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Tuesday September 3rd Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Sep 3 2013, 01:36 AM (11,514 Views)
Laufeyson
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Yoryla
Sep 5 2013, 06:38 AM
Laufeyson
Sep 4 2013, 09:41 PM
And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
I disagree. I'm sorry to say, but if Kristen was redeemed, there would be no point to her. IMO she, even though started out as a heroine, is meant to be a grey character. If she were redeemed and "sainted", over time she would end up on the same train as Sami, Jennifer as someone disinteresting and someone who comes off as a hypocrite.

There are just some characters that are meant to be bitches, grey characters or villains. That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in seeing Nicole in the rectory much longer. We got the point already, she has been redeemed for lying about the baby and trying to break up horrible Dannifer. Now it's time to get back into the swing of things, and move on to bigger and better things, like choosing on which Mansion she is going to move into next. If Eric wants to come with her, it's fine, but the terms should be hers, not his.
I'm not asking for Kristen's redemption, only writing that doesn't go to the lengths of her raping Eric and then make her even less sympathetic. This all started out as a war against Marlena but it's everyone else that's paying a very heavy price when we should see her actually DO something to Marlena, not Brady and certainly not Eric. I remember the days of Vivian burying Carly alive, Kristen locked Marlena in the secret room etc. The writers' lack of creativity is destroying what should be a sweet swan song for this infamous rival but somehow I'm supposed to care about her losing Brady? ED is a fabulous actress but her writing leaves way too much to be desired. It's very disappointing.

I do agree about the hypocrisy, it seems to be running rampant all over Salem right now and it is very unattractive no matter the character.
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blueskies
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Rosebud
Sep 4 2013, 11:06 PM
concerned
Sep 4 2013, 05:11 PM
ladyofthelake
Sep 4 2013, 11:35 AM
S loves EJ
Sep 4 2013, 10:50 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Besides, hypocrisy is well-known on this show, if we want to go that route. There are lots of cases where someone is judging someone else, when 10 years and 50 writers ago, the criticizing character was doing bad stuff, too. Characters get redeemed, characters get re-written, and as we know, new writers cannot keep things consistent to save their souls....
I'd like to see a list, and a time analysis ie in x years on the show Kristin did this vs x years on the show Nicole did this.

I tend to believe that a lot of Nicole's crimes seem to have extenuating circumstances (ie Victor kind of deserved to be killed) ( Sami pretty much deserved every assault/cat fight) ( EJ deserved to be blackmailed when she knew he was Sydney's kidnapper) (Vivian deserved to be left in the Sarcophagus)(but maybe I am just biased) and I didn't see a lot of Kristin's first run so maybe her earlier crimes did too.
They didn't. The choices she made were purely selfish. Nobody did anything to her to cause her to make the horribly selfish decisions she made. Sure she lost her baby, and sure she knew John loved Marlena, but John was committed to her and she could have just told him she lost the baby. She could have walked away and kept her digbity. John should have been honest with her and with Marlena, and he stayed with Kristen because he couldn't have Marlena, so in some ways he was culpable. But Kristen began scheming the minute she saw that there were still strong feelings btw John and Marlena.
Nicole did the same thing though whenever she wanted Brady the first time and he wanted Chloe. Nicole is no better. Probably why I've always liked her too.
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Panda Panda
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Laufeyson
Sep 5 2013, 07:40 AM
Yoryla
Sep 5 2013, 06:38 AM
Laufeyson
Sep 4 2013, 09:41 PM
And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
I disagree. I'm sorry to say, but if Kristen was redeemed, there would be no point to her. IMO she, even though started out as a heroine, is meant to be a grey character. If she were redeemed and "sainted", over time she would end up on the same train as Sami, Jennifer as someone disinteresting and someone who comes off as a hypocrite.

