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Thursday, April 18th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Apr 18 2013, 08:50 AM (7,677 Views)
nightfan


Phenomenal cliffhanger! It's great when unlikely characters get in on the action. Ciara grabbing that envelope and opening that photo was a sign that the writers are finally kicking this story up a notch!
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Wilson_EJami
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Wilson was to adorable yesterday :wub: . Love how Will stood up to Brian and said Sonny is mine. Good that Sonny is the one saying Brian should back off. Great scenes with all the guys.

I really hope they put Chabby together soon. Love these two.

This Kristen stuff is getting a bit much.
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Oak Alley
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Can't wait to watch this episode when I get home! I saw some of it in the preview. Hope looks amazing with her hair styled like that!! :wub: Thrilled to see Brian & T back in Salem. My Chad is on :wub: - with Abby :wub:

Ciara opening the envelope- nice twist!!
Edited by Oak Alley, Apr 19 2013, 02:56 AM.
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Wilson_EJami
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Chad & Abigail_D
Apr 19 2013, 02:56 AM
Can't wait to watch this episode when I get home! I saw some of it in the preview. Hope looks amazing with her hair styled like that!! :wub: Thrilled to see Brian & T back in Salem. My Chad is on :wub: - with Abby :wub:

Ciara opening the envelope- nice twist!!
I like Chabby :wub2: . I can't wait to see this storyline move along. They are so cute together.
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Will&Sonny


I haven't had time to read this thread, but aside from the mention of He Whom I Would Have Preferred to Go One Day Without Thinking About in a Will and Sonny Episode (and it really was completely unnecessary to mention him -- they could have easily removed his name from the reference to the fight, or removed the reference to the fight completely), I thought this was a perfect episode for Will and Sonny, and it was easily the best episode of the week.

The only thing that could have possibly made it better would have been a love scene at the end. I hope that we start seeing some more love scenes in the near future (ones that aren't interrupted with more bad news for Will and Sonny, thanks), and more scenes that have nothing to do with the homophobic jerk.
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PatNS
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Please note: This report is not to be copied and pasted to any other sites. Please link only. Link to summary archive:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/358635/


Director: Albert Alarr
Scriptwriter: David Cherrill


Segment 1: Repeat of Kristen flinging the mansion door open to leave and finding Brady there.

Brian, T, Chad, Will and Sonny all come into the pub talking about their basketball game. Will is going to get them something to drink. Brian offers to help him carry. Chad notices Cameron outside and goes out to talk to him. T tells Sonny all this laughing and energy was good for Will. Sonny - That's the guy I fell in love with. Will orders 2 pitchers of unsweetened iced tea. Brian asks when his baby is due. Will - Soon. Brain - My guess is Sonny's not going to be too thrilled about that. Will - You know what Brian I cut you a lot of slack with all the crap you pulled when Sonny and I were having a rough patch but you have hit your limit man.

Ciara is sitting at a table in the coffeehouse drawing a picture. Abigail comes in. Hope greets her and asks if everything's okay. Abby - Yes. No, I mean, I hope so. I'm looking for someone. She leaves before Hope can ask who.

Chad - I'm just asking. Cam - If I came to the pub for coffee so I wouldn't have to see you at your place? Chad - Didn't work though, did it? Come on, let's talk. We're family. We shouldn't be cutting each other out like this. Cam is going to get coffee. Chad - Wait, there's something you should know about Mrs. Brady ... Caroline walks up. When she sees Cameron she says - I recognise you.

Vic notices that Kristen left her scarf behind. Maggie comes into the living room and asks Vic where that came from, it's gorgeous. Vic - When Brady came over to go over the art proposals he brought his one true love along to help. Maggie - And things went south from there? Vic - Not exactly. What I thought was going to be a pleasant one on one time with my grandson turned out ... aw to hell with it! I've decided he could make all the decisions himself with or without that bitch. When he left he put all the proposals in his briefcase. He probably picked out the ones he wants already.

Kristen - You're back. I can explain everything. I promise you I can explain it all. Brady - Let me catch the breath. He walks into the living room. Where the hell is it, huh? Kristen - What are you talking about? Brady - My Ferrari. It was parked in the driveway when I left now it's gone. I thought this place had security. Kristen - My father had your car towed to the motorcourt in the back. Brady - Why the hell would he do something like that? Kristen - Where you parked, he considers that his spot. I know it seems crazy. I'm sorry. So seriously, that's what you're upset about? Brady - Yeah. Why? Is there something else? Kristen - No, it's just you were kind of over the top about your car. Brady - There is something going on because you said let me explain everything. What were you talking about? Kristen stares at his briefcase.

T - Will's been kind of quiet lately; like he's been down about something. Is he freaked out about the baby? Sonny - No. He's just ... he's going through a lot right now. I'm glad you bugged him to get out and do something. It's important for him to stay active. T - That's what friends are for although I wasn't too good at the friendship thing for a while. Brian - What's with the attitude, Will, I just made a comment. Will - I know you're Sonny's friend ... Brian - I was kind of hoping I was your friend too. Will - Really. Does a friend try to convince me that he slept with my boyfriend? Brian - Hey, you jumped to conclusions all by yourself. Will - No, no. You worded things to make sure I'd jump. And btw I'm more than aware of you doing your little thing around him all the time. Every chance you get you hang out an available sign. You're a bright guy and everyone knows that. I don't understand why you're so clueless. Brian - Clueless about what? Will - Sonny and I are together. Sonny is mine so if you want to go ahead and take a shot, try your luck. Go ahead man.

