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Wednesday, Sept 18th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Sep 18 2013, 12:31 AM (12,460 Views)
AngelOB
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Life is awesome

SocRMum1
Sep 19 2013, 11:10 AM
I was so relieved to see that the EJ/Stefano scenes played out SOOOO much better than I feared. I've often cringed when JS has had to play the extremely emotional scenes because he can take it over the top - and while he skirted that initially with these scenes I felt like he pulled it back in and nailed it with the portrayal of EJ's flat out desperation. I thought the writing did a good job of showing that EJ had tried absolutely everything else to free Sami - setting up the deposit in the bank account, going to Trask to offer both Stefano and himself, preparing to take his family and run with the fake passports only to finally realize that Stefano had been a step ahead of him the entire time. He knew the trial was winding down - there was little time left to do anything to change the clear outcome of a guilty verdict. So in the end, he did the only thing left to him which was to grovel, beg and promise to meet every one of Stefano's conditions. The mixed look of disgust, shame and hatred as he was standing back up from the floor was great. Even later, as he was signing the paperwork and essentially waiting for Daddy to dismiss him so he could go to the trial I thought JS conveyed so much in just his body language. EJ is beaten and bowed...but there is no doubt his deep seated anger and humiliation is going to fuel his future decisions. Given EJ's history of anger fueled decisions things probably are going to be pretty rocky for him - but it sets up all sorts of great storyline potential.

JM was just outstanding. It was so nice to see the Stefano of old again...not even a shred of sympathy for EJ. That's how it needed to be. I've always enjoyed the back and forth of their relationship but given the things they've both dealt with in the past year or so - I loved seeing Stefano being so ruthless. Ruthless Stefano is likely to only further alienate EJ, just as he did with Tony all those years.

These scenes were absolutely Emmy bait for both JS and JM - but I feel like they both delivered the goods.

I thought AS was pretty great today, too. I appreciate that she's playing this as Sami trying to be stoic for everyone - even as they are sitting on the stand essentially piling the dirt over her coffin with shovels. Her relief at seeing EJ made sense to me - in a room full of judgments and hostility I can only imagine how much she needed his support.

I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if Justin continues to have story after the conclusion of the trial. It only makes sense to me that Stefano may have him in his sights for his part in helping EJ take control of the company. I'm hoping we'll continue to see EJ and Justin interacting - and perhaps EJ trying to help Justin stay ahead of Stefano. That may just be wishful thinking on my part, though.

Abby's outfit was horrendous. As pretty a girl as she is - how do they manage to find anything that looks that ridiculous on her? Cameron is a snooze and Chad is no longer of any value...so the entire storyline is a waste of airtime. :(


The scenes from yesterday's episode are exactly the way I want to see the EJ/Stefano relationship go on from this point forward. EJ can't manage to extricate himself from Stefano's influence, while clearly wanting nothing to do with him, while Stefano hangs on to him in the misguided attempt to keep EJ in line for the sake of the family. Stefano's understanding of family is so out of whack with reality, it's no wonder EJ ended up as messed up as he was all of those years. Stefano has taught him to hold on to what you love with an iron grip, and if that fails, punishment is always an acceptable course of action. For EJ to have evolved beyond that line of thinking is pretty remarkable. For many years now he's been about 'how can I get what I want?', to see him now throw his independence from Stefano away and literally beg on his knees for Stefano to do what he can in order to get Sami out of a life sentence is quite the turnaround for EJ.

Sami has always been his Achilles heel. I think initially when they first met he was attracted to her physically as well as because he could see with his own eyes that she didn't quite fit in with everyone else. She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family, I think he gets that loving someone is more than about what makes himself happy. The shift away from self-centered love and gratifying his own emotional needs towards putting someone else' needs above his own, regardless of the costs to himself, has been pretty cool to watch as an EJ fan from way back.
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lysie
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AngelOB
Sep 19 2013, 06:17 PM
SocRMum1
Sep 19 2013, 11:10 AM
I was so relieved to see that the EJ/Stefano scenes played out SOOOO much better than I feared. I've often cringed when JS has had to play the extremely emotional scenes because he can take it over the top - and while he skirted that initially with these scenes I felt like he pulled it back in and nailed it with the portrayal of EJ's flat out desperation. I thought the writing did a good job of showing that EJ had tried absolutely everything else to free Sami - setting up the deposit in the bank account, going to Trask to offer both Stefano and himself, preparing to take his family and run with the fake passports only to finally realize that Stefano had been a step ahead of him the entire time. He knew the trial was winding down - there was little time left to do anything to change the clear outcome of a guilty verdict. So in the end, he did the only thing left to him which was to grovel, beg and promise to meet every one of Stefano's conditions. The mixed look of disgust, shame and hatred as he was standing back up from the floor was great. Even later, as he was signing the paperwork and essentially waiting for Daddy to dismiss him so he could go to the trial I thought JS conveyed so much in just his body language. EJ is beaten and bowed...but there is no doubt his deep seated anger and humiliation is going to fuel his future decisions. Given EJ's history of anger fueled decisions things probably are going to be pretty rocky for him - but it sets up all sorts of great storyline potential.

