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Friday, October 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 4 2013, 12:22 AM (11,524 Views)
BeeBee
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six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
EJ did not actually "place"Stefano in a position of power over his family,Stefano took a position of power over EJ and by extension Sami if she chooses to stay in the DiMera mansion with EJ and Stefano.
Edited by BeeBee, Oct 6 2013, 09:24 PM.
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Kriss4


Did anybody find that clip where Jo and Steve talk about how she went back for Billy, or Jo talks to Jack about having gone back for him?

Surely a scene like that would be out there somewhere.
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 11:48 AM
This one seems appropriate too, in view of what's going on with Kayla and Adrienne this week.

Keep in mind, though. Steve DID NOT kill Duke. Adrienne did, and Steve came in just afterward, and figured out that Duke had beat her up. Adrienne, traumatized, doesn't remember what actually happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fInaVpG4CFw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2_J20XR5DM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpT7jKlAegE
TFP, great stuff!
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Kriss4


I hope we get some Kayla/Adrienne scenes this week where they have to deal with old feelings.
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 08:58 PM
Did anybody find that clip where Jo and Steve talk about how she went back for Billy, or Jo talks to Jack about having gone back for him?

Surely a scene like that would be out there somewhere.
I did some searching, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fmIcOKxIqY

:)
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Kriss4


That was the night he was going to propose to Kayla!

I haven't watched that clip in so long. I didn't like it because Kayla didn't get her wish that night. Jack had his relapse, and Steve went into "save Jack no matter what!" mode.
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BeeBee
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S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 01:35 PM
LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 11:40 AM
mollymay
Oct 6 2013, 10:36 AM
S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 10:17 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Yes.....all the other times Stefano has been able to lure EJ back in had comes on the heels of what EJ felt was betrayal by Sami. Pushing him away, trying to give his kids to that idiot Rafe. With Sami on his side its going to be much harder to lure EJ to do anything that will jeopardize his family with Sami and their kids.

And its not the "stuff" that EJ gave up that made it a sacrifice. It was the pride and accomplishment he felt at having been able to gain it all in the first place. It wasn't the stuff EJ was giving to Stefano, it was a part of his soul and it was a huge sacrifice for him. Sami realized it EJ went to hell for her and she wasn't going to leave him alone in it.

And as far as Sami leaving after the first little grey thing EJ does for Stefano I don't think that will happen. To me the writing seems to be making it apparent that this time Sami knows she's marrying a "DiMera" and she accepts it.
Ej acted out of his own accord on a few situations though that impacted Sami direction WITHOUT his father even knowing about it. I see Ej doing plenty on his own this time too...he'll likely blame Stefano for his decisions when the truth comes out, but in the end, it's all on EJ. Just like in the past....no one told him to kidnap Sydney, but he did it...without Stefano's knowledge.....he's had chances with Sami before and he's pretty much thrown those chances out the window and it's not because of Stefano.

I still don't see how stealing something that belongs to someone else and then being forced to give it back, grovel, beg and kiss the ring as a sacrifice. The sacrifice would have been if he worked long and hard to make something of his own and Stefano in exchange for helping Sami would have made him give it to him. that is a true sacrifice...but something that belonged to Stefano to begin with? yeah...no....

Oh and Sami isn't going to give a flying flip about him doing something grey to Stefano....he'll have her support when that happens....but doing something like lying, or stealing about something that her perceives would benefit her or them, but it ends up being such a huge gamble that it ends up hurting her in the end is something that I don't know if she'll be able to get past. Ej said something on Friday that I can only see it as foreshadowing...he said that sometimes you have to lie to keep the one you love. We are not aware of anything he's keeping from her recently...obviously there is a lot he hasn't told her that were written in by former writing teams that I don't think will be the focus of anything this writing team does, but there has to be something in the future that he'll lie about in an attempt to help her or them and it'll up being what ultimately destroys them. That just seemed like foreshadowing to me.


EJ also kidnapped Sydney because of Sami betraying him, if she had not kept her pregnancy a secret and not waited to tell him about their daughter until she thought her being dead the sydnapping would never have happend.
So its Sami's fault that EJ kipnapped Sydney?
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 09:18 PM
That was the night he was going to propose to Kayla!

I haven't watched that clip in so long. I didn't like it because Kayla didn't get her wish that night. Jack had his relapse, and Steve went into "save Jack no matter what!" mode.
Yeah, that would bum me out like hell. But what would a soap be if there was no suffering, right?
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Kriss4


I suffered too!

I feel my personal suffering should be noted. I mean, this was James Acheson's version of Jack, remember?

Not only was Kayla not getting her wish, Steve was giving her up for wooden Jack's sake!

