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Spoilers for the week of September 30th; *updated 9/23*
Topic Started: Sep 18 2013, 12:01 AM (40,014 Views)
lysie
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Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 11:56 AM
lysie
Sep 18 2013, 11:48 AM
Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 11:47 AM
LanaluvsBroe
Sep 18 2013, 10:49 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepWait, are you telling me the rape of Kayla is going to come up?
I 100% agree!!!

This needs to stay in the past....it has LONG LONG LONG been resolved between Jack and Kayla. Kayla has LONG forgiven him, Steve has forgiven him, The Brady's have forgiven him, Jennifer and The Horton's do not have issue with him and Jack has MORE than payed for that action and fully established character redemption.

I fear this is going to be used to paint Jack in a very very dark way and used as way to demean Jack in JJ's eyes and used in a way ONLY to pimp and prop Dannifer & Daniel fucking Jonas.

This is a very touchy thing for many Jack fans....I really hope this is NOT what Kayla brings up to JJ....but I just don't see what else it could be.
Hmmm. Isn't this what gets on our nerves about other things the show keeps in the past?
I edited my last response to include that I DO feel his kids should definitely know about the rape and the dramatics of that would have been amazing with Jack still on the show....however I have ZERO faith in TPTB to execute this reveal properly....I fear this reveal will only be used as another plot point to just prop the Dannifer pairing, prop Daniel and further demean the importance of Jack as a character and Jack & Jennifer a pair.

Since I have no faith in the writers...yes I would prefer this to not play out...not under this regime.
Yeah, I can get behind you on that. I'm hopeful for a couple of days of good scenes, though, and that's the first time I've been hopeful about that in months.
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tomsawyer
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I don't know, maybe the rape stuff will be good. So far with TomSell, the stuff that I thought sounded like a good story at the outset ended up being boring. And the stuff I wasn't excited about ended up being good.
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LuvingLumi
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LUMI

tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 12:01 PM
I don't know, maybe the rape stuff will be good. So far with TomSell, the stuff that I thought sounded like a good story at the outset ended up being boring. And the stuff I wasn't excited about ended up being good.
What ended up being good that you were initially not excited about?
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Mitchapalooza
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Killing myself slowly

tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 12:01 PM
I don't know, maybe the rape stuff will be good. So far with TomSell, the stuff that I thought sounded like a good story at the outset ended up being boring. And the stuff I wasn't excited about ended up being good.
You have no idea how much I HOPE it plays out exactly how it should...and if they do execute it well and make sure the FULL history is explained....and Jennifer's true POV is played here...then I will be a happy DAYS viewer.

However, every other plot point involving JJ & Jennifer has been used as way to SHOVE the Dannifer pairing down our throats and lessen the importance of Jack and J&J as a pairing...so its hard to have faith and expect the best.
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Romancer66


tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 10:59 AM
MissLola
Sep 18 2013, 10:45 AM
I have no problem with Jack's rape of Kayla being brought up. I think it's a important issue. But they are really missing the point without Jack being there to have to address his children (and even Stephanie). This just seems like another big fuck you to Jack's memory to make Dr. Dan look like a saint. :flipoff:
Agreed. I love the potential drama of his kids finding out about the rape, but can't imagine how it will be good with a dead Jack and a propped Fetch.
I have my concerns about it too. If Jack were on canvas, this could be a powerful set-up. And it could ultimately lead to the idea that redemption is always possible. That a person can do something violent and shameful but atone for it by owning his misdeed and consciously working to become a better person who would never repeat such an act. Which is essentially what Jack did, and why his redemption arc worked so well. He was a flawed, imperfect man who experienced true remorse for his actions and worked hard to expiate his crime. He grew, evolved, and changed for the better. And ultimately he was forgiven by the person he wronged most, though I suspect he never forgave himself. I will be sickened if this is TomSell's way of getting JJ to reject the father who had grown into a very different person by the time JJ was born in favor of smarmy douchebag Daniel, whose character growth over almost six years has been minimal and who still shows evidence of sleazy, self-serving behavior while being fawned over by the whole damn town.
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Mitchapalooza
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Killing myself slowly

