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Wednesday, Sept 11th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Sep 11 2013, 01:14 AM (12,468 Views)
lysie
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S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:28 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:19 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:06 PM
Even if Sami saw Lucas as just a friend, there is a difference (among others)between EJ and Lucas, EJ is a Dimera. So even if you take away Ejamiīs bad history Sami might still had been indenial about her feelings for EJ and not wanting to have feelings for a man that is part of an evil family, despite her past of obsseessing over Austin.
I think the writers maybe tried to make that true during the whole black wedding/ vendetta stuff.

I do think Sami fought her feelings for EJ on many occasions throughout their history and there were times I didn't see it from her at all. But whenever she was fighting them, I felt it was more because of their personal history rather than their families' history.

In the very beginning when she found he was a Dimera, they had already started changing their dynamic, so answering the question of whether her denial would have been about that actions aside, is something really hard to speculate.

I agree though that there was enough cause for Sami to fight her feelings for EJ, actions or family, to justify it and it not be an out of character thing for her to do.


I think you are right that Sami has been fighting her feelings for EJ more because of their past than their families history, but I wished that they had written from the beginning Sami fighting her feelings because he was a Dimera. They would truly had been a epic super couple then, I still love them, but their past have without any doubt damaging them a lot.
Oh see, I don't agree at all. Sami's never given a crap about her family's issues with the DiMeras. She certainly didn't care when she went after Tony. I prefer it be about her own issues with EJ because Sami is self-involved. Now I wouldn't mind her having issues with EJ because of the more recent things he's done to her family but as far as the history of family issues, I don't think Sami in true Sami form would give a rip. the last name certainly was never an issue for her. I think the kind of story you're talking about would only work with a character like Abby or Belle or Stephanie.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ Jax Teller♥

lysie
Sep 12 2013, 01:44 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:28 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:19 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:06 PM
Even if Sami saw Lucas as just a friend, there is a difference (among others)between EJ and Lucas, EJ is a Dimera. So even if you take away Ejamiīs bad history Sami might still had been indenial about her feelings for EJ and not wanting to have feelings for a man that is part of an evil family, despite her past of obsseessing over Austin.
I think the writers maybe tried to make that true during the whole black wedding/ vendetta stuff.

I do think Sami fought her feelings for EJ on many occasions throughout their history and there were times I didn't see it from her at all. But whenever she was fighting them, I felt it was more because of their personal history rather than their families' history.

In the very beginning when she found he was a Dimera, they had already started changing their dynamic, so answering the question of whether her denial would have been about that actions aside, is something really hard to speculate.

I agree though that there was enough cause for Sami to fight her feelings for EJ, actions or family, to justify it and it not be an out of character thing for her to do.


I think you are right that Sami has been fighting her feelings for EJ more because of their past than their families history, but I wished that they had written from the beginning Sami fighting her feelings because he was a Dimera. They would truly had been a epic super couple then, I still love them, but their past have without any doubt damaging them a lot.
Oh see, I don't agree at all. Sami's never given a crap about her family's issues with the DiMeras. She certainly didn't care when she went after Tony. I prefer it be about her own issues with EJ because Sami is self-involved. Now I wouldn't mind her having issues with EJ because of the more recent things he's done to her family but as far as the history of family issues, I don't think Sami in true Sami form would give a rip. the last name certainly was never an issue for her. I think the kind of story you're talking about would only work with a character like Abby or Belle or Stephanie.
Yeah the fact that they never showed her to care about the Dimeras before Ej came to town is why I will never believe that she was holding her feelings for him back or denying them because of who his father was. That is why it is still a failure to me that they tried to justify her actions earlier this year by saying that she tried to conform to what her family wanted of her, when we never saw that and when we saw exactly the opposite happen back in 2007 when her entire family was begging her not to marry Ej and she went against them and did just that.
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S loves EJ


lysie
Sep 12 2013, 01:44 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:28 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:19 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:06 PM
Even if Sami saw Lucas as just a friend, there is a difference (among others)between EJ and Lucas, EJ is a Dimera. So even if you take away Ejamiīs bad history Sami might still had been indenial about her feelings for EJ and not wanting to have feelings for a man that is part of an evil family, despite her past of obsseessing over Austin.
I think the writers maybe tried to make that true during the whole black wedding/ vendetta stuff.

I do think Sami fought her feelings for EJ on many occasions throughout their history and there were times I didn't see it from her at all. But whenever she was fighting them, I felt it was more because of their personal history rather than their families' history.

In the very beginning when she found he was a Dimera, they had already started changing their dynamic, so answering the question of whether her denial would have been about that actions aside, is something really hard to speculate.

I agree though that there was enough cause for Sami to fight her feelings for EJ, actions or family, to justify it and it not be an out of character thing for her to do.


I think you are right that Sami has been fighting her feelings for EJ more because of their past than their families history, but I wished that they had written from the beginning Sami fighting her feelings because he was a Dimera. They would truly had been a epic super couple then, I still love them, but their past have without any doubt damaging them a lot.
Oh see, I don't agree at all. Sami's never given a crap about her family's issues with the DiMeras. She certainly didn't care when she went after Tony. I prefer it be about her own issues with EJ because Sami is self-involved. Now I wouldn't mind her having issues with EJ because of the more recent things he's done to her family but as far as the history of family issues, I don't think Sami in true Sami form would give a rip. the last name certainly was never an issue for her. I think the kind of story you're talking about would only work with a character like Abby or Belle or Stephanie.

