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Friday, October 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 4 2013, 12:22 AM (11,628 Views)
Kriss4


granolagirl
Oct 6 2013, 01:45 AM
LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 12:42 AM
While Jack was not important to Kayla in the way she was important to him, she would never leave him to figuratively rot in hell, either. Especially after Steve's death, because he had loved his baby brother so intensely, Kayla almost inherited his concern over Billy Jack's well-being. She could have closed the door on rebuilding their relationship and probably should have then, but she allowed for him to be a part of Stephanie's life. Even when he died this last time, Kayla seemed genuinely upset over it.

Now I'm not saying that was the right approach in the writing; I certainly understand that her voice was ignored to benefit Jack. However, that was the story as told and I do admire her ability to care enough about someone who didn't deserve to be cared about by her, especially because Jack really did come to hate himself over what he had done, and it just made for interesting soap opera.
I think it was overdone, but it worked as long as it was something that was freely given by Kayla and not expected by Jack (or anyone else -- the Thanksgiving scene with Jo pushing everyone to hold hands has always pushed the envelope for me). The overtones around this story that her forgiveness might become an obligation in some way is where it doesn't work, for me. But I'm glad they are showing that the events still affects her.

Jennifer and Kayla's friendliness never really bothered me... Maybe because they were friendly before, and Jack and Kayla were already forming a weird kind of alliance during the Marina story when Jack and Jennifer were just getting involved.
The rape happened in early 1988, and that dinner scene in 1990 is actually one of my favorite scenes.

However, one thing I didn't like about it was Jo. Normally, I liked Jo, but sometimes she made me angry. This was one of those times, because she was so consumed by her wish for Jack to be part of the family that she lacked sensitivity toward anyone else.

This includes Steve. Steve was gonna stop that wedding. Jo stopped him for Billy's sake. So what if Steve was miserable? So what if Kayla was desperately unhappy? As long as Billy was getting what he wanted...she showed definite favoritism toward Jack, and I resented it sometimes, because I didn't see it as fine for everyone to dismiss their own feelings forever, twisting their lives around to make Jack happy.

Jack was a grown up. He wanted HIS dreams, his wishes. It was all supposed to happen for HIM. Everyone else was supposed to keep up the pretense. What would it do to Billy if they didn't? To heck with what it was already doing to Steve and to Kayla.

At the dinner, it was like she was blind to how difficult it was for Kayla. She was kind of oblivious. Of course, Kayla wasn't her daughter, just her daughter-in-law. She loved Kayla, but she wasn't at all sensitive to Kayla sometimes.
Edited by Kriss4, Oct 6 2013, 09:24 AM.
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Partnersincrime
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S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 08:59 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all

If Stefano starts to demand that EJ do things for him it will cause problems for Ejami, when EJ wants to have a happy relationship with Samantha, so EJ might have to sacrifice the woman he loves or at least a happy relationship with her.
Stefano have not asked yet ej to do something that consider sacrifice
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six
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Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all
This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
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S loves EJ


EJ had to sacrifice his pride by going down on his nees and beg and to kiss Stefanoīs ring, that was really humiliating for him, but as I said in an other posts I think Stefano will start to demanad that EJ do things for him aswell it would be strange otherwise, one of Stefanoīs rules was that EJ works for him after all. In an interview with Corday he also said that EJ will continously break Samiīs trust. JM has broken his leg though so it might be put on hold for a while until he is better.
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six
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While we're on the subject of Adrienne, why did Jo give Jack up, and not Adrienne?
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S loves EJ


Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all

EJ havenīt have had a problem with Stefano being near the kids when they have been on good terms, but since EJ doesnīt want to have anything to do with his father anymore that would include the kids aswell. EJ didnīt look happy when Johnny ran and hugged Stefano.
Edited by S loves EJ, Oct 6 2013, 09:40 AM.
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blueskies
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 12:17 AM
TFP!

Before my time, but wow the show was so much better then. Also, I'm shocked how little MA's changed.
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LuvingLumi
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LUMI

six
Oct 6 2013, 09:21 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all
This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
Of the few times that Ej has tried to get away from Stefano, he's quickly gone back to being under Stefano out of his own accord. That I remember correctly, Stefano truly didn't have to hold a gun to his head to have Ej return to the fold, so while he's tried to do it before, he's never really succeeded and not because Stefano did something to oblige EJ, but because EJ wanted to be part of that again.