Romancer66
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 10:59 AM
MissLola
Sep 18 2013, 10:45 AM
I have no problem with Jack's rape of Kayla being brought up. I think it's a important issue. But they are really missing the point without Jack being there to have to address his children (and even Stephanie). This just seems like another big fuck you to Jack's memory to make Dr. Dan look like a saint. :flipoff:
Agreed. I love the potential drama of his kids finding out about the rape, but can't imagine how it will be good with a dead Jack and a propped Fetch.
I have my concerns about it too. If Jack were on canvas, this could be a powerful set-up. And it could ultimately lead to the idea that redemption is always possible. That a person can do something violent and shameful but atone for it by owning his misdeed and consciously working to become a better person who would never repeat such an act. Which is essentially what Jack did, and why his redemption arc worked so well. He was a flawed, imperfect man who experienced true remorse for his actions and worked hard to expiate his crime. He grew, evolved, and changed for the better. And ultimately he was forgiven by the person he wronged most, though I suspect he never forgave himself. I will be sickened if this is TomSell's way of getting JJ to reject the father who had grown into a very different person by the time JJ was born in favor of smarmy douchebag Daniel, whose character growth over almost six years has been minimal and who still shows evidence of sleazy, self-serving behavior while being fawned over by the whole damn town.
That is my fear that TomSell is going to use this rape in a way to have JJ REJECT his father, taint his memory and erase history to suggest that Jack was a BAD person (which he was NOT).

Not only that, but Daniel comes out smelling like a fucking rose....Saint Daniel and dirty rapist Jack...that is exactly how I think the show wants the viewers to see these two characters.

The show refuses to give up on Fetch despite their unpopularity and I kinda view the rape as the absolute LOWEST point the show can go to prop Daniel and trash Jack, to force acceptance that Daniel is a better man for Jennifer and a better father figure for Abby/JJ than Jack is.
Edited by Mitchapalooza, Sep 18 2013, 12:09 PM.
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JDeveraux_91
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Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 12:08 PM
Romancer66
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 10:59 AM
MissLola
Sep 18 2013, 10:45 AM
I have no problem with Jack's rape of Kayla being brought up. I think it's a important issue. But they are really missing the point without Jack being there to have to address his children (and even Stephanie). This just seems like another big fuck you to Jack's memory to make Dr. Dan look like a saint. :flipoff:
Agreed. I love the potential drama of his kids finding out about the rape, but can't imagine how it will be good with a dead Jack and a propped Fetch.
I have my concerns about it too. If Jack were on canvas, this could be a powerful set-up. And it could ultimately lead to the idea that redemption is always possible. That a person can do something violent and shameful but atone for it by owning his misdeed and consciously working to become a better person who would never repeat such an act. Which is essentially what Jack did, and why his redemption arc worked so well. He was a flawed, imperfect man who experienced true remorse for his actions and worked hard to expiate his crime. He grew, evolved, and changed for the better. And ultimately he was forgiven by the person he wronged most, though I suspect he never forgave himself. I will be sickened if this is TomSell's way of getting JJ to reject the father who had grown into a very different person by the time JJ was born in favor of smarmy douchebag Daniel, whose character growth over almost six years has been minimal and who still shows evidence of sleazy, self-serving behavior while being fawned over by the whole damn town.
That is my fear that TomSell is going to use this rape in a way to have JJ REJECT his father, taint his memory and erase history to suggest that Jack was a BAD person (which he was NOT).

Not only that, but Daniel comes out smelling like a fucking rose....Saint Daniel and dirty rapist Jack...that is exactly how I think the show wants the viewers to see these two characters.

The show refuses to give up on Fetch despite their unpopularity and I kinda view the rape as the absolute LOWEST point the show can go to prop Daniel and trash Jack, to force acceptance that Daniel is a better man for Jennifer and a better father figure for Abby/JJ than Jack is.
I share your fears and unfortunately, I think they are valid. If Jack was in Salem then the rape reveal would lead to real emotional drama and powerful scenes. They could go the route of telling about his redemption and how he changed, but that would paint him in a positive light so they won't do that. Without him on canvas, the only reason to bring up his past would be to once again trash his memory, make it sound like he and Jen's relationship was no big deal and of course, use it to show that Saint Daniel the Divine is a better man for Jennifer and her kids. :flipoff: I never thought TIIC would stoop this low. :soapbox:
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Sevprince


AFaithL
Sep 18 2013, 11:49 AM
EJ_SamiFF
Sep 18 2013, 09:58 AM


* Cameron demands to know what Abigailís hiding



None of your damn business, Cameron. You and Abigail are not a "couple". She doesn't owe you an explanation. She can fuck whoever she wants - in whatever manner she wants - and you don't have a right to get pissed off.

