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Spoilers for the week of April 8th; *Updated 4/1*
Topic Started: Mar 27 2013, 12:28 PM (40,373 Views)
SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:58 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:18 PM
I don't see where EJami or the DiMeras are focused on any more than any other supporting characters in the Wabi baby story. They are shown on screen less than most (certainly less than Kate/Rafe). Stefano even less than that.

I agree Lucas should have a larger role in this. And as Tom said, it's a shame they've not used Marlena as a sounding board for Will, at all. But overall I think they've done a good job of making this an umbrella story that focuses primarily (at the moment) on the drama of Nick's homophobia and the impact it's having on Will and Sonny. Everyone else is a side player to that.
If this is an umbrella story then umbrella story has really changed their meaning. Only ej, sami, nick and will are involved in this story. Sure we have seen other characters dip in and out bu those characters like Lucas, Sonny and now Kate, have been used as plot pieces not legitimate roads leading from a head story.

Lucas and Sami's custody battle help put them on the map. This story will not put Will and Gabi on the map. Or Will and Sonny. Because its about EJ and Sami taking on Nick. That's why the Dimeras are involved and Will's family is relegated to being plot points and passerbys.

And that's why this story rarely makes sense. I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Only EJ, Sami, Nick and Will are involved? That's just not accurate.

Gabi is clearly involved. And because of her Rafe is certainly involved. Kate has been involved nearly from the beginning - and much more so now due to her relationship with Rafe. We've also seen Lucas, Hope, Maggie and now Stefano to a lesser extent.

Sami's role has been to be used as the catalyst for Nick's powerplay. EJ has simply been there in a supporting role for Sami first, Will second.

As much as I agree that Lucas has been overlooked I just can't wrap my head around the claims that this story has been hijacked by EJami. We'd be seeing a whole lot more of them if that were the case.
Once again, I say seeing character in a storyline does not mean they are involved in the storyline. For instance, Rafe is trotted out when they need to show the split between him and Sami. I think TPTB thinks this reinforces Ej and Sami but it doesn't. It just shows that a)Safe has had no closure. b) the reason they broke up is kind of stupid. Its a lack of real communication.

But Rafe does not add a layer to this story. He has no effect on it. The way he and others including Gabi are used they can go unseen for weeks and the story continues. They are not involved in this story. And tgey really are not involved in a story stemming from the baby story. You could say Rafe sleeping with Kate. But that's not a storyline.
I disagree that Rafe is only used to show the split with Sami. They clearly defined the 'teams' with the baby reveal at the wedding - Sami being Team Will and Rafe being Team Gabi. Most of Rafe's purpose in the story since that time is to support Gabi and to occasionally question Nick's actions. Kate and Rafe have discussed the fact that they are on opposite sides of the baby drama - even argued based on Kate's misunderstanding that Rafe knew Will had signed over his rights. Other than a few scenes there has been little interaction between Rafe and Sami. When they have interacted it's been to drive home the point that Rafe sees Sami as a problem for Gabi and the baby...thus continuing to establish which side of the debate each character is on.

As to adding layers to the story I definitely think Rate has added an unexpected and so far, interesting layer. And I'm thrilled to see Lauren Koslow getting more story.

You're probably right that our definitions of an umbrella story differ. I believe the best ones utilize a number of characters to varying degrees throughout the duration of the story. While some may be featured more prominently than others what makes it intersting and keeps it fresh is the flow of different characters interacting for a variety of reasons. Unlike the Sydnapping story which had the potential to involve a lot more key characters but spent 95 percent of the time on the same few core people this story seems to be doing a better job of spreading out and touching nearly everyone at one point or another.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:18 PM
I don't see where EJami or the DiMeras are focused on any more than any other supporting characters in the Wabi baby story. They are shown on screen less than most (certainly less than Kate/Rafe). Stefano even less than that.

I agree Lucas should have a larger role in this. And as Tom said, it's a shame they've not used Marlena as a sounding board for Will, at all. But overall I think they've done a good job of making this an umbrella story that focuses primarily (at the moment) on the drama of Nick's homophobia and the impact it's having on Will and Sonny. Everyone else is a side player to that.
If this is an umbrella story then umbrella story has really changed their meaning. Only ej, sami, nick and will are involved in this story. Sure we have seen other characters dip in and out bu those characters like Lucas, Sonny and now Kate, have been used as plot pieces not legitimate roads leading from a head story.

Lucas and Sami's custody battle help put them on the map. This story will not put Will and Gabi on the map. Or Will and Sonny. Because its about EJ and Sami taking on Nick. That's why the Dimeras are involved and Will's family is relegated to being plot points and passerbys.

And that's why this story rarely makes sense. I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Only EJ, Sami, Nick and Will are involved? That's just not accurate.

Gabi is clearly involved. And because of her Rafe is certainly involved. Kate has been involved nearly from the beginning - and much more so now due to her relationship with Rafe. We've also seen Lucas, Hope, Maggie and now Stefano to a lesser extent.

Sami's role has been to be used as the catalyst for Nick's powerplay. EJ has simply been there in a supporting role for Sami first, Will second.

