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Thursday, October 3rd Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 3 2013, 12:00 AM (6,644 Views)
Rosebud
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blueskies
Oct 3 2013, 12:19 PM
You know, if Sami and Ej weren't Sami and EJ, I might actually believe Stefano was the devil incarnate & the only bad guy here. As it is, I can't muster up any sympathy for them. Well except Ej when Sami was acting like a brat yesterday.
I was feeling sorry for Stefano, and questioning his sanity for wanting to be around those two pathetic losers.
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OliveAnn


tomsawyer
Oct 3 2013, 12:09 PM
Yes, Dan and Maggie go to Europe to see Mel. Go for a loooong visit.
Can the plane mysteriously disappear in the Bermuda Triangle?
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KAM


Well...if Orpheus or his ilk were the navigator...maybe so. ;)
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Romancer66


LanaluvsBroe
Oct 3 2013, 01:00 PM
Kayla coddling Daniel is pissing me off. For once, I want to someone to tell him that he is human (NOT perfect) and that he needs to mind his damn business. Worry about his own son and leave Jennifer's the hell alone. :flipoff:
The sympathy I might otherwise feel for Kayla is tempered by TIIC having her immediately prop Fetch and Daniel right after running away from JJ. Whom Kayla now refers to as "that boy" and whom she insists "has to" stop comparing Daniel to Jack because Daniel's "not a monster, and Jack was ... all too human." Newsflash, Dr. Johnson--JJ doesn't "have to" stop anything when it comes to Daniel vs. Jack. He has as much right to his feelings as you have to yours. As it is, neither of you is 100% right or 100% wrong--about either man.

The news that Daniel may be leaving to visit Melanie is welcome. I just wish I believed it was going to happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it were permanent, but I'd settle for him being offscreen for the duration of JJ's story.
Edited by Romancer66, Oct 3 2013, 02:07 PM.
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SoapGal1
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tomsawyer
Oct 3 2013, 12:31 PM
LOL at Sami grooming EJ. Cute.
Wish she would've cut the clump of hair growing atop his head.
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longoria07


tomsawyer
Oct 3 2013, 12:40 PM
Jeannie T is such a good rival for Jen. I like the adversarial chemistry between MR and JL.
I wish they'd honor the Eve/Jennifer history by having Theresa say something along the lines of "Boy, my sister was right, torturing this woman IS fun!" behind Jennifer's back. LOL
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am103
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longoria07
Oct 3 2013, 02:14 PM
tomsawyer
Oct 3 2013, 12:40 PM
Jeannie T is such a good rival for Jen. I like the adversarial chemistry between MR and JL.
I wish they'd honor the Eve/Jennifer history by having Theresa say something along the lines of "Boy, my sister was right, torturing this woman IS fun!" behind Jennifer's back. LOL
YES. I've been waiting for the show to touch on the Eve/Jennifer history and mirror it with what Theresa is now doing to Jen. Seriously, it's like they WANT to take the fun and logic out of everything.

On today's episode: Everything involving the Deveraux family was spot-on. Including Theresa/Jen. Everything involving the pretend Horton family (Daniel/Maggie) was cringeworthy as usual.
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PatNS
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Oh good lord ... it's bad enough we're forced to watch Sami and EJ; they had to torture us with a whole of heap of useless Theresa today. Seriously ... not even Stefano can make anything about Sami and EJ even remotely interesting.

Theresa is like a gnat ... annoying ... she serves no other purpose. What a waste of a Brady offspring.

The only good thing about today was Kayla and JJ and Abby and JJ.

And by Jove I think Maggie got it ... finally. I doubt that will stop her from continuing to push Dan back to Jen but one can always dream.
Edited by PatNS, Oct 3 2013, 02:34 PM.
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tomsawyer
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longoria07
Oct 3 2013, 02:14 PM
tomsawyer
Oct 3 2013, 12:40 PM
Jeannie T is such a good rival for Jen. I like the adversarial chemistry between MR and JL.
I wish they'd honor the Eve/Jennifer history by having Theresa say something along the lines of "Boy, my sister was right, torturing this woman IS fun!" behind Jennifer's back. LOL
I tell you, nothing would make me happier than if Jeannie T would reach out to her big sis for mentoring lessons on torturing Jen. Eve needs to be back in Salem, especially since Kristen is leaving us.
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Keith
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They really need to mention Eve in relation to Theresa. Hell, Eve even had a fake name when she arrived. Granted it was her last name, but still. Theresa even uses the same nicknames as Eve! And she's dead-on regarding Jenny and JJ.