I think TPTB missed the boat with Chad and Abby. They should have done a Romeo and Juliet storyline with Jennifer trying to keep them apart. Then have Abby rebel against Jennifer.
This show seem to have two goals/rule. 1. Tell stories in the most boring and unimaginative way possible and ignore anything interesting that might arise from those boring stories despite our valiant effort. 2. Prob Dan and Dannifer at any cost. Use any character you can possible can.

See, a story like that would actually be interesting and they even have a hint of it with Jen and Adrienne approving Cameron over Chad but that would be interesting and mess with Abby's buddy time with her mother to pimp Dannifer. We can't have that. It would mess with rule number 2.
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lysie
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Didn't we already have the story with Jenn disapproving of Chad? I'm not really asking because I know that we did.
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tomsawyer
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LuvingLumi
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 12:01 PM
I don't know, maybe the rape stuff will be good. So far with TomSell, the stuff that I thought sounded like a good story at the outset ended up being boring. And the stuff I wasn't excited about ended up being good.
What ended up being good that you were initially not excited about?
Gabi's pregnancy, Gabi/Nick, Rafe/Kate (for the first couple of months)
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AFaithL


lysie
Sep 18 2013, 12:46 PM
Didn't we already have the story with Jenn disapproving of Chad? I'm not really asking because I know that we did.
It was more like a scene. Anyway, now that Chad's a villain, Jennifer will be proven "right". That sucks. I want her to hate/disapprove of whoever Abby's next love interest is, and have her be wrong about him. I want that angst between Abigail and Jennifer, as Abby rebels against her mother to be with a man her mother thinks is "bad" but who really isn't. I need those layers being added to Jennifer/Abby's relationship.

Kinda like how Hope had to rebel against disapproving Doug to be with Bo.
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lysie
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AFaithL
Sep 18 2013, 12:53 PM
lysie
Sep 18 2013, 12:46 PM
Didn't we already have the story with Jenn disapproving of Chad? I'm not really asking because I know that we did.
It was more like a scene. Anyway, now that Chad's a villain, Jennifer will be proven "right". That sucks. I want her to hate/disapprove of whoever Abby's next love interest is, and have her be wrong about him. I want that angst between Abigail and Jennifer, as Abby rebels against her mother to be with a man her mother thinks is "bad" but who really isn't. I need those layers being added to Jennifer/Abby's relationship.

Kinda like how Hope had to rebel against disapproving Doug to be with Bo.
It was more than a scene. It was a story arc that Spring that even carried over a little into MarDar's stuff.
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Keith
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I'm honestly surprised TPTB haven't taken the tac of using the rape in the past unfairly to make Jack look bad. And I hope they don't make Jennifer have the rape still bothering her. She mentioned her own rape by Lawrence no longer bothered her under Tomsell/Higley when it came up during first run Danifer/Carly.
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OliveAnn


JarlenaLante
Sep 18 2013, 11:26 AM
Yes, the history of Jack raping Kayla should come to light and Jack's children should have to deal with this. On GH they have had all of Luke's children find out about his raping Laura. And yes, it would be much more dramatic with Jack alive and on canvas.
It would work much better if all the Johnsons were on the show, especially the children. How do Abby and J.J. live with the knowledge that their father raped their aunt? How do Stephanie and Joey get along with their cousins, knowing what their uncle did to their mother? How do Jack and Kayla get along once the past is brought up again? How does Steve cope with being stuck between his brother and his wife? Whose side, if anybody's, do Adrienne, Sonny and Justin take? So much potential and every single ounce of it wasted.
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LanaluvsBroe
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Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 12:08 PM
Romancer66
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 10:59 AM
MissLola
Sep 18 2013, 10:45 AM
I have no problem with Jack's rape of Kayla being brought up. I think it's a important issue. But they are really missing the point without Jack being there to have to address his children (and even Stephanie). This just seems like another big fuck you to Jack's memory to make Dr. Dan look like a saint. :flipoff:
Agreed. I love the potential drama of his kids finding out about the rape, but can't imagine how it will be good with a dead Jack and a propped Fetch.
I have my concerns about it too. If Jack were on canvas, this could be a powerful set-up. And it could ultimately lead to the idea that redemption is always possible. That a person can do something violent and shameful but atone for it by owning his misdeed and consciously working to become a better person who would never repeat such an act. Which is essentially what Jack did, and why his redemption arc worked so well. He was a flawed, imperfect man who experienced true remorse for his actions and worked hard to expiate his crime. He grew, evolved, and changed for the better. And ultimately he was forgiven by the person he wronged most, though I suspect he never forgave himself. I will be sickened if this is TomSell's way of getting JJ to reject the father who had grown into a very different person by the time JJ was born in favor of smarmy douchebag Daniel, whose character growth over almost six years has been minimal and who still shows evidence of sleazy, self-serving behavior while being fawned over by the whole damn town.
That is my fear that TomSell is going to use this rape in a way to have JJ REJECT his father, taint his memory and erase history to suggest that Jack was a BAD person (which he was NOT).

