caroline's mind. She had therapy and she asked me to cover for her. Hope - And you didn't say anything. Gabi - Well no, she's been so great to me and Nick. It's no big deal. I'm happy to do it. Hope hugs her - Thank you. It's very kind of you and very much appreciated. Gabi - It's no big deal. Eric tells Vargas the prison is running a Job Bank; they can help you prepare a resume, look for employment opportunities online. Vargas - I'm not sure what's out there for a guy like me. I'm not a genius like some people but I'm not afraid of working hard for what I want.

Dan can't believe he missed her. I have this conference for a few days. I wanted to talk to her before I left and tell her ... Abby - My mom didn't say too much to me but I got the sense the last time you two talked it didn't go well. Dan recalls part of their conversation. I shouldn't have come by. Abby - Probably not. He hands Abby the pictures. Would you mind if I left these for her. Abby - She looks really happy here; you both do. Abby gets a call. Dan opens the door to leave and Kristen is standing there. Hi, just where do you think you're going Mister!

Nicole looks at the throw pillows on the couch. I'm guessing you picked these out. Nancy - Why would you say that! Nicole - Judging from Chloe's lingerie, she's a leopard print girl. Nancy - You know Nicole if you don't have something nice to say perhaps you should shut your mouth. Nicole - Does Daniel know his squatters are redecorating in his absence? Nancy - Daniel told us to make ourselves at home. Nicole smiles - I'm pretty sure he was just being nice. Nancy - You know Nicole if you have some information my daughter might find useful I'd be happy to impart it to her. Nicole - Useful? You mean her tramptastic pursuit for Daniel? Nancy - My daughter is not a tramp. Nicole - You're right, desperate is probably a better word. I told her she's on her own. She has to do her own dirty work. Nancy - You are such a fairweather friend. Nicole - I think I've been there for Chloe more than you have. Nancy - You know what Nicole, that door has not moved since you sashayed through it, perhaps you'd like to leave. Nicole - I'm having such a good time catching up with you. How is that out of your league husband of yours doing anyway? Nancy - Oh Nicole, you really should leave before I hurt you. Nicole - I'm sorry, I can't. I have business with my fairweather friend. I hope you brought an umbrella because I'm about to rain all over Chloe Lane's parade.

Chloe - I don't need to tell you how beautiful the cabin is this time of year, close to spring. Lucas and I, we were really happy living there until I met Daniel ... you know the rest. Jen - Why are you doing this? Chloe - Excuse me. Jen - Have you no sense of decency Chloe? I know that we have our differences but why are you doing this? I'm trying to walk away from the situation and you're just trying to provoke me. Chloe - Why are you being so hostile? We have history, you and I. We were family, remember. Jen - No, you were just a horrible mistake that my brother made. Chloe - Wow, the claws come out. Jen laughs - My claws come out? Right, oh, btw, Daniel's not here so you don't need to turn on the performance for the Chloe Lane theatre. Chloe - I'm just trying to make conversation. Jen - Really? Do you want to talk? I would love to talk. Why don't we talk about last night? Chloe - What? Jen - Oh what? Really, somehow and I don't know how you did this, but you knew I was going to see Daniel. And when I got there you made it look like you'd been in bed with him and then you went through so much trouble to tell me it wasn't what it looked like; pretending to be so innocent when we all know that is one thing that you are not. Chloe - I don't know what I did to make you think I'd go to such extremes ... Jen - Oh stop it and wipe that smug look off your face. You lie! You are such a liar. And you know what, maybe you just need a big dose of the truth and that is, that you are a duplicitous little tramp. Chloe - Wow. Jen - What? Chloe - I had my doubts about you but now I'm 100% certain that Daniel will never, ever, ever want to be with you.


