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Friday, October 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 4 2013, 12:22 AM (11,539 Views)
Keith
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LuvingLumi
Oct 4 2013, 10:37 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:22 PM
LastLicks
Oct 4 2013, 10:19 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That's interesting. I didn't think Jennifer ever knew, but I always wondered about the rest of the family.
In part, I have always wondered if keeping the rape under wraps led to her breakdown. She'd loved Bill before the rape. And well after she wanted to be with him over Mickey. But she never really faced the rape. No idea if that ever came into play during the initial breakdown story. Probably not. Its safe to say no one in the family knows about Mike's true origins.
I really wish that they'd have one of Jen's kids have a breakdown the way Laura did....it would be a good story to have JJ end up with somekind of breakdown after this happens....not a full on catatonic state or anything but something where he needs treatment....
I could believe more or JJ than Abigail at this point, but love it for either of them. Always wanted it for Jennifer for a long, long time, but MR just doesn't have it anymore. Watching her face those mental issues skipping a generation would be priceless, though. And either CM or KM could pull that off in spades.
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LastLicks
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Harmony233
Oct 4 2013, 10:19 PM
LastLicks
Oct 4 2013, 10:05 PM
Kriss4
Oct 4 2013, 07:52 PM
Kyan
Oct 4 2013, 05:48 PM
I can't say enough about how phenomenal Judi Evans is as an actress. You could see it wasn't just about Jack and was about their father raping her also. That should be brought up and have JJ deal with could he be the third generation.
Do you think Kayla and Adrienne will have a talk about that? I mean, Duke raped Adrienne, and his son Jack raped Kayla.

They never talked about what Jack did back in the day. Adrienne talked about it with Steve, but that was before she found out that Jack was her brother, Billy.

I mean, obviously, Adrienne would still have feelings about what happened to her, and so does Kayla. Who better to understand how buried feelings bubble up to the surface sometimes?

Steve was five years old and Billy was a baby when their mom, Jo, put them in the orphanage. Billy was adopted by Harper Deveraux soon after that. Steve never did get adopted.

Adrienne was born after her big brothers were given away. She went looking for Steve when she grew up.
You know, this OT: I loved Jack and Adrienne scenes but I never technically loved their relationship, for lack of development. There was no doubt where Steve and Adrienne stood; they quickly became very close and he was the brother that she'd turn to first. I always interpreted that Jack and Adrienne were never close and thought that point was made clear . . . until it wasn't. There was a lot of effort put into developing his relationships with both Steve and Jo (which were amazing!), but he and Adrienne only shared a limited amount of spontaneous moments (most of which were also enjoyable) . . . until basically, Jack got used to the idea of having a sister and they suddenly loved each other. We never actually saw them spending time getting to know each other and any tension between them early on was never mentioned again. I did believe they finally become a family when Steve died, but Adrienne was off the show two months later, and last we heard of her was after Jackson's birth. If Matt and Judi didn't make me believe these two really did care about each other, it probably wouldn't work at all for me.
you know I was always kinda shocked Adrienne named sonny Jackson instead of after steve who everyone thought was dead at the time
Right. Certainly would have made sense to name her son after Steve, but I'd wager it didn't happen because Jack was still on canvas . . . and neither Steve nor Adrienne were at that point. But I think Adrienne was all about moving forward, and she wanted Jack to basically do the same . . . so in that sense, I can believe she'd name Sonny after Jack to reinforce that. They were still alive, after all.
Edited by LastLicks, Oct 4 2013, 10:49 PM.
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LastLicks
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LuvingLumi
Oct 4 2013, 10:37 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:22 PM
LastLicks
Oct 4 2013, 10:19 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
That's interesting. I didn't think Jennifer ever knew, but I always wondered about the rest of the family.
In part, I have always wondered if keeping the rape under wraps led to her breakdown. She'd loved Bill before the rape. And well after she wanted to be with him over Mickey. But she never really faced the rape. No idea if that ever came into play during the initial breakdown story. Probably not. Its safe to say no one in the family knows about Mike's true origins.
I really wish that they'd have one of Jen's kids have a breakdown the way Laura did....it would be a good story to have JJ end up with somekind of breakdown after this happens....not a full on catatonic state or anything but something where he needs treatment....
I wish this, too, for Jennifer! I wish for her to start seeing Jack and continuing their love affair in her mind. I also wish to basically rebuild her from the ground up and make her strong again.
Edited by LastLicks, Oct 4 2013, 10:56 PM.
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jam6242
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Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 07:44 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 07:07 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 05:53 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
As far as sexual assault goes, JJ's got the motherload in his genes, eh?
Bill's rape of Laura was before my time. Anyone remember how it was handled? Did he experience any remorse or shame? Did he face any censure from his family or the town and have to redeem himself, or was his crime swept under the rug because he married his victim?
The rape was never revealed, to my knowledge. Bill was drunk and he definitely assaulted Laura. Bill did not remember what happened and when he asked Laura, she said she had turned him away and nothing happened. She lied to preserve Mickey and Bill's relationship.
Laura did tell Tom Horton about the rape when he found out Mickey was sterile and therefore couldn't be Michael's father. I also remember Bill talking to Susan Martin about it when he dated her.

I believe Bill's "punishment" was watching his brother raise his son (and spending time in prison for Kitty's manslaughter). But, the rape was sort of glossed over as time passed and Bill and Laura were drawn back together.
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mer4santo
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I own you bitch.

Hated today's episode.
Schmoopy EJami, stupid.
EJ hugging everyone. Stupid
Abby already knowing about the rape. Stupid
Everything involving Teresa, will, Gabi or Sonny, stupid.
Nick going completely off the rails again. Yeah, stupid.