Hope brings Ciara some juice. John comes in and greets them both. John just came in for some coffee. Hope - I'm really glad we ran into each other. We need to talk about Marlena and Kristen.


Segment 2: Chad - Cameron works with Kayla down at the hospital. That's probably where you've seen him before. He's Lexie's brother. This is Dr. Cameron Davis. Caroline - Celeste Perrault's son. Cam - Right. Caroline - You know you took over a shift for me when I was away and I never got to thank you. Cam - I enjoyed doing it Mrs. Brady. Caroline - You must be wanting some coffee and you're in a hurry. I'll get you some. When she goes inside Chad tells Cam - I tried telling you she was at the club last night. Cam - What! No way! Why would she even show up there? Chad - I don't know. She was out and about with another Alzheimer's patient; probably part of their therapy or something. Cam - They don't take Alzheimer's patients to strip clubs for therapy. Chad - You're probably right. You're in luck though; she probably won't remember any of this. But listen, we need to talk about Abigail. Cam - No we don't. Chad - She was just trying to help you. Cam - I'm not going to talk about Abigail with you ... clear! Chad - Okay. I'll come find you later, maybe we can hang out. Cam - I'll be busy. Chad - Whatever. He goes back into the pub just as Caroline comes out with Cam's coffee. I just have to tell you I enjoyed your act so much. Oh my, you took your shirt off ... you got me. Your act is hot! Smokin' hot. Cameron - OOOOOOOOOOOkay.

Maggie - I'm sorry your time with Brady got spoiled. Vic - That woman spoils everything she comes near. It made me sick the way she had him eating out of her hand. Maggie - You didn't get into a fight, did you? Vic - No. I bit my tongue, she put on her phony smile; it was all peaches and cream. When Brady stepped out to take a phone call she made sure I got the message. Maggie - What message? Vic - She pointed out that John and Marlena are no longer in Brady's life and that could happen to anyone. Maggie - So then it was a threat? Vic - Definitely. The thing I have going on my side is she doesn't know where I stand. I think she's hoping that old grandpa is going to buy her bull. Maggie - And I'm sure you will when pigs fly. Vic - I just wish the guy who had information on her would call back and I could get something to use against her. Maggie - Let's not go through this again.

Back at the coffeehouse we see Sy's envelope beside Ciara's things. Hope - You and I are friends right. We've always been honest with each other. John - Absolutely. You know what Hope, it's better that we don't discuss what's going on with Doc and me. Hope - You've been treating her terribly, horribly. I'm sorry. That's the way I see it because it's the truth. Is Marlena perfect? No. Has she made mistakes? Absolutely. But God knows John, haven't we all? Are you really going to throw away your marriage because of this Brady Kristen business? John - I'm not sure it's as simple as you're trying ... Hope - You need to find your way back to Marlena by whatever means possible. I mean it. You two need to come together, stay together, stand together, side by side ... a united front otherwise you will lose Brady forever.

Kristen - It's nothing. I just ... I thought maybe you ran into your father on your way back to the house. Brady - Why would he be here? Kristen - I don't know. Maybe he wanted to make peace? He came by. I listened for as long as I could and then I told him he had to go. Brady - Maybe he thought he'd run into me; get another shot at turning me around. Kristen - Actually he came by to see me. He wanted to give me something. He said it would remind me of our past. Brady - Like what. Kristen shows him the baseball jersey.


Segment 3: Abby is rushing through the square. She stops and starts talking to herself. What am I doing? What would I even say to him? Hi Cameron, I dropped by to say how sorry I am I have such a big mouth. That would never work. He would be more mad at me than he was last night. She pulls out her phone. Okay Chad, we are a team like it or not.

Caroline tells Cameron - Don't worry. My lips are sealed. You're safe okay. You have a good day ... she chuckles. Inside Chad gets Abby's message. He tells the guys he has to get going. Sonny tells him they'll be here for a while if he wants to come back. Chad will see them soon. T and Will decide to order some fries. Sonny looks at Brian's expression ... What? Brian - Your boyfriend thinks I'm always flirting with you. What do you think? T - You know why we won that game today right? It wasn't because Chad was sitting by the hoop and dunking. Will - He must have scored 20 points. T - You and I did all the work; we're scrappy and that shot you took at the end was awesome. Will - Thank you. You set me up with that pass ... T - We were in the zone today. Will agrees. T - I hope it doesn't change. Will - Yeah, with the baby, you mean. T - Are you freaked out yet? Having a baby ... not because of the whole gay thing or Gabi thing ... it's having a baby. Thinking about it freaks me out. I mean, it's huge! I mean it's tiny, but it's huge!

Vic - Maggie, the man could have some useful information. Maggie - We have talked about this. It's much more likely that he's some kind of a huckster trying to punk you for money. You said yourself Kristen could be behind it trying to make you look bad in front of Brady. Vic - I know what I thought but my gut's telling me a different story so if he calls again ... His phone rings once. Maggie - False alarm. Vic - I can't help wondering why the guy stopped calling. Henderson comes in. Excuse me ma'am, you're son Dr. Jonas is on the line. Maggie takes the call. Vic picks up the scarf. One of these days you're going to slip up and fall. When you do, it's going to be hard. Let's hope it's not near Brady.