I wouldnīt have wanted the writers to change Sami into a good character. I would have wanted her to stay bad just as I would have EJ to still have been bad. If I could rewrite the rape I think I would have had Ejami slept together before Sami knew EJ was a Dimera. She would still have been mad at him for lying about his identity but it wouldnīt have as bad as the rape, and I would still have wanted Stefano to have requested to EJ to plant the Dimera seed, because I do love their fights in 2007 and it could pretty much have been the same fights then but with small changes in dialouge. I also like the conflict of Sami having feelings for EJ, and in the same feel the need to protect her child from the Dimeras.
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concerned
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Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:08 PM
I need both writing and chemistry....I can see chemistry and if the writing is horrible and makes the character completely horrible together then I can't see the chemistry trumping the shitty writing. But if there is good writing and not so good chemistry I can see the story being boring and lackluster. For me it needs to be a perfect mix of the two, that is why Jarlena worked flawlessly because they had both, that is J&J were able to overcome Jack's past and progress into a love story. That is why I once upon a time believed that Sami was capable of loving someone deeply and for that same reason (bad writing on Sami's end) is why I no longer believe she's capable of loving anyone anymore.
I normally need good writing and good chemistry too.

The fact that I continued liking Ejami, or at least wanting a story for them, even when the writing was bad is just a testament to how much chemistry I think the two actors have with one another.

I want good story most of all though. I just think bad chemistry hinders my enjoyment of it and good chemistry can make a story, however well written or otherwise, better.
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

I admit there have been times when I have found EJ and Sami to be entertaining but 98% of those times have been when the two of them have hated each other. (ie mexican hat dance, exposure of the video tape of the shooting, Discussion in the car after Tony kidnapping Sami) Of the times when they have been in love with each other or supportive of each other - not so entertaining and often just laughably bad.

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concerned
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LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:52 PM
lysie
Sep 12 2013, 01:44 PM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 01:28 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:19 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

I think you are right that Sami has been fighting her feelings for EJ more because of their past than their families history, but I wished that they had written from the beginning Sami fighting her feelings because he was a Dimera. They would truly had been a epic super couple then, I still love them, but their past have without any doubt damaging them a lot.
Oh see, I don't agree at all. Sami's never given a crap about her family's issues with the DiMeras. She certainly didn't care when she went after Tony. I prefer it be about her own issues with EJ because Sami is self-involved. Now I wouldn't mind her having issues with EJ because of the more recent things he's done to her family but as far as the history of family issues, I don't think Sami in true Sami form would give a rip. the last name certainly was never an issue for her. I think the kind of story you're talking about would only work with a character like Abby or Belle or Stephanie.
Yeah the fact that they never showed her to care about the Dimeras before Ej came to town is why I will never believe that she was holding her feelings for him back or denying them because of who his father was. That is why it is still a failure to me that they tried to justify her actions earlier this year by saying that she tried to conform to what her family wanted of her, when we never saw that and when we saw exactly the opposite happen back in 2007 when her entire family was begging her not to marry Ej and she went against them and did just that.
Good thing Tony's dad was the gardener.
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tomsawyer
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concerned
Sep 12 2013, 04:16 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:08 PM
I need both writing and chemistry....I can see chemistry and if the writing is horrible and makes the character completely horrible together then I can't see the chemistry trumping the shitty writing. But if there is good writing and not so good chemistry I can see the story being boring and lackluster. For me it needs to be a perfect mix of the two, that is why Jarlena worked flawlessly because they had both, that is J&J were able to overcome Jack's past and progress into a love story. That is why I once upon a time believed that Sami was capable of loving someone deeply and for that same reason (bad writing on Sami's end) is why I no longer believe she's capable of loving anyone anymore.
I normally need good writing and good chemistry too.

The fact that I continued liking Ejami, or at least wanting a story for them, even when the writing was bad is just a testament to how much chemistry I think the two actors have with one another.

I want good story most of all though. I just think bad chemistry hinders my enjoyment of it and good chemistry can make a story, however well written or otherwise, better.
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

Have you never met the Carbos????

Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its not a lack of chemistry that's mostly hurt Ejami's popularity with some folks, it's their stories - the rape, the Sydnap, the shooting, R2, etc. Moreover, Bope was built during the super couple era when rooting couples were clear and written for the long-term. Ejami came about in the era of shippers, fanbases wars and a bunch of different headwriters with different agendas.
Edited by tomsawyer, Sep 12 2013, 04:39 PM.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

tomsawyer
Sep 12 2013, 04:32 PM
concerned
Sep 12 2013, 04:16 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:08 PM
I need both writing and chemistry....I can see chemistry and if the writing is horrible and makes the character completely horrible together then I can't see the chemistry trumping the shitty writing. But if there is good writing and not so good chemistry I can see the story being boring and lackluster. For me it needs to be a perfect mix of the two, that is why Jarlena worked flawlessly because they had both, that is J&J were able to overcome Jack's past and progress into a love story. That is why I once upon a time believed that Sami was capable of loving someone deeply and for that same reason (bad writing on Sami's end) is why I no longer believe she's capable of loving anyone anymore.
I normally need good writing and good chemistry too.

The fact that I continued liking Ejami, or at least wanting a story for them, even when the writing was bad is just a testament to how much chemistry I think the two actors have with one another.

I want good story most of all though. I just think bad chemistry hinders my enjoyment of it and good chemistry can make a story, however well written or otherwise, better.
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

Have you never met the Carbos????

Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its not a lack of chemistry that's mostly hurt Ejami's popularity with some folks, it's their stories - the rape, the Sydnap, the shooting, R2, etc. Moreover, Bope was built during the super couple era when rooting couples were clear and written for the long-term. Ejami came about in the era of shippers, fanbases wars and a bunch of different headwriters with different agendas.
Definitely. THe writing inconsistency the past 10 years or so has really blown the whole supercouple concept, not to mention just plain consistency.
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marie1969


LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 09:06 AM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 08:54 AM
Partnersincrime
Sep 12 2013, 08:39 AM
it been whitewash from sami side because last time i check sami did not give shit when she shot ej
When she jumped into bed with Rafe immediately after, yes it did sort of feel like she had no shits to give about shooting EJ.

But she has since said and not so long after it happened, that she loved him (and hated him)...I didn't hear her say anything in the letter about the shooting specifically that would indicate we were supposed to recall that whole thing differently. She shot him, but part of her would die if he did. That can still be true even if at the time, she felt justified in doing what she did. Everything else she said in the letter wasn't really about her shooting him the head.
I didn't have an issue with Ej's letter. I don't particularly believe he's always loved Sami...I see it more as an obsession rather than love but at least he's been shown to want to be with her at times and gone out of his way to achieve that, using at times whatever means he had at his disposal to get it done. However, on Sami's side it wasn't just so cut and dry. Like I said, if the letter would have centered around the fact that she was truly remorseful for even contemplating throwing him under the bus it would have made more sense. But for her to wax poetic about how she now in the silence can hear his heartbeat and then says some BS about putting her head on his chest to hear the heartbeat but doesn't acknowledge that she didn't really feel that way when she not too long ago broke off her engagement to EJ, went back and shot to kill him, ran to Rafe and boinked the living daylights out of him while Ej lay bleeding on his bed, accepted Rafe's proposal of marriage and then when she found out Ej had survived the shot to the head didn't feel an ounce of remorse but instead went back and pulled the plug in yet another attempt to kill him just leaves me wondering just exactly what she was talking about in that letter. It's a whitewash through and through..and you know the biggest indicator of that? They don't bring up Rafe 2 at all, they barely touch on the shooting....and that's because they don't want to remind anyone exactly how fucked up that writing was for them then because they want to paint them as this couple in love now.


First off, I am pretty sure Brady brought up Rafe 2 when Ejami first got together and I think others have as well. Do we really expect the writers to constantly re-harsh everything that has happened? Ejami have moved on.... to better things.

Besides, it is just Ejami's past misdeeds they have swept under the carpet. For instance, they don't mentioned the fact that Nicole kidnapped Sami's baby and pass it off as hers in order to trap Ej. Why? because it is an inconvenient truth since they want to pair her with Eric. They don't mention either that she slept with Roman and tried to kill Marlena. Another inconvenient little fact. Those things are swept under the carpet.

Speaking of rewrite, Lucas has benefited from rewrite of history the most. They never mentioned that he let Sami go on death row for a murder he committed. When it is mentioned, they blame Kate only and everyone pretend that Lucas had nothing to do with it. Before anyone says that it was Kate. Let me just clarify that Kate was the mastermind, but Lucas went along with it. Did he feel bad? yes at times. But when Sami was convicted, he sent her satelite message gloating about having full custody while Sami would rot in prison. So he did not feel that bad IMO.

Lucas' role in the death row story is the same as Ej's role in the Rafe 2 story. He is as guilty as Lucas because he went along with it. Yet Ej gets blame for the whole thing as if he was the mastermind instead of Stephano, but Lucas gets a free pass for his role in the death row. Double standard?

Another rewrite Lucas benefited from is Ej's shooting. We all know that he was the one who shot Ej and tried to skip town, they rewrote it to say it was Will. don't even get me started on John because they have rewritten his history so many times it is laughable. I could go on, but you get my point.

It does not bother me because it is nature of the beast, :shrug: but the double standard does however.
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DesignatedShelley
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I think Days has had more changes in writing regimes in a close amount of time than most other soaps, and for me it's the biggest long-term reason that it's in such bad shape. Unfortunately there's nothing I want more than just one more writing regime change, because I want TomSell out like y'day's trash, but it shouldn't be so hard to hire a HW who's both competent and cares about the show's history. Anyway 10 years seems more like 15 to me, ever since right after JER's first run the writing and general tone of the show has seemed to shift every other year.

Anyway re. chemistry, I accept that it's ultimately subjective and I have no doubt that people who say they see it in EJami mean it. But I've never been able to see it as overwhelming, I felt in the beginning they were trying too hard, and then later when there was more history (albeit sometimes wildly contradictory history) to inform their interactions I thought there were some scenes of natural enough interaction, but nothing that necessarily topped Sami's other pairings (and I liked the writing for some of those better).

But it is hard to compare EJami to the supercouples of yore, no doubt, the writing tactics are different, and to be honest, we don't really know how much dissent there might've been about supercouples in the past because there weren't online message boards in the 80s. I'm sure there was some talk through the soap mags via fan letters but it's such a different level now to be able to have daily feedback from fans in communities which come to develop social dynamics etc, who knows what the writers would've concluded about what the fans wanted in the 80s if message boards and online polls were around back then. EJami to me is such a product of its time.
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LuvingLumi
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♥ Jax Teller♥

marie1969
Sep 12 2013, 07:58 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 09:06 AM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 08:54 AM
Partnersincrime
Sep 12 2013, 08:39 AM
it been whitewash from sami side because last time i check sami did not give shit when she shot ej
When she jumped into bed with Rafe immediately after, yes it did sort of feel like she had no shits to give about shooting EJ.