Not only that, but Daniel comes out smelling like a fucking rose....Saint Daniel and dirty rapist Jack...that is exactly how I think the show wants the viewers to see these two characters.

The show refuses to give up on Fetch despite their unpopularity and I kinda view the rape as the absolute LOWEST point the show can go to prop Daniel and trash Jack, to force acceptance that Daniel is a better man for Jennifer and a better father figure for Abby/JJ than Jack is.
They've already erased history to make Jack look like an absentee father who always made excuses so what's to stop them from going the rest of the way and negating his redemption? They clearly don't give a fuck about the character of Jack or his real history. I share your fears Mitch because because it's what I've come to expect from these hacks. They continue to shove Daniel/Dannifer down our throats all while demeaning or destroying various beloved characters to prop the sorry duo. Suffice to say this is going to backfire in their faces because erasing history and destroying characters is not going to endear Dannifer or Daniel to anyone. It'll do the opposite.
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LanaluvsBroe
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OliveAnn
Sep 18 2013, 01:20 PM
JarlenaLante
Sep 18 2013, 11:26 AM
Yes, the history of Jack raping Kayla should come to light and Jack's children should have to deal with this. On GH they have had all of Luke's children find out about his raping Laura. And yes, it would be much more dramatic with Jack alive and on canvas.
It would work much better if all the Johnsons were on the show, especially the children. How do Abby and J.J. live with the knowledge that their father raped their aunt? How do Stephanie and Joey get along with their cousins, knowing what their uncle did to their mother? How do Jack and Kayla get along once the past is brought up again? How does Steve cope with being stuck between his brother and his wife? Whose side, if anybody's, do Adrienne, Sonny and Justin take? So much potential and every single ounce of it wasted.
Because watching Dannifer break-up & make-up for the umpteenth time is so much more exciting. :flipoff: :soapbox: :sarcasm:
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lysie
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LanaluvsBroe
Sep 18 2013, 01:35 PM
Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 12:08 PM
Romancer66
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM
tomsawyer
Sep 18 2013, 10:59 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I have my concerns about it too. If Jack were on canvas, this could be a powerful set-up. And it could ultimately lead to the idea that redemption is always possible. That a person can do something violent and shameful but atone for it by owning his misdeed and consciously working to become a better person who would never repeat such an act. Which is essentially what Jack did, and why his redemption arc worked so well. He was a flawed, imperfect man who experienced true remorse for his actions and worked hard to expiate his crime. He grew, evolved, and changed for the better. And ultimately he was forgiven by the person he wronged most, though I suspect he never forgave himself. I will be sickened if this is TomSell's way of getting JJ to reject the father who had grown into a very different person by the time JJ was born in favor of smarmy douchebag Daniel, whose character growth over almost six years has been minimal and who still shows evidence of sleazy, self-serving behavior while being fawned over by the whole damn town.
That is my fear that TomSell is going to use this rape in a way to have JJ REJECT his father, taint his memory and erase history to suggest that Jack was a BAD person (which he was NOT).

Not only that, but Daniel comes out smelling like a fucking rose....Saint Daniel and dirty rapist Jack...that is exactly how I think the show wants the viewers to see these two characters.

