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Tuesday September 3rd Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Sep 3 2013, 01:36 AM (11,305 Views)
KweenBoda
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So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
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Keith
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KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
Nicole isn't certifiable.
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Hamilton
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I really enjoyed Gabi and Sonny's argument and Gabi storming off to Nick and ending up sleeping with him. The actions felt so right for all the characters. Gabi's points about being alone and having the needs she vehemently expressed were what I would expect from a young single mother in her situation. Of course she's going to feel entitled to make her own decisions without Sonny raining his disapproval upon her. Her "I'll do what I want" attitude was so age appropriate. I liked that immediately after her fight she went running to Nick complaining while looking for pats on the back and some loving. It all fit.
I also wasn't surprised by Sonny coming down on Gabi with his father-like stance of 'look what you've done and how could you?!' He's the older one and he knows enough of the world to distrust Nick having a quick turnaround. Great moments played out today.

I'm fine with Caroline butting in with her disapproval of Nick and how he's handled his remorse with her. She felt she was owed an apology having giving him a chance and she hasn't seen it. Good for her for speaking up and calling him on it.

I like Nick back in the swing of things and using his intelligent persuasion to manipulate Gabi into what he ultimately wants for himself. He's smart and needy and sees an opportunity for an in. I agree with other posters who don't want Nick turned into cartoon crazy obsessive boy just to feed story. I need to see his path, his struggle.

I love Nicole offering to team up with Marlena and the look on Marlena's face when she said she'd give it consideration. You just know it's going to get good from this point on and I was pleased to feel bubbling up excitement that Kristen is going to go down for her deeds in a most delightful way.

Brady is an idiot pure and simple. He's being written as that and to that he will stay until this all plays out. I don't have any other expectations for him. So, if he is shown seeking out Eric to not only accept Kristen but counsel them in Pre-cana and joyfully bring about their marriage while shrugging off her history with the family I'm just going to roll with it. I get that anything else would spoil the drama set to come and resigned myself that Brady's idiocy is the factor they'll use in pulling it off.




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Keith
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Yeah, I didn't see Caroline fighting Will's battle for him. I saw her having her own piece to say because of having helped Nick out when he first got out to prison and feeling betrayed.

Gabi was so petulant I couldn't be on her side. I get where she is coming from and it was totally age appropriate. It totally screamed you are way too young and immature to be a mom akin to way too many reality TV shows. I think she's only beginning to realize that amount of sacrifice a new mother, especially a single one, has to be willing to make. And she doesn't like it.

Loving Marlena and Nicole.

Show seems to be picking up again. Good.
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lachelle73


Keith
Sep 3 2013, 04:58 PM
Can someone explain to me why Will would even serve time if the truth came out? The show is obviously playing it up like he would, but it makes no sense. Jess went into this in a thread yesterday, and I thought I was the only person who'd been thinking about it. Lucas served the time, wrongfully or not. The victim has no desire to press charges and he knows about the lie. Will was a minor at the time. And the way some are comparing it to Gabi's crime are ridiculous. Gabi wasn't a kid when she lit the proverbial fuse that was her fake stalker Andrew. While she didn't directly kill Jack or Madison, she put it in motion. There's been no recompense for that crime, especially since Andrew died. I don't see Sonny's hypocrisy at all. There's a difference between trying to control Gabi's actions and wanting her to give any thought or consideration to Will when it comes to Nick. She's acting like she is surprised and its bullshit.
Agreed I didn't see Sonny as controlling either. Plus why would Gabi want to get involved with him again after what he did to her. He used her to make a fantasy of his come true he disappeared after the baby was born and she seems like she is using her to tell her she is beautiful and for sex she is wrong on so many levels herself and Sonny told her he doesn't care what she does but having Nick in their house after everything he did to them all 4 of them is wrong. The way Nick treated Will/Sonny and his family his own family was wrong and they are just suppose to forgive and forget what he did. Nick hasn't changed and Gabi is going to have to find out the hard way. I hated the way she treated Sonny and what she said to him but I have a feeling Sonny or Nick is going to tell Will the truth about Gabi. She is just as manipulative as Nick and I think people are going to start seeing that more and more. I wanted Sonny to tell her off more he was not being nasty to her or telling her what to do he was telling her how he felt about the situation and she is the one who got nasty. Sonny let her go and have her fun with Nick she will find out soon enough and then who is she going to call for help Will/Sonny just like before. Sonny should have told her to get out how can she use AG like that against Sonny and wait til Will finds out that Gabi is trying to come between him and Sonny she is going to be the one out in the cold and I can't wait to see it. :cheer: Team Sonny all the way. :hug:
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S loves EJ


Keith
Sep 4 2013, 09:13 AM
KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
Nicole isn't certifiable.