But she has since said and not so long after it happened, that she loved him (and hated him)...I didn't hear her say anything in the letter about the shooting specifically that would indicate we were supposed to recall that whole thing differently. She shot him, but part of her would die if he did. That can still be true even if at the time, she felt justified in doing what she did. Everything else she said in the letter wasn't really about her shooting him the head.
I didn't have an issue with Ej's letter. I don't particularly believe he's always loved Sami...I see it more as an obsession rather than love but at least he's been shown to want to be with her at times and gone out of his way to achieve that, using at times whatever means he had at his disposal to get it done. However, on Sami's side it wasn't just so cut and dry. Like I said, if the letter would have centered around the fact that she was truly remorseful for even contemplating throwing him under the bus it would have made more sense. But for her to wax poetic about how she now in the silence can hear his heartbeat and then says some BS about putting her head on his chest to hear the heartbeat but doesn't acknowledge that she didn't really feel that way when she not too long ago broke off her engagement to EJ, went back and shot to kill him, ran to Rafe and boinked the living daylights out of him while Ej lay bleeding on his bed, accepted Rafe's proposal of marriage and then when she found out Ej had survived the shot to the head didn't feel an ounce of remorse but instead went back and pulled the plug in yet another attempt to kill him just leaves me wondering just exactly what she was talking about in that letter. It's a whitewash through and through..and you know the biggest indicator of that? They don't bring up Rafe 2 at all, they barely touch on the shooting....and that's because they don't want to remind anyone exactly how fucked up that writing was for them then because they want to paint them as this couple in love now.


First off, I am pretty sure Brady brought up Rafe 2 when Ejami first got together and I think others have as well. Do we really expect the writers to constantly re-harsh everything that has happened? Ejami have moved on.... to better things.

Besides, it is just Ejami's past misdeeds they have swept under the carpet. For instance, they don't mentioned the fact that Nicole kidnapped Sami's baby and pass it off as hers in order to trap Ej. Why? because it is an inconvenient truth since they want to pair her with Eric. They don't mention either that she slept with Roman and tried to kill Marlena. Another inconvenient little fact. Those things are swept under the carpet.

Speaking of rewrite, Lucas has benefited from rewrite of history the most. They never mentioned that he let Sami go on death row for a murder he committed. When it is mentioned, they blame Kate only and everyone pretend that Lucas had nothing to do with it. Before anyone says that it was Kate. Let me just clarify that Kate was the mastermind, but Lucas went along with it. Did he feel bad? yes at times. But when Sami was convicted, he sent her satelite message gloating about having full custody while Sami would rot in prison. So he did not feel that bad IMO.

Lucas' role in the death row story is the same as Ej's role in the Rafe 2 story. He is as guilty as Lucas because he went along with it. Yet Ej gets blame for the whole thing as if he was the mastermind instead of Stephano, but Lucas gets a free pass for his role in the death row. Double standard?

Another rewrite Lucas benefited from is Ej's shooting. We all know that he was the one who shot Ej and tried to skip town, they rewrote it to say it was Will. don't even get me started on John because they have rewritten his history so many times it is laughable. I could go on, but you get my point.

It does not bother me because it is nature of the beast, :shrug: but the double standard does however.
On Nicole kidnapping Syd, Eric continues to bring it up at every turn, so it's not forgotten or whitewashed. I bet she'll be accused of drugging and raping Eric soon and her past deeds will be the reason Eric and Brady believe she could be even remotely capable of that behavior I'm sure.

The Lucas shooting was not rewritten. At the time of the reveal that Will shot Ej, Tommy Casiello, a writer for Days at the time was asked on twitter if Will was always the shooter and he said he was, that it wasn't revealed at the time because of will's age or something... So in effect it wasn't a rewrite. As to death row and Lucas involvement, death row was brought up last year during the time that Ej was being falsely accused of killing Stefano. Sami's excuse for helping Ej was that she knew what it felt like to be framed for a crime she didn't commit and it landed her on death row. Of all the people she could have said that to guess who she chose? Lucas... So I don't see how an argument can be made for a double standard when Days refuses to have Sami and Ej realty DEAL with their very recent issues, they don't bother to mention it in their dialogue but the continue to make light and point out something that happened between Lumi almost 15 yrs ago. Plus IMHO Ej deserved to get shot back then and if it would have stayed as Lucas I wouldn't have cared.

One other thing regarding death row... While Lucas and Ej's roles in their respective schemes were similar, the writing for Ej showed him laughing and toasting to Rafe 2 taking advantage of Sami while Lucas was shown to be truly remorseful... To the point that he drank himself to a stupor everytime Kate stopped him from confessing. I can think of three times at least that Lucas was close to confessing before he actually ran into the chamber. Ej didn't give a crap about anything, he stood aside and laughed as Sami and his kids were put in danger by Stefano's scheme.
Edited by LuvingLumi, Sep 12 2013, 08:26 PM.
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Brewster
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concerned
Sep 12 2013, 04:16 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:08 PM
I need both writing and chemistry....I can see chemistry and if the writing is horrible and makes the character completely horrible together then I can't see the chemistry trumping the shitty writing. But if there is good writing and not so good chemistry I can see the story being boring and lackluster. For me it needs to be a perfect mix of the two, that is why Jarlena worked flawlessly because they had both, that is J&J were able to overcome Jack's past and progress into a love story. That is why I once upon a time believed that Sami was capable of loving someone deeply and for that same reason (bad writing on Sami's end) is why I no longer believe she's capable of loving anyone anymore.
I normally need good writing and good chemistry too.