I don't consider what he did a huge sacrifice not because of the length of time but because he really didn't do much with what he had and it wasn't his to begin with. You know taking something from someone else and then being forced to return it is really not that big of a sacrifice..I don't consider him living with Stefano a sacrifice either...since that's where he pretty much has lived the majority of the time he's been in Salem. I would have seen a bigger sacrifice if Ej had worked real hard at building an empire of his own since Stefano disowned him. SOmething more legit and something that we actually SAW him work hard and long at acquiring....THEN he's forced to give THAT to Stefano in addition to the house and the power. Now THAT would be a true sacrifice, and it would have been even better if Sami had worked long and hard at buiilding that with him.....but to take something that was Stefano's away only to give it back in less then 6 months, living in the same house you lived in with Stefano before the take over, having Sami and the kids live there with you, when Sami actually didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back to me doesn't constitute a sacrifice of any kind.
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S loves EJ


LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 09:21 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all
This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
Of the few times that Ej has tried to get away from Stefano, he's quickly gone back to being under Stefano out of his own accord. That I remember correctly, Stefano truly didn't have to hold a gun to his head to have Ej return to the fold, so while he's tried to do it before, he's never really succeeded and not because Stefano did something to oblige EJ, but because EJ wanted to be part of that again.

I don't consider what he did a huge sacrifice not because of the length of time but because he really didn't do much with what he had and it wasn't his to begin with. You know taking something from someone else and then being forced to return it is really not that big of a sacrifice..I don't consider him living with Stefano a sacrifice either...since that's where he pretty much has lived the majority of the time he's been in Salem. I would have seen a bigger sacrifice if Ej had worked real hard at building an empire of his own since Stefano disowned him. SOmething more legit and something that we actually SAW him work hard and long at acquiring....THEN he's forced to give THAT to Stefano in addition to the house and the power. Now THAT would be a true sacrifice, and it would have been even better if Sami had worked long and hard at buiilding that with him.....but to take something that was Stefano's away only to give it back in less then 6 months, living in the same house you lived in with Stefano before the take over, having Sami and the kids live there with you, when Sami actually didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back to me doesn't constitute a sacrifice of any kind.

EJ went back to being under Stefanoīs tumb in 2008 because Sami pushed him away, he betrayed his father for her but when he thought she didnīt want him he didnīt have a reason to stay away from Stefano anymore. He has loved both Samantha and his father but when it comes down to it he chooses Samantha when given a choice.
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TreasureCove
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 09:03 AM
granolagirl
Oct 6 2013, 01:45 AM
LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 12:42 AM
While Jack was not important to Kayla in the way she was important to him, she would never leave him to figuratively rot in hell, either. Especially after Steve's death, because he had loved his baby brother so intensely, Kayla almost inherited his concern over Billy Jack's well-being. She could have closed the door on rebuilding their relationship and probably should have then, but she allowed for him to be a part of Stephanie's life. Even when he died this last time, Kayla seemed genuinely upset over it.

Now I'm not saying that was the right approach in the writing; I certainly understand that her voice was ignored to benefit Jack. However, that was the story as told and I do admire her ability to care enough about someone who didn't deserve to be cared about by her, especially because Jack really did come to hate himself over what he had done, and it just made for interesting soap opera.
I think it was overdone, but it worked as long as it was something that was freely given by Kayla and not expected by Jack (or anyone else -- the Thanksgiving scene with Jo pushing everyone to hold hands has always pushed the envelope for me). The overtones around this story that her forgiveness might become an obligation in some way is where it doesn't work, for me. But I'm glad they are showing that the events still affects her.

Jennifer and Kayla's friendliness never really bothered me... Maybe because they were friendly before, and Jack and Kayla were already forming a weird kind of alliance during the Marina story when Jack and Jennifer were just getting involved.
The rape happened in early 1988, and that dinner scene in 1990 is actually one of my favorite scenes.

However, one thing I didn't like about it was Jo. Normally, I liked Jo, but sometimes she made me angry. This was one of those times, because she was so consumed by her wish for Jack to be part of the family that she lacked sensitivity toward anyone else.

This includes Steve. Steve was gonna stop that wedding. Jo stopped him for Billy's sake. So what if Steve was miserable? So what if Kayla was desperately unhappy? As long as Billy was getting what he wanted...she showed definite favoritism toward Jack, and I resented it sometimes, because I didn't see it as fine for everyone to dismiss their own feelings forever, twisting their lives around to make Jack happy.