I donīt think Nicoleīs crimes surpasses Kristenīs, she hasnīt raped a priest, plus Nicole got a conscience which Kristen donīt. Nicole has grown up from before she wasnīt the motherly typ when she was younger but now she would make a great mom.
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lachelle73


Sweet and Salty
Sep 3 2013, 11:03 PM
Pookie
Sep 3 2013, 08:56 PM
badaddiction
Sep 3 2013, 08:52 PM
Pookie
Sep 3 2013, 08:36 PM
You know what, if Gabi was talking about ANYONE ELSE, I would side with her in this argument. But we're talking Nick "Cuckoo for Coco Puffs" Fallon here. He's obsessive, manipulative and controlling. Saying you're "sorry" doesn't mean that someone has changed. Nor does it wipe the slate clean. And just because Will, Sonny and others mercifully decided not to pile on Nick after their joint harrowing experience with Jensen and the shocking revelations, doesn't mean that people currently having a problem with Nick being around Arianna is "out of no where".

Will, Sonny and others decided to give Nick time to come to terms with what had happened and get help; but Nick CLEARLY HASN'T. Maggie has already been on him about not getting any therapy to deal with his issues. Nick is back to pretending everything is fine and he's slipping back into his cray-cray habits. He's already pulling Gabi's strings. I'd feel sorry for her; but I've decided she gets off on the idea that Nick is obsessed with her. Usually the she's the crazy, obsessive one. Two fucked up peas in pod they are!

Sonny might be going out of bounds but Will is not. Sonny is just saying to Gabi what Will just got done telling Nick. They're on the same page.

And I still maintain that the crimes Nick and Gabi committed were WAY WORSE than anything Will and Sonny ever did. Especially since their crimes were recent and in Nick's case, still ongoing. Will was a minor and has kept his nose clean since. Nick, on the other hand, is back sliding again and at the rate he's going he will either be dead or in jail by this time next year and if Gabi doesn't buy a clue, she'll be right there with him.
Now, while I agree that Sonny's recent foray into crime doesn't compare to Nabi's, in no way will I agree that Will's crimes doesn't. The boy blackmailed EJ, aided and abetted the attempted cover up of his mother's attempted murder of EJ. He played a part in the death of Adrianna Sr. He helped to rig an election. I'm sure there's more. If you really look at it paper IMO, Will's crimes far outweigh Gabi's.
OK. You know the history more than I do. BUT, Will is still Arianna's FATHER, and Gabi should take his opinions on Nick around THEIR daughter under consideration. The only issue I see is that the argument came from Sonny today, and that's only because Will didn't get a chance to talk to her first. Because we all know he would have said the SAME THING Sonny did. Sonny may have overstepped his bounds today, but Gabi is acting like a petulant child.
This, this, THIS!
Gabi was acting a little childish yes everyone needs a little time for themselves but when you have children is not about you anymore its about them and what they need. Sonny was right they all are making sacrifices and Gabi needs to quit whining. She was a mess I want someone to tell me I'm beautiful, she misses sex ok that's fine. But the 20 mins on treadmill and about getting a job I was thinking so get a job. Sonny is the only one who is working and Will when he helps out at the club. They all are making sacrifices but I get why Will/Sonny don't want Nick around the baby he did try to take her away from Will and the way he treated them. I don't remember Will or Sonny saying they forgive Nick for what he did. Will said he understood after he found out what happened to him but I don't remember him saying he forgives him. Forgiving and forgetting are two different things. Plus Will was right what happened to Nick in prison was terrible but the way Nick treated Will and Sonny was terrible also.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

S loves EJ
Sep 4 2013, 10:50 AM
Keith
Sep 4 2013, 09:13 AM
KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
Nicole isn't certifiable.

I donīt think Nicoleīs crimes surpasses Kristenīs, she hasnīt raped a priest, plus Nicole got a conscience which Kristen donīt. Nicole has grown up from before she wasnīt the motherly typ when she was younger but now she would make a great mom.
Besides, hypocrisy is well-known on this show, if we want to go that route. There are lots of cases where someone is judging someone else, when 10 years and 50 writers ago, the criticizing character was doing bad stuff, too. Characters get redeemed, characters get re-written, and as we know, new writers cannot keep things consistent to save their souls....
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concerned
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Come on Father Eric you can do it.
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concerned
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ladyofthelake
Sep 4 2013, 11:35 AM
S loves EJ
Sep 4 2013, 10:50 AM
Keith
Sep 4 2013, 09:13 AM
KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
Nicole isn't certifiable.