There are just some characters that are meant to be bitches, grey characters or villains. That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in seeing Nicole in the rectory much longer. We got the point already, she has been redeemed for lying about the baby and trying to break up horrible Dannifer. Now it's time to get back into the swing of things, and move on to bigger and better things, like choosing on which Mansion she is going to move into next. If Eric wants to come with her, it's fine, but the terms should be hers, not his.
I'm not asking for Kristen's redemption, only writing that doesn't go to the lengths of her raping Eric and then make her even less sympathetic. This all started out as a war against Marlena but it's everyone else that's paying a very heavy price when we should see her actually DO something to Marlena, not Brady and certainly not Eric. I remember the days of Vivian burying Carly alive, Kristen locked Marlena in the secret room etc. The writers' lack of creativity is destroying what should be a sweet swan song for this infamous rival but somehow I'm supposed to care about her losing Brady? ED is a fabulous actress but her writing leaves way too much to be desired. It's very disappointing.

I do agree about the hypocrisy, it seems to be running rampant all over Salem right now and it is very unattractive no matter the character.
I don't think Kristen can go back to her stereotypical good catholic girl ways after everything that happened to her and everything that she's done, but I don't think if they had redeemed her that she would be useless. Just look at Nicole and what an amazing grey character that she has become after all of her wrong doings. Kristen could have easily been the same but instead the writers had to regurgitate the same old s/l from back then but it just felt empty since it's been so long since Kristen was in Salem and the fact that she was held captive on an Island for an undisclosed amount of years should have held more of precedence than the 15 yr later Revenge scheme.

I loved that we got ED and Kristen back for so long and I admit that I really like Bristen but her storyline was wasted on that romance,the half-assed revenge against John & Marlena, Drugging and sexually assaulting Eric.
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thepadange


Panda Panda
Sep 5 2013, 12:09 PM
Laufeyson
Sep 5 2013, 07:40 AM
Yoryla
Sep 5 2013, 06:38 AM
Laufeyson
Sep 4 2013, 09:41 PM
And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
I disagree. I'm sorry to say, but if Kristen was redeemed, there would be no point to her. IMO she, even though started out as a heroine, is meant to be a grey character. If she were redeemed and "sainted", over time she would end up on the same train as Sami, Jennifer as someone disinteresting and someone who comes off as a hypocrite.

There are just some characters that are meant to be bitches, grey characters or villains. That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in seeing Nicole in the rectory much longer. We got the point already, she has been redeemed for lying about the baby and trying to break up horrible Dannifer. Now it's time to get back into the swing of things, and move on to bigger and better things, like choosing on which Mansion she is going to move into next. If Eric wants to come with her, it's fine, but the terms should be hers, not his.
I'm not asking for Kristen's redemption, only writing that doesn't go to the lengths of her raping Eric and then make her even less sympathetic. This all started out as a war against Marlena but it's everyone else that's paying a very heavy price when we should see her actually DO something to Marlena, not Brady and certainly not Eric. I remember the days of Vivian burying Carly alive, Kristen locked Marlena in the secret room etc. The writers' lack of creativity is destroying what should be a sweet swan song for this infamous rival but somehow I'm supposed to care about her losing Brady? ED is a fabulous actress but her writing leaves way too much to be desired. It's very disappointing.

I do agree about the hypocrisy, it seems to be running rampant all over Salem right now and it is very unattractive no matter the character.
I don't think Kristen can go back to her stereotypical good catholic girl ways after everything that happened to her and everything that she's done, but I don't think if they had redeemed her that she would be useless. Just look at Nicole and what an amazing grey character that she has become after all of her wrong doings. Kristen could have easily been the same but instead the writers had to regurgitate the same old s/l from back then but it just felt empty since it's been so long since Kristen was in Salem and the fact that she was held captive on an Island for an undisclosed amount of years should have held more of precedence than the 15 yr later Revenge scheme.

