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Monday May 20th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: May 20 2013, 08:40 AM (19,703 Views)
six
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elci525
May 21 2013, 11:41 AM
Quote:
 
I understand why Lucas was hesitant to build a relationship with the person who caused so much pain, but I think that if he had that many conflicting feelings about it, he should have just walked away.

I do appreciate your take. Your posts are always well thought out and it's good to see you posting again.


Thanks six - I thought y'all needed a break from my inane bantering.

And I just don't see it that way at all. Conflicted feelings are what make these relationships interesting and dynamic, for my tastes. Conflicted feelings are what indicate fight and interest, imo. I want conflict. I want kicking and screaming. I want a push and pull that is created by one's sense of what is logical and what should be and what one wants. I want conflict that makes sense to a character and to a character history. I want conflict that is the product of longing and the product of scarring. It works for me and it excites me and it creates fucked up relationships and characters thickened with dimension and reality. Why would Lucas walk away because he was conflicted? Where is the drama there? Where is the growth? Where is the evolution? Where would any of the more interesting relationships and characters be without conflicted feelings? I don't personally buy that he should have walked away because he was conflicted. Quite the opposite.

Quote:
 
but the seeds that were sown in that story lead us to the Sami who was compatible with Rafe

No - there was never such a Sami. This is not Lumi or Lucas's doing. There was never such a Sami.

And I don't think growth needs to mean becoming Tom and Alice Horton either. But I also dont think every version of Sami and every stage should be the same. I didn't think Sami lost what made her unique during Lumi until she 2007ish when she became dithering and fearful of EJ.

Quote:
 
but no Lumi would ever admit it cause of their bias

Excuse me? This is just false and way over-generalized simplification, imo. Sorry. And it wasn't a matter of the scenes being "good" or not. It was a about a parallel between characters and relationships that was drawn by some and not by others and the differences motivation those impressions. It's about having a dialogue, not about bias.
Oh I love conflicted relationships as much as the next person but of course everyone likes different sorts of conflict. I personally feel that he made his conflict her problem, instead of struggling with it himself, which would have been more compelling. And IMO, it hurt her as a character. I know you don't feel that way, but that's the reason I wish they'd never gone down that road.

It took me HOURS to finally get a chance to finish typing and submit this post, but I did it. I feel so accomplished.
Edited by six, May 21 2013, 01:51 PM.
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six
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Partnersincrime
May 21 2013, 11:59 AM
the seeds for sami that were sown slowly in that story lead us to the Sami who was compatible with Rafe were on 2007 when sami became so forgiven to ej and the vendetta crap
That's when she made her first big change, but that's not when she decided to change. That would be 2003/2004. Remember Lucas's proposal from Hell? That helped get us to where we landed in 2009.
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elci525
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It was their problem, not just his. They both had trust issues (if not with another person then just generally in something or within themselves) and understanding what love meant issues, how to give and receive it, etc. It did seem like Sami had to "prove" herself to Lucas a lot which I didn't always love, but he had to prove himself to her as well. Hence moments like the green wedding where we have a familiar ohmygod it's over moment, and Lucas doesn't give two shits about it. It was plenty compelling for me. And it didn't ruin Sami's character or set her up for Rafedom imo. Nothing set her up for Rafedom.
Edited by elci525, May 21 2013, 02:23 PM.
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Hamilton
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Bringing Bill back into Kate's life would be so much more interesting than Rafe as her 'soul saver' baloney. :huh: There certainly wasn't any build up to a monumental moment of self discovery for Kate that I noticed. Sexual romps with break-up/make-ups to continue the focus of sexual romps doesn't make a story. Having Bill reappear opens a lot of doors not only for Kate and their past history but to tie in Lucas too. I'd also rather see Stefano handle this real past love of Kate's. I want a compelling story and what I see now is not.
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six
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elci525
May 21 2013, 02:19 PM
It was their problem, not just his. They both had trust issues (if not with another person then just generally in something or within themselves) and understanding what love meant issues, how to give and receive it, etc. It did seem like Sami had to "prove" herself to Lucas a lot which I didn't always love, but he had to prove himself to her as well. Hence moments like the green wedding where we have a familiar ohmygod it's over moment, and Lucas doesn't give two shits about it. It was plenty compelling for me. And it didn't ruin Sami's character or set her up for Rafedom imo. Nothing set her up for Rafedom.
The green wedding scene was compelling to me, as well. It's on the (very) short list of my favorite lumi moments, because he finally gave her what I thought she should have. I don't have a problem with characters proving themselves to one another in general. It's just that in my view, Lucas was asking for something that he shouldn't expect and instead of Sami telling him to go find it somewhere else, she started trying to meet his demands, to her detriment. While Lucas owed Sami his trust if he was going to be with her. But then, I fully admit to being biased toward Sami and against Lucas