Brady - This is a random, silly ... Kristen - Maybe John was going through his closets and thought I needed an old sweater. Brady - What did he say about this - he holds up the shirt. Kristen - I opened it after he left so he didn't say anything. Brady - He's tried to bribe me with presents before. Kristen - That was nice though because it reminded you of your mom. Brady - Maybe he's trying to do the same thing with you. Kristen - It didn't work the first time, it's not going to work the second. Brady has to go check on his car. If he scratched that thing ... As soon as he's gone Kristen rifles through Brady's briefcase looking for that envelope.


Segment 4: Sonny - Will and I love each other which means we trust each other. Brian - You guys weren't always so solid. Sonny - I know and it was my fault for sending you mixed signals and I'm sorry but that's why I've been cutting you slack lately but there's a limit. Brian - Cutting me slack! Sonny - For months I've been ignoring your innuendos, your looks, your secret smiles. I thought eventually you'd get the message when I didn't respond but you haven't, so here it is. Stop. Will and I are together, we love each other and if you want to continue to be friends you're going to have to let it go. Is that clear? Brian - It's clear. Will - I hear what you're saying but I'm excited, I'm not freaked out. There's going to be a real live person that I helped make ... it's crazy. T - It's the miracle of life. I'm sorry. Will - It's okay. I guess you can't understand it until you have a kid yourself but that's exactly what a baby is ... it's a miracle.

As soon as Chad arrives at the square Abby tells him they have to do something right now. Chad - Slow down. I'm assuming this is about Cameron. Abby - Yes. Chad - Relax. I just saw the guy. He's a little cranky but fine. He's not talking to me but he's fine. Abby - He could lose his job and it could all be because of me. Honestly, how stupid does one person have to be. I should have known he wasn't doing anything illegal. Chad - We did see him carrying that gun. Abby - A fake gun for his act and then I blabbed away about it to you and Anne Millbauer was listening to me. Chad - Listening to us; this isn't all on you. Abby - She still went to the strip club to find him and to catch him. Chad - She didn't but I guess the question is, is she going to get the guy fired or not?

Anne walks up to Cam at the nurse's station and tells him they need to have a very serious talk.

Maggie returns. Vic asks how Daniel is doing. Maggie - He sounded okay, a little cryptic. He wants to see me. He sounded upbeat. Vic - That's a good sign. Chloe Lane being gone is an even better sign. Maggie - I have to stop by Chez Rouge to pick up some stuff from my office. Why don't I take Kristen's scarf and drop it off at the DiMera house. That way you don't have to suffer another visit from her. She leaves.

John - I know you care Hope and I appreciate what you said, I really do. Hope - But you're not going to take any advice from me. John - I'm going to handle this my way. Hope - This? John - Yeah. Brady, Kristen, Marlena, the whole mess. Hope - Kristen's a DiMera John. She tried to kill Marlena and in doing so, destroy you. What's going on with you? I know you. Why are you holding back? You know Kristen's a threat. She has her tentacles wrapped around your son and she's dragging him down. Don't you care? John - I love my son and I will do anything for him. Anything.

Brady returns - Stefano's lucky, no scratches. He notices that she's going through his briefcase. What are you doing? Kristen - I was just curious about those art proposals that you and Victor were going through. Did you chose one? Brady - No, I only checked out of few. Granddad's not involved anymore. Actually I really like this one. Tell me what you think. Kristen - It is cool. I love that. Brady - I like this one too. Kristen - Is this all of them? Brady counts them - That's weird. There's only 9 envelopes here. There's supposed to be 10. I know the one that's missing too. I was ready to open it ... I don't know where it is. I'm going to call Henderson ... Kristen - I can swing by there. I left my scarf there earlier and I wanted to wear it tonight. Brady - Okay. Just ask Henderson if he seen it. You can also check the table where we had the envelopes. Kristen - If it's there I'm going to find it.


Segment 5: T, Brian, Will and Sonny are talking about a Maroon 5 / Avril Lavigne concert in Chicago. Sonny - And Adam Levine said some people from The Voice might be there. Brian - Sounds awesome. Maybe I'll try and find a date and join you guys. T - I might be able to help you out with that. You remember Audrey right ... Brian - You've mentioned her before. T - She's got a brother who's into dudes. Brian - What does he look like? T - I don't know. He's Audrey's brother and he's into dudes ... what more do you need? Brian - Okay, try and set it up. I've got to jet. See you guys. T - Brian, can I get a ride home. My car is in the shop. Will - You don't have a car. T - Yes I do. It's in the shop being made. They leave. Will - Brian is not going to like Audrey's brother. Sonny - Why not? Will - He looks nothing like his sister. Sonny comments that it's nice seeing Will this happy. Will - You know why I'm so happy. I'm with you. They kiss. Caroline watches.

Chad tells Abby to stop pacing. You're stressing me out. Abby - I can't. Chad - I keep telling you Anne Millbauer was passed out drunk before Cameron went on the stage. Abby - I know but she still knew that Cameron was there. I've seen that woman do her number on people before. She does not let go, no matter what. For all we know she could be at the hospital firing Cameron right now.