The fact that I continued liking Ejami, or at least wanting a story for them, even when the writing was bad is just a testament to how much chemistry I think the two actors have with one another.

I want good story most of all though. I just think bad chemistry hinders my enjoyment of it and good chemistry can make a story, however well written or otherwise, better.
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

I admit there have been times when I have found EJ and Sami to be entertaining but 98% of those times have been when the two of them have hated each other. (ie mexican hat dance, exposure of the video tape of the shooting, Discussion in the car after Tony kidnapping Sami) Of the times when they have been in love with each other or supportive of each other - not so entertaining and often just laughably bad.

Their chemistry is overwhelming to me. I can't possibly answer for anyone else.

I think their fights are great, their chemistry is equally overwhelming in those scenes, to me.
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lysie
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marie1969
Sep 12 2013, 07:58 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 09:06 AM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 08:54 AM
Partnersincrime
Sep 12 2013, 08:39 AM
it been whitewash from sami side because last time i check sami did not give shit when she shot ej
When she jumped into bed with Rafe immediately after, yes it did sort of feel like she had no shits to give about shooting EJ.

But she has since said and not so long after it happened, that she loved him (and hated him)...I didn't hear her say anything in the letter about the shooting specifically that would indicate we were supposed to recall that whole thing differently. She shot him, but part of her would die if he did. That can still be true even if at the time, she felt justified in doing what she did. Everything else she said in the letter wasn't really about her shooting him the head.
I didn't have an issue with Ej's letter. I don't particularly believe he's always loved Sami...I see it more as an obsession rather than love but at least he's been shown to want to be with her at times and gone out of his way to achieve that, using at times whatever means he had at his disposal to get it done. However, on Sami's side it wasn't just so cut and dry. Like I said, if the letter would have centered around the fact that she was truly remorseful for even contemplating throwing him under the bus it would have made more sense. But for her to wax poetic about how she now in the silence can hear his heartbeat and then says some BS about putting her head on his chest to hear the heartbeat but doesn't acknowledge that she didn't really feel that way when she not too long ago broke off her engagement to EJ, went back and shot to kill him, ran to Rafe and boinked the living daylights out of him while Ej lay bleeding on his bed, accepted Rafe's proposal of marriage and then when she found out Ej had survived the shot to the head didn't feel an ounce of remorse but instead went back and pulled the plug in yet another attempt to kill him just leaves me wondering just exactly what she was talking about in that letter. It's a whitewash through and through..and you know the biggest indicator of that? They don't bring up Rafe 2 at all, they barely touch on the shooting....and that's because they don't want to remind anyone exactly how fucked up that writing was for them then because they want to paint them as this couple in love now.


First off, I am pretty sure Brady brought up Rafe 2 when Ejami first got together and I think others have as well. Do we really expect the writers to constantly re-harsh everything that has happened? Ejami have moved on.... to better things.

Besides, it is just Ejami's past misdeeds they have swept under the carpet. For instance, they don't mentioned the fact that Nicole kidnapped Sami's baby and pass it off as hers in order to trap Ej. Why? because it is an inconvenient truth since they want to pair her with Eric. They don't mention either that she slept with Roman and tried to kill Marlena. Another inconvenient little fact. Those things are swept under the carpet.

Speaking of rewrite, Lucas has benefited from rewrite of history the most. They never mentioned that he let Sami go on death row for a murder he committed. When it is mentioned, they blame Kate only and everyone pretend that Lucas had nothing to do with it. Before anyone says that it was Kate. Let me just clarify that Kate was the mastermind, but Lucas went along with it. Did he feel bad? yes at times. But when Sami was convicted, he sent her satelite message gloating about having full custody while Sami would rot in prison. So he did not feel that bad IMO.

Lucas' role in the death row story is the same as Ej's role in the Rafe 2 story. He is as guilty as Lucas because he went along with it. Yet Ej gets blame for the whole thing as if he was the mastermind instead of Stephano, but Lucas gets a free pass for his role in the death row. Double standard?

Another rewrite Lucas benefited from is Ej's shooting. We all know that he was the one who shot Ej and tried to skip town, they rewrote it to say it was Will. don't even get me started on John because they have rewritten his history so many times it is laughable. I could go on, but you get my point.

It does not bother me because it is nature of the beast, :shrug: but the double standard does however.
Even though I don't think the majority of this is accurate at all, I know that I certainly don't just complain about EJ and Sami's histories being ignored, so I'd love for them to address this other stuff. Especially Roman and Nicole. But I don't necessarily need them to rehash any of it. I'd just like them to act like people who actually have complicated histories. EJ and Sami aren't the only two people who've been affected by some of these things and it'd be nice if other characters could have issues with it even if EJ and Sami have moved on.
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TreasureCove
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LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 08:14 PM
marie1969
Sep 12 2013, 07:58 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 09:06 AM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 08:54 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I didn't have an issue with Ej's letter. I don't particularly believe he's always loved Sami...I see it more as an obsession rather than love but at least he's been shown to want to be with her at times and gone out of his way to achieve that, using at times whatever means he had at his disposal to get it done. However, on Sami's side it wasn't just so cut and dry. Like I said, if the letter would have centered around the fact that she was truly remorseful for even contemplating throwing him under the bus it would have made more sense. But for her to wax poetic about how she now in the silence can hear his heartbeat and then says some BS about putting her head on his chest to hear the heartbeat but doesn't acknowledge that she didn't really feel that way when she not too long ago broke off her engagement to EJ, went back and shot to kill him, ran to Rafe and boinked the living daylights out of him while Ej lay bleeding on his bed, accepted Rafe's proposal of marriage and then when she found out Ej had survived the shot to the head didn't feel an ounce of remorse but instead went back and pulled the plug in yet another attempt to kill him just leaves me wondering just exactly what she was talking about in that letter. It's a whitewash through and through..and you know the biggest indicator of that? They don't bring up Rafe 2 at all, they barely touch on the shooting....and that's because they don't want to remind anyone exactly how fucked up that writing was for them then because they want to paint them as this couple in love now.