JM was just outstanding. It was so nice to see the Stefano of old again...not even a shred of sympathy for EJ. That's how it needed to be. I've always enjoyed the back and forth of their relationship but given the things they've both dealt with in the past year or so - I loved seeing Stefano being so ruthless. Ruthless Stefano is likely to only further alienate EJ, just as he did with Tony all those years.

These scenes were absolutely Emmy bait for both JS and JM - but I feel like they both delivered the goods.

I thought AS was pretty great today, too. I appreciate that she's playing this as Sami trying to be stoic for everyone - even as they are sitting on the stand essentially piling the dirt over her coffin with shovels. Her relief at seeing EJ made sense to me - in a room full of judgments and hostility I can only imagine how much she needed his support.

I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if Justin continues to have story after the conclusion of the trial. It only makes sense to me that Stefano may have him in his sights for his part in helping EJ take control of the company. I'm hoping we'll continue to see EJ and Justin interacting - and perhaps EJ trying to help Justin stay ahead of Stefano. That may just be wishful thinking on my part, though.

Abby's outfit was horrendous. As pretty a girl as she is - how do they manage to find anything that looks that ridiculous on her? Cameron is a snooze and Chad is no longer of any value...so the entire storyline is a waste of airtime. :(


The scenes from yesterday's episode are exactly the way I want to see the EJ/Stefano relationship go on from this point forward. EJ can't manage to extricate himself from Stefano's influence, while clearly wanting nothing to do with him, while Stefano hangs on to him in the misguided attempt to keep EJ in line for the sake of the family. Stefano's understanding of family is so out of whack with reality, it's no wonder EJ ended up as messed up as he was all of those years. Stefano has taught him to hold on to what you love with an iron grip, and if that fails, punishment is always an acceptable course of action. For EJ to have evolved beyond that line of thinking is pretty remarkable. For many years now he's been about 'how can I get what I want?', to see him now throw his independence from Stefano away and literally beg on his knees for Stefano to do what he can in order to get Sami out of a life sentence is quite the turnaround for EJ.

Sami has always been his Achilles heel. I think initially when they first met he was attracted to her physically as well as because he could see with his own eyes that she didn't quite fit in with everyone else. She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family, I think he gets that loving someone is more than about what makes himself happy. The shift away from self-centered love and gratifying his own emotional needs towards putting someone else' needs above his own, regardless of the costs to himself, has been pretty cool to watch as an EJ fan from way back.
This is just so not Sami and her family at all. Not even a little. AND...if this were anything like Sami and her family that would make her way less compatible with EJ and much more like the girl Rafe and Austin thought she was.
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SocRMum1
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Much prefers sweevil, snarky EJ over Father Figure Fucktard Eejiot.

lysie
Sep 19 2013, 06:50 PM
AngelOB
Sep 19 2013, 06:17 PM
SocRMum1
Sep 19 2013, 11:10 AM
I was so relieved to see that the EJ/Stefano scenes played out SOOOO much better than I feared. I've often cringed when JS has had to play the extremely emotional scenes because he can take it over the top - and while he skirted that initially with these scenes I felt like he pulled it back in and nailed it with the portrayal of EJ's flat out desperation. I thought the writing did a good job of showing that EJ had tried absolutely everything else to free Sami - setting up the deposit in the bank account, going to Trask to offer both Stefano and himself, preparing to take his family and run with the fake passports only to finally realize that Stefano had been a step ahead of him the entire time. He knew the trial was winding down - there was little time left to do anything to change the clear outcome of a guilty verdict. So in the end, he did the only thing left to him which was to grovel, beg and promise to meet every one of Stefano's conditions. The mixed look of disgust, shame and hatred as he was standing back up from the floor was great. Even later, as he was signing the paperwork and essentially waiting for Daddy to dismiss him so he could go to the trial I thought JS conveyed so much in just his body language. EJ is beaten and bowed...but there is no doubt his deep seated anger and humiliation is going to fuel his future decisions. Given EJ's history of anger fueled decisions things probably are going to be pretty rocky for him - but it sets up all sorts of great storyline potential.