I donīt think Nicoleīs crimes surpasses Kristenīs, she hasnīt raped a priest, plus Nicole got a conscience which Kristen donīt. Nicole has grown up from before she wasnīt the motherly typ when she was younger but now she would make a great mom.
Besides, hypocrisy is well-known on this show, if we want to go that route. There are lots of cases where someone is judging someone else, when 10 years and 50 writers ago, the criticizing character was doing bad stuff, too. Characters get redeemed, characters get re-written, and as we know, new writers cannot keep things consistent to save their souls....
I'd like to see a list, and a time analysis ie in x years on the show Kristin did this vs x years on the show Nicole did this.

I tend to believe that a lot of Nicole's crimes seem to have extenuating circumstances (ie Victor kind of deserved to be killed) ( Sami pretty much deserved every assault/cat fight) ( EJ deserved to be blackmailed when she knew he was Sydney's kidnapper) (Vivian deserved to be left in the Sarcophagus)(but maybe I am just biased) and I didn't see a lot of Kristin's first run so maybe her earlier crimes did too.
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Ophelia
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Many of Nicole's messes come from the combination of her background of abuse, crippling insecurities, and desperate struggle to find love while believing she doesn't really deserve it. She's her own worst enemy a good portion of the time.
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MissLola
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KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
I do think it's a bit hypocritical. But it does not bother me half as much as her JJ tirade or Dannifer pimping. :x
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Panda Panda
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concerned
Sep 4 2013, 05:11 PM
ladyofthelake
Sep 4 2013, 11:35 AM
S loves EJ
Sep 4 2013, 10:50 AM
Keith
Sep 4 2013, 09:13 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

I donīt think Nicoleīs crimes surpasses Kristenīs, she hasnīt raped a priest, plus Nicole got a conscience which Kristen donīt. Nicole has grown up from before she wasnīt the motherly typ when she was younger but now she would make a great mom.
Besides, hypocrisy is well-known on this show, if we want to go that route. There are lots of cases where someone is judging someone else, when 10 years and 50 writers ago, the criticizing character was doing bad stuff, too. Characters get redeemed, characters get re-written, and as we know, new writers cannot keep things consistent to save their souls....
I'd like to see a list, and a time analysis ie in x years on the show Kristin did this vs x years on the show Nicole did this.

I tend to believe that a lot of Nicole's crimes seem to have extenuating circumstances (ie Victor kind of deserved to be killed) ( Sami pretty much deserved every assault/cat fight) ( EJ deserved to be blackmailed when she knew he was Sydney's kidnapper) (Vivian deserved to be left in the Sarcophagus)(but maybe I am just biased) and I didn't see a lot of Kristin's first run so maybe her earlier crimes did too.
Kristen "lost" Tony*, found out her & Peter's mother was alive, "lost" Peter & her mother, realized that the man she loved and was going to spend the rest of her life with was blatantly in love with another woman - a woman she at one point called a friend, lost her and John's baby, was told she couldn't have anymore kids, and through sheer desperation to keep John she lied about being pregnant and hired (well technically Stefano hired susan) another woman to carry her & John's "child". All of this happened in a really close time period. Maybe around 2-3 months** before she was forced(eh) to hide her fake pregnancy from John.

In the beginning the situations that led to Kristen's change of personality and eventual mental and emotional breakdown all made sense but after that everything about her s/l was made too cartoonish to take seriously.

There was a mini redux of this s/l for Nicole's initial baby story where Nicole lost her baby and in order to hang on to EJ she faked her pregnancy and sought out a pregnant woman (Mia, ugh) to replace her lost child with woman's unborn one. It was tragic, it was more than a little heartbreaking, but most of all it wasn't treated like a Saturday morning cartoon or cheesy made-for-tv 007 movie AND Nicole was able to get redemption. Kristen was just hung out to dry they kept making her crazier and crazier silently erasing the fact the she was a "good girl" heroine on the show for 3 years prior to losing her kid and John. Despite all of the over the top hijinks, Kristen did have a solid reason for her meltdown.