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mollymay


BeeBee
Oct 6 2013, 09:19 PM
S loves EJ
Oct 6 2013, 01:35 PM
LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 11:40 AM
mollymay
Oct 6 2013, 10:36 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Ej acted out of his own accord on a few situations though that impacted Sami direction WITHOUT his father even knowing about it. I see Ej doing plenty on his own this time too...he'll likely blame Stefano for his decisions when the truth comes out, but in the end, it's all on EJ. Just like in the past....no one told him to kidnap Sydney, but he did it...without Stefano's knowledge.....he's had chances with Sami before and he's pretty much thrown those chances out the window and it's not because of Stefano.

I still don't see how stealing something that belongs to someone else and then being forced to give it back, grovel, beg and kiss the ring as a sacrifice. The sacrifice would have been if he worked long and hard to make something of his own and Stefano in exchange for helping Sami would have made him give it to him. that is a true sacrifice...but something that belonged to Stefano to begin with? yeah...no....

Oh and Sami isn't going to give a flying flip about him doing something grey to Stefano....he'll have her support when that happens....but doing something like lying, or stealing about something that her perceives would benefit her or them, but it ends up being such a huge gamble that it ends up hurting her in the end is something that I don't know if she'll be able to get past. Ej said something on Friday that I can only see it as foreshadowing...he said that sometimes you have to lie to keep the one you love. We are not aware of anything he's keeping from her recently...obviously there is a lot he hasn't told her that were written in by former writing teams that I don't think will be the focus of anything this writing team does, but there has to be something in the future that he'll lie about in an attempt to help her or them and it'll up being what ultimately destroys them. That just seemed like foreshadowing to me.


EJ also kidnapped Sydney because of Sami betraying him, if she had not kept her pregnancy a secret and not waited to tell him about their daughter until she thought her being dead the sydnapping would never have happend.
So its Sami's fault that EJ kipnapped Sydney?
Yep pretty much....he overheard Sami tell Rafe how she wished he was Sydney's father and then she time and time again shut EJ out of that little girls life in favor of the idiot unibrow.

EJ intended to take Syd and Johnny and leave the country, so Sami could not shut him out of his kids life.

So yeah, it is on some level Sami's fault that he kidnapped Sydney.
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 01:06 PM
I think it definitely adds another layer for Kayla that it was Jack that did it. Baby Billy, all grown up and there now, the baby that Jo and Stevie had so loved and missed for all those years. What Duke did to Adrienne was awful...traumatic, and just so, so terrible. But she killed him that night...she had issues over having done THAT, but she didn't have to deal with HIM anymore. He was gone.

Kayla, however, because she loved Steve, and because she knew how much Steve had always loved Billy, tried to move past it enough in the months after it happened so that Steve could try to build a relationship with him. Right after Jack found out he was a Johnson, Steve and Kayla talked, and she told him she understood if he wanted a relationship with his brother...and in spite of everything that happened, there was a part of him that did want that. But Jack was such a jerk after finding out the truth that Steve decided he didn't WANT a relationship with him for quite awhile. I understood why Jack hated the whole idea, and why he hated Steve, but I also sure understood why Steve couldn't stand Jack, either.

But it's because Kayla, in the months and years following the rape, tried so hard to let Steve build something with his brother in spite of what Jack had done to her...I KNOW Jack eventually admitted he was sorry and took responsibility...did his best to make amends in every way he could...Kayla did forgive him...and I don't think all her feelings about him are negative anymore, but there would be no way for all her feelings to be positive either.

I hope she doesn't spend all her time this week apologizing over her slip. She doesn't owe apologies. She was a victim, and most victims don't have to hear their rapists praised like they're the most wonderful person ever, so to me, the slip was understandable.

An explanation of how the slip happened? yeah. That makes sense. A wish not to see JJ hurt as a result of finding out the truth about his dad because of her slip? Yeah.

But apologies? No way.
I always found interesting that both Steve and Kayla had a separate, ideal memory of Jack (or Billy) predating his introduction to the canvas; neither had actually had spent a whole lot of time with him beforehand (and Steve only had childhood memories of baby Billy), but show kept referencing back to those respective memories in contrast to his downward spiral of 1988. I feel like it made Kayla's forgiveness just a little more believable because she was shown to have actually liked Jack as a person once, and I thought including a backstory for them kept the story from being all about the brothers Johnson. You definitely saw her sacrifice her own feelings because of her love for Steve, but I think she ultimately forgave Jack for herself. That's just my take, anyway.
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 PM
I suffered too!

I feel my personal suffering should be noted. I mean, this was James Acheson's version of Jack, remember?

Not only was Kayla not getting her wish, Steve was giving her up for wooden Jack's sake!

You know what's scary? Casey Moss sort of resembles James Acheson, ugh! lol.
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Kriss4


Yeah, in our fangroup we already noticed that! It should be said that we've also noticed Casey Moss has improved since he started, which is great. I checked imdb.com, and Days is his first acting credit, unless imdb.com has it wrong.