As much as I agree that Lucas has been overlooked I just can't wrap my head around the claims that this story has been hijacked by EJami. We'd be seeing a whole lot more of them if that were the case.
I wouldn't say it's hijacked by Ejami (YET) but I will definitely say that it seems forced to include Ejami in a place that Lumi would clearly be in. It plays to everything Lucas and Sami represented for years that THEY would be the ones to actually try to get Will out of the dilemma he's in....without bringing Stefano into the fold. At the very least, try to get Lumi to try, try to get Kate to try, give Victor a chance to do his thing too, give Marlena a try. IF all those would have failed (and I know that Lumi attempted with the evidence but they historically don't give up as easily when it comes to their child), then it might have played out better than to get Stefano involved from the get go. Let's face it, the ONLY reason they are going to Stefano is not because he's had success getting anything done for the 'greater good of anyone' it's as a way to get Ejami united in this story. It's going to be all about Ejami vs Nick....and that is not the way this should have played out at all. Ej could have helped but the focus should be on Will doing something himself, trying at the very least multiple times and if he fails then we can go to plan B, C, D, and E....problem is that Will isn't even trying anything on his own, he isn't failing at an attempt and he's going straight to plan Z, why Stefano of all people? Because they need to include EJami, and that is the most logical way to do it.
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Partnersincrime
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i think stefano lost his balls years ago 90% of times since 2007 for second i thought he might get them in 2012 and than they kill him off

stefano most of times wanted ej and sami as couple his problem was ej had no pride going after sami That on of the reasons why some people does not think stefano can be use to try to keep ej and sami apart
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LucasHortonFan
Please write 4 Bryan Dattilo, Give him a love interest.

I am so over Ej and Sami. Any mention of them now makes me wanna gag and throw up. Lucas is Will's father. He should be the one Will turns to for help, not the mob monster.
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The Room Stops
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Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:46 PM
samwel
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
EJ is Lucas, two days ago EJ was Rafe, yeah I get it, EJ is in the spot those two want. :lol:

Anywhoooo they are doing a pretty good job of making this baby sl an umbrella sl and in no shape or form is EJAMI taking the spotlight and as for EJAMI's own sl, I am sure it is coming with Stefano gunning for them soon enough (can't wait for that)
Stefano, the man who wanted to take over the world and destroy an entire family, will be Stephano-- (phony ass Stefano) gumpy but loving grandfather who will act like Kate.

I know Ejami fans are hoping Stephano will make Ej and Sami the next John and Marlena but it will not happen. For so so so many reasons. Not even Stephano can bring legitimacy to them or make them a power couple. He can speak truth to it. But Days has their perfect next generation power couple in Will and Sonny. Every other couple is a waste. Even against Stephano, Ej and Sami have no root value.
I absolutely agree Will will (ha!) take over his grandma's "legacy" pairing part, but I hope it's not Sonny. I love the idea of a Brady/Horton/Evans and a Kiriakis/Johnson, but I find them boring. If they can take them away from Sami's orbit of suck and give them some personality on their own... by all means.

If they were to say raise the baby on their own, with help from Marlena, John, Adrienne, Justin, even Rafe and Kate. Like a multi-generational family thing, but the two of them making their own little universe with their families, I'd be up for that (of course, interacting with others). I just find them boring now that they're basically just there so Sami can be all Sami.
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JamaicanBeauty7
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I am READY!!

SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 01:28 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:58 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Only EJ, Sami, Nick and Will are involved? That's just not accurate.

Gabi is clearly involved. And because of her Rafe is certainly involved. Kate has been involved nearly from the beginning - and much more so now due to her relationship with Rafe. We've also seen Lucas, Hope, Maggie and now Stefano to a lesser extent.

Sami's role has been to be used as the catalyst for Nick's powerplay. EJ has simply been there in a supporting role for Sami first, Will second.

As much as I agree that Lucas has been overlooked I just can't wrap my head around the claims that this story has been hijacked by EJami. We'd be seeing a whole lot more of them if that were the case.
Once again, I say seeing character in a storyline does not mean they are involved in the storyline. For instance, Rafe is trotted out when they need to show the split between him and Sami. I think TPTB thinks this reinforces Ej and Sami but it doesn't. It just shows that a)Safe has had no closure. b) the reason they broke up is kind of stupid. Its a lack of real communication.

But Rafe does not add a layer to this story. He has no effect on it. The way he and others including Gabi are used they can go unseen for weeks and the story continues. They are not involved in this story. And tgey really are not involved in a story stemming from the baby story. You could say Rafe sleeping with Kate. But that's not a storyline.
I disagree that Rafe is only used to show the split with Sami. They clearly defined the 'teams' with the baby reveal at the wedding - Sami being Team Will and Rafe being Team Gabi. Most of Rafe's purpose in the story since that time is to support Gabi and to occasionally question Nick's actions. Kate and Rafe have discussed the fact that they are on opposite sides of the baby drama - even argued based on Kate's misunderstanding that Rafe knew Will had signed over his rights. Other than a few scenes there has been little interaction between Rafe and Sami. When they have interacted it's been to drive home the point that Rafe sees Sami as a problem for Gabi and the baby...thus continuing to establish which side of the debate each character is on.