First off, I am pretty sure Brady brought up Rafe 2 when Ejami first got together and I think others have as well. Do we really expect the writers to constantly re-harsh everything that has happened? Ejami have moved on.... to better things.

Besides, it is just Ejami's past misdeeds they have swept under the carpet. For instance, they don't mentioned the fact that Nicole kidnapped Sami's baby and pass it off as hers in order to trap Ej. Why? because it is an inconvenient truth since they want to pair her with Eric. They don't mention either that she slept with Roman and tried to kill Marlena. Another inconvenient little fact. Those things are swept under the carpet.

Speaking of rewrite, Lucas has benefited from rewrite of history the most. They never mentioned that he let Sami go on death row for a murder he committed. When it is mentioned, they blame Kate only and everyone pretend that Lucas had nothing to do with it. Before anyone says that it was Kate. Let me just clarify that Kate was the mastermind, but Lucas went along with it. Did he feel bad? yes at times. But when Sami was convicted, he sent her satelite message gloating about having full custody while Sami would rot in prison. So he did not feel that bad IMO.

Lucas' role in the death row story is the same as Ej's role in the Rafe 2 story. He is as guilty as Lucas because he went along with it. Yet Ej gets blame for the whole thing as if he was the mastermind instead of Stephano, but Lucas gets a free pass for his role in the death row. Double standard?

Another rewrite Lucas benefited from is Ej's shooting. We all know that he was the one who shot Ej and tried to skip town, they rewrote it to say it was Will. don't even get me started on John because they have rewritten his history so many times it is laughable. I could go on, but you get my point.

It does not bother me because it is nature of the beast, :shrug: but the double standard does however.
On Nicole kidnapping Syd, Eric continues to bring it up at every turn, so it's not forgotten or whitewashed. I bet she'll be accused of drugging and raping Eric soon and her past deeds will be the reason Eric and Brady believe she could be even remotely capable of that behavior I'm sure.

The Lucas shooting was not rewritten. At the time of the reveal that Will shot Ej, Tommy Casiello, a writer for Days at the time was asked on twitter if Will was always the shooter and he said he was, that it wasn't revealed at the time because of will's age or something... So in effect it wasn't a rewrite. As to death row and Lucas involvement, death row was brought up last year during the time that Ej was being falsely accused of killing Stefano. Sami's excuse for helping Ej was that she knew what it felt like to be framed for a crime she didn't commit and it landed her on death row. Of all the people she could have said that to guess who she chose? Lucas... So I don't see how an argument can be made for a double standard when Days refuses to have Sami and Ej realty DEAL with their very recent issues, they don't bother to mention it in their dialogue but the continue to make light and point out something that happened between Lumi almost 15 yrs ago. Plus IMHO Ej deserved to get shot back then and if it would have stayed as Lucas I wouldn't have cared.

One other thing regarding death row... While Lucas and Ej's roles in their respective schemes were similar, the writing for Ej showed him laughing and toasting to Rafe 2 taking advantage of Sami while Lucas was shown to be truly remorseful... To the point that he drank himself to a stupor everytime Kate stopped him from confessing. I can think of three times at least that Lucas was close to confessing before he actually ran into the chamber. Ej didn't give a crap about anything, he stood aside and laughed as Sami and his kids were put in danger by Stefano's scheme.
It was Stefano's plan in the beginning, but he simply wanted them broken up and his grandchildren away from Rafe. Stefano didn't care if Arnold slept in the kitchen sink. I

t was EJ who demanded he rape Sami. He not only brought up the "benifits" he coached Arnold on how to do it, and called Arnold for updates. When Arnold told him he hadn't raped her yet, EJ got pissed at Arnold.

After the cookie WITH nuts thing, EJ immideatly demanded that Arnold rape her again with the phone on so Rafe could listen to her being raped. EJ also decided at that point to take up Stefano on his offer of having Allie kidnapped. EJ was more than 50% partner in the fake Rafe plan.
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spartan
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LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 10:29 AM
S loves EJ
Sep 12 2013, 09:49 AM
I think I can see both sides to this, I do think bringing up the shooting in the letter is whitewashing it, and Sami talking about not feeling his heartbeat made no sense to me. I donīt understand why the writers brought it up they should have focused on Sami saying she was sorry for almost throwing him under the bus that was the part I loved about the letter.