Much as I disliked safe, I could see why he and the Carrie- wannabe liked each other so much.
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elci525
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It was a trust that was a long time in the making and it was ugly getting there, but I saw it happen. And it was a payoff for me as a long time fan who understood if didn't necessarily love every up and every down. And Lucas never wanted a Carrie wanna-be (in case that is the implication of your post -I am not sure). He just wanted something unSami in the wake of the Stan wedding, and so that was Carrie. Or he wanted a nonSami after every rough break up with her, thinking he needed an opposite. But it never worked. He even said himself he was going mad (in a bad way) with Carrie, it was a calm, safe "love" that never approached what he had with Sami.

I am biased very much against Sami now, but the reason I loved Lumi is that I could see and understand both their points of view very clearly. Lucas pissed me off and Sami pissed me off and Lucas made me ohso happy and Sami made me ohso happy pretty equally. It would have been great for at some point for Lucas to seem to have "betrayed" Sami the way Kate set her up to w/Brandon, and for him to actively work in a more desperate, urgent way to gain her trust. But I felt he took strides in this direction after the resurrected quadrangle was mercifully put to an end again. That "we love harder than anyone I know" speech he gave was one of the best moments from recent Days memory for me.

The Sami that was with Rafe was never the Sami I saw with Lucas. I couldn't love one and detest the other as much as I did were they the same. And there were other intervening events that occurred to shape the Safe romance, or Sami within it, that did not point back to Lucas and Lumi, so I don't trace the trajectory back to him.

I am bowing out here ;)
Edited by elci525, May 21 2013, 03:46 PM.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ LUMI ♥

elci525
May 21 2013, 03:28 PM
It was a trust that was a long time in the making and it was ugly getting there, but I saw it happen. And it was a payoff for me as a long time fan who understood if didn't necessarily love every up and every down. And Lucas never wanted a Carrie wanna-be (in case that is the implication of your post -I am not sure). He just wanted something unSami in the wake of the Stan wedding, and so that was Carrie. Or he wanted a nonSami after every rough break up with her thinking he needed an opposite. But it never worked. He even said himself he was going mad (in a bad way) with Carrie, it was a calm, safe "love" that never approached what he had with Sami.

I am biased very much against Sami now, but the reason I loved Lumi is that I could see and understand both their points of view very clearly. Lucas pissed me off and Sami pissed me off and Lucas made me ohso happy and Sami made me ohso happy pretty equally. It would have been great for at some point for Lucas to seem to have betrayed Sami the way Kate set her up to Brandon and for him to actively work in a more desperate, urgent way to gain her trust. But I felt he took strides in this direction after the resurrected quadrangle was mercifully put to an end again. That "we love harder than anyone I know" speech he gave was one of the best moments from recent Days memory for me.

The Sami that was with Rafe was never the Sami I saw with Lucas. I couldn't love one and detest the other as much as I did were they the same. And there were other intervening events that occurred to shape the Safe romance, or Sami within it, that did not point back to Lucas and Lumi, so I don't trace the trajectory back to him.

I am bowing out here ;)
As much as I hated the quad redux in 2006 it helped cement one thing...that when Sami finally landed Austin and Lucas finally landed Carrie, Lumi ended up wanting, fantasizing, dreaming and longing for one another...that to me was the best part of the entire arc.....after so much trouble, so much trying to get with this person for so long, so many times saying that she wasn't anything like Sami and so many times saying that he was the one person she loved and would always love....Lumi in the end, realized that it was all for nothing...that they wanted one another and nothing could stop that from happening. It was great....in the end.

I fully admit disliking Sami very much now and I have a very hard time wanting Lucas with this version we are seeing on our screens now because the Sami that I remember when she said she loved, you BELIEVED it...because she said it to one person at a time. She meant it, even if you knew she was obsessed and cray in her attempts to land the guy. But you never questioned her love for that one person. Nowadays...ILY's come out of her mouth as easily as her changing panties. I no longer belive that Sami loves any of these men after the atrocious writing for her particularly in the last year and putting her Ej now won't convince of her love for anyone.....in the end I think my view has forever changed on Sami and unfortunately I know that Lucas won't ever get a story away from her.....and so we see him be back burned with nothing to do and no screen time......I just wish that they would give Lucas, John's version of Izzy B...but that won't ever happen, as we can see they'd give it to Rafe before they give it to Lucas....
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nightfan


Whoa! Just watched Monday's episode.
So Jensen was revealed to be the true rapist. When Hope understood what Vargas meant by how Jensen would beat hte crap out of Nick "before" and "after," she (and I) became very worried for Nick.
Jensen is a loose canon. This is the story that clearly will redeem Nick, redeem Vargas and provide a hell of a lot of action-packed drama along the way. Even with cheap sets, this story works!
So see, Days? It's possible to actually have drama on a low budget.
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SoapGal1
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Matt
May 21 2013, 11:57 AM
I feel like I'm drowning in quote boxes. Are we having a contest & no one told me? If we are, poor Gramps has no chance in hell of winning.
Gramps nor Soapy.