Cam is about to do rounds. Anne - It won't take long. Cam - What's up? Anne - We need to discuss a resignation.

Henderson lets Kristen in. She gushes about how efficient he is. If our man Harold was half as good as you are we'd be very lucky. Vic pipes up - You're wasting your time. If I were you I'd get myself home to Brady. Kristen - Why? Vic - Because he has what you're looking for. Maggie dropped it off at that mausoleum Stefano calls a house and gave it to him. Brady probably has it in his hands as we speak. Kristen - Are you positive about this? Vic - Of course I am. Maggie thought you'd want it back. Kristen - Want it back. What are you talking about? Vic - Your damn scarf woman, what are you talking about. Kristen laughs. I'm talking about the art proposals Victor. Vic - Brady stuffed those in his briefcase when he left. Kristen - When I was here earlier with Brady I was hoping that maybe we could put our differences aside; start a new relationship that we can build on. That's still my hope.

Maggie knocks on the living room door when she see Brady working. Brady greets her with a hug. Maggie came to drop this scarf for Kristen. I'm sure she's looking for it. Brady - She was. Thank you for doing this. Maggie - So how do you like your new digs. How's it working out? Stefano keeping his distance? Brady - On and off. It's been good. Everything is fine. Maggie - I'm glad to hear it. I'm also glad that you and Victor are inching forward. Brady - We're trying. It all depends on how he's willing to treat Kristen. I know it's hard for some people but she's not the woman she was years ago; it's that simple. Maggie notices the baseball jersey. She picks it up. She's definitely not the woman who once wore this.


Segment 6: Will tells Sonny he had fun today. I feel it's been such a long time since I've seen you this relaxed. You've been under so much pressure lately. Will - Me, what about you. You've had to fight with Nick. You agreed to help me out with the baby. Sonny - Arianna Grace is going to have an amazing life and we're going to help make it happen no matter what. Will - Thank you. It sounds like you really thought this through. Sonny - I did. I want you in my life Will. I want you to be happy. They kiss again. Caroline walks up - There will be no public displays of affection in this pub, understood?

Brady - You recognise that jersey? Maggie - I remember it. Team Moose Little League. It was a long time ago. Brady - You were involved? Maggie - You bet. I coached them with your father and Kristen. We were on a winning streak. We had such a terrible bunch of boys. They were so talented. Giving jerseys to everyone ... wow ... it was a terrific day. Brady - Seems like it was just yesterday to you. Maggie - Sometimes it seems that way. Somethings you just never forget.

Hope - I'm sure you'd do anything for Brady. John - Yeah. Hope - But what are you going to do to get Kristen out of his life. John, please tell me you have a plan. What are you going to do? John recalls going to see Kristen with his gift. He looks at Hope - Maybe there is nothing I can do. Hope - I don't believe that; neither do you. You're John Black. You never give up. John - Maybe that guy's gone. See you around. He leaves.

Kristen - Well we used to get along once, remember? Vic - That was a lifetime ago. As I told you this morning I'm just not sure about you. And nothing has happened since then to change my mind. Kristen - Maybe you can keep an open mind. That's all I can really ask for. Vic - You can ask for anything you like; Brady will always say yes. Other people, not so much. Kristen - Could I get a glass of water maybe. Vic will see to it that she gets some. As soon as he's gone she starts searching for the envelope. Henderson comes in and asks if she's looking for something in particular. She is. It's really important that I find it. The camera pans to the envelope which is underneath Ciara's knapsack in the coffeehouse.


Segment 7: Will removes his arm from around Sonny's shoulder. I'm sorry. He was just saying such sweet things. Caroline starts laughing. I'm kidding! If I got upset every time couples kissed in this pub I'd be out of business a long time ago. Sonny asks her if she wants to join them. Caroline - I just came over to say how nice it is to see you both so happy. Sonny - Thank you. We're very happy. Caroline - I've been around a lot of years, things change. I think it's about time everybody can be who they are, wherever they are, right? She walks away. Sonny - Wow, what a great lady. You're very lucky to have her. Will - Yes, I know.

Abby - I got it. That club in Chicago would never give out a dancer's real name, right? Chad - Probably not. Abby - So all we have to do is get Anne to think Cameron was one of the bartenders; that's why he was there. Chad - I don't know how you just slip that in the conversation especially when you're dealing with a conniving bitch like Anne. Abby - Thank you for your overwhelming positivity! Chad - Okay, maybe it will work. Sure beats seeing Cameron get fired.

Cam - A resignation? Anne - A nurse, Georgeanne Franklin, 3rd floor Pediatrics. Cam - I know her. Anne - She's moving to Florida and needs a letter of recommendation. Would you mind? Cam - I'm still pretty new here but I do know Nurse Franklin and I think she's pretty terrific. I'll have it to you by tomorrow. Anne - I really appreciate it. You can use this form here. I really appreciate it. Thank you for not holding it against me ... what I said to Abigail Devereaux that day. I was way out of line. I'm sorry about that. Have a great day.

Brady - So you, Dad and Kristen were coaching ... what was the name? Maggie - Team Moose. Brady - And one day everybody got a jersey like that. Maggie - Yeah. Brady - Is this a good memory because I'm getting mixed signals here. Maggie - Like I said, it was a good day. We were winning and a lot of people were rooting for us. Brady - But? Maggie - I guess the reason I'm a little conflicted about all this is ... that was also the day I realised that John had very real, very deep feelings for Kristen.