I do think however that most Ejami fans including myself explains the bad things that Ejami has done to each other as them being indenial about their feelings for each other, thinking they hate each other, but there is a thin line between love and hate, and deep down they do love each other. Sami said herself to Roman that she and EJ has chemistry, but she hasnīt always wanted to emitt that. She also said when she choosed EJ that the reason she first choosed Rafe was because he was the safe choice that her family approve of.
My problem with the bolded is that unlike EJ, we saw Sami as a character for over a decade before Ej came on board and as a character, Sami historically NEVER denied her feelings for ANY MAN....remember she fell in love with her worse enemy way before Ej came to town. He was the son of the woman who framed her for murder, and he was an active participant and made her life a living hell. If anything she should have denied her feelings for Lucas for so long too....but that was not the case. She actually would obsess over Austin for a decade, over Brandon....when she finally fell for Lucas, she denied it to HIM but we the audience saw exactly what she was feeling and as a character to told us via her dreams, or her speaking to mirrors or herself. The failure is the writers have not sold her love for EJ to anyone but those that already liked or loved the couple and to me that is where the problem lies.
I can't agree with your last sentence because none of us can say for sure that the only people 'buying' this EJami storyline were the ones that already liked or loved them. We don't know that. I can tell you stories of meeting people at a fan event where I know that's not true just for starters. I don't presume to know what the overwhelming trend is either way but this particular board certainly isn't indicative of the GA's feelings for any character or couple. The majority on this board certainly seem to not buy it but then the majority on this board hate Dannifer and they seem to have a lot of support elsewhere.....so go figure. We just don't know.
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spartan
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tomsawyer
Sep 12 2013, 04:32 PM
concerned
Sep 12 2013, 04:16 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 01:08 PM
I need both writing and chemistry....I can see chemistry and if the writing is horrible and makes the character completely horrible together then I can't see the chemistry trumping the shitty writing. But if there is good writing and not so good chemistry I can see the story being boring and lackluster. For me it needs to be a perfect mix of the two, that is why Jarlena worked flawlessly because they had both, that is J&J were able to overcome Jack's past and progress into a love story. That is why I once upon a time believed that Sami was capable of loving someone deeply and for that same reason (bad writing on Sami's end) is why I no longer believe she's capable of loving anyone anymore.
I normally need good writing and good chemistry too.

The fact that I continued liking Ejami, or at least wanting a story for them, even when the writing was bad is just a testament to how much chemistry I think the two actors have with one another.

I want good story most of all though. I just think bad chemistry hinders my enjoyment of it and good chemistry can make a story, however well written or otherwise, better.
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

Have you never met the Carbos????

Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its not a lack of chemistry that's mostly hurt Ejami's popularity with some folks, it's their stories - the rape, the Sydnap, the shooting, R2, etc. Moreover, Bope was built during the super couple era when rooting couples were clear and written for the long-term. Ejami came about in the era of shippers, fanbases wars and a bunch of different headwriters with different agendas.
Bingo. I'll go out on the limb with you. I've always thought EJami would have been a blip on the radar years ago if it weren't for their chemistry. Speaking for myself, I know the chemistry is what kept me hanging on through some of the craziest times. I would have just hung it up if any other couple went thru some of the crazy shit writing they put EJami through.
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marie1969


LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 08:14 PM
marie1969
Sep 12 2013, 07:58 PM
LuvingLumi
Sep 12 2013, 09:06 AM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 08:54 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I didn't have an issue with Ej's letter. I don't particularly believe he's always loved Sami...I see it more as an obsession rather than love but at least he's been shown to want to be with her at times and gone out of his way to achieve that, using at times whatever means he had at his disposal to get it done. However, on Sami's side it wasn't just so cut and dry. Like I said, if the letter would have centered around the fact that she was truly remorseful for even contemplating throwing him under the bus it would have made more sense. But for her to wax poetic about how she now in the silence can hear his heartbeat and then says some BS about putting her head on his chest to hear the heartbeat but doesn't acknowledge that she didn't really feel that way when she not too long ago broke off her engagement to EJ, went back and shot to kill him, ran to Rafe and boinked the living daylights out of him while Ej lay bleeding on his bed, accepted Rafe's proposal of marriage and then when she found out Ej had survived the shot to the head didn't feel an ounce of remorse but instead went back and pulled the plug in yet another attempt to kill him just leaves me wondering just exactly what she was talking about in that letter. It's a whitewash through and through..and you know the biggest indicator of that? They don't bring up Rafe 2 at all, they barely touch on the shooting....and that's because they don't want to remind anyone exactly how fucked up that writing was for them then because they want to paint them as this couple in love now.


First off, I am pretty sure Brady brought up Rafe 2 when Ejami first got together and I think others have as well. Do we really expect the writers to constantly re-harsh everything that has happened? Ejami have moved on.... to better things.

Besides, it is just Ejami's past misdeeds they have swept under the carpet. For instance, they don't mentioned the fact that Nicole kidnapped Sami's baby and pass it off as hers in order to trap Ej. Why? because it is an inconvenient truth since they want to pair her with Eric. They don't mention either that she slept with Roman and tried to kill Marlena. Another inconvenient little fact. Those things are swept under the carpet.

Speaking of rewrite, Lucas has benefited from rewrite of history the most. They never mentioned that he let Sami go on death row for a murder he committed. When it is mentioned, they blame Kate only and everyone pretend that Lucas had nothing to do with it. Before anyone says that it was Kate. Let me just clarify that Kate was the mastermind, but Lucas went along with it. Did he feel bad? yes at times. But when Sami was convicted, he sent her satelite message gloating about having full custody while Sami would rot in prison. So he did not feel that bad IMO.