Now I'm not saying Kristen shouldn't be held accountable for her actions at the time because her life turned to sh!t right before her eyes; because she's definitely responsible for lying and hurting other people (sometimes helping other people hurt someone i.e. Peter vs Laura) but if someone were to compare Kristen's actions and the reason for them with another persons' intentions behind their crime then I think it's obvious that, while she's not exactly an angel, Kristen's not the worst offender gracing the streets of Salem.



*Tony's "death" was actually a bit earlier than everything else but it was his death that led to the trial, J&M, and Rachel Blake.

**I'm sure Jason47 or Kenny can correct any timeline mistakes made.
Edited by Panda Panda, Sep 4 2013, 06:07 PM.
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BeeBee
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PatNS
Sep 3 2013, 08:56 AM
Cute picture!

just wanted to let you know I won't be writing up recaps this week as we're having a garage sale Thursday and Friday. I'll start posting them again on Monday, the 9th.
Good Luck!
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Laufeyson
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And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
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Rosebud
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concerned
Sep 4 2013, 05:11 PM
ladyofthelake
Sep 4 2013, 11:35 AM
S loves EJ
Sep 4 2013, 10:50 AM
Keith
Sep 4 2013, 09:13 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

I donīt think Nicoleīs crimes surpasses Kristenīs, she hasnīt raped a priest, plus Nicole got a conscience which Kristen donīt. Nicole has grown up from before she wasnīt the motherly typ when she was younger but now she would make a great mom.
Besides, hypocrisy is well-known on this show, if we want to go that route. There are lots of cases where someone is judging someone else, when 10 years and 50 writers ago, the criticizing character was doing bad stuff, too. Characters get redeemed, characters get re-written, and as we know, new writers cannot keep things consistent to save their souls....
I'd like to see a list, and a time analysis ie in x years on the show Kristin did this vs x years on the show Nicole did this.

I tend to believe that a lot of Nicole's crimes seem to have extenuating circumstances (ie Victor kind of deserved to be killed) ( Sami pretty much deserved every assault/cat fight) ( EJ deserved to be blackmailed when she knew he was Sydney's kidnapper) (Vivian deserved to be left in the Sarcophagus)(but maybe I am just biased) and I didn't see a lot of Kristin's first run so maybe her earlier crimes did too.
They didn't. The choices she made were purely selfish. Nobody did anything to her to cause her to make the horribly selfish decisions she made. Sure she lost her baby, and sure she knew John loved Marlena, but John was committed to her and she could have just told him she lost the baby. She could have walked away and kept her digbity. John should have been honest with her and with Marlena, and he stayed with Kristen because he couldn't have Marlena, so in some ways he was culpable. But Kristen began scheming the minute she saw that there were still strong feelings btw John and Marlena.
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BeeBee
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kay
Sep 3 2013, 08:13 PM
Sweet and Salty
Sep 3 2013, 01:43 PM
I'm sorry, but Gabi is so into herself. I'm with Sonny on this.
I agree. I think Sonny needs to tell Will everything including Gabby sleeping with Nick and let Will deal with Gabby. He has a right to know.
If Will needs to know about Gabi then Gabi should be told that Will attempted to murder EJ,blackmail EJ,and stole information from Abe's computer to help EJ as well as destroy evidence in his mother's murder case.Gabi was about eighteen when the Andrew thing happened which may have made her an adult legally but she was only a few years older than Will when Will intentionally attempted to murder EJ.
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The Scorpion
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wrong thread:)
Edited by The Scorpion, Sep 5 2013, 05:01 AM.
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The Scorpion
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KweenBoda
Sep 4 2013, 09:09 AM
So tired of Nicole's tirade against Kristen. Her list of crimes far surpass, Kristen's!
Yes I agree but hypokrite is something that many characters are in this show and it's not very entertaining to watch.
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Yoryla
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Laufeyson
Sep 4 2013, 09:41 PM
And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
I disagree. I'm sorry to say, but if Kristen was redeemed, there would be no point to her. IMO she, even though started out as a heroine, is meant to be a grey character. If she were redeemed and "sainted", over time she would end up on the same train as Sami, Jennifer as someone disinteresting and someone who comes off as a hypocrite.

There are just some characters that are meant to be bitches, grey characters or villains. That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in seeing Nicole in the rectory much longer. We got the point already, she has been redeemed for lying about the baby and trying to break up horrible Dannifer. Now it's time to get back into the swing of things, and move on to bigger and better things, like choosing on which Mansion she is going to move into next. If Eric wants to come with her, it's fine, but the terms should be hers, not his.
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