Segment 4: Hope goes up to Gabi's room and gives Nick a hug. Oh my gosh look at you ... glowing. I just want to say thank you so much for being so incredibly understanding and letting Gabi cover for Caroline on your wedding day. Nick - Of course. Caroline's always been in my corner; it's the least I can do. Hope - I really am so proud of you Nick. The way you've gotten your life back on track, it's incredible. You really seem happy. Nick - I am. Why do I sense a but coming? Hope - But I think it still might be a really good idea to talk to someone about your time in prison. I love you. I only want the best for you. I want your happiness with Gabi to last a lifetime but if you're carrying around some baggage from your time on the inside, I don't want it to come back and haunt you. So would you at least think about talking to someone.

Vargas - It's not just that I spent the last decade behind bars, I've been in and out of institutions my whole life. That's really what I know, not that I'm looking for sympathy or anything. Eric - I know. I truly believe everything is going to work out. Vargas - I hope you're right Father. Either way, I've got a good outlook now and I'm going to make the best of this opportunity that you've given me; make sure that I never see the inside of a cage again.

Brady finds John in the park. John - Did you get my message? Brady - What do you want? John - I'm not perfect kid. I made a mistake and I was wrong to lie to you; to mislead you about accepting your relationship with Kristen. But you've got to know I did what I did because I love you. You're my son and all of my instincts were propelling me to try and protect you; to take care of you, to keep you from getting hurt. I just hope that you can find it in your heart to give your old man a second chance.

Kristen - I'm so happy to find you here. I guess I'm not the only one with good news to share. Where's Jennifer? Is she here? Dan - No, she took off for a couple of days actually. I was just heading out myself. Kristen - Oh, I guess from the look on your face, you guys did not patch things up. Dan - No. Kristen - I just assumed that because you were here ... sorry. I guess, I'm just going to leave a note for Jennifer then. Dan - Sounds good. I'll see you later. Kristen - Wait Daniel. I don't know if you're aware of my history with Jennifer. It's kind of complicated. We were really good friends then ... we're kind of friends again. I care about her so I'm going to dive right in and ask you. Did you do it?

Jen - You are even more deluded than I thought. To think that you believe you have any insight into Daniel or me. Chloe - How dare you talk to me like that in front of my son, Daniel's son. How do you know that he doesn't understand every word that you're saying and that you're cruelty could have a severe pyschological ... Jen - Oh come on, give me a break. Chloe - You called me a whore in front of him. Jen - That is not what I called you. Chloe - Daniel loves his little boy more than anything in the world; more than himself, more than you so as nice as it's been to have this little chat with you, I'm not going to keep you any longer. She leaves.

Dan - Did I do what? Kristen - Did you sleep with Chloe?


Segment 5: Vargas looks at Hope and Eric - I don't suppose they take IOU's here. Eric - No. Don't worry. This is on the big guy upstairs. Hope - Thank you Father Eric. Eric - You're welcome. If you'll excuse me for a minute. He leaves the table. Vargas - And I want to thank you too for all your help so far. Hope - I'm happy to do it. I believe people can change if given the right opportunity and the right support and a second chance. Vargas - I'd like to think so. Hope - My cousin, Nick Fallon, just recently got out of prison and I have to say he's really gotten his life back on track. Vargas - Good for him. Hope - I believe the two of you were at Statesville at the same time. Did you happen to know him? Eric tells Gabi he hears congratulations are in order. Gabi - Thank you. You can understand why we didn't have a church ceremony this time around. I know I said it before but I want to say I'm really, really sorry about how things turned out. I should have been upfront with you; with everybody. Eric - I think it was a tough situation for everyone involved. He picks up a gift bag. I have something here for you and Nick. It's a wedding present. I was going to leave it with my grandmother but seeing as you're here and all ... please open it. It's a bottle of wine. Eric - Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine in the spirit of celebration. I think there's a message in there that with love, faith, you can turn a very bad situation into something wonderful, something that you and Nick and Will have done with this baby. And I know that a bottle of a wine isn't the most appropriate gift for a pregnant woman ... Gabi - It's perfect. You know what they say, wine gets better with age. Eric - You can save it for after the baby is born. Gabi comes out from behind the bar and hugs him. Thank you so much. This means so much to me but you know what, your forgiveness means more than anything. Vargas - Nick Fallon. The name sounds familiar. Young, skinny kid, right? Is he part of the Prison Release program too? Hope - No, he's not. Eric returns. I think that Nick and Gabi are going to be very happy together. Eric tells Vargas that Gabi is Nick's wife. They got married today. Vargas - Lucky guy. Eric - What do you say we all head back to the church and see if the heat has been fixed. Vargas looks over at Gabi before leaving.