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SoapGal1
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LuvingLumi
Oct 6 2013, 07:47 PM
The network knows about all stories, from Safe to Sami shooting Ej to writing Ejami.... As we all know, another sure bet is the story can change on a dime as has been evident this past year
All the above has been true with regards to couples, and I do think at some point they will break up Ejami.

What I don't think is that tptb will be given the freedom they had before to write such polarizing stories with regards to them.

It seems to me from all I've heard at events & what's been reported back is that tptb like the reception that Ejami has gotten.

I think it only makes sense that they break them up at some point, but I think it will be with the thought in mind that they will put them back together down the road.

I don't think they'll ever not have AS & JS in story together again, I think that's probably what the issue with the NBC people being more involved in their story is about more so than what the particular story is. They've determined that the response/ratings is better when they're in story together than when they put them completely in other characters orbits.

This is all just my take on the things.
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SoapGal1
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I love all these conversations about Jack raping Kayla & Steve/Kayla & Adrienne.

This was probably my most favorite time to watch Days.

All the way thru Jack & Jennifer getting together... It was all so well written & acted.

It also makes me sad that the show now is nothing like it was then.

Everything flowed together & was woven in and out of each other.

It makes all these stories we're watching now seem so lacking.
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Romancer66


LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 10:22 PM
Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 09:51 PM
I suffered too!

I feel my personal suffering should be noted. I mean, this was James Acheson's version of Jack, remember?

Not only was Kayla not getting her wish, Steve was giving her up for wooden Jack's sake!

You know what's scary? Casey Moss sort of resembles James Acheson, ugh! lol.
I never saw Jack #1, but I remember thinking Jack #2 was as stiff as stone--and didn't look anything like Steve, yet they were supposed to be full brothers? Granted, MA doesn't resemble SN either, but even in his early days in the part, he left an impression other than "bland."
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Kriss4


But if COULD be said that he resembled Duke, at least his coloring was similar. Steve and Adrienne favored their mother, whereas Jack looked more like Duke.
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Kriss4


You never watched the first Jack?

Joseph Adams. He was actually pretty good. Not a bad actor at all. He had the warmth and friendliness that Jack would have needed at that point...because when he came in, he screamed "good guy."

I didn't love his Jack, because he was an obstacle for Steve and Kayla, but if he hadn't been in the interloper role, I would've been fine with him. I didn't love Matt right away either...but he was SUCH an improvement over James Acheson's version that I had to appreciate him to some extent, even though Jack was so darn inconvenient to me as a Steve and Kayla fan, LOL!

While I was fine with Joseph Adams, I often wonder if he could have pulled it off when Jack turned darker. I don't know if he could have. Certainly not with the ease that Matthew showed.

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Romancer66


Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 11:35 PM
You never watched the first Jack?

Joseph Adams. He was actually pretty good. Not a bad actor at all. He had the warmth and friendliness that Jack would have needed at that point...because when he came in, he screamed "good guy."

I didn't love his Jack, because he was an obstacle for Steve and Kayla, but if he hadn't been in the interloper role, I would've been fine with him. I didn't love Matt right away either...but he was SUCH an improvement over James Acheson's version that I had to appreciate him to some extent, even though Jack was so darn inconvenient to me as a Steve and Kayla fan, LOL!

While I was fine with Joseph Adams, I often wonder if he could have pulled it off when Jack turned darker. I don't know if he could have. Certainly not with the ease that Matthew showed.

Jack #1 was gone before I had the time to watch with any regularity, so Jack #2 was my introduction to the character ... and, yeah, seriously not good. I basically remember seeing him lying there in his white hospital gown looking way too healthy to be convincing as a dying man. And giving a performance that was both stiff and plastic--like watching a Ken doll try to act.

I wonder why they recast Jack #1 if he was doing an acceptable job. A different direction for the character, perhaps? I did hear a rumor that James Acheson was canned because he was a jerk to work with.

MA's Jack had a snotty, overprivileged edge to him practically from the word "go." He wasn't immediately likable, but he certainly wasn't dull. I'm still amazed they kept the character post-rape because violating a soap heroine is usually a fast ticket to the unemployment line, but I guess the regime back then saw something in the actor and the character that was worth developing. And I imagine it helped that MA apparently got along well with SN and MBE--in spite of playing their nemesis onscreen.
Edited by Romancer66, Oct 7 2013, 12:01 AM.
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Kriss4


It's late and I'm hitting the sack, but I do want to respond to this tomorrow night after work.

Why must there be Mondays?

Well, maybe I'll be glad...if tomorrow brings a noteworthy scene for Mary Beth. Or Judi.
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