John is in the park. He pulls out the picture Kristen gave him.

Kristen tells Henderson that Brady may have dropped or misplaced one of the art proposals. I'm just going to look around. Henderson - You can look but I distinctly remembering Mr. Black putting the envelopes into his briefcase. He leaves. Cue flashback of Brady realising an envelope is missing. Kristen - OMG, it was in his hand. Who the hell has it now?

Ciara picks up the envelope and opens it. She pulls out the picture of Kristen paying off Sy.
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BeeBee
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nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 01:57 AM
jb1183
Apr 18 2013, 09:16 PM
What were we supposed to make of Caroline telling Wilson "No PDA!" She played it off like a joke and then made pro-gay comments, but are we supposed to think her Alzheimer's is making her revert to old anti-gay attitudes? I'm confused about what exactly the point of that was.
I'm not happy that it was a joke. There needs to be some drama. Having everyone accept Wilson is not OK and seems artificial even. This isn't the same Caroline praying for the demons to leave Marlena at the penthouse. This Caroline, going to strip clubs and waxing poetic on gay rights, (just as a character, I mean) is not someone recognizable to me.

Well,Nick is not okay with it and there is a lot of hate directed at him.I wonder about comments that the relationship is too "after school special" then when the Nick character is not okay with it,there appears to be actual hatred directed toward the character and the actor.
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six
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Somebody could believe a character like Nick is necessary for the story and still dislike Nick and what he's doing.
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BeeBee
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six
Apr 19 2013, 10:01 AM
Somebody could believe a character like Nick is necessary for the story and still dislike Nick and what he's doing.
I don't see wanting the character/actor off the show as belief that he is necessary for the story.
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six
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Well sure, but I'm willing to bet most of the people who want wilson to deal with homophobia aren't the same ones who want Nick to be written out.
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Sweet and Salty


nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 01:57 AM
jb1183
Apr 18 2013, 09:16 PM
What were we supposed to make of Caroline telling Wilson "No PDA!" She played it off like a joke and then made pro-gay comments, but are we supposed to think her Alzheimer's is making her revert to old anti-gay attitudes? I'm confused about what exactly the point of that was.
I'm not happy that it was a joke. There needs to be some drama. Having everyone accept Wilson is not OK and seems artificial even. This isn't the same Caroline praying for the demons to leave Marlena at the penthouse. This Caroline, going to strip clubs and waxing poetic on gay rights, (just as a character, I mean) is not someone recognizable to me.

That. That is the Caroline I remember!! Thank you for validating my opinion on their characterization of her!!
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Will&Sonny


Will and Sonny have already dealt with varying degrees of homophobia plenty of times. We've seen T's homophobia at two different times in their storyline -- first when Sonny arrived in Salem, and again after Will came out of the closet. We've seen Lucas' homophobia. And now we're seeing Nick's homophobia, which is worse than any of the aforementioned characters' homophobia was.

In fact, one could argue that homophobia has been a central focus of Will and Sonny's storyline from the moment that they started dating each other. Lucas' homophobia started the same day that Will and Sonny shared their first real kiss, then Lucas and Nick's homophobia was actually being shown at the same time on-screen, so when Lucas finally stopped being a jerk, Nick just immediately took Lucas' place. There was no break in between, and there's no end in sight yet. I don't see how anyone could possibly accuse Days of being too "after-school special", unless they're looking for Days to say that it's okay for someone to be homophobic, which simply isn't going to happen, because it's not okay.

Yes, it would have made perfect sense for Caroline to be the homophobic character, since she has always been religious, and many people use religion to justify their homophobia. (Eric is another obvious choice for a homophobic character.) It also would have been far more hurtful to Will, since Caroline isn't just some random cousin. However, I'm very glad that they didn't go that route (because it would have destroyed her character), and I don't really see how her behavior during the possession storyline is the least bit relevant, unless the implication is supposed to be that if you fear the devil, you should also fear gay people.

Now, as for the debate about whether Nick is a necessary aspect of the story or should be removed from it...I can only speak for myself, but I think that Nick was a necessary part of the baby storyline (the one that the writers chose to tell, anyway), and I want him to be removed from the show at the conclusion of the storyline (or, at the very least, be removed from Will and Sonny's orbit and be shunned for his homophobic views -- seriously, if the writers don't eventually let characters like Julie, Maggie, Hope, Caroline, and Victor realize that Nick is a homophobe and call him out on it, I'm going to be pissed).

I don't think that it is necessary for homophobia to always be a part of Will and Sonny's storyline. It's already been a part of their story for the better part of the past year. There are plenty of other good, juicy, dramatic storylines that the writers could give to Will and Sonny that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homophobia. That's why Thursday's episode was so refreshing.
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kay
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Kay

Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 06:49 AM
I haven't had time to read this thread, but aside from the mention of He Whom I Would Have Preferred to Go One Day Without Thinking About in a Will and Sonny Episode (and it really was completely unnecessary to mention him -- they could have easily removed his name from the reference to the fight, or removed the reference to the fight completely), I thought this was a perfect episode for Will and Sonny, and it was easily the best episode of the week.