As to adding layers to the story I definitely think Rate has added an unexpected and so far, interesting layer. And I'm thrilled to see Lauren Koslow getting more story.

You're probably right that our definitions of an umbrella story differ. I believe the best ones utilize a number of characters to varying degrees throughout the duration of the story. While some may be featured more prominently than others what makes it intersting and keeps it fresh is the flow of different characters interacting for a variety of reasons. Unlike the Sydnapping story which had the potential to involve a lot more key characters but spent 95 percent of the time on the same few core people this story seems to be doing a better job of spreading out and touching nearly everyone at one point or another.
ICAM. The writers are certainly using this s/l to get as many players involved as possible. Even though Lucas and Marlena are not in it as much as I'd like, that seems to be the only flaw here. They are doing a great job of using this s/l as a catalyst for sub plots for each character associated with it and spreading out screentime as evenly as possible. It's the best s/l this show has right now by a mile.
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Hamilton
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Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:58 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:47 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
SocRMum1
Apr 2 2013, 12:18 PM
I don't see where EJami or the DiMeras are focused on any more than any other supporting characters in the Wabi baby story. They are shown on screen less than most (certainly less than Kate/Rafe). Stefano even less than that.

I agree Lucas should have a larger role in this. And as Tom said, it's a shame they've not used Marlena as a sounding board for Will, at all. But overall I think they've done a good job of making this an umbrella story that focuses primarily (at the moment) on the drama of Nick's homophobia and the impact it's having on Will and Sonny. Everyone else is a side player to that.
If this is an umbrella story then umbrella story has really changed their meaning. Only ej, sami, nick and will are involved in this story. Sure we have seen other characters dip in and out bu those characters like Lucas, Sonny and now Kate, have been used as plot pieces not legitimate roads leading from a head story.

Lucas and Sami's custody battle help put them on the map. This story will not put Will and Gabi on the map. Or Will and Sonny. Because its about EJ and Sami taking on Nick. That's why the Dimeras are involved and Will's family is relegated to being plot points and passerbys.

And that's why this story rarely makes sense. I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Only EJ, Sami, Nick and Will are involved? That's just not accurate.

Gabi is clearly involved. And because of her Rafe is certainly involved. Kate has been involved nearly from the beginning - and much more so now due to her relationship with Rafe. We've also seen Lucas, Hope, Maggie and now Stefano to a lesser extent.

Sami's role has been to be used as the catalyst for Nick's powerplay. EJ has simply been there in a supporting role for Sami first, Will second.

As much as I agree that Lucas has been overlooked I just can't wrap my head around the claims that this story has been hijacked by EJami. We'd be seeing a whole lot more of them if that were the case.
Once again, I say seeing character in a storyline does not mean they are involved in the storyline. For instance, Rafe is trotted out when they need to show the split between him and Sami. I think TPTB thinks this reinforces Ej and Sami but it doesn't. It just shows that a)Safe has had no closure. b) the reason they broke up is kind of stupid. Its a lack of real communication.

But Rafe does not add a layer to this story. He has no effect on it. The way he and others including Gabi are used they can go unseen for weeks and the story continues. They are not involved in this story. And tgey really are not involved in a story stemming from the baby story. You could say Rafe sleeping with Kate. But that's not a storyline.
Rafe is suppose to be a top FBI agent. We've seen him have instinct and tenaciousness. Where is any of that now? Rafe has been demoted to a clueless cop with a perpetual hard on for Kate.

You're right in that he doesn't add a layer to this story. He should have been wise to Nick long before now instead of just arrogantly blaming Sami for all the trouble. It's stupid and a huge hit on his character imo.
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Will&Sonny


Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Are we watching the same show? The one where Will has been staring longingly at that sonogram image of his daughter on an almost weekly basis? The one where Will keeps seeing little girls who remind him of his daughter? The one where Will keeps fretting about what he's going to do when his daughter is born and he's forced to stand on the sidelines and watch as a homophobic jerk raises her and poisons her mind with hateful filth? The one where Will has been almost solely focused on his daughter for months, and especially since the moment that he reunited with Sonny (who was his only other focus in recent months)?

Will feels (or felt, until a few days ago) defeated, yes. He felt like he was going to have to somehow learn to live with something that would be impossible to live with, because he felt like Nick was holding all of the cards (which is stupid, because Nick shouldn't be winning this often, but I've already complained about that). But I can't fathom how anyone could possibly equate that with Will not wanting to be in his daughter's life -- or not truly caring about his family, for that matter, since his family was the only reason that he allowed Nick to blackmail him in the first place. Will has repeatedly stressed that if he were the only one who would suffer the consequences, he wouldn't hesitate to accept responsibility for his crime so that Nick would not have any leverage to use against him. Will's daughter would then be able to visit him in jail, at the very least, and Will would be able to look forward to the future, knowing that he would eventually be released from jail and free to spend the rest of his life with his daughter. But Will can't do that, because Nick isn't just threatening to expose Will's secret -- he's threatening to expose Lucas, Roman, and Hope's secrets, as well. (As an aside, I believe that, while Nick's homophobia is absolutely the primary reason that Nick is obsessed with getting Will out of Will's daughter's life, Nick is also jealous of the fact that Roman and Hope protected Will, but were never willing to protect Nick [ignoring the fact that Nick, unlike Will, was legally an adult when he committed his crimes, since Nick's a psycho who would never acknowledge key details like that -- details that would invalidate his entire argument], so he's willing to ruin their lives just to spite them. That's just speculation on my part at this point, but it'd be interesting to see the writers eventually address that, IMO.)