John - Oh come on kid, say something, anything. Scream, curse, take a shot at me if it makes you feel better. Just give me something. Brady - I am marrying Kristen. He leaves.

Chloe returns to find Nicole sitting there eating a banana. Nicole - Well you're in a good mood. What's got you in such a high note?

Jen lets herself into the cabin.

Dan - Where did you hear that I slept with Chloe? Kristen - From Jennifer. Dan - No, what! That doesn't make sense because that never happened. Kristen - That's certainly not the impression Jennifer has. She went to your room last night. Guess who opened the door. Chloe. And guess where you were. In bed, passed out, half naked. Dan - That never happened. Kristen - That's what Chloe told Jennifer, that it never happened. She came here after to tell Jennifer that she hoped she didn't give her the wrong impression ... she doesn't want there to be any misunderstandings ... Dan - That's what Chloe told her? Kristen - Yes. Dan - OMG, OMG. He hugs Kristen. Thank you. He takes off.


Segment 6: Chloe tells Parker that grandma is going to take him for his nap. Nancy - Are you sure you don't want me to stick around. She's in kind of a mood. Chloe - She's always in a mood, trust me, I'll be fine. Grandma takes Parker for his nap. Chloe - So what's up Nicole? Nicole - I wanted to talk to you about your application for the music board at the church that has been reviewed and rejected. She dumps out the application that has been shredded. Sorry. Chloe - Don't be, no big deal. Nicole - I figured you could handle it. If anyone can handle rejection ... Chloe - Speaking of rejection, shouldn't you leave now. Nicole - Daniel might be okay with you shacking up here with Parker and your mom but I'll be damned if you're going to use Eric and the church to further your sinful agenda. She leaves. Nancy returns - What's all that? Chloe - Confetti. We're going to celebrate. Nancy - That Nicole left? Chloe - No, that Daniel and Jennifer and finally over.

Jen recalls the last time she was at the cabin when Daniel had to do surgery on her. Everything was so right. How did it go so wrong? She heads outside.

Eric and Vargas return to the rectory. Eric didn't think it was possible but it's even hotter in here. Looks like someone tried to take a crack at it while we were out. Vargas - They weren't too successful, were they? Eric is going to ask Father Matt if it was him or if he brought someone in from the outside. Vargas looks around - I always thought it was the guys downstairs that had the heating problem. He removes his shirt and starts working on the radiator.

Gabi comes upstairs. Nick asks what's in the bag. A wedding present from Father Eric. Nick - Wine? Gabi - He said it was one of his favourites. I told him we'd open it after the baby is born and share it with Will. Nick - With Will? Why? Gabi - Well because for the first time in a really long time I feel that things are going to be okay and the three of us are going to raise the baby together. Once Arianna is here then I want to make a toast with my husband and my baby's father. Nick - No. Gabi - No, what? Nick - Will can't be a part of that. Gabi - What are you talking about? Nick - Just leave it alone okay? Gabi - No, I'm not going to leave it alone. That's it. What is it about Will that you're not telling me?


Segment 7: Nicole returns to the rectory and fans herself with a file folder. She removes her top blouse - she's just wearing her tank top. A hot sweaty Vargas stands up and startles her. Vargas - Hello.

Gabi - I really need you to explain to me why you're acting like this. We both know perfectly well that Will is going to be a part of our little girl's life. Nick - No, he's not. Gabi - What are you saying? Nick - He's not going to be part of this little girl's life because he agreed. He signed away his parental rights. In the eyes of the law Will is no longer the father of your child.

Kristen returns home and finds Brady pouring the sparkling cider. Before they drink he says hold on. Something is wrong here. He takes the glasses and sets them down. We're missing something. He holds up an engagement ring and slips it on her finger. Kristen - You're making all my dreams come true. Kisses.