The only thing that could have possibly made it better would have been a love scene at the end. I hope that we start seeing some more love scenes in the near future (ones that aren't interrupted with more bad news for Will and Sonny, thanks), and more scenes that have nothing to do with the homophobic jerk.
I totally agree.
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kay
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Kay

Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 08:07 PM
Will and Sonny have already dealt with varying degrees of homophobia plenty of times. We've seen T's homophobia at two different times in their storyline -- first when Sonny arrived in Salem, and again after Will came out of the closet. We've seen Lucas' homophobia. And now we're seeing Nick's homophobia, which is worse than any of the aforementioned characters' homophobia was.

In fact, one could argue that homophobia has been a central focus of Will and Sonny's storyline from the moment that they started dating each other. Lucas' homophobia started the same day that Will and Sonny shared their first real kiss, then Lucas and Nick's homophobia was actually being shown at the same time on-screen, so when Lucas finally stopped being a jerk, Nick just immediately took Lucas' place. There was no break in between, and there's no end in sight yet. I don't see how anyone could possibly accuse Days of being too "after-school special", unless they're looking for Days to say that it's okay for someone to be homophobic, which simply isn't going to happen, because it's not okay.

Yes, it would have made perfect sense for Caroline to be the homophobic character, since she has always been religious, and many people use religion to justify their homophobia. (Eric is another obvious choice for a homophobic character.) It also would have been far more hurtful to Will, since Caroline isn't just some random cousin. However, I'm very glad that they didn't go that route (because it would have destroyed her character), and I don't really see how her behavior during the possession storyline is the least bit relevant, unless the implication is supposed to be that if you fear the devil, you should also fear gay people.

Now, as for the debate about whether Nick is a necessary aspect of the story or should be removed from it...I can only speak for myself, but I think that Nick was a necessary part of the baby storyline (the one that the writers chose to tell, anyway), and I want him to be removed from the show at the conclusion of the storyline (or, at the very least, be removed from Will and Sonny's orbit and be shunned for his homophobic views -- seriously, if the writers don't eventually let characters like Julie, Maggie, Hope, Caroline, and Victor realize that Nick is a homophobe and call him out on it, I'm going to be pissed).

I don't think that it is necessary for homophobia to always be a part of Will and Sonny's storyline. It's already been a part of their story for the better part of the past year. There are plenty of other good, juicy, dramatic storylines that the writers could give to Will and Sonny that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homophobia. That's why Thursday's episode was so refreshing.
Great post. I agree with it all.
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nightfan


Sweet and Salty
Apr 19 2013, 11:09 AM
nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 01:57 AM
jb1183
Apr 18 2013, 09:16 PM
What were we supposed to make of Caroline telling Wilson "No PDA!" She played it off like a joke and then made pro-gay comments, but are we supposed to think her Alzheimer's is making her revert to old anti-gay attitudes? I'm confused about what exactly the point of that was.
I'm not happy that it was a joke. There needs to be some drama. Having everyone accept Wilson is not OK and seems artificial even. This isn't the same Caroline praying for the demons to leave Marlena at the penthouse. This Caroline, going to strip clubs and waxing poetic on gay rights, (just as a character, I mean) is not someone recognizable to me.

That. That is the Caroline I remember!! Thank you for validating my opinion on their characterization of her!!
Anytime. The trouble here is that the show's 100 percent gay rights supporting producers want to create a utopia, as opposed to reality. And I'm not mocking or criticizing their real life views, but am concerned that they're translating into destruction of characters. This isn't like Chloe going off the deep end, which is understandable since a hottie like Daniel went for a cold fish like Jennifer over her.
This is dismantling Caroline Brady and turning that rosary-clutching, God fearing woman into someone who says things she would never say. I recall the same thing happened on OLTL and the actress who wouldn't stand for her character becoming Mrs. PFLAG all of a sudden was fired because of it.

Caroline should not be pro-Wilson. She should love Will and not bash the couple, but should not support them, either. And she shouldn't be hated by every character on the show either for doing it. Nor should they to try to change her since Wilson would appreciate the same courtesy of not being changed.

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nightfan


Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 08:07 PM
Will and Sonny have already dealt with varying degrees of homophobia plenty of times. We've seen T's homophobia at two different times in their storyline -- first when Sonny arrived in Salem, and again after Will came out of the closet. We've seen Lucas' homophobia. And now we're seeing Nick's homophobia, which is worse than any of the aforementioned characters' homophobia was.

In fact, one could argue that homophobia has been a central focus of Will and Sonny's storyline from the moment that they started dating each other. Lucas' homophobia started the same day that Will and Sonny shared their first real kiss, then Lucas and Nick's homophobia was actually being shown at the same time on-screen, so when Lucas finally stopped being a jerk, Nick just immediately took Lucas' place. There was no break in between, and there's no end in sight yet. I don't see how anyone could possibly accuse Days of being too "after-school special", unless they're looking for Days to say that it's okay for someone to be homophobic, which simply isn't going to happen, because it's not okay.

Yes, it would have made perfect sense for Caroline to be the homophobic character, since she has always been religious, and many people use religion to justify their homophobia. (Eric is another obvious choice for a homophobic character.) It also would have been far more hurtful to Will, since Caroline isn't just some random cousin. However, I'm very glad that they didn't go that route (because it would have destroyed her character), and I don't really see how her behavior during the possession storyline is the least bit relevant, unless the implication is supposed to be that if you fear the devil, you should also fear gay people.