Personally, I don't believe that Nick truly loves the baby, nor do I believe that Nick truly loves Gabi. Nick's just obsessed with possessing both of them and preventing two gay men from being involved in a child's life. But I absolutely believe that Will loves his daughter.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 01:56 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Are we watching the same show? The one where Will has been staring longingly at that sonogram image of his daughter on an almost weekly basis? The one where Will keeps seeing little girls who remind him of his daughter? The one where Will keeps fretting about what he's going to do when his daughter is born and he's forced to stand on the sidelines and watch as a homophobic jerk raises her and poisons her mind with hateful filth? The one where Will has been almost solely focused on his daughter for months, and especially since the moment that he reunited with Sonny (who was his only other focus in recent months)?

Will feels (or felt, until a few days ago) defeated, yes. He felt like he was going to have to somehow learn to live with something that would be impossible to live with, because he felt like Nick was holding all of the cards (which is stupid, because Nick shouldn't be winning this often, but I've already complained about that). But I can't fathom how anyone could possibly equate that with Will not wanting to be in his daughter's life -- or not truly caring about his family, for that matter, since his family was the only reason that he allowed Nick to blackmail him in the first place. Will has repeatedly stressed that if he were the only one who would suffer the consequences, he wouldn't hesitate to accept responsibility for his crime so that Nick would not have any leverage to use against him. Will's daughter would then be able to visit him in jail, at the very least, and Will would be able to look forward to the future, knowing that he would eventually be released from jail and free to spend the rest of his life with his daughter. But Will can't do that, because Nick isn't just threatening to expose Will's secret -- he's threatening to expose Lucas, Roman, and Hope's secrets, as well. (As an aside, I believe that, while Nick's homophobia is absolutely the primary reason that Nick is obsessed with getting Will out of Will's daughter's life, Nick is also jealous of the fact that Roman and Hope protected Will, but were never willing to protect Nick [ignoring the fact that Nick, unlike Will, was legally an adult when he committed his crimes, since Nick's a psycho who would never acknowledge key details like that -- details that would invalidate his entire argument], so he's willing to ruin their lives just to spite them. That's just speculation on my part at this point, but it'd be interesting to see the writers eventually address that, IMO.)

Personally, I don't believe that Nick truly loves the baby, nor do I believe that Nick truly loves Gabi. Nick's just obsessed with possessing both of them and preventing two gay men from being involved in a child's life. But I absolutely believe that Will loves his daughter.
I'm sure we are all watching the same show but interpret it differently.....and we both might be right. My biggest issue has always been that Will, NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING to prove to to all of us that he wants to be part of this child's life. He's Sami's kid, he's Lucas' kid...he's Kate's grandson....these aren't people that historically did absolutely nothing when their backs were against the wall. He might want to be part of his kid's life now, but frankly in the beginning he was fine with having his child be raised by another man and I know that Nick was playing it cool back then but the hints were everywhere as to who Nick was, and what his beliefs were.....if it wasn't for Nick calling Sonny the f word then I don't know if Will would have done anything to actually try to turn things around, and even early on he was fine with giving his right away to Nick instead of letting the truth come out because he was afraid to lose Sonny. I don't like what he's doing, (going to Stefano), as he had other, better options but Will needed to act, and I'd argue that it needed to come from HIM earlier....and going to Stefano makes Will weak.....he'll owe him something in return and that likely will lead to him not being part of his daughter's life anyway.
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Partnersincrime
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the little they use lucas is written like nobody to will

probaly one of the reason there was not really after the truth out about gabi

scene of lucas and sami as unit talk to will it help forget that lucas sami and will are family

will right now is written to trust the most ej [will hide from sonny about stefano]

is should have been sonny after what happen on wedding to show will and sonny came stornger and after that one of his parents

i still do not get why chad is not more in the story in the story
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Will&Sonny


LuvingLumi
Apr 2 2013, 02:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 01:56 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Are we watching the same show? The one where Will has been staring longingly at that sonogram image of his daughter on an almost weekly basis? The one where Will keeps seeing little girls who remind him of his daughter? The one where Will keeps fretting about what he's going to do when his daughter is born and he's forced to stand on the sidelines and watch as a homophobic jerk raises her and poisons her mind with hateful filth? The one where Will has been almost solely focused on his daughter for months, and especially since the moment that he reunited with Sonny (who was his only other focus in recent months)?