Jack was a grown up. He wanted HIS dreams, his wishes. It was all supposed to happen for HIM. Everyone else was supposed to keep up the pretense. What would it do to Billy if they didn't? To heck with what it was already doing to Steve and to Kayla.

At the dinner, it was like she was blind to how difficult it was for Kayla. She was kind of oblivious. Of course, Kayla wasn't her daughter, just her daughter-in-law. She loved Kayla, but she wasn't at all sensitive to Kayla sometimes.
This is actually a realistic situation that women who were molested and raped by family, and close family friends go through.

The family want her to just forget about it, to just get over it. She's tearing the family apart with her dramatics, why must she drag the family name through the mud? She's probably lying or exaggerating, and he never would have done anything unless she caused it to happen anyway.

Oprah Winfrey was raped by a close family friend. Her family stayed close to him even after they found out about it. She talked of a time when she was making breakfast for everyone and he came over. The house was filled with tension, and if she refused to make him breakfast too it would cause a scene that she knew her family didn't want. She didn't want to cause stress for her family. She was filled with helpless rage as she cooked her rapist eggs because it would ruin her family's nice morning if she didn't.

:headbang: How the hell this show can interspace a realistic depiction of the pain a woman still feels thirty years after being raped once with scenes of a victim being romantic with her multiple rapist and expect the storyline to be taken seriously is far beyond my comprehension :wtf:
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mollymay


S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 10:17 AM
LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 09:21 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
Of the few times that Ej has tried to get away from Stefano, he's quickly gone back to being under Stefano out of his own accord. That I remember correctly, Stefano truly didn't have to hold a gun to his head to have Ej return to the fold, so while he's tried to do it before, he's never really succeeded and not because Stefano did something to oblige EJ, but because EJ wanted to be part of that again.

I don't consider what he did a huge sacrifice not because of the length of time but because he really didn't do much with what he had and it wasn't his to begin with. You know taking something from someone else and then being forced to return it is really not that big of a sacrifice..I don't consider him living with Stefano a sacrifice either...since that's where he pretty much has lived the majority of the time he's been in Salem. I would have seen a bigger sacrifice if Ej had worked real hard at building an empire of his own since Stefano disowned him. SOmething more legit and something that we actually SAW him work hard and long at acquiring....THEN he's forced to give THAT to Stefano in addition to the house and the power. Now THAT would be a true sacrifice, and it would have been even better if Sami had worked long and hard at buiilding that with him.....but to take something that was Stefano's away only to give it back in less then 6 months, living in the same house you lived in with Stefano before the take over, having Sami and the kids live there with you, when Sami actually didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back to me doesn't constitute a sacrifice of any kind.

EJ went back to being under Stefanoīs tumb in 2008 because Sami pushed him away, he betrayed his father for her but when he thought she didnīt want him he didnīt have a reason to stay away from Stefano anymore. He has loved both Samantha and his father but when it comes down to it he chooses Samantha when given a choice.
Yes.....all the other times Stefano has been able to lure EJ back in had comes on the heels of what EJ felt was betrayal by Sami. Pushing him away, trying to give his kids to that idiot Rafe. With Sami on his side its going to be much harder to lure EJ to do anything that will jeopardize his family with Sami and their kids.

And its not the "stuff" that EJ gave up that made it a sacrifice. It was the pride and accomplishment he felt at having been able to gain it all in the first place. It wasn't the stuff EJ was giving to Stefano, it was a part of his soul and it was a huge sacrifice for him. Sami realized it EJ went to hell for her and she wasn't going to leave him alone in it.

And as far as Sami leaving after the first little grey thing EJ does for Stefano I don't think that will happen. To me the writing seems to be making it apparent that this time Sami knows she's marrying a "DiMera" and she accepts it.
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Romancer66


LastLicks
Oct 5 2013, 10:31 PM
Quote:
 
I'm just mystified that all three women were wringing their hands and worrying about JJ finding out "the wrong way" and not actively taking steps to ensure he learned "the right way" or rather, "the least damaging way"--if such a thing even exists. This whole "conspiracy of silence" thing is going to blow up in their faces, big time.

I wish I knew when J&J had told Abigail about the rape. Personally, I think telling her after she tried to break up Austin and Carrie's marriage would have been a perfect time, dramatically speaking. I could imagine Jack bringing it up because he didn't want to see his daughter making the same mistakes he did, resorting to dirty tricks or physical force to land/hang on to someone who loves someone else. And Abigail's own guilt and shame might have made her more receptive to his message. It's unlikely to happen with this regime, but if MA ever comes back, couldn't the show film J&J telling Abigail as a flashback?