Lucas' role in the death row story is the same as Ej's role in the Rafe 2 story. He is as guilty as Lucas because he went along with it. Yet Ej gets blame for the whole thing as if he was the mastermind instead of Stephano, but Lucas gets a free pass for his role in the death row. Double standard?

Another rewrite Lucas benefited from is Ej's shooting. We all know that he was the one who shot Ej and tried to skip town, they rewrote it to say it was Will. don't even get me started on John because they have rewritten his history so many times it is laughable. I could go on, but you get my point.

It does not bother me because it is nature of the beast, :shrug: but the double standard does however.
On Nicole kidnapping Syd, Eric continues to bring it up at every turn, so it's not forgotten or whitewashed. I bet she'll be accused of drugging and raping Eric soon and her past deeds will be the reason Eric and Brady believe she could be even remotely capable of that behavior I'm sure.

The Lucas shooting was not rewritten. At the time of the reveal that Will shot Ej, Tommy Casiello, a writer for Days at the time was asked on twitter if Will was always the shooter and he said he was, that it wasn't revealed at the time because of will's age or something... So in effect it wasn't a rewrite. As to death row and Lucas involvement, death row was brought up last year during the time that Ej was being falsely accused of killing Stefano. Sami's excuse for helping Ej was that she knew what it felt like to be framed for a crime she didn't commit and it landed her on death row. Of all the people she could have said that to guess who she chose? Lucas... So I don't see how an argument can be made for a double standard when Days refuses to have Sami and Ej realty DEAL with their very recent issues, they don't bother to mention it in their dialogue but the continue to make light and point out something that happened between Lumi almost 15 yrs ago. Plus IMHO Ej deserved to get shot back then and if it would have stayed as Lucas I wouldn't have cared.

One other thing regarding death row... While Lucas and Ej's roles in their respective schemes were similar, the writing for Ej showed him laughing and toasting to Rafe 2 taking advantage of Sami while Lucas was shown to be truly remorseful... To the point that he drank himself to a stupor everytime Kate stopped him from confessing. I can think of three times at least that Lucas was close to confessing before he actually ran into the chamber. Ej didn't give a crap about anything, he stood aside and laughed as Sami and his kids were put in danger by Stefano's scheme.
Lucas was a drunk even before death row. I imagined the added stress of lying and the fear of getting caught made things worst, but guilt is not the sole factor for Lucas drinking issues.

going back to Lumi convo in the Dmansion that day, when Sami mentioned death row, she made no reference to Lucas. She acted like Lucas had nothing to do with the whole thing and Lucas did not flinch. No guilt or awkwardness. If I did not know better, I would think Lucas was not even involved.

As a matter of fact, Sami has mentioned death row several times over the years, but Lucas' name was kept out of it each time. That is rewrite/whitewash IMO. if they are going to bring it up, why not include Lucas' involvement in it? Because it is ugly and they want it buried. I get that.

If you asked me, Lucas sending Sami that satellite message gloating about Sami rotting in prison while he gets full custody is as disgusting as Ej laughing about Rafe2. No wonder the writers want to move past those stories.

As far as Nicole goes, both Eric and Brady throw her checkered past in her face when she gets too self righteous. However, as far as I can remember, they don't specifically mention her kidnapping their niece. The only time it was mentioned to the best of my recollection is when Eric first came to town. Sami brought it up and Eric said she should forgive Nicole. Again they do not mention it because it is an inconvenient fact now that they want to write Nicole as the heroine.




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gailwinters
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spartan
Sep 12 2013, 08:57 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 12 2013, 04:32 PM
concerned
Sep 12 2013, 04:16 PM
Brewster
Sep 12 2013, 01:13 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
If this chemistry is so overwhelming why don't we all see it?

I don't believe there are too many anti Bope's out there?

Have you never met the Carbos????

Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its not a lack of chemistry that's mostly hurt Ejami's popularity with some folks, it's their stories - the rape, the Sydnap, the shooting, R2, etc. Moreover, Bope was built during the super couple era when rooting couples were clear and written for the long-term. Ejami came about in the era of shippers, fanbases wars and a bunch of different headwriters with different agendas.
Bingo. I'll go out on the limb with you. I've always thought EJami would have been a blip on the radar years ago if it weren't for their chemistry. Speaking for myself, I know the chemistry is what kept me hanging on through some of the craziest times. I would have just hung it up if any other couple went thru some of the crazy shit writing they put EJami through.
The chemistry between the two characters is the reason I started watching the show again in 2009, after a long break. I saw the two of them together in a scene and I immediately saw sparks flying. I could tell they had a story and their chemistry is what made me want to know what their relationship was. That same chemistry made me hang on even after I found out their history, hoping the writing would someday match up to the chemistry of the two actors.



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lysie
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Earlier today, there was some good conversation going on here between multiple view points and fanbases. Technically, we should have moved on because this is the wrong day, but when there's decent conversation going on, there's no point in doing that, IMO. Well. Something changed, so either move to a thread that's a little more relevant or go back to how we were doing it before. Thanks.
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supercool74
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Random observations. I liked how Sonny was talking about "our family"...not "our families"...like he is a part of Will's family or vice versa. It just sounded sweet.

And I don't want to start a whole EJ/Lucas war on here because I'm not partial to either but I find it odd that while Sami is in jail that Ally is still living at the Demira mansion with EJ. Where the hell is Lucas? I just can't see him being okay with that.
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S loves EJ


Maybe Lucas donīt want to take Allie away from her siblings, she is already away from her mother.
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