Will feels (or felt, until a few days ago) defeated, yes. He felt like he was going to have to somehow learn to live with something that would be impossible to live with, because he felt like Nick was holding all of the cards (which is stupid, because Nick shouldn't be winning this often, but I've already complained about that). But I can't fathom how anyone could possibly equate that with Will not wanting to be in his daughter's life -- or not truly caring about his family, for that matter, since his family was the only reason that he allowed Nick to blackmail him in the first place. Will has repeatedly stressed that if he were the only one who would suffer the consequences, he wouldn't hesitate to accept responsibility for his crime so that Nick would not have any leverage to use against him. Will's daughter would then be able to visit him in jail, at the very least, and Will would be able to look forward to the future, knowing that he would eventually be released from jail and free to spend the rest of his life with his daughter. But Will can't do that, because Nick isn't just threatening to expose Will's secret -- he's threatening to expose Lucas, Roman, and Hope's secrets, as well. (As an aside, I believe that, while Nick's homophobia is absolutely the primary reason that Nick is obsessed with getting Will out of Will's daughter's life, Nick is also jealous of the fact that Roman and Hope protected Will, but were never willing to protect Nick [ignoring the fact that Nick, unlike Will, was legally an adult when he committed his crimes, since Nick's a psycho who would never acknowledge key details like that -- details that would invalidate his entire argument], so he's willing to ruin their lives just to spite them. That's just speculation on my part at this point, but it'd be interesting to see the writers eventually address that, IMO.)

Personally, I don't believe that Nick truly loves the baby, nor do I believe that Nick truly loves Gabi. Nick's just obsessed with possessing both of them and preventing two gay men from being involved in a child's life. But I absolutely believe that Will loves his daughter.
I'm sure we are all watching the same show but interpret it differently.....and we both might be right. My biggest issue has always been that Will, NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING to prove to to all of us that he wants to be part of this child's life. He's Sami's kid, he's Lucas' kid...he's Kate's grandson....these aren't people that historically did absolutely nothing when their backs were against the wall. He might want to be part of his kid's life now, but frankly in the beginning he was fine with having his child be raised by another man and I know that Nick was playing it cool back then but the hints were everywhere as to who Nick was, and what his beliefs were.....if it wasn't for Nick calling Sonny the f word then I don't know if Will would have done anything to actually try to turn things around, and even early on he was fine with giving his right away to Nick instead of letting the truth come out because he was afraid to lose Sonny. I don't like what he's doing, (going to Stefano), as he had other, better options but Will needed to act, and I'd argue that it needed to come from HIM earlier....and going to Stefano makes Will weak.....he'll owe him something in return and that likely will lead to him not being part of his daughter's life anyway.
The writers aren't letting Will do anything himself because they're focused on letting Nick win repeatedly so that they can drag the story out for a longer amount of time. I've complained about this several times already -- I completely agree that it's stupid, but I disagree that it equates to Will not loving his daughter or wanting to be in her life.

And I also disagree with the statement that Will was originally willing to give up his daughter simply so that he could be with Sonny. That is not what happened, period. The writers tried to sell that line of crap later, but that doesn't erase all of the scenes where Will clearly explained that he was giving up his child so that she could be raised in a stable environment -- a luxury that Nick and Gabi had convinced Will that Will's daughter would not receive if they tried to co-parent. Will was doing what he thought was best for his daughter, even at the cost of his own feelings -- the very definition of love. And even then, he certainly wasn't "fine" with it -- he was clearly depicted as being a very conflicted person from the very beginning.

I want Will to take charge of the situation just as much as you do, but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon, since the writers have a clear agenda that involves stretching this storyline out for as long as they possibly can, even if that means making it a completely far-fetched storyline in the process (which they are well on their way to doing already). I'm sick of seeing Nick constantly win while Will and the rest of the people on Will's side of the equation constantly lose. But regardless of all of that, I just don't see how anyone can question Will's love for his child at this point. One has nothing to do with the other.
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Marlene


rfsexton
Apr 2 2013, 01:00 PM
Quote:
 
Monday April 8:
Daniel's reunited with Parker but will Chloe's deception last when Daniel stumbles upon Nancy's passport?


Hmmm, maybe she's NOT out of country after all. You have to have a passport to leave the country.



I read this spoiler as Chloe got what she wanted and has Nancy return from "NYC" with Parker, perpetuating the deception that they were in NY all along. BUT, Daniel stumbles upon Nancy's passport with a recent Brazil stamp.
Edited by Marlene, Apr 2 2013, 02:46 PM.
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Aliaron
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Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 02:25 PM
LuvingLumi
Apr 2 2013, 02:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 01:56 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Are we watching the same show? The one where Will has been staring longingly at that sonogram image of his daughter on an almost weekly basis? The one where Will keeps seeing little girls who remind him of his daughter? The one where Will keeps fretting about what he's going to do when his daughter is born and he's forced to stand on the sidelines and watch as a homophobic jerk raises her and poisons her mind with hateful filth? The one where Will has been almost solely focused on his daughter for months, and especially since the moment that he reunited with Sonny (who was his only other focus in recent months)?