Nancy - Daniel and Jennifer are over for good. I don't understand. Did you come up with a plan? Chloe - Not yet but I just ran into little miss blondie herself in the square. Let me tell you Mom, she's biting the dust. Nancy - She's leaving for good? Chloe - If only. Nancy - I don't understand. Chloe - All I know is that Daniel's getting on a plane and she's getting on a boat so I can take comfort in the fact that tonight Daniel and Jennifer will be thousands of miles apart.

Dan arrives at the cabin calling out her name. He looks around the cabin and turns to leave. As he opens the door to go out Jen is opening it to come in.
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Honeybees
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blueskies
Mar 20 2013, 11:19 PM
so does anyone know if Vargas is his first name or his last name? Or is just "Vargas" like "Cher"? I mean, I thought it was his first name, but then Eric at one point referred to him as "Mr. Vargas". Granted it could still be his first name, but I only thought kindergarten teachers were referred to as Mr/Mrs FirstName. :shrug:
I just want one seen where Vargas complains that he's nervous because he switched to Sanka. Thank would make my day.
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Bright Eyes
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Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:50 AM
Bright Eyes
Mar 21 2013, 12:31 AM
Matt
Mar 21 2013, 12:30 AM
I know who Vargas reminds me of! Matt Battaglia! (ex-J.L. King)
Does mean that Kristian Alfonso is going to get him fired?
I thought it was Jeff Griggs (ex-Jude St. Clair) that she got fired because of his hardcore gay porn past or something or other. I never heard about Battaglia getting fired because of KA.
Word. I got those two confused.
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nightfan


Matt
Mar 20 2013, 12:25 PM
Jennifer to Chloe: "You are a duplicitous little tramp."
It's true enough, but I can't stand Jennifer saying it. She's so holier-than-thou. I wish Cameron wouldn't have interrupted Ann making mincemeat of Abby on the prior episode.

Of some comfort is my belief that the writers truly know how awful Jennifer is and that's why they have SO many characters mocking her, against her. Think about it. Jennifer has Maggie (it's expected for her daughter and boyfriend to prop her) but her foes are Chloe, Ann, Nancy... they're ganging up on her too, it's not always one at a time.

They know Jennifer sucks!
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nightfan


Matt
Mar 20 2013, 12:35 PM
I can't put my finger on it, but the actor playing Vargas reminds me of someone, but for the life of me I can't figure out who.
Has he acted in anything else? he does look very familiar!
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nightfan


DesignatedShelley
Mar 20 2013, 03:23 PM
I really wish soap rivalries with female characters didn't have to come with all this slut shaming, it legitimately makes me very uncomfortable watching because I don't think the writers realize how misogynistic it really actually is to call a woman a slut or a whore as an insult simply because you don't like her. Of all the things wrong with this show, it's stuff like this that makes me unable to watch, because on the one hand Days wants you to think they're sooo open-minded and progressive because, look, they ship WilSon! But they'll keep thinking it's okay to slut-shame women with no narrative acknowledgement that it is sexist (because it is).
I give the writers a pass because it's so common. Seriously, I see it all the time. And the women don't think like that: that it's misogynistic or wrong. So why should the Days characters? It's not slut-shaming in their eyes; it's not sexist. It's just calling someone a name. I don't think it would be in character for someone (other than Marlena, maybe) to take exception to this insult.
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DesignatedShelley
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nightfan
Mar 21 2013, 09:07 PM
I give the writers a pass because it's so common. Seriously, I see it all the time. And the women don't think like that: that it's misogynistic or wrong. So why should the Days characters? It's not slut-shaming in their eyes; it's not sexist. It's just calling someone a name. I don't think it would be in character for someone (other than Marlena, maybe) to take exception to this insult.
For me it being common makes it worse, not better. I see it all the time too, that's precisely why it bugs me. It's so common and accepted. Complacency is a huge problem, in my view. What women do you refer to when you say "the women don't think like that"? Because I'm an actual woman, honest I am, and I think it is sexist. Lots of women think like that. A lot of my friends hate being called sluts for sleeping around or dressing the way they dress. Again, I don't see why calling someone a slut is "just" name-calling while calling someone a fag is so much worse:
Quote:
 