Casey's been on fire the last two days. The look on his face after Kayla slipped had so much in it. Like, whoa, wait, this doesn't sound like anything I've heard before. Also, the flashback didn't feel like enough. Dear TPTB, new audiences don't necessarily not what happened. Though maybe they left it like that so new audiences could learn alongside JJ.

I was hysterical when Sami and Stefano were fighting over Wagner. I honestly wish that, instead of making them stay there, Stefano had kicked them out and cut EJ off. The problem being that he would want to be near his grandchildren. But even then, Stefano is so much better cut off from his family, because no matter how many times he claims to love his family, his actions speak louder and differently from those claims.

Anne, just let Daniel leave. Please.
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Keith
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Also, anyone else notice the lack of Maxine at the Nurse's Station lately? :)
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KAM


Keith
Oct 3 2013, 02:51 PM
Also, anyone else notice the lack of Maxine at the Nurse's Station lately? :)
Yes, gratefully so.
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esp13
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Romancer66
Oct 3 2013, 02:04 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Oct 3 2013, 01:00 PM
Kayla coddling Daniel is pissing me off. For once, I want to someone to tell him that he is human (NOT perfect) and that he needs to mind his damn business. Worry about his own son and leave Jennifer's the hell alone. :flipoff:
The sympathy I might otherwise feel for Kayla is tempered by TIIC having her immediately prop Fetch and Daniel right after running away from JJ. Whom Kayla now refers to as "that boy" and whom she insists "has to" stop comparing Daniel to Jack because Daniel's "not a monster, and Jack was ... all too human." Newsflash, Dr. Johnson--JJ doesn't "have to" stop anything when it comes to Daniel vs. Jack. He has as much right to his feelings as you have to yours. As it is, neither of you is 100% right or 100% wrong--about either man.

The news that Daniel may be leaving to visit Melanie is welcome. I just wish I believed it was going to happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it were permanent, but I'd settle for him being offscreen for the duration of JJ's story.
So wait? Kayla's not 100% right when she says that Daniel is not a monster and Jack was all too human? How is that out of line? How is that telling Daniel he is perfect? When has she EVER said he was perfect? Just because she's his friend has never meant that she thought he was perfect.

And sure, JJ has a right to his feelings but why is Kayla required to coddle them when they aren't based on the truth? Daniel is not, and has not been, the monster that JJ has painted him to be -- especially not to JJ. Jack was not perfect, was not a saint, and the pedestal that JJ has placed him on is not a place Jack would have ever been comfortable with.

Kayla has every right - in fact more right than anybody - to her feelings and, god forbid, to be human herself when it comes to her feelings about Jack. She's not the villain in this piece. She was the victim and if she wants to shout out what Jack did from the rooftops she has that right. It is not her duty or obligation to protect Jack's legacy by hiding the truth or coddling his son's na´ve view of the man. Yet, she's done that pretty much since the rape happened. She put her feelings aside so Steve could have a relationship with his brother, even to the point of letting her rapist be the best man at her wedding. And yet, she makes one slip and dares not to drink the Kool-Aid that Jack is awesome and Daniel is a monster and now she's the villain. Sorry, I don't buy it.
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Romancer66


esp13
Oct 3 2013, 03:18 PM
Romancer66
Oct 3 2013, 02:04 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Oct 3 2013, 01:00 PM
Kayla coddling Daniel is pissing me off. For once, I want to someone to tell him that he is human (NOT perfect) and that he needs to mind his damn business. Worry about his own son and leave Jennifer's the hell alone. :flipoff:
The sympathy I might otherwise feel for Kayla is tempered by TIIC having her immediately prop Fetch and Daniel right after running away from JJ. Whom Kayla now refers to as "that boy" and whom she insists "has to" stop comparing Daniel to Jack because Daniel's "not a monster, and Jack was ... all too human." Newsflash, Dr. Johnson--JJ doesn't "have to" stop anything when it comes to Daniel vs. Jack. He has as much right to his feelings as you have to yours. As it is, neither of you is 100% right or 100% wrong--about either man.