I quit reading after two paragraphs.

ADSBD- Attention Deficit Soap Board Disorder

Meanwhile, I'm so loving the Lyx dynamic.

They should have a shipper board, tag line, & a banner.

Six, get on that, will ya?
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
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SoapGal1
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Matt
May 21 2013, 11:12 PM
Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
Tag line down.

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JamaicanBeauty7
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I am READY!!

Matt
May 21 2013, 11:12 PM
Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
I'm going to have Lil Kim's song stuck in my head all night now. :facepalm:
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Kevc1980
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This was my first full episode in I don't know how long and I'm looking forward to watching today's episode online tomorrow night. That was one great cliffhanger with Gabi going into labor. This show is firing on all cylinders right now.

Gotta add that Vargas and Hope do have a lot of chemistry. I'm just not sure if the majority of fans will ever accept Hope with someone that isn't Bo.
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Supergirlx2
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"I love working with Kristian. She's wonderful and fantastic." ~ DC

Kevc1980
May 22 2013, 01:07 AM
This was my first full episode in I don't know how long and I'm looking forward to watching today's episode online tomorrow night. That was one great cliffhanger with Gabi going into labor. This show is firing on all cylinders right now.

Gotta add that Vargas and Hope do have a lot of chemistry. I'm just not sure if the majority of fans will ever accept Hope with someone that isn't Bo.
you'd be surprised how many of my Bope friends are more than open to Hope exploring other romantic partners. of course, the one thing that has to happen first is Bo "dying" or being "presumed dead", since it would be OOC for her to cheat on Bo simply because he isn't around.
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Oak Alley
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I do enjoy seeing Abby acting all jealous, taking the tickets off from the counter when she thought that the barrista gir,l would be the one going with Chad to the amusement park, lol.
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lysie
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SoapGal1
May 21 2013, 11:26 PM
Matt
May 21 2013, 11:12 PM
Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
Tag line down.

You people are ridiculous.
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S loves EJ


elci525
May 21 2013, 03:34 AM
S loves EJ
May 21 2013, 02:57 AM
concerned
May 20 2013, 05:11 PM
tomsawyer
May 20 2013, 12:58 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Apparently everytime someone complained that Lucas didn't really love the real her because he shouted at her.
And Rafe didn't love the real her because he shouted her.
But not now.
I donīt think people mean that Lucas didnīt love the real Sami because he shouted at her, but because he got angry when she did something bad and didnīt seemed to like that side of her. Ejamiīs fight on monday wasnīt about anything bad that Sami had done.

I don't see it that way. What Sami DID was doubt EJ and that is what the fight was about. When Lucas would get angry at Sami a lot of the times it was because of some lie she told that hurt him, although the intent was indirect of course. And those moments were rooted in a distrust that existed in the relationship because of the previous years they spent scheming and hurting each other. It never for me had anything to do with a SIDE of Sami, but a knee-jerk reaction to what came before. And if I am going to rationalize the ungraying of Lucas during the Lumi times, I can rationalize that in order to make a romantic relationship work, and given the role models he had, Lucas felt such a relationship had to be devoid of any lies, any of the familiar Sami-like behavior that cause so much havoc in their teen/early adult years. That was a sign of immaturity and fear in the relationship. Which was great - I loved the idea of such raw emotions and nerves being at stake. That's always how I saw it.

So I didn't see a significant difference with the Ejami fight yesterday. EJ (with good reason) talked down, infantilized and dismissed Sami for her huffing and puffing, crazy yelling and, well, child-like behavior. This is what she DID, and that it what he reacted to. The fight touched on fundamental problems in the relationship so I can see how Ejami fans like that. For sure. But for me I go, OK, seen it before. That it wasn't about EJ being angry because Sami tracked in muddy footprints or broke a vase or whatever was inconsequential to me. It was a fight about specific character traits, tendencies, behaviors (even of the thought variety), bruised feelings and fears. That sounds pretty familiar to me.