Research suggests that for girls, "slut" and its derivatives are among the most common and most feared of possible pejoratives hurled in the high-school social arena, equivalent in regulatory power to the "fag" label for boys. Both "slut" and "fag" tell young people that they are doing their gender "wrong" and that they'd better get in line or suffer the consequences. The virulence of "slut," and the reduction in a girl's cultural capital that accompanies being called a "slut," make clear to all that there is an association between a woman's worth as a human being and her sexual behavior. Abusive naming practices reveal not only the in-group/out-group dynamics (who's hot, who's not) but the cultural value system that situates the named positions within the social hierarchy. In other words, calling a girl a "slut" not only marks her as "undesirable" but simultaneously restates that sexually active women are unwelcome pariahs. Our culture still marks a woman who is sexually active outside heterosexual marriage (or perceived to be) as a person of little value.

I think the fact that people don't realize that they are comparably bad is what's so wrong. That's the exact opposite reason of it deserving to get a pass, in my opinion. The more widespread and accepted it is, the more internalized and entrenched the sexism is, and the longer and harder it'll be to change it, and that's all the more reason to work on it. If someone says "OMG your outfit is so gay" they may not be aware that it's wrong, but it's still wrong, man. They're just ignorant.

But I'm not going to sit here and give an (even more) extended lecture on the politics of gendered insults, anyone can google slut shaming and the history of it and why women do it too and why calling men "sluts" doesn't come with the same baggage and all of that jazz. I'll say this: back in the day young Jennifer would've qualified as a feminist. She called out men for being macho and chauvinist, she was amused/appalled by Jack trying to lecture her on feminism. Believe it or not the 1990s started out as a much more forward thinking time than what came after it, especially by the time the 00's rolled around television regressed on the feminism front in a few ways.

But most especially I am extremely disappointed to hear it from Abby. She's basically my demo, a well educated 20-something young middle class woman. Plenty of young women in my age and socioeconomic bracket and education level are aware enough of gender politics to be above it. Some say it, but some don't, and those of us who refrain are certainly not golden egg laying geese or unicorns, never to be spotted by mortal sight. I honestly found it shocking that Abby would go around calling such and such a whore or a slut, she grew up in the 21st century (third wave feminism and sex positivity are like 20 year old movements by now!) and was characterized as a somewhat worldly and sophisticated young woman, and with parents like hers I don't think that education would have been taken lightly, for all that she's attending dinky little Salem U now.

And FWIW I recall an episode recently of some of the Days women discussing the sexual politics of "The Scarlet Letter". Random-ass as it was, the writers are clearly capable of giving these women awareness of gender politics that, yes, actual real life women have.
Edited by DesignatedShelley, Mar 22 2013, 12:03 AM.
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nightfan


DesignatedShelley
Mar 21 2013, 11:16 PM
nightfan
Mar 21 2013, 09:07 PM
I give the writers a pass because it's so common. Seriously, I see it all the time. And the women don't think like that: that it's misogynistic or wrong. So why should the Days characters? It's not slut-shaming in their eyes; it's not sexist. It's just calling someone a name. I don't think it would be in character for someone (other than Marlena, maybe) to take exception to this insult.
For me it being common makes it worse, not better. I see it all the time too, that's precisely why it bugs me. It's so common and accepted. Complacency is a huge problem, in my view. What women do you refer to when you say "the women don't think like that"? Because I'm an actual woman, honest I am, and I think it is sexist. Lots of women think like that. A lot of my friends hate being called sluts for sleeping around or dressing the way they dress. Again, I don't see why calling someone a slut is "just" name-calling while calling someone a fag is so much worse:
Quote:
 