JM was just outstanding. It was so nice to see the Stefano of old again...not even a shred of sympathy for EJ. That's how it needed to be. I've always enjoyed the back and forth of their relationship but given the things they've both dealt with in the past year or so - I loved seeing Stefano being so ruthless. Ruthless Stefano is likely to only further alienate EJ, just as he did with Tony all those years.

These scenes were absolutely Emmy bait for both JS and JM - but I feel like they both delivered the goods.

I thought AS was pretty great today, too. I appreciate that she's playing this as Sami trying to be stoic for everyone - even as they are sitting on the stand essentially piling the dirt over her coffin with shovels. Her relief at seeing EJ made sense to me - in a room full of judgments and hostility I can only imagine how much she needed his support.

I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if Justin continues to have story after the conclusion of the trial. It only makes sense to me that Stefano may have him in his sights for his part in helping EJ take control of the company. I'm hoping we'll continue to see EJ and Justin interacting - and perhaps EJ trying to help Justin stay ahead of Stefano. That may just be wishful thinking on my part, though.

Abby's outfit was horrendous. As pretty a girl as she is - how do they manage to find anything that looks that ridiculous on her? Cameron is a snooze and Chad is no longer of any value...so the entire storyline is a waste of airtime. :(


The scenes from yesterday's episode are exactly the way I want to see the EJ/Stefano relationship go on from this point forward. EJ can't manage to extricate himself from Stefano's influence, while clearly wanting nothing to do with him, while Stefano hangs on to him in the misguided attempt to keep EJ in line for the sake of the family. Stefano's understanding of family is so out of whack with reality, it's no wonder EJ ended up as messed up as he was all of those years. Stefano has taught him to hold on to what you love with an iron grip, and if that fails, punishment is always an acceptable course of action. For EJ to have evolved beyond that line of thinking is pretty remarkable. For many years now he's been about 'how can I get what I want?', to see him now throw his independence from Stefano away and literally beg on his knees for Stefano to do what he can in order to get Sami out of a life sentence is quite the turnaround for EJ.

Sami has always been his Achilles heel. I think initially when they first met he was attracted to her physically as well as because he could see with his own eyes that she didn't quite fit in with everyone else. She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family, I think he gets that loving someone is more than about what makes himself happy. The shift away from self-centered love and gratifying his own emotional needs towards putting someone else' needs above his own, regardless of the costs to himself, has been pretty cool to watch as an EJ fan from way back.
This is just so not Sami and her family at all. Not even a little. AND...if this were anything like Sami and her family that would make her way less compatible with EJ and much more like the girl Rafe and Austin thought she was.
This wasn't the Sami we saw for the first 10 or 15 years AS has played her - but this is how Sami has been written the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, they pretty much beat it over our heads during the whole 'vendetta' storyline - Sami was written to be making a huge sacrifice to save her family from any more suffering at the hands of Stefano. It wasn't the best written story certainly...but it is what they laid out there. Even with this most recent story - Sami's actions were all about defending Will and protecting him from the consequences of shooting EJ way back when. Otherwise, it would have been far easier to prove that Bernardi was a dirty cop. The reason she (and EJ) held back was they knew in the end it would implicate Will when the entire story came out.
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lysie
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SocRMum1
Sep 20 2013, 09:43 AM
lysie
Sep 19 2013, 06:50 PM
AngelOB
Sep 19 2013, 06:17 PM
SocRMum1
Sep 19 2013, 11:10 AM
I was so relieved to see that the EJ/Stefano scenes played out SOOOO much better than I feared. I've often cringed when JS has had to play the extremely emotional scenes because he can take it over the top - and while he skirted that initially with these scenes I felt like he pulled it back in and nailed it with the portrayal of EJ's flat out desperation. I thought the writing did a good job of showing that EJ had tried absolutely everything else to free Sami - setting up the deposit in the bank account, going to Trask to offer both Stefano and himself, preparing to take his family and run with the fake passports only to finally realize that Stefano had been a step ahead of him the entire time. He knew the trial was winding down - there was little time left to do anything to change the clear outcome of a guilty verdict. So in the end, he did the only thing left to him which was to grovel, beg and promise to meet every one of Stefano's conditions. The mixed look of disgust, shame and hatred as he was standing back up from the floor was great. Even later, as he was signing the paperwork and essentially waiting for Daddy to dismiss him so he could go to the trial I thought JS conveyed so much in just his body language. EJ is beaten and bowed...but there is no doubt his deep seated anger and humiliation is going to fuel his future decisions. Given EJ's history of anger fueled decisions things probably are going to be pretty rocky for him - but it sets up all sorts of great storyline potential.

