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Thursday, April 18th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Apr 18 2013, 08:50 AM (7,706 Views)
nightfan


Will&Sonny
Apr 20 2013, 02:33 AM
nightfan
Apr 20 2013, 12:08 AM
Will&Sonny
Apr 19 2013, 10:59 PM
nightfan
Apr 19 2013, 10:19 PM
Caroline not being pro-gay rights would not make her homophobic[.]
Yes, it would. There are different degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia. If, for instance, Caroline claimed that she "loved" Will, but believed that being gay was a sin that was ultimately going to result in Will's soul being condemned to hell, that's homophobia. It doesn't suddenly stop being homophobia just because it's hidden behind religious beliefs, just like racism doesn't suddenly stop being racism just because someone prefaces it with, "Some of my best friends are black." I'm sorry if you don't agree with the word, but that's what it is.

Caroline can be deeply religious without being written as a person who takes every single word of the Bible as the gospel. She does not have to believe that being gay is a sin simply because she is religious. She might be choosing to remember another key teaching of the Bible instead -- you know, that one about not judging other people.
Here's my point: homophobia, the term, is divisive. It is engineered to divide people.

The proof is this quoted post. She has to give up deeply held beliefs to avoid being branded this awful term?

With that said, I believe that the actual term homophobia breaks down into two words: homo and phobia. The latter is an extreme or irrational fear of something.

Loving someone, but not supporting gay rights, is not the same as being terrified of that person or irrationally fearing them.
This term is misused all the time because people who want it to be divisive misuse it deliberately to convince others it's legitimate. I'm not saying that of you - people higher up the food chain, who have agendas do this.

Your argument is a matter of semantics.

ho·mo·pho·bia
noun \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Definition of HOMOPHOBIA
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Being against gay rights is discrimination. Therefore, being against gay rights is a demonstration of homophobia. Like it or not, that's the word that has been assigned to that behavior. You don't have to have an extreme or irrational fear of gay people to be a homophobe. As I said before, there are varying degrees of homophobia, but it's all still homophobia (which is an awful term because homophobia is an awful thing -- if people don't want to be labeled as homophobes, the solution is to stop being homophobes).

Deeply held religious beliefs do not give people the right to discriminate against others. Caroline is smart enough to understand that her belief in a higher power isn't hinging on the number of gay people she discriminates against on a daily basis. Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that one of Caroline's "deeply held beliefs" was that being gay was wrong. People are simply making that leap because Caroline has historically been written as a deeply religious person, and many religious people believe that it's wrong to be gay, but that logic is just as faulty as labeling all Muslims as terrorists simply because some terrorists are Muslims. Caroline might have always dismissed that particular "teaching" of the Bible, just like she's probably dismissed other "teachings", such as the one about killing people who dare to do work on a Sunday, or the one about the sin of eating pork, or the one about women being forbidden to talk during church. Oh, what about that whole thing about cheating on a spouse? She apparently glossed right over that one.

Supporting gay rights is not an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Saying, "I no longer believe in God" would be an indication that Caroline has given up her deeply held religious beliefs. Anything less than that is simply an expression of free will, common sense, and the ability to think for herself.
Well,faith requires not thinking for yourself. I don't want to bring real-world issues at play or offend your beliefs. It just doesn't seem characteristic for a rosary-toting woman like Caroline -really hardcore Catholics, who typically have faith like a child - to give up on core beliefs. As someone with clergy in the family, trust me, this is one of those core beliefs (marriage representing holy trinity > marriage for procreation, etc.)

Getting back to the fictitious world, movies do a better job. They treat the disagreeing relative as the aunt to avoid, fake being straight for while she's in town, or simply civilly ignore her.
I'm not seeing the PSA and homophobic terms thrown about as much. That's probably good, because regardless of semantics, what's undeniable is that homophobia is a divisive term. And that means it's no different (as hard as it is to imagine) than anti-gay slurs. Because people with faith like a child will not change their views or don't feel they can or should.

My relatives won't, and just because they won't, especially my clergy relatives, I do not believe they should be branded ambiguous terms that are divisive, especially since they are very kind and loving and not outright judgmental or vocal about it.

And that kind of character isn't being portrayed on NBC daytime.
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La_Laa


Wilson scenes were My Everything! The boys were sooo adorable. I miss scenes like these, where is just something only about them. It seemed like a Christmas miracle :wub:
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