Wasn't Jennifer's going over to the park supposed to show us the opposite? She isn't planning on keeping silent and set out to tell him the right way, and while she probably should have done so the moment Abigail brought it up, I'm guessing she held off not realizing he was determined to find out the truth. I don't love the idea of her sitting around waiting for him (because I feel like she'd sleep in park with him if she had to), but I think she's trying to handle this well for a change.

I absolutely agree that one of the many perfect times to tell Abigail would have been after she tried to break up Carrie and Austin, and I'm sorry we never got to see it. I loved his response to her saying everybody would know what she did, and he firmly said, "Yes they will, and you're going to have deal with it." He didn't cut her any slack because he learned that same lesson, it's a shame we didn't get to see them talk about it more.

That was the first time I ever saw Jack look at Abigail with anything other than complete adoration. He was noticeably disappointed in her, which I thought was realistic and also interesting. He had always cut Jennifer and Abigail so much slack in the past, taking most of the blame when things went wrong even when it wasn't warranted. it could have sent his relationship with both of them in a different direction, with the potential for all sorts of family drama. Yet another opportunity ignored and wasted by TPTB. :shame:
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six
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LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 09:21 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all
This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
Of the few times that Ej has tried to get away from Stefano, he's quickly gone back to being under Stefano out of his own accord. That I remember correctly, Stefano truly didn't have to hold a gun to his head to have Ej return to the fold, so while he's tried to do it before, he's never really succeeded and not because Stefano did something to oblige EJ, but because EJ wanted to be part of that again.

I don't consider what he did a huge sacrifice not because of the length of time but because he really didn't do much with what he had and it wasn't his to begin with. You know taking something from someone else and then being forced to return it is really not that big of a sacrifice..I don't consider him living with Stefano a sacrifice either...since that's where he pretty much has lived the majority of the time he's been in Salem. I would have seen a bigger sacrifice if Ej had worked real hard at building an empire of his own since Stefano disowned him. SOmething more legit and something that we actually SAW him work hard and long at acquiring....THEN he's forced to give THAT to Stefano in addition to the house and the power. Now THAT would be a true sacrifice, and it would have been even better if Sami had worked long and hard at buiilding that with him.....but to take something that was Stefano's away only to give it back in less then 6 months, living in the same house you lived in with Stefano before the take over, having Sami and the kids live there with you, when Sami actually didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back to me doesn't constitute a sacrifice of any kind.
I'm thinking of three separate occasions where he tried to get away from Stefano and he only went back willingly once (the 2008 time and the reasons why he went back have been covered). The other two times Stefano has forced him back into the family. And yes, EJ usually starts accepting and enjoying his relationship with Stefano again, because walking away from your family and the lifestyle that you know wouldn't be easy even if you hadn't been groomed to crave love and respect from someone like Stefano.

And it's not true that Sami didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back. She initially refused to move in, and once she did move in, she was very concerned about how it would affect EJ and warned him that if he got pulled in again, she would take him and the kids and leave. They could have given EJ a different sacrifice to make, and I do agree that it would have been more compelling if he'd built his own empire, but we'll have to agree to disagree about whether unwillingly living with someone as dangerous (and I mean emotionally, not physically) as Stefano is a sacrifice or not.

Also, Stefano isn't just someone - he's a dangerous psychopath. We were told that the loss of his company weakened him. That would have been a positive event for the whole town. This isn't returning the wallet you stole from a harmless old man. It would be like the State seizing a career criminal's fortune, then handing it back over and setting him loose on society.
Edited by six, Oct 6 2013, 11:10 AM.
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somuchwhatever
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Brotherly Love

six
Oct 6 2013, 09:28 AM
While we're on the subject of Adrienne, why did Jo give Jack up, and not Adrienne?
Jo gave up Steve and Jack when Jack was just an infant in order to protect them from Duke. Adrienne had not been born yet.

Speaking of Jennifer's reaction and staying out of Kayla & Jack's past, how much do I love this scene? I think it's the first one where Jennifer and Jack implicitly reference the rape with each other. I love that Jennifer doesn't give him a pass.