The news that Daniel may be leaving to visit Melanie is welcome. I just wish I believed it was going to happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it were permanent, but I'd settle for him being offscreen for the duration of JJ's story.
So wait? Kayla's not 100% right when she says that Daniel is not a monster and Jack was all too human? How is that out of line? How is that telling Daniel he is perfect? When has she EVER said he was perfect? Just because she's his friend has never meant that she thought he was perfect.

And sure, JJ has a right to his feelings but why is Kayla required to coddle them when they aren't based on the truth? Daniel is not, and has not been, the monster that JJ has painted him to be -- especially not to JJ. Jack was not perfect, was not a saint, and the pedestal that JJ has placed him on is not a place Jack would have ever been comfortable with.

Kayla has every right - in fact more right than anybody - to her feelings and, god forbid, to be human herself when it comes to her feelings about Jack. She's not the villain in this piece. She was the victim and if she wants to shout out what Jack did from the rooftops she has that right. It is not her duty or obligation to protect Jack's legacy by hiding the truth or coddling his son's na´ve view of the man. Yet, she's done that pretty much since the rape happened. She put her feelings aside so Steve could have a relationship with his brother, even to the point of letting her rapist be the best man at her wedding. And yet, she makes one slip and dares not to drink the Kool-Aid that Jack is awesome and Daniel is a monster and now she's the villain. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Who says Kayla has to "coddle" JJ's feelings about Jack? Why not simply accept that he feels differently about his father than she does, that he always will, that his feelings are no less valid than hers, and just leave it at that? Why does JJ "have to" stop comparing Jack and Daniel? And what gives Kayla or anyone else the right to decide that this is something he "has to" do? I don't see Kayla as the villain, much as I loathe that they made her Fetch-prop today, but I do see her overstepping the mark here. And going by the dialogue, it does look as if she came thisclose to saying Jack was a monster, before substituting the phrase "all too human" at the last minute. And "monster" is no more accurate a term for Jack than "saint." (Personally, I'd just call him a flawed man who worked hard to become a better man.) None of these characters belong on pedestals, though they don't necessarily deserve to be cast into outer darkness either. Although I wouldn't mind Daniel being cast into Outer Mongolia.
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granolagirl
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Quote:
 
Why not simply accept that he feels differently about his father than she does, that he always will, that his feelings are no less valid than hers, and just leave it at that?


Quote:
 
Why does JJ "have to" stop comparing Jack and Daniel? And what gives Kayla or anyone else the right to decide that this is something he "has to" do?


So Kayla should accept JJ's feelings, but JJ shouldn't have to face reality about Jack and Daniel?

JJ's feelings about Jack may not be less valid, but they are more naive.
Edited by granolagirl, Oct 3 2013, 04:18 PM.
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Honeybees
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esp13
Oct 3 2013, 03:18 PM
Romancer66
Oct 3 2013, 02:04 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Oct 3 2013, 01:00 PM
Kayla coddling Daniel is pissing me off. For once, I want to someone to tell him that he is human (NOT perfect) and that he needs to mind his damn business. Worry about his own son and leave Jennifer's the hell alone. :flipoff:
The sympathy I might otherwise feel for Kayla is tempered by TIIC having her immediately prop Fetch and Daniel right after running away from JJ. Whom Kayla now refers to as "that boy" and whom she insists "has to" stop comparing Daniel to Jack because Daniel's "not a monster, and Jack was ... all too human." Newsflash, Dr. Johnson--JJ doesn't "have to" stop anything when it comes to Daniel vs. Jack. He has as much right to his feelings as you have to yours. As it is, neither of you is 100% right or 100% wrong--about either man.

The news that Daniel may be leaving to visit Melanie is welcome. I just wish I believed it was going to happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it were permanent, but I'd settle for him being offscreen for the duration of JJ's story.
So wait? Kayla's not 100% right when she says that Daniel is not a monster and Jack was all too human? How is that out of line? How is that telling Daniel he is perfect? When has she EVER said he was perfect? Just because she's his friend has never meant that she thought he was perfect.