Will feels (or felt, until a few days ago) defeated, yes. He felt like he was going to have to somehow learn to live with something that would be impossible to live with, because he felt like Nick was holding all of the cards (which is stupid, because Nick shouldn't be winning this often, but I've already complained about that). But I can't fathom how anyone could possibly equate that with Will not wanting to be in his daughter's life -- or not truly caring about his family, for that matter, since his family was the only reason that he allowed Nick to blackmail him in the first place. Will has repeatedly stressed that if he were the only one who would suffer the consequences, he wouldn't hesitate to accept responsibility for his crime so that Nick would not have any leverage to use against him. Will's daughter would then be able to visit him in jail, at the very least, and Will would be able to look forward to the future, knowing that he would eventually be released from jail and free to spend the rest of his life with his daughter. But Will can't do that, because Nick isn't just threatening to expose Will's secret -- he's threatening to expose Lucas, Roman, and Hope's secrets, as well. (As an aside, I believe that, while Nick's homophobia is absolutely the primary reason that Nick is obsessed with getting Will out of Will's daughter's life, Nick is also jealous of the fact that Roman and Hope protected Will, but were never willing to protect Nick [ignoring the fact that Nick, unlike Will, was legally an adult when he committed his crimes, since Nick's a psycho who would never acknowledge key details like that -- details that would invalidate his entire argument], so he's willing to ruin their lives just to spite them. That's just speculation on my part at this point, but it'd be interesting to see the writers eventually address that, IMO.)

Personally, I don't believe that Nick truly loves the baby, nor do I believe that Nick truly loves Gabi. Nick's just obsessed with possessing both of them and preventing two gay men from being involved in a child's life. But I absolutely believe that Will loves his daughter.
I'm sure we are all watching the same show but interpret it differently.....and we both might be right. My biggest issue has always been that Will, NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING to prove to to all of us that he wants to be part of this child's life. He's Sami's kid, he's Lucas' kid...he's Kate's grandson....these aren't people that historically did absolutely nothing when their backs were against the wall. He might want to be part of his kid's life now, but frankly in the beginning he was fine with having his child be raised by another man and I know that Nick was playing it cool back then but the hints were everywhere as to who Nick was, and what his beliefs were.....if it wasn't for Nick calling Sonny the f word then I don't know if Will would have done anything to actually try to turn things around, and even early on he was fine with giving his right away to Nick instead of letting the truth come out because he was afraid to lose Sonny. I don't like what he's doing, (going to Stefano), as he had other, better options but Will needed to act, and I'd argue that it needed to come from HIM earlier....and going to Stefano makes Will weak.....he'll owe him something in return and that likely will lead to him not being part of his daughter's life anyway.
The writers aren't letting Will do anything himself because they're focused on letting Nick win repeatedly so that they can drag the story out for a longer amount of time. I've complained about this several times already -- I completely agree that it's stupid, but I disagree that it equates to Will not loving his daughter or wanting to be in her life.

And I also disagree with the statement that Will was originally willing to give up his daughter simply so that he could be with Sonny. That is not what happened, period. The writers tried to sell that line of crap later, but that doesn't erase all of the scenes where Will clearly explained that he was giving up his child so that she could be raised in a stable environment -- a luxury that Nick and Gabi had convinced Will that Will's daughter would not receive if they tried to co-parent. Will was doing what he thought was best for his daughter, even at the cost of his own feelings -- the very definition of love. And even then, he certainly wasn't "fine" with it -- he was clearly depicted as being a very conflicted person from the very beginning.

I want Will to take charge of the situation just as much as you do, but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon, since the writers have a clear agenda that involves stretching this storyline out for as long as they possibly can, even if that means making it a completely far-fetched storyline in the process (which they are well on their way to doing already). I'm sick of seeing Nick constantly win while Will and the rest of the people on Will's side of the equation constantly lose. But regardless of all of that, I just don't see how anyone can question Will's love for his child at this point. One has nothing to do with the other.
I don't feel like Will's cares about his kid. I feel like he is only acting (if we want to call it that) now because Nick was mean to Sonny. Because he hates gays. Will is not fighting to be a dad. He is fighting to get back at Nick. And that is partly why this fight is weak and not a defining moment for the character. This could change. But that is where I see it standing now.
Edited by Aliaron, Apr 2 2013, 02:52 PM.
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lysie
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The baby story blows. It just does. Yeah, it involves a lot of characters and almost all of them are in the wrong roles. There's no Team Gabi. Gabi's barely a part of the story. It's hard to believe that that's a bad thing, but there you go. There's Team Will which is really Team Sami and there's Nick. There's a place for both EJ and Sami in the story and yet they're still in the wrong place. EJ has managed to take on both Lucas' and Marlena's roles (which makes zero sense in either context) and Sami might as well give birth to the baby because she's playing the role Gabi should have. Even the discussions about "the story" aren't actually about the story. That's because the story is not good.
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Aliaron
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samwel
Apr 2 2013, 01:21 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 01:17 PM
samwel
Apr 2 2013, 12:51 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:46 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
For starters, EJAMI do not need Stefano for legitimacy, they already have it. Secondly, from the time he came back it has been hinted he is going to cause some sort of trouble for them, no one is expecting Jarlena, but that does not negate some sl with Steffy being the thorn in their side.
But the reason you give a couple a intruder is for root value. I call it root value because I can't think of a term for making fans root for a couple. One of the problems is that Stephano has not been a big bad in years. By lessening him they have taken away his ability to add root value to a couple. People don't hate Stephano anymore. And unless you are already a fan of Sami and Ej, Stephano messing with them won't make you hate him. Its a battle that has no root value. I don't root for them or him and I don't root against them or him. I just don't care.