There are a lot of discussions later on, of course, after Harper's death and when Jennifer is raped, but I believe this is the first time that Jack and Jennifer allude to what happened in the course of their relationship (which is, at this point, mentor/employee with a healthy dose of chem testing).

I really hope they follow up with Jennifer and Kayla on this, too, because it was always handled so respectfully on Jennifer's part in the past. Sadly to say, we see so much of pod-Jennifer lately that my fear is that they'll have her take Kayla's head off. I'll be very glad if they have a follow up discussion where they get to discuss it and it gets handled beautifully.

Edit: These scenes are about to send me back down the rabbit hole for this storyline all over again, and considering I just rewatched it a few weeks ago, that's saying something.
Edited by somuchwhatever, Oct 6 2013, 11:05 AM.
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six
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Thanks, what I'm wondering though, is why she'd give one infant away, then have another one and keep it. I guess the show probably didn't explain that, though.
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Kriss4


Great clip!

It's kinda funny isn't it?

Jack did something terrible, and it would crop up periodically. Even now, theyre showing that the pain of that one act still exists for Kayla when something makes her think of it, and her slip is bringing it forward. So far, I think it's being surprisingly well-handled.
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Kriss4


six
Oct 6 2013, 11:14 AM
Thanks, what I'm wondering though, is why she'd give one infant away, then have another one and keep it. I guess the show probably didn't explain that, though.
I can't remember, but I'm gonna grab a clip for you, six.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

You know, I am really loving this Jack/Jen/Kayla, et al discussion. Just a refreshing change to see several pages about someone else besides Sami's entourage. Just saying. And I love the history review, because this is a segment in time where I didn't get to watch much.
Edited by ladyofthelake, Oct 6 2013, 11:26 AM.
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LuvingLumi
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LUMI

S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 10:17 AM
LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 09:21 AM
Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM

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This isn't the first time EJ has tried to get himself and his family out from under Stefano's thumb. Nobody should have a problem with Stefano's treatment of the kids, because he's good to them, when it comes to the day to day interactions. And I don't think you have to have possession of something for a certain length of time before giving it away becomes a sacrifice. If EJ won the lottery on Monday morning and used his winnings to buy Sami's freedom on Monday afternoon, that would still be a sacrifice.
Of the few times that Ej has tried to get away from Stefano, he's quickly gone back to being under Stefano out of his own accord. That I remember correctly, Stefano truly didn't have to hold a gun to his head to have Ej return to the fold, so while he's tried to do it before, he's never really succeeded and not because Stefano did something to oblige EJ, but because EJ wanted to be part of that again.

I don't consider what he did a huge sacrifice not because of the length of time but because he really didn't do much with what he had and it wasn't his to begin with. You know taking something from someone else and then being forced to return it is really not that big of a sacrifice..I don't consider him living with Stefano a sacrifice either...since that's where he pretty much has lived the majority of the time he's been in Salem. I would have seen a bigger sacrifice if Ej had worked real hard at building an empire of his own since Stefano disowned him. SOmething more legit and something that we actually SAW him work hard and long at acquiring....THEN he's forced to give THAT to Stefano in addition to the house and the power. Now THAT would be a true sacrifice, and it would have been even better if Sami had worked long and hard at buiilding that with him.....but to take something that was Stefano's away only to give it back in less then 6 months, living in the same house you lived in with Stefano before the take over, having Sami and the kids live there with you, when Sami actually didn't care about living there with Stefano a few months back to me doesn't constitute a sacrifice of any kind.

EJ went back to being under Stefanoīs tumb in 2008 because Sami pushed him away, he betrayed his father for her but when he thought she didnīt want him he didnīt have a reason to stay away from Stefano anymore. He has loved both Samantha and his father but when it comes down to it he chooses Samantha when given a choice.
IMHO that makes no sense...sure she leftt him, but wouldn't a life away from his father virtually guarantee that sooner or later she's see him for someone she's always wanted him to be and finally give in to her feelings? If anything the argument could have been made that EJ should have tried to make a name of hiimself outside of his father's influence BECAUSE he wanted Sami....and the fact that she had real reservation to being with him because of who he was and who his father was, was the best excuse to actually break free from Stefano. Instead he went back and frankly while he was with Nicole, and she was pregnant, he was pretty much not doing anything THAT horrible...he was the village idiot after all....so yeah, I don't see it that way at all.
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Kriss4


Hey, six.

Here's an important scene about that subject you were asking about. It doesn't address your question exactly, but it's still pivotal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3mWxbQAdI
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