Research suggests that for girls, "slut" and its derivatives are among the most common and most feared of possible pejoratives hurled in the high-school social arena, equivalent in regulatory power to the "fag" label for boys. Both "slut" and "fag" tell young people that they are doing their gender "wrong" and that they'd better get in line or suffer the consequences. The virulence of "slut," and the reduction in a girl's cultural capital that accompanies being called a "slut," make clear to all that there is an association between a woman's worth as a human being and her sexual behavior. Abusive naming practices reveal not only the in-group/out-group dynamics (who's hot, who's not) but the cultural value system that situates the named positions within the social hierarchy. In other words, calling a girl a "slut" not only marks her as "undesirable" but simultaneously restates that sexually active women are unwelcome pariahs. Our culture still marks a woman who is sexually active outside heterosexual marriage (or perceived to be) as a person of little value.

I think the fact that people don't realize that they are comparably bad is what's so wrong. That's the exact opposite reason of it deserving to get a pass, in my opinion. The more widespread and accepted it is, the more internalized and entrenched the sexism is, and the longer and harder it'll be to change it, and that's all the more reason to work on it. If someone says "OMG your outfit is so gay" they may not be aware that it's wrong, but it's still wrong, man. They're just ignorant.

But I'm not going to sit here and give an (even more) extended lecture on the politics of gendered insults, anyone can google slut shaming and the history of it and why women do it too and why calling men "sluts" doesn't come with the same baggage and all of that jazz. I'll say this: back in the day young Jennifer would've qualified as a feminist. She called out men for being macho and chauvinist, she was amused/appalled by Jack trying to lecture her on feminism. Believe it or not the 1990s started out as a much more forward thinking time than what came after it, especially by the time the 00's rolled around television regressed on the feminism front in a few ways.

But most especially I am extremely disappointed to hear it from Abby. She's basically my demo, a well educated 20-something young middle class woman. Plenty of young women in my age and socioeconomic bracket and education level are aware enough of gender politics to be above it. Some say it, but some don't, and those of us who refrain are certainly not golden egg laying geese or unicorns, never to be spotted by mortal sight. I honestly found it shocking that Abby would go around calling such and such a whore or a slut, she grew up in the 21st century and was characterized as a somewhat worldly and sophisticated young woman, and with parents like hers I don't think that education would have been taken lightly, for all that she's attending dinky little Salem U now.

And FWIW I recall an episode recently of some of the Days women discussing the sexual politics of "The Scarlet Letter". Random-ass as it was, the writers are clearly capable of giving these women awareness of gender politics that, yes, actual real life women have.
Sorry, i mistyped. A number of women don't think like that is what I meant. Not a majority of women or all women, or anything like that. It depends on the crowd, I guess. I know many highly educated women but think just a handful of them would be outraged by the insult because I hear the majority of these women, from good families and means, using these terms and thinking nothing of it. It's a term said in passion without thought, usually.

Do I excuse the term or their using it? No. But there's another interesting dynamic here: Should this soap opera really shape the message or contaminate the writing with an agenda? I would question that.
Think of how people on this very message board roll their eyes when Sonny gives a sermon about homophobia that pretty much no one, in real life, would ever say to his boyfriend who already believes the same thing (obviously).

If female characters suddenly react differently from how they have in the past, and all of a sudden dissect and parse everything, it would be strange.

Also, about Abby. I agree that she flew off the handle. It shocked me, too, that she'd use that kind of language. But education may not hold a candle to pop culture's influence. I can recall Rachel on Friends calling someone a slut. It happens all the time across movies and TV. Abby may have been taught right, but that doesn't mean she's not susceptible to terms - as we all are - in passionate moments.

Sometimes, people do say the worst thing imaginable in moments of passion. And it's not the show's responsibility, in my opinion, to clean that up. Because that takes the realism from it and immediately deflates our ability to suspend disbelief and go with the scene. (Like those WilSon scenes.)
That's why I suggested characters who we'd reasonably believe would be more mature and avoid doing this should and those who have been saying these things, well, live and let live. Good writers don't inject their personal values into characters unless they feel it's in character.

I think your hope that the world weren't so judgmental or sexist comes from a good place and is admirable, but doing so with movie and TV scripts presents the same disastrous effect as when schools use textbooks that eliminate history that is racist or sexist and, in effect, present a false, white picket fence or otherwise artificial reality where things are as they should be.