JM was just outstanding. It was so nice to see the Stefano of old again...not even a shred of sympathy for EJ. That's how it needed to be. I've always enjoyed the back and forth of their relationship but given the things they've both dealt with in the past year or so - I loved seeing Stefano being so ruthless. Ruthless Stefano is likely to only further alienate EJ, just as he did with Tony all those years.

These scenes were absolutely Emmy bait for both JS and JM - but I feel like they both delivered the goods.

I thought AS was pretty great today, too. I appreciate that she's playing this as Sami trying to be stoic for everyone - even as they are sitting on the stand essentially piling the dirt over her coffin with shovels. Her relief at seeing EJ made sense to me - in a room full of judgments and hostility I can only imagine how much she needed his support.

I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if Justin continues to have story after the conclusion of the trial. It only makes sense to me that Stefano may have him in his sights for his part in helping EJ take control of the company. I'm hoping we'll continue to see EJ and Justin interacting - and perhaps EJ trying to help Justin stay ahead of Stefano. That may just be wishful thinking on my part, though.

Abby's outfit was horrendous. As pretty a girl as she is - how do they manage to find anything that looks that ridiculous on her? Cameron is a snooze and Chad is no longer of any value...so the entire storyline is a waste of airtime. :(


The scenes from yesterday's episode are exactly the way I want to see the EJ/Stefano relationship go on from this point forward. EJ can't manage to extricate himself from Stefano's influence, while clearly wanting nothing to do with him, while Stefano hangs on to him in the misguided attempt to keep EJ in line for the sake of the family. Stefano's understanding of family is so out of whack with reality, it's no wonder EJ ended up as messed up as he was all of those years. Stefano has taught him to hold on to what you love with an iron grip, and if that fails, punishment is always an acceptable course of action. For EJ to have evolved beyond that line of thinking is pretty remarkable. For many years now he's been about 'how can I get what I want?', to see him now throw his independence from Stefano away and literally beg on his knees for Stefano to do what he can in order to get Sami out of a life sentence is quite the turnaround for EJ.