Now, as for the debate about whether Nick is a necessary aspect of the story or should be removed from it...I can only speak for myself, but I think that Nick was a necessary part of the baby storyline (the one that the writers chose to tell, anyway), and I want him to be removed from the show at the conclusion of the storyline (or, at the very least, be removed from Will and Sonny's orbit and be shunned for his homophobic views -- seriously, if the writers don't eventually let characters like Julie, Maggie, Hope, Caroline, and Victor realize that Nick is a homophobe and call him out on it, I'm going to be pissed).

I don't think that it is necessary for homophobia to always be a part of Will and Sonny's storyline. It's already been a part of their story for the better part of the past year. There are plenty of other good, juicy, dramatic storylines that the writers could give to Will and Sonny that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homophobia. That's why Thursday's episode was so refreshing.
You raise many good points but I disagree with the "h" word being thrown in so much. Yes, homophobia has been a focal point of Wilson's stories, in many cases.

However, Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic; it would just be in her character, and she would love Will just the same and she would stick to her religion. (Because the "h" word is a public relations term, sorry, to turn people away from what they believe. Being religious doesn't make someone afraid of gay people or love them any less. It just means there's a difference of opinion.)

has there been homophobia on the show? yes.
has there been honest portrayals of people who actually stand for something and cling to their faith in the face of something they inherently don't believe in, and not be bashed for it? (Because think of the conflict there; no one's asking Wilson to change their sexual orientation that they can't help, and no one should ask an otherwise loving grandmother to turn away from her deeply rooted faith. If she does, it's not actually faith ... and that's the whole problem with this character rewrite)
Edited by nightfan, Apr 19 2013, 10:20 PM.
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Will&Sonny


nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 10:19 PM
Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic[.]
Yes, it would. There are different degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia. If, for instance, Caroline claimed that she "loved" Will, but believed that being gay was a sin that was ultimately going to result in Will's soul being condemned to hell, that's homophobia. It doesn't suddenly stop being homophobia just because it's hidden behind religious beliefs, just like racism doesn't suddenly stop being racism just because someone prefaces it with, "Some of my best friends are black." I'm sorry if you don't agree with the word, but that's what it is.

Caroline can be deeply religious without being written as a person who takes every single word of the Bible as the gospel. She does not have to believe that being gay is a sin simply because she is religious. She might be choosing to remember another key teaching of the Bible instead -- you know, that one about not judging other people.
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nightfan


Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 10:59 PM
nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 10:19 PM
Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic[.]
Yes, it would. There are different degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia. If, for instance, Caroline claimed that she "loved" Will, but believed that being gay was a sin that was ultimately going to result in Will's soul being condemned to hell, that's homophobia. It doesn't suddenly stop being homophobia just because it's hidden behind religious beliefs, just like racism doesn't suddenly stop being racism just because someone prefaces it with, "Some of my best friends are black." I'm sorry if you don't agree with the word, but that's what it is.

Caroline can be deeply religious without being written as a person who takes every single word of the Bible as the gospel. She does not have to believe that being gay is a sin simply because she is religious. She might be choosing to remember another key teaching of the Bible instead -- you know, that one about not judging other people.
Here's my point: homophobia, the term, is divisive. It is engineered to divide people.

The proof is this quoted post. She has to give up deeply held beliefs to avoid being branded this awful term?

With that said, I believe that the actual term homophobia breaks down into two words: homo and phobia. The latter is an extreme or irrational fear of something.

Loving someone, but not supporting gay rights, is not the same as being terrified of that person or irrationally fearing them.
This term is misused all the time because people who want it to be divisive misuse it deliberately to convince others it's legitimate. I'm not saying that of you - people higher up the food chain, who have agendas do this.

Edited by nightfan, Apr 20 2013, 12:09 AM.
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Will&Sonny


nightfan
Apr 20 2013, 12:08 AM
Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 10:59 PM
nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 10:19 PM
Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic[.]
Yes, it would. There are different degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia. If, for instance, Caroline claimed that she "loved" Will, but believed that being gay was a sin that was ultimately going to result in Will's soul being condemned to hell, that's homophobia. It doesn't suddenly stop being homophobia just because it's hidden behind religious beliefs, just like racism doesn't suddenly stop being racism just because someone prefaces it with, "Some of my best friends are black." I'm sorry if you don't agree with the word, but that's what it is.

Caroline can be deeply religious without being written as a person who takes every single word of the Bible as the gospel. She does not have to believe that being gay is a sin simply because she is religious. She might be choosing to remember another key teaching of the Bible instead -- you know, that one about not judging other people.
Here's my point: homophobia, the term, is divisive. It is engineered to divide people.

The proof is this quoted post. She has to give up deeply held beliefs to avoid being branded this awful term?

With that said, I believe that the actual term homophobia breaks down into two words: homo and phobia. The latter is an extreme or irrational fear of something.

Loving someone, but not supporting gay rights, is not the same as being terrified of that person or irrationally fearing them.
This term is misused all the time because people who want it to be divisive misuse it deliberately to convince others it's legitimate. I'm not saying that of you - people higher up the food chain, who have agendas do this.