So unless this is only about pleasing an established fanbase and not about growing the show and telling good stories its a waste.
and unless you represent everyone outside of the established fanbase, you cannot speak for the value that this sl will have to them.
Yes, let's find the fan's version of Neo. Since only his opinion matters. :eyeroll:
Edited by Aliaron, Apr 2 2013, 03:02 PM.
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samwel


Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 02:59 PM
samwel
Apr 2 2013, 01:21 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 01:17 PM
samwel
Apr 2 2013, 12:51 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
But the reason you give a couple a intruder is for root value. I call it root value because I can't think of a term for making fans root for a couple. One of the problems is that Stephano has not been a big bad in years. By lessening him they have taken away his ability to add root value to a couple. People don't hate Stephano anymore. And unless you are already a fan of Sami and Ej, Stephano messing with them won't make you hate him. Its a battle that has no root value. I don't root for them or him and I don't root against them or him. I just don't care.

So unless this is only about pleasing an established fanbase and not about growing the show and telling good stories its a waste.
and unless you represent everyone outside of the established fanbase, you cannot speak for the value that this sl will have to them.
Yes, let's find the fan's version of Neo. Since only his opinion matters. :eyeroll:
more of the same :rolleyes:
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 02:25 PM
LuvingLumi
Apr 2 2013, 02:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Apr 2 2013, 01:56 PM
Aliaron
Apr 2 2013, 12:32 PM
I still don't get the feeling that Will even wants to be in the kid's life. He does not feel like a character who truly cares for his family.
Are we watching the same show? The one where Will has been staring longingly at that sonogram image of his daughter on an almost weekly basis? The one where Will keeps seeing little girls who remind him of his daughter? The one where Will keeps fretting about what he's going to do when his daughter is born and he's forced to stand on the sidelines and watch as a homophobic jerk raises her and poisons her mind with hateful filth? The one where Will has been almost solely focused on his daughter for months, and especially since the moment that he reunited with Sonny (who was his only other focus in recent months)?

Will feels (or felt, until a few days ago) defeated, yes. He felt like he was going to have to somehow learn to live with something that would be impossible to live with, because he felt like Nick was holding all of the cards (which is stupid, because Nick shouldn't be winning this often, but I've already complained about that). But I can't fathom how anyone could possibly equate that with Will not wanting to be in his daughter's life -- or not truly caring about his family, for that matter, since his family was the only reason that he allowed Nick to blackmail him in the first place. Will has repeatedly stressed that if he were the only one who would suffer the consequences, he wouldn't hesitate to accept responsibility for his crime so that Nick would not have any leverage to use against him. Will's daughter would then be able to visit him in jail, at the very least, and Will would be able to look forward to the future, knowing that he would eventually be released from jail and free to spend the rest of his life with his daughter. But Will can't do that, because Nick isn't just threatening to expose Will's secret -- he's threatening to expose Lucas, Roman, and Hope's secrets, as well. (As an aside, I believe that, while Nick's homophobia is absolutely the primary reason that Nick is obsessed with getting Will out of Will's daughter's life, Nick is also jealous of the fact that Roman and Hope protected Will, but were never willing to protect Nick [ignoring the fact that Nick, unlike Will, was legally an adult when he committed his crimes, since Nick's a psycho who would never acknowledge key details like that -- details that would invalidate his entire argument], so he's willing to ruin their lives just to spite them. That's just speculation on my part at this point, but it'd be interesting to see the writers eventually address that, IMO.)

Personally, I don't believe that Nick truly loves the baby, nor do I believe that Nick truly loves Gabi. Nick's just obsessed with possessing both of them and preventing two gay men from being involved in a child's life. But I absolutely believe that Will loves his daughter.
I'm sure we are all watching the same show but interpret it differently.....and we both might be right. My biggest issue has always been that Will, NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING to prove to to all of us that he wants to be part of this child's life. He's Sami's kid, he's Lucas' kid...he's Kate's grandson....these aren't people that historically did absolutely nothing when their backs were against the wall. He might want to be part of his kid's life now, but frankly in the beginning he was fine with having his child be raised by another man and I know that Nick was playing it cool back then but the hints were everywhere as to who Nick was, and what his beliefs were.....if it wasn't for Nick calling Sonny the f word then I don't know if Will would have done anything to actually try to turn things around, and even early on he was fine with giving his right away to Nick instead of letting the truth come out because he was afraid to lose Sonny. I don't like what he's doing, (going to Stefano), as he had other, better options but Will needed to act, and I'd argue that it needed to come from HIM earlier....and going to Stefano makes Will weak.....he'll owe him something in return and that likely will lead to him not being part of his daughter's life anyway.
The writers aren't letting Will do anything himself because they're focused on letting Nick win repeatedly so that they can drag the story out for a longer amount of time. I've complained about this several times already -- I completely agree that it's stupid, but I disagree that it equates to Will not loving his daughter or wanting to be in her life.