I always love good drama and fights so I liked it when Lucas walked out on Sami after founding her in bed with Brandon and after founding out about Stan, but I understand Ejami fans argument that Lucas doesnīt like the real Sami because he walks out on her when she does something bad. Anyway when I first got hooked on EJ and Ejami I was bored out of my mind with Soaps after watching soaps for 20 years and had decided to stop watching since I thought that nothing could get me interested again and that I had seen it all Before, but then came EJ who was a unique character that I hadnīt seen Before and I went nuts about him. I watched a couple of years of dool on youtube in a couple of weeks (the EJ scenes anyway I FF Everything else). Ejami also brought something unique to me I hadnīt seen cosplay and chemistry like theirs before, and they had this forbidden love vibe to them.


elci525
May 21 2013, 02:19 PM
It was their problem, not just his. They both had trust issues (if not with another person then just generally in something or within themselves) and understanding what love meant issues, how to give and receive it, etc. It did seem like Sami had to "prove" herself to Lucas a lot which I didn't always love, but he had to prove himself to her as well. Hence moments like the green wedding where we have a familiar ohmygod it's over moment, and Lucas doesn't give two shits about it. It was plenty compelling for me. And it didn't ruin Sami's character or set her up for Rafedom imo. Nothing set her up for Rafedom.


I donīt think making Sami more mature ruined her character alone since I liked the Lumi scenes in 2007 if they had combine more mature but still a villain, but they completly changed her character starting in 2007 with Lumi and then completly with Safe. So I think it set her up for Rafedom but I donīt Think itīs Lucas fault but the writhers. Still i think I liked the more mature Lumi scenes in 2007 because they were a contrast to the epic fights she was having with EJ where she was more bad and in character, but I think if she was acting mature all the time and just with Lucas I would get bored. In other Words if Lumi was together but she was still having epic fights with EJ I might like them, maybe if Lumi were trying to keep johhnny from following in his fathers footsteps might be interesting to me. Anyway I do want Sami to be bad in a mature cunning way not in a childish way like when she took the Money for no good reason, even if I can take childish too if itīs funny like when she jump up on the bad copīs back.
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six
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elci525
May 21 2013, 03:28 PM
It was a trust that was a long time in the making and it was ugly getting there, but I saw it happen. And it was a payoff for me as a long time fan who understood if didn't necessarily love every up and every down. And Lucas never wanted a Carrie wanna-be (in case that is the implication of your post -I am not sure). He just wanted something unSami in the wake of the Stan wedding, and so that was Carrie. Or he wanted a nonSami after every rough break up with her, thinking he needed an opposite. But it never worked. He even said himself he was going mad (in a bad way) with Carrie, it was a calm, safe "love" that never approached what he had with Sami.

I am biased very much against Sami now, but the reason I loved Lumi is that I could see and understand both their points of view very clearly. Lucas pissed me off and Sami pissed me off and Lucas made me ohso happy and Sami made me ohso happy pretty equally. It would have been great for at some point for Lucas to seem to have "betrayed" Sami the way Kate set her up to w/Brandon, and for him to actively work in a more desperate, urgent way to gain her trust. But I felt he took strides in this direction after the resurrected quadrangle was mercifully put to an end again. That "we love harder than anyone I know" speech he gave was one of the best moments from recent Days memory for me.

The Sami that was with Rafe was never the Sami I saw with Lucas. I couldn't love one and detest the other as much as I did were they the same. And there were other intervening events that occurred to shape the Safe romance, or Sami within it, that did not point back to Lucas and Lumi, so I don't trace the trajectory back to him.

I am bowing out here ;)
I know you bowed out, but to clarify - I don't think the Sami who was with Rafe was the same Sami who was with Lucas, either. If she had been, I would have never become an ejami, because I would have started hating her a decade ago. I just feel that she wouldn't have ended up where she did without Lucas helping put her on that path. And I do think that Lucas wanted a Sami who was more like Carrie than like Sami.

And on the other topic, I'm putting in my vote for Sly.
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SoapGal1
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lysie
May 22 2013, 06:51 AM
SoapGal1
May 21 2013, 11:26 PM
Matt
May 21 2013, 11:12 PM
Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
Tag line down.

You people are ridiculous.
You can collectively bite us.

Meanwhile, You're just running from your fate.

Much like someone else did for say.....seven years....

#Lyx
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six
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SoapGal1
May 22 2013, 08:05 AM
lysie
May 22 2013, 06:51 AM
SoapGal1
May 21 2013, 11:26 PM
Matt
May 21 2013, 11:12 PM
Ahem...

"How many Lyx does it take...?"
Tag line down.

You people are ridiculous.
You can collectively bite us.

Meanwhile, You're just running from your fate.

Much like someone else did for say.....seven years....

#Lyx
I'm not getting involved in the quadrangle you all have going. Plus, I'm partial to people who like the truth.
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