Sami has always been his Achilles heel. I think initially when they first met he was attracted to her physically as well as because he could see with his own eyes that she didn't quite fit in with everyone else. She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family, I think he gets that loving someone is more than about what makes himself happy. The shift away from self-centered love and gratifying his own emotional needs towards putting someone else' needs above his own, regardless of the costs to himself, has been pretty cool to watch as an EJ fan from way back.
This is just so not Sami and her family at all. Not even a little. AND...if this were anything like Sami and her family that would make her way less compatible with EJ and much more like the girl Rafe and Austin thought she was.
This wasn't the Sami we saw for the first 10 or 15 years AS has played her - but this is how Sami has been written the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, they pretty much beat it over our heads during the whole 'vendetta' storyline - Sami was written to be making a huge sacrifice to save her family from any more suffering at the hands of Stefano. It wasn't the best written story certainly...but it is what they laid out there. Even with this most recent story - Sami's actions were all about defending Will and protecting him from the consequences of shooting EJ way back when. Otherwise, it would have been far easier to prove that Bernardi was a dirty cop. The reason she (and EJ) held back was they knew in the end it would implicate Will when the entire story came out.
Most of that 5-6 years was full of people (including you) talking about how out of character she was. But I only think that one year was written the way you're saying, and even that wasn't her making a sacrifice for her family, IMO. It was her doing what she wanted no matter what her family said as has pretty much always been the case. Again, if that's how Sami is now, then they achieved making her Carrie/Belle. I don't happen to think that's the case at all, but that's not my description of her. Once Sami becomes the poor pathetic victim of her big mean family, not only does that became a complete rewrite of history (and even history as recent as what aired yesterday) but she loses the edge that would have made her compatible with EJ in the first place.
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spartan
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lysie
Sep 20 2013, 10:44 AM
SocRMum1
Sep 20 2013, 09:43 AM
lysie
Sep 19 2013, 06:50 PM
AngelOB
Sep 19 2013, 06:17 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family, I think he gets that loving someone is more than about what makes himself happy. The shift away from self-centered love and gratifying his own emotional needs towards putting someone else' needs above his own, regardless of the costs to himself, has been pretty cool to watch as an EJ fan from way back.
This is just so not Sami and her family at all. Not even a little. AND...if this were anything like Sami and her family that would make her way less compatible with EJ and much more like the girl Rafe and Austin thought she was.
This wasn't the Sami we saw for the first 10 or 15 years AS has played her - but this is how Sami has been written the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, they pretty much beat it over our heads during the whole 'vendetta' storyline - Sami was written to be making a huge sacrifice to save her family from any more suffering at the hands of Stefano. It wasn't the best written story certainly...but it is what they laid out there. Even with this most recent story - Sami's actions were all about defending Will and protecting him from the consequences of shooting EJ way back when. Otherwise, it would have been far easier to prove that Bernardi was a dirty cop. The reason she (and EJ) held back was they knew in the end it would implicate Will when the entire story came out.
Most of that 5-6 years was full of people (including you) talking about how out of character she was. But I only think that one year was written the way you're saying, and even that wasn't her making a sacrifice for her family, IMO. It was her doing what she wanted no matter what her family said as has pretty much always been the case. Again, if that's how Sami is now, then they achieved making her Carrie/Belle. I don't happen to think that's the case at all, but that's not my description of her. Once Sami becomes the poor pathetic victim of her big mean family, not only does that became a complete rewrite of history (and even history as recent as what aired yesterday) but she loses the edge that would have made her compatible with EJ in the first place.
I don't know if I'm even following what you are saying, but Sami has always felt like the black sheep of the family. I always saw this as more about Sami's own internal dialogue and insecurities rather than anything her family did or didn't do to her intentionally. No doubt there were some actions by her family that reinforced her insecurities, but I never saw that as the root cause.

The way it's been written, she gets that acceptance from EJ that she has craved and never *felt* from her family, regardless of what they did or not. I would argue Caroline may be the exception to that rule for the most part Sami felt like she didn't measure up. I think EJ also gets that acceptance from Sami as they are both twisted, impulsive and passionate and equally insecure at the very core. They get that understanding from each other even though it often results in their individual self-destruction and/or the demise of their relationship.
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lysie
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spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:14 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 10:44 AM
SocRMum1
Sep 20 2013, 09:43 AM
lysie
Sep 19 2013, 06:50 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family,
This wasn't the Sami we saw for the first 10 or 15 years AS has played her - but this is how Sami has been written the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, they pretty much beat it over our heads during the whole 'vendetta' storyline - Sami was written to be making a huge sacrifice to save her family from any more suffering at the hands of Stefano. It wasn't the best written story certainly...but it is what they laid out there. Even with this most recent story - Sami's actions were all about defending Will and protecting him from the consequences of shooting EJ way back when. Otherwise, it would have been far easier to prove that Bernardi was a dirty cop. The reason she (and EJ) held back was they knew in the end it would implicate Will when the entire story came out.
Most of that 5-6 years was full of people (including you) talking about how out of character she was. But I only think that one year was written the way you're saying, and even that wasn't her making a sacrifice for her family, IMO. It was her doing what she wanted no matter what her family said as has pretty much always been the case. Again, if that's how Sami is now, then they achieved making her Carrie/Belle. I don't happen to think that's the case at all, but that's not my description of her. Once Sami becomes the poor pathetic victim of her big mean family, not only does that became a complete rewrite of history (and even history as recent as what aired yesterday) but she loses the edge that would have made her compatible with EJ in the first place.
I don't know if I'm even following what you are saying, but Sami has always felt like the black sheep of the family. I always saw this as more about Sami's own internal dialogue and insecurities rather than anything her family did or didn't do to her intentionally. No doubt there were some actions by her family that reinforced her insecurities, but I never saw that as the root cause.