The show refuses to give up on Fetch despite their unpopularity and I kinda view the rape as the absolute LOWEST point the show can go to prop Daniel and trash Jack, to force acceptance that Daniel is a better man for Jennifer and a better father figure for Abby/JJ than Jack is.
They've already erased history to make Jack look like an absentee father who always made excuses so what's to stop them from going the rest of the way and negating his redemption? They clearly don't give a fuck about the character of Jack or his real history. I share your fears Mitch because because it's what I've come to expect from these hacks. They continue to shove Daniel/Dannifer down our throats all while demeaning or destroying various beloved characters to prop the sorry duo. Suffice to say this is going to backfire in their faces because erasing history and destroying characters is not going to endear Dannifer or Daniel to anyone. It'll do the opposite.
And this is where you lose me. This is the exact opposite of erasing history.
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Oak Alley
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AFaithL
Sep 18 2013, 11:49 AM
EJ_SamiFF
Sep 18 2013, 09:58 AM


* Cameron demands to know what Abigailís hiding



None of your damn business, Cameron. You and Abigail are not a "couple". She doesn't owe you an explanation. She can fuck whoever she wants - in whatever manner she wants - and you don't have a right to get pissed off.

I think TPTB missed the boat with Chad and Abby. They should have done a Romeo and Juliet storyline with Jennifer trying to keep them apart. Then have Abby rebel against Jennifer.
so much this!
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Mitchapalooza
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Killing myself slowly

lysie
Sep 18 2013, 01:37 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Sep 18 2013, 01:35 PM
Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 12:08 PM
Romancer66
Sep 18 2013, 12:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That is my fear that TomSell is going to use this rape in a way to have JJ REJECT his father, taint his memory and erase history to suggest that Jack was a BAD person (which he was NOT).

Not only that, but Daniel comes out smelling like a fucking rose....Saint Daniel and dirty rapist Jack...that is exactly how I think the show wants the viewers to see these two characters.

The show refuses to give up on Fetch despite their unpopularity and I kinda view the rape as the absolute LOWEST point the show can go to prop Daniel and trash Jack, to force acceptance that Daniel is a better man for Jennifer and a better father figure for Abby/JJ than Jack is.
They've already erased history to make Jack look like an absentee father who always made excuses so what's to stop them from going the rest of the way and negating his redemption? They clearly don't give a fuck about the character of Jack or his real history. I share your fears Mitch because because it's what I've come to expect from these hacks. They continue to shove Daniel/Dannifer down our throats all while demeaning or destroying various beloved characters to prop the sorry duo. Suffice to say this is going to backfire in their faces because erasing history and destroying characters is not going to endear Dannifer or Daniel to anyone. It'll do the opposite.
And this is where you lose me. This is the exact opposite of erasing history.
I think Lanaluvsbroe is referring to the show essentially erasing the history of Jack's redemption, by implying that characters still have issue with Jack's rape, when all of that was very much settled in the past.

Its more about the history AFTER the rape, than the rape it self that Jack/J&J fans are concerned about.

We know its going to be used in a way to push Dannifer, make Daniel look better and tarnish Jack's image.

Edited by Mitchapalooza, Sep 18 2013, 01:52 PM.
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lysie
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Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 01:46 PM
lysie
Sep 18 2013, 01:37 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Sep 18 2013, 01:35 PM
Mitchapalooza
Sep 18 2013, 12:08 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
They've already erased history to make Jack look like an absentee father who always made excuses so what's to stop them from going the rest of the way and negating his redemption? They clearly don't give a fuck about the character of Jack or his real history. I share your fears Mitch because because it's what I've come to expect from these hacks. They continue to shove Daniel/Dannifer down our throats all while demeaning or destroying various beloved characters to prop the sorry duo. Suffice to say this is going to backfire in their faces because erasing history and destroying characters is not going to endear Dannifer or Daniel to anyone. It'll do the opposite.
And this is where you lose me. This is the exact opposite of erasing history.
He is referring to the show essentially erasing the history of Jack's redemption, by implying that characters still have issue with Jack's rape, when all of that was very much settled in the past.

Its more about the history AFTER the rape, than the rape it self that Jack/J&J fans are concerned about.

We know its going to be used in a way to push Dannifer, make Daniel look better and tarnish Jack's image.
Kayla does still have an issue with it. Forgiveness didn't erase it. I agree about the Daniel aspect, but otherwise, it shouldn't be an issue that they're bringing it up. Whether or not people forgave him at the time, it still happened and it still should have some affect on people, and it's still drama. And quite frankly, it should tarnish part of Jack's image. What it does to Jack, IMO, is separate from what it should do to Daniel.
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