I loved that we got ED and Kristen back for so long and I admit that I really like Bristen but her storyline was wasted on that romance,the half-assed revenge against John & Marlena, Drugging and sexually assaulting Eric.
I don't know if I agree or disagree. While I personally don't mind that they went Bristen-way to show Kristen's softer, vulnerable side (IMO it makes the character greyish and much much more interesting than if she was pure evil), I never got the logic of Kristen's revenge schemes (be it sleeping with John or raping Eric). I just don't get in general how can one intend to punish somebody (but not her(him)self) by having sex with that person; to hire somebody - yes, but to do it by self :shrug: . As the writers went there twice I would have expected at least some on-screen explanation for that (Harem allusions or so). And I even won't start about John's plan...
All that said I've grown to love the character enormously. And despite of the lack of logic and some ridiculously absurd twists Kristen's s/l was and is my favourite one since she came back to Salem. And I will miss the character a lot after November. It's weird but I think I would watch anything no matter how absurd it may look if it involves Kristen (ED).
Edited by thepadange, Sep 5 2013, 01:45 PM.
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Panda Panda
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There wasn't an ounce of logic behind Kristen's actions this time around and that's what made a large part of the storyline a bust for me.
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Yoryla
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Panda Panda
Sep 5 2013, 12:09 PM
Laufeyson
Sep 5 2013, 07:40 AM
Yoryla
Sep 5 2013, 06:38 AM
Laufeyson
Sep 4 2013, 09:41 PM
And the writers have chosen to keep Kristen as the messed up woman who refuses to acknowledge her mistakes but would rather blame others and exact her revenge on them only to screw up even more which will only lead to more heartache and misplaced anger. Honestly, she needs to grow up.
I disagree. I'm sorry to say, but if Kristen was redeemed, there would be no point to her. IMO she, even though started out as a heroine, is meant to be a grey character. If she were redeemed and "sainted", over time she would end up on the same train as Sami, Jennifer as someone disinteresting and someone who comes off as a hypocrite.

There are just some characters that are meant to be bitches, grey characters or villains. That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in seeing Nicole in the rectory much longer. We got the point already, she has been redeemed for lying about the baby and trying to break up horrible Dannifer. Now it's time to get back into the swing of things, and move on to bigger and better things, like choosing on which Mansion she is going to move into next. If Eric wants to come with her, it's fine, but the terms should be hers, not his.
I'm not asking for Kristen's redemption, only writing that doesn't go to the lengths of her raping Eric and then make her even less sympathetic. This all started out as a war against Marlena but it's everyone else that's paying a very heavy price when we should see her actually DO something to Marlena, not Brady and certainly not Eric. I remember the days of Vivian burying Carly alive, Kristen locked Marlena in the secret room etc. The writers' lack of creativity is destroying what should be a sweet swan song for this infamous rival but somehow I'm supposed to care about her losing Brady? ED is a fabulous actress but her writing leaves way too much to be desired. It's very disappointing.

I do agree about the hypocrisy, it seems to be running rampant all over Salem right now and it is very unattractive no matter the character.
I don't think Kristen can go back to her stereotypical good catholic girl ways after everything that happened to her and everything that she's done, but I don't think if they had redeemed her that she would be useless. Just look at Nicole and what an amazing grey character that she has become after all of her wrong doings. Kristen could have easily been the same but instead the writers had to regurgitate the same old s/l from back then but it just felt empty since it's been so long since Kristen was in Salem and the fact that she was held captive on an Island for an undisclosed amount of years should have held more of precedence than the 15 yr later Revenge scheme.

I loved that we got ED and Kristen back for so long and I admit that I really like Bristen but her storyline was wasted on that romance,the half-assed revenge against John & Marlena, Drugging and sexually assaulting Eric.
But that was actually one of my points there. Is Nicole really a "great grey character"? Because to me she's not. She's not acting like Nicole, and she hasn't been ever since she moved into the rectory, and developed this hypocritical side + started to prop Dannifer. Now I get that she "had" to do it for a while, in order for the viewing audience to be able to consider her "redeemed" (though that was never necessary to me). Nicole has only lately been amusing to me at the direct bitchfights with Kristen and this latest insinuation on a deal with Marlena. But other than that, she has come off shrewish, annoying buttinski, and I believe this is only because the writers seem to think that since Nicole was "such a bad character" last year, she now has to make rounds around town to try to "salvage" people, because heaven forbid she could do something with some more force.

So anyway, I would never want to Kristen have the same faith.
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Kevin_Buchanan
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Sweet and Salty
Sep 3 2013, 01:43 PM
I'm sorry, but Gabi is so into herself. I'm with Sonny on this.
And Gabi imho doesn't even give a crap about her baby, she's always pawning Ari off on Will & Sonny. If she really cared about Will, she wouldn't go back to Nick the Prick!
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