And I also disagree with the statement that Will was originally willing to give up his daughter simply so that he could be with Sonny. That is not what happened, period. The writers tried to sell that line of crap later, but that doesn't erase all of the scenes where Will clearly explained that he was giving up his child so that she could be raised in a stable environment -- a luxury that Nick and Gabi had convinced Will that Will's daughter would not receive if they tried to co-parent. Will was doing what he thought was best for his daughter, even at the cost of his own feelings -- the very definition of love. And even then, he certainly wasn't "fine" with it -- he was clearly depicted as being a very conflicted person from the very beginning.

I want Will to take charge of the situation just as much as you do, but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon, since the writers have a clear agenda that involves stretching this storyline out for as long as they possibly can, even if that means making it a completely far-fetched storyline in the process (which they are well on their way to doing already). I'm sick of seeing Nick constantly win while Will and the rest of the people on Will's side of the equation constantly lose. But regardless of all of that, I just don't see how anyone can question Will's love for his child at this point. One has nothing to do with the other.
I'm not so sure that the writers want to further the story so they are playing it this way....they can still make the story drag out by having Will attempt to do things to one up Nick that don't work on multiple occasions....it still gives Nick the advantage in the story and the wins for now, but at least it would have painted Will in an entirely different light to the audience. I truly think they are just writing Will weak....so he can get desperate enough now to seek Stefano and sell his soul to the devil...in the end he won't be part of his child's life anyway...but for an entirely different reason...he might not be alive to see her born....

On this:

Quote:
 

And I also disagree with the statement that Will was originally willing to give up his daughter simply so that he could be with Sonny. That is not what happened, period.


It is what happened....it played out that way.....and the ONLY time he actually had to step up was when Chad already opened his mouth at the church.....he had to come clean then.

And you know what....it's hard to discount this when the writers put it in dialogue later.....and it was exactly the way I saw it....he initially didn't want to be part of her life.....he was willing to give her up and he agreed to Nick and Gabi raising her. I'm not saying he didn't have doubts later, obviously the dream was an indicator but initially that is exactly the way it played out. Then the writers inserted the exact dialogue later and it was confirmation.

We constantly complain that this show wants us to ignore what we saw on our screens and frankly I refuse to do that...they put it in dialogue and it played out that way...he didn't want to tell Sonny the truth because he had finally been open and honest with himself and started a relationship with the man he loved and he didn't want to tell him that he had gotten Gabi pregnant, because he feared he would lose Sonny if he told him the truth. Obviously it's a soap but the show puts dialogue in for a reason....you really can't discount it especially when he said it word for word.....and he said just that a little while after he told Sonny the truth.....

Frankly Will's writing has bothered me for so long now.....those scenes at the hospital when Sonny, Lucas, Sami, Ej and him were all confronting Nick and all Will did was just stand there like a mute, irritated the hell out of me....everyone else was saying stuff and all he did was just stand there and stare.....

I love Sonny and Will but I am not going to discount some of the biggest problems I have with Will in this story and that's his inability to act from the beginning.
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zanygrrl
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Will's decision to let Nick and Gabi raise the baby wasn't about Sonny. It didn't become about Sonny until the wedding aftermath. Will actually frequently told Gabi and Nick that Sonny had nothing to do with his decision. When they were first talking about everything (after the clinic) Nick, and later Gabi, were the ones that constantly brought up Sonny. Will always shot them down. He made it very clear that the main reason he went along with the lie was because he wanted his child to have a stable home life. Consider the scene during the Christmas holidays when Will watched Johnny talking to Santa about having lots of chimneys.

I guess the writers wanted to make it more poignant by adding the Sonny angle later on.
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jaygal
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Sonny was always part of the reason.
During Gabi and Wills conv. the day after Gabi first told Will they were both worried about losing their significant others.
It may not have been the main reason but for Will losing Sonny has always been a factor.
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concerned
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MissLola
Apr 2 2013, 07:26 AM
Laufeyson
Apr 2 2013, 06:46 AM
Partnersincrime
Apr 2 2013, 04:01 AM
Kristenís schemes come apart at the seams as Sy turns to Victor and Hope actually makes an arrest in Bradyís beating.
Gabi gets a shock when Kate leaps into the middle of the custody fight. Could this backfire on Kate?
Although he needs a lot of help, Daniel finally gets a clue about what Chloe has been up to.
Anne manages to discover Cameronís scandalous alternative career.
Nicole and Vargas continue to pull closer together.

http://blog.soapoperafan.com/2013/04/days-of-our-lives-spoilers-and-videos-for-april-8-12/#more-122077
I'm hoping Vargas isn't using Nicole like he is Eric and Hope.
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if he knows about her hefty divorce settlement.
Her hefty divorce settlement???

Oh you mean the one that is here one week and then gone the next necessitating her to move into Horton houses or convents due to its transient state of being.
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