Your argument is a matter of semantics.

ho·mo·pho·bia
noun \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Definition of HOMOPHOBIA
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Being against gay rights is discrimination. Therefore, being against gay rights is a demonstration of homophobia. Like it or not, that's the word that has been assigned to that behavior. You don't have to have an extreme or irrational fear of gay people to be a homophobe. As I said before, there are varying degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia (which is an awful term because homophobia is an awful thing -- if people don't want to be labeled as homophobes, the solution is to stop being homophobes).

Deeply held religious beliefs do not give people the right to discriminate against others. Caroline is smart enough to understand that her belief in a higher power isn't hinging on the number of gay people she discriminates against on a daily basis. Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that one of Caroline's "deeply held beliefs" was that being gay was wrong. People are simply making that leap because Caroline has historically been written as a deeply religious person, and many religious people believe that it's wrong to be gay, but that logic is just as faulty as labeling all Muslims as terrorists simply because some terrorists are Muslims. Caroline might have always dismissed that particular "teaching" of the Bible, just like she's probably dismissed other "teachings", such as the one about killing people who dare to do work on a Sunday, or the one about the sin of eating pork, or the one about women being forbidden to talk during church. Oh, what about that whole thing about cheating on a spouse? She apparently glossed right over that one.

Supporting gay rights is not an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Saying, "I no longer believe in God" would be an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Anything less than that is simply an expression of free will, common sense, and the ability to think for herself.
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nightfan


Will&Sonny
Apr 20 2013, 02:33 AM
nightfan
Apr 20 2013, 12:08 AM
Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 10:59 PM
nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 10:19 PM
Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic[.]
Yes, it would. There are different degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia. If, for instance, Caroline claimed that she "loved" Will, but believed that being gay was a sin that was ultimately going to result in Will's soul being condemned to hell, that's homophobia. It doesn't suddenly stop being homophobia just because it's hidden behind religious beliefs, just like racism doesn't suddenly stop being racism just because someone prefaces it with, "Some of my best friends are black." I'm sorry if you don't agree with the word, but that's what it is.

Caroline can be deeply religious without being written as a person who takes every single word of the Bible as the gospel. She does not have to believe that being gay is a sin simply because she is religious. She might be choosing to remember another key teaching of the Bible instead -- you know, that one about not judging other people.
Here's my point: homophobia, the term, is divisive. It is engineered to divide people.

The proof is this quoted post. She has to give up deeply held beliefs to avoid being branded this awful term?

With that said, I believe that the actual term homophobia breaks down into two words: homo and phobia. The latter is an extreme or irrational fear of something.

Loving someone, but not supporting gay rights, is not the same as being terrified of that person or irrationally fearing them.
This term is misused all the time because people who want it to be divisive misuse it deliberately to convince others it's legitimate. I'm not saying that of you - people higher up the food chain, who have agendas do this.

Your argument is a matter of semantics.

ho·mo·pho·bia
noun \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Definition of HOMOPHOBIA
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Being against gay rights is discrimination. Therefore, being against gay rights is a demonstration of homophobia. Like it or not, that's the word that has been assigned to that behavior. You don't have to have an extreme or irrational fear of gay people to be a homophobe. As I said before, there are varying degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia (which is an awful term because homophobia is an awful thing -- if people don't want to be labeled as homophobes, the solution is to stop being homophobes).

Deeply held religious beliefs do not give people the right to discriminate against others. Caroline is smart enough to understand that her belief in a higher power isn't hinging on the number of gay people she discriminates against on a daily basis. Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that one of Caroline's "deeply held beliefs" was that being gay was wrong. People are simply making that leap because Caroline has historically been written as a deeply religious person, and many religious people believe that it's wrong to be gay, but that logic is just as faulty as labeling all Muslims as terrorists simply because some terrorists are Muslims. Caroline might have always dismissed that particular "teaching" of the Bible, just like she's probably dismissed other "teachings", such as the one about killing people who dare to do work on a Sunday, or the one about the sin of eating pork, or the one about women being forbidden to talk during church. Oh, what about that whole thing about cheating on a spouse? She apparently glossed right over that one.

Supporting gay rights is not an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Saying, "I no longer believe in God" would be an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Anything less than that is simply an expression of free will, common sense, and the ability to think for herself.
Well,faith requires not thinking for yourself. I don't want to bring real-world issues at play or offend your beliefs. It just doesn't seem characteristic for a rosary-toting woman like Caroline -really hardcore Catholics, who typically have faith like a child - to give up on core beliefs. As someone with clergy in the family, trust me, this is one of those core beliefs (marriage representing holy trinity > marriage for procreation, etc.)

Getting back to the fictitious world, movies do a better job. They treat the disagreeing relative as the aunt to avoid, fake being straight for while she's in town, or simply civilly ignore her.
I'm not seeing the PSA and homophobic terms thrown about as much. That's probably good, because regardless of semantics, what's undeniable is that homophobia is a divisive term. And that means it's no different (as hard as it is to imagine) than anti-gay slurs. Because people with faith like a child will not change their views or don't feel they can or should.

My relatives won't, and just because they won't, especially my clergy relatives, I do not believe they should be branded ambiguous terms that are divisive, especially since they are very kind and loving and not outright judgmental or vocal about it.

And that kind of character isn't being portrayed on NBC daytime.
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