And sure, JJ has a right to his feelings but why is Kayla required to coddle them when they aren't based on the truth? Daniel is not, and has not been, the monster that JJ has painted him to be -- especially not to JJ. Jack was not perfect, was not a saint, and the pedestal that JJ has placed him on is not a place Jack would have ever been comfortable with.

Kayla has every right - in fact more right than anybody - to her feelings and, god forbid, to be human herself when it comes to her feelings about Jack. She's not the villain in this piece. She was the victim and if she wants to shout out what Jack did from the rooftops she has that right. It is not her duty or obligation to protect Jack's legacy by hiding the truth or coddling his son's na´ve view of the man. Yet, she's done that pretty much since the rape happened. She put her feelings aside so Steve could have a relationship with his brother, even to the point of letting her rapist be the best man at her wedding. And yet, she makes one slip and dares not to drink the Kool-Aid that Jack is awesome and Daniel is a monster and now she's the villain. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Yet, JJ isn't the villain here either. He was never told about his father's past crimes, and he certainly means no harm to Kayla because he loves and misses his father and has a difficult time accepting that his mother replace his father so quickly. I don't believe Kayla is wrong here, though I believe she is responsible for the choice she made as an adult to have a relationship with her niece and nephew for Steve's sake. I liked that it was portrayed as a mistake, because Kayla is not the type of character who would hold JJ responsible for his father's actions, and she certainly knows that given that Jack is dead and JJ idolizes him in grief, that it is not appropriate for her to tell JJ.

I do not like that Daniel is the loci of the action here, and it's part of fact that the writers must make either Daniel or Sami central to all things (and to a lessor extent Kristen). I do see hints in the writing that JJ will be punished for loving his father and being loyal to him (because he raped Kayla and JJ should have somehow instinctively seen this evil in his dad?). I also see hints that Jack's rape of Kayla is being used to punish Jack fans for not preferring Daniel. I find that exploitative.

However, more importantly, I find the presence of Daniel in what could be an excellent Kayla story intrusive, with Kayla at the center of the action and JJ growing as a character (Think of when Harry Potter learned his father was a bully, which isn't even close to as bad as what Jack did). But in the end, the moral of this story will not be about forgiveness, the right to never forget even when one forgives, the sins of the father being visiting on the son, the legacy of sexual assault on entire families or about learning that your parents are human. It will be about how awesome Daniel is.

I'll also say that Casey Moss is an excellent young actor, and he ups his game with the better actors. A storyline where Kayla becomes the surrogate mother to Jack's son because Steve is gone and Jennifer is too busy pining for Daniel would be totally epic. Kayla isn't obligated to JJ in any way, but that would be the point. Also, I would really like to see MBE and Casey Moss act opposite each other on a regular basis.

There were hints of greatness in today. I just wish this was a Kayla story not a Daniel is awesome story.
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Romancer66


Kayla knew the worst of Jack. JJ's known the best of Jack. Somewhere in the middle is the whole person, though I think the Jack of the last 20 years or so comes closer to JJ's picture of him.
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Romancer66


granolagirl
Oct 3 2013, 04:13 PM
Quote:
 
Why not simply accept that he feels differently about his father than she does, that he always will, that his feelings are no less valid than hers, and just leave it at that?


Quote:
 
Why does JJ "have to" stop comparing Jack and Daniel? And what gives Kayla or anyone else the right to decide that this is something he "has to" do?


So Kayla should accept JJ's feelings, but JJ shouldn't have to face reality about Jack and Daniel?

JJ's feelings about Jack may not be less valid, but they are more naive.
Reality based on individual perception is a subjective thing. Emotions are subjective too, and they fluctuate with time and experience. I'd expect JJ's perception of Jack to alter over time, even without this development looming on the horizon. I'm just baffled and annoyed that this development has come up mainly because JJ loved his father and can't stand Daniel.
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esp13
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Romancer66
Oct 3 2013, 04:03 PM
esp13
Oct 3 2013, 03:18 PM
Romancer66
Oct 3 2013, 02:04 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Oct 3 2013, 01:00 PM
Kayla coddling Daniel is pissing me off. For once, I want to someone to tell him that he is human (NOT perfect) and that he needs to mind his damn business. Worry about his own son and leave Jennifer's the hell alone. :flipoff:
The sympathy I might otherwise feel for Kayla is tempered by TIIC having her immediately prop Fetch and Daniel right after running away from JJ. Whom Kayla now refers to as "that boy" and whom she insists "has to" stop comparing Daniel to Jack because Daniel's "not a monster, and Jack was ... all too human." Newsflash, Dr. Johnson--JJ doesn't "have to" stop anything when it comes to Daniel vs. Jack. He has as much right to his feelings as you have to yours. As it is, neither of you is 100% right or 100% wrong--about either man.