The way it's been written, she gets that acceptance from EJ that she has craved and never *felt* from her family, regardless of what they did or not. I would argue Caroline may be the exception to that rule for the most part Sami felt like she didn't measure up. I think EJ also gets that acceptance from Sami as they are both twisted, impulsive and passionate and equally insecure at the very core. They get that understanding from each other even though it often results in their individual self-destruction and/or the demise of their relationship.
I think black sheep is different from feeling in accepted or even like you don't measure up. If Sami is painted as the victim as she was earlier, that's just plain inaccurate. And there was never an issue with her family accepting her. There's been a lot of issues with Sami not accepting herself. No one in her family has tried to change her personality. They've told her to grow up, accept responsibilities for her mistakes, and stop committing crimes against people she supposedly loves, but that's not "not accepting" her. And it really hasn't been any different with Caroline.

Mostly, I'm specifically saying that in the post I quoted, Sami was painted as a victim. That's not accurate. And IMO, if it were accurate, that turns her into that exact character that people thought they were seeing with Rafe. In her case, I don't think she can be the victim and the fun bad girl at the same time. Which is fine because she's definitely not the victim.
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spartan
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lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:22 AM
spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:14 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 10:44 AM
SocRMum1
Sep 20 2013, 09:43 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family,
Most of that 5-6 years was full of people (including you) talking about how out of character she was. But I only think that one year was written the way you're saying, and even that wasn't her making a sacrifice for her family, IMO. It was her doing what she wanted no matter what her family said as has pretty much always been the case. Again, if that's how Sami is now, then they achieved making her Carrie/Belle. I don't happen to think that's the case at all, but that's not my description of her. Once Sami becomes the poor pathetic victim of her big mean family, not only does that became a complete rewrite of history (and even history as recent as what aired yesterday) but she loses the edge that would have made her compatible with EJ in the first place.
I don't know if I'm even following what you are saying, but Sami has always felt like the black sheep of the family. I always saw this as more about Sami's own internal dialogue and insecurities rather than anything her family did or didn't do to her intentionally. No doubt there were some actions by her family that reinforced her insecurities, but I never saw that as the root cause.

The way it's been written, she gets that acceptance from EJ that she has craved and never *felt* from her family, regardless of what they did or not. I would argue Caroline may be the exception to that rule for the most part Sami felt like she didn't measure up. I think EJ also gets that acceptance from Sami as they are both twisted, impulsive and passionate and equally insecure at the very core. They get that understanding from each other even though it often results in their individual self-destruction and/or the demise of their relationship.
I think black sheep is different from feeling in accepted or even like you don't measure up. If Sami is painted as the victim as she was earlier, that's just plain inaccurate. And there was never an issue with her family accepting her. There's been a lot of issues with Sami not accepting herself. No one in her family has tried to change her personality. They've told her to grow up, accept responsibilities for her mistakes, and stop committing crimes against people she supposedly loves, but that's not "not accepting" her. And it really hasn't been any different with Caroline.

Mostly, I'm specifically saying that in the post I quoted, Sami was painted as a victim. That's not accurate. And IMO, if it were accurate, that turns her into that exact character that people thought they were seeing with Rafe. In her case, I don't think she can be the victim and the fun bad girl at the same time. Which is fine because she's definitely not the victim.
Well, your first sentence is why we are disagreeing then. I see being the black sheep of the family going hand in hand with feeling acceptance or like you don't measure up.

Often, I think kids become the black sheep because they don't feel like they fit in with the family in the way they should and aren't accepted as they are or measure up as they are. They act out and take on the black sheep role cuz they don't know how else to define their role in the family. Negative reinforcement to their own insecure way of defining their family role and individual qualities.

Look at me, give me a pair of gloves and a couch and I'm Marlena!

I get what you are saying though in the rest of your post.
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lysie
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spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:30 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:22 AM
spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:14 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 10:44 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family,
I don't know if I'm even following what you are saying, but Sami has always felt like the black sheep of the family. I always saw this as more about Sami's own internal dialogue and insecurities rather than anything her family did or didn't do to her intentionally. No doubt there were some actions by her family that reinforced her insecurities, but I never saw that as the root cause.

The way it's been written, she gets that acceptance from EJ that she has craved and never *felt* from her family, regardless of what they did or not. I would argue Caroline may be the exception to that rule for the most part Sami felt like she didn't measure up. I think EJ also gets that acceptance from Sami as they are both twisted, impulsive and passionate and equally insecure at the very core. They get that understanding from each other even though it often results in their individual self-destruction and/or the demise of their relationship.
I think black sheep is different from feeling in accepted or even like you don't measure up. If Sami is painted as the victim as she was earlier, that's just plain inaccurate. And there was never an issue with her family accepting her. There's been a lot of issues with Sami not accepting herself. No one in her family has tried to change her personality. They've told her to grow up, accept responsibilities for her mistakes, and stop committing crimes against people she supposedly loves, but that's not "not accepting" her. And it really hasn't been any different with Caroline.