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nightfan


^ Want to add something: Sometimes, I think soaps, particularly Days, do things just to get on The Soup or YouTube compilations. So that's another reason why I take much of what I see with a grain of salt. How else can I justify why the show would seriously keep the DiMera Mansion so hideous a color? What is that desert, drab paint on the wall? Why do they overpopulate the mansion with furniture? Less is more! And we all hear about the makeup and hair problems viewers have with the characters.
And many other production values. Sometimes, I think aspects are there for parody.
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DesignatedShelley
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nightfan
Mar 22 2013, 12:01 AM
Do I excuse the term or their using it? No. But there's another interesting dynamic here: Should this soap opera really shape the message or contaminate the writing with an agenda? I would question that.
Think of how people on this very message board roll their eyes when Sonny gives a sermon about homophobia that pretty much no one, in real life, would ever say to his boyfriend who already believes the same thing (obviously).

If female characters suddenly react differently from how they have in the past, and all of a sudden dissect and parse everything, it would be strange.

I think your hope that the world weren't so judgmental or sexist comes from a good place and is admirable, but doing so with movie and TV scripts presents the same disastrous effect as when schools use textbooks that eliminate history that is racist or sexist and, in effect, present a false, white picket fence or otherwise artificial reality where things are as they should be.

I snipped your post to respond to just the few things:

- "Agendas" have been part of soaps for a long time, a lot of issues like abortion and interracial marriage and whatnot made their first television appearances on soaps. A heavy handed sermon from Sonny may not go over well, but the existence of his relationship with Will, on screen, that's meant a lot to people. Clearly positive depictions of things on television can have positive effects on people.

- To me, Jennifer now calling so and such a slut and a whore IS her reacting differently from how they have in the past. In the past, she was a total bleeding heart and quite easily a feminist. It is NOW that she has been changed.

- In my opinion pop culture inevitably shapes reality, it's naive to think that reality creates pop culture and that there is no feedback loop in the other direction. And again, like I said twice before, I am not saying necessarily to get rid of women using words like "slut", I am saying either treat it seriously as the serious negative thing it is, or get rid of it and find another way to get cheap soapy goodness. I happen to think just getting rid of most of it would be easier.

ETA: It's honestly odd to me that we're defending the inclusion of sexist slurs in the name of realism on a show that not only would NOT treat racial or homophobic slurs the same way, but is so far from realistic on many other fronts. Why cherry pick in favor of slutshaming? Why don't we have more characters including major protagonists saying "That's so gay"? It's definitely realistic. Would it make Days a better show? A less disastrous show? Teenage girls have committed suicide because of slutshaming, it's not like it's not a serious issue.
Edited by DesignatedShelley, Mar 22 2013, 08:33 AM.
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appleblossom


I'm sort of old school. If you want to be respected as a lady or even a gentleman, you need to act and dress like you want that respect. Although I also believe if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut too. BTW, I really like the new design of the site.
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Honeybees
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appleblossom
Mar 22 2013, 02:00 PM
I'm sort of old school. If you want to be respected as a lady or even a gentleman, you need to act and dress like you want that respect. Although I also believe if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut too. BTW, I really like the new design of the site.
Would this apply to rape victims? People who drink or dress in short skirts shouldn't expect to have their bodies respected? Because the one word that keeps running through my mind in the context of this conversation is Steubenville.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

I'm behind, but it sure felt like another dimension when Nicole was telling Chloe she couldn't use the church for her agenda. Where's my Nicole?
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

You know, in regards to the word "slut": Just because of lot of "educated women" say it, doesn't mean it's appropriate. I deem it as a lack of creativity. Sorry. That's my feeling. If you're an "educated woman", you should be able to express yourself better, in a more clever fashion. It's sad that so many words have been used so much that people are immune to it. Or the vitriol the words exhibit. Personally, I would take it as an affront to be called that. Warranted or not. On a school playground, that would be deemed bullying.
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