The news that Daniel may be leaving to visit Melanie is welcome. I just wish I believed it was going to happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it were permanent, but I'd settle for him being offscreen for the duration of JJ's story.
So wait? Kayla's not 100% right when she says that Daniel is not a monster and Jack was all too human? How is that out of line? How is that telling Daniel he is perfect? When has she EVER said he was perfect? Just because she's his friend has never meant that she thought he was perfect.

And sure, JJ has a right to his feelings but why is Kayla required to coddle them when they aren't based on the truth? Daniel is not, and has not been, the monster that JJ has painted him to be -- especially not to JJ. Jack was not perfect, was not a saint, and the pedestal that JJ has placed him on is not a place Jack would have ever been comfortable with.

Kayla has every right - in fact more right than anybody - to her feelings and, god forbid, to be human herself when it comes to her feelings about Jack. She's not the villain in this piece. She was the victim and if she wants to shout out what Jack did from the rooftops she has that right. It is not her duty or obligation to protect Jack's legacy by hiding the truth or coddling his son's na´ve view of the man. Yet, she's done that pretty much since the rape happened. She put her feelings aside so Steve could have a relationship with his brother, even to the point of letting her rapist be the best man at her wedding. And yet, she makes one slip and dares not to drink the Kool-Aid that Jack is awesome and Daniel is a monster and now she's the villain. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Who says Kayla has to "coddle" JJ's feelings about Jack? Why not simply accept that he feels differently about his father than she does, that he always will, that his feelings are no less valid than hers, and just leave it at that? Why does JJ "have to" stop comparing Jack and Daniel? And what gives Kayla or anyone else the right to decide that this is something he "has to" do? I don't see Kayla as the villain, much as I loathe that they made her Fetch-prop today, but I do see her overstepping the mark here. And going by the dialogue, it does look as if she came thisclose to saying Jack was a monster, before substituting the phrase "all too human" at the last minute. And "monster" is no more accurate a term for Jack than "saint." (Personally, I'd just call him a flawed man who worked hard to become a better man.) None of these characters belong on pedestals, though they don't necessarily deserve to be cast into outer darkness either. Although I wouldn't mind Daniel being cast into Outer Mongolia.
Because JJ's rants against Daniel are not based on anything that Daniel has actually done and the pedestal he put his father on is not based on reality either.

Look if JJ's dislike of Daniel was either based on something rational or less OTT and JJ didn't have Jack on a saintly pedestal (regardless of whether he knew about the rape or not), I'd agree with you. JJ's entitled to dislike Daniel and love his father. But, yes, when he's vilifying Daniel for no reason and painting his father to be a saint that he wasn't, I think Kayla has the right to tell him he's wrong. She sure as hell has the right to disagree with him and explain why she think's he's wrong.

And, more than any of that, she has an absolute right not to be perfect and objective when it comes to Jack. Just because they moved past the rape doesn't meant she's required to forget it, or not have any feelings about it. I find it strange that JJ is entitled to hate Daniel for little or no reason, but Kayla's feelings about Jack aren't valid because, well, it's been awhile and he said he was sorry. She was raped and she's entitled to have whatever feelings she wants about that -- including viewing (in that moment of emotion) Jack as a monster.
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Keith
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I could have done without Kayla running into Daniel at the Pub, but I'm still not getting this is a "Daniel is awesome story". Not yet. And hopefully what CM said in his DR interview rings true. Yes, Daniel's presence was used to bring this to light, with JJ comparing Jack and Daniel, but I have slightly more faith to actually watch the show in front of me instead of imaging what isn't there.
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