Mostly, I'm specifically saying that in the post I quoted, Sami was painted as a victim. That's not accurate. And IMO, if it were accurate, that turns her into that exact character that people thought they were seeing with Rafe. In her case, I don't think she can be the victim and the fun bad girl at the same time. Which is fine because she's definitely not the victim.
Well, your first sentence is why we are disagreeing then. I see being the black sheep of the family going hand in hand with feeling acceptance or like you don't measure up.

Often, I think kids become the black sheep because they don't feel like they fit in with the family in the way they should and aren't accepted as they are or measure up as they are. They act out and take on the black sheep role cuz they don't know how else to define their role in the family. Negative reinforcement to their own insecure way of defining their family role and individual qualities.

Look at me, give me a pair of gloves and a couch and I'm Marlena!

I get what you are saying though in the rest of your post.
I just don't think that applies to Sami. Being the black sheep of the family wasn't the issue. It was Austin loving Carrie and not her that was the issue. She would use her black sheep claims to deflect from the things she had done but even she knows she was full of it. When she's more stable she usually admits that to herself.
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spartan
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lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:34 AM
spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:30 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:22 AM
spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:14 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family,
I think black sheep is different from feeling in accepted or even like you don't measure up. If Sami is painted as the victim as she was earlier, that's just plain inaccurate. And there was never an issue with her family accepting her. There's been a lot of issues with Sami not accepting herself. No one in her family has tried to change her personality. They've told her to grow up, accept responsibilities for her mistakes, and stop committing crimes against people she supposedly loves, but that's not "not accepting" her. And it really hasn't been any different with Caroline.

Mostly, I'm specifically saying that in the post I quoted, Sami was painted as a victim. That's not accurate. And IMO, if it were accurate, that turns her into that exact character that people thought they were seeing with Rafe. In her case, I don't think she can be the victim and the fun bad girl at the same time. Which is fine because she's definitely not the victim.
Well, your first sentence is why we are disagreeing then. I see being the black sheep of the family going hand in hand with feeling acceptance or like you don't measure up.

Often, I think kids become the black sheep because they don't feel like they fit in with the family in the way they should and aren't accepted as they are or measure up as they are. They act out and take on the black sheep role cuz they don't know how else to define their role in the family. Negative reinforcement to their own insecure way of defining their family role and individual qualities.

Look at me, give me a pair of gloves and a couch and I'm Marlena!

I get what you are saying though in the rest of your post.
I just don't think that applies to Sami. Being the black sheep of the family wasn't the issue. It was Austin loving Carrie and not her that was the issue. She would use her black sheep claims to deflect from the things she had done but even she knows she was full of it. When she's more stable she usually admits that to herself.
Well, I couldn't disagree more here. Austin loving Carrie wasn't Sami's only issue. Not by a longshot.
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lysie
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spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:37 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:34 AM
spartan
Sep 20 2013, 11:30 AM
lysie
Sep 20 2013, 11:22 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep She was accepted as long as she behaved a certain way. Now that he's gotten to actually know her over all of these years and has seen the sacrifices (often made at EJ's insistence in the past) she's made for her family,
Well, your first sentence is why we are disagreeing then. I see being the black sheep of the family going hand in hand with feeling acceptance or like you don't measure up.

Often, I think kids become the black sheep because they don't feel like they fit in with the family in the way they should and aren't accepted as they are or measure up as they are. They act out and take on the black sheep role cuz they don't know how else to define their role in the family. Negative reinforcement to their own insecure way of defining their family role and individual qualities.

Look at me, give me a pair of gloves and a couch and I'm Marlena!

I get what you are saying though in the rest of your post.
I just don't think that applies to Sami. Being the black sheep of the family wasn't the issue. It was Austin loving Carrie and not her that was the issue. She would use her black sheep claims to deflect from the things she had done but even she knows she was full of it. When she's more stable she usually admits that to herself.
Well, I couldn't disagree more here. Austin loving Carrie wasn't Sami's only issue. Not by a longshot.
It was as far as being noticed and accepted. She made up some of the other stuff later after the trial against Alan. She had other family issues but none of those had anything to do with being accepted or being a black sheep.
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