I feel like whoever wrote this one didn't even try.
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Keith
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jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 07:44 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 07:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Bill's rape of Laura was before my time. Anyone remember how it was handled? Did he experience any remorse or shame? Did he face any censure from his family or the town and have to redeem himself, or was his crime swept under the rug because he married his victim?
The rape was never revealed, to my knowledge. Bill was drunk and he definitely assaulted Laura. Bill did not remember what happened and when he asked Laura, she said she had turned him away and nothing happened. She lied to preserve Mickey and Bill's relationship.
Laura did tell Tom Horton about the rape when he found out Mickey was sterile and therefore couldn't be Michael's father. I also remember Bill talking to Susan Martin about it when he dated her.

I believe Bill's "punishment" was watching his brother raise his son (and spending time in prison for Kitty's manslaughter). But, the rape was sort of glossed over as time passed and Bill and Laura were drawn back together.
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Edited by Keith, Oct 4 2013, 11:21 PM.
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Romancer66


Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 07:44 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
The rape was never revealed, to my knowledge. Bill was drunk and he definitely assaulted Laura. Bill did not remember what happened and when he asked Laura, she said she had turned him away and nothing happened. She lied to preserve Mickey and Bill's relationship.
Laura did tell Tom Horton about the rape when he found out Mickey was sterile and therefore couldn't be Michael's father. I also remember Bill talking to Susan Martin about it when he dated her.

I believe Bill's "punishment" was watching his brother raise his son (and spending time in prison for Kitty's manslaughter). But, the rape was sort of glossed over as time passed and Bill and Laura were drawn back together.
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
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krissy-k


The writers are giving me whiplash with their writing of Gabi and Sonny. I think the story is better when they both are in bitch mode vs let's pretend we're the happy couple in this 3 is company scenario
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jb1183


:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
Edited by jb1183, Oct 5 2013, 12:28 AM.
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KAM


Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 11:49 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 10:08 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Laura did tell Tom Horton about the rape when he found out Mickey was sterile and therefore couldn't be Michael's father. I also remember Bill talking to Susan Martin about it when he dated her.

I believe Bill's "punishment" was watching his brother raise his son (and spending time in prison for Kitty's manslaughter). But, the rape was sort of glossed over as time passed and Bill and Laura were drawn back together.
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
I don't think you're getting the right picture about Bill and Laura. My mother watched DOOL from the beginning and Bill and Laura (Edward Mallory and Susan Flannery) were her favorite couple back then. They were always written as the star-crossed true lovers, with Mickey as the interloper. That's why Bill's rape of Laura was so very sad and shocking for its time. And it was old style soap at its very best. It had separated lovers, passion and secrets, repercussions and sacrifice and redemption. My mother loved it, and as a child I heard her tell the story in detail so many times that I still know it by heart.
So here goes....Laura loved Bill Horton. His brother Mickey tried to take Laura away from Bill, and the brothers fought about her. Bill and Laura were engaged, but Bill left Laura and Salem when he was diagnosed with a disease that affected his hands and prevented him from being a surgeon. Bill was in despair, but finally, at another hospital, Bill found a new therapy that helped him regain control of his hands. This was proved when he had to perform life saving, emergency surgery. (Sound familiar? It must have been done so much better the first time.)

Bill returned to Salem, but while he had been gone for so long with no word, Mickey had convinced Laura to marry him. Bill was very jealous. One night when he had lost a patient, a distraught Bill got very drunk and went to find Laura. He raped her and later passed out in a black out drunk. The next day, Bill remembered going to find Laura and was afraid he had hurt her. Bill asked Laura to tell him what he did, but Laura lied to Bill and told him she made him go away and nothing happened. No one knew about the rape until Laura became pregnant. Tom knew that Mickey was sterile from a medical report, so Tom talked to Laura and learned the truth. They both decided to keep the rape and Mickey's sterility a secret. Eventually, Bill saw the medical report and was horrified to realize what he had done to Laura. Bill also decided it was best to keep the paternity of baby Mike a secret and let brother Mickey be happy with his family. So Bill gave up Laura and his son and did not tell Laura that he knew he was the father.

HOWEVER, Tommy's meddling wife Kitty, the Horton bad girl of the day, later overheard and recorded Laura and Tom talking about Mike's paternity. Kitty tried to use her tape for blackmail, but Bill ransacked her apartment and took the tape from her. Later that night, Kitty died, and Bill was tried in connection with her death. Mickey defended Bill, but Bill was convicted because he would not reveal the secret and tell anyone why he was in Kitty's apartment fighting with her. Bill served several years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. His cell mate was Doug Williams, who returned to Salem with Bill.

It was about four years ( real time) after Mike was born that Laura found out Bill knew that he was actually the father and had kept the secret and gone to jail out of his love for her and his brother. Laura and Mickey had not been happy together. Mickey had an affair, but he and Laura had decided to stay together for Mike's sake. Laura and Bill realized that they still wanted to be with each other, but they didn't want to break up Mike's family. Unfortunately, Mike overheard them and thought they were having an affair. Mike confronted them, telling his 'Uncle Bill' that he hated him, and ran off. Mike was hit by a car. Bill saved his life but stayed away after that so that Laura could do the right thing for Mike. Later Mike learned of Mickey's affair. He became more understanding about Laura and Bill and blasted his 'father' for hurting Laura. The confrontation caused Mickey to have a major heart attack. Bill saved Mickey's life during heart surgery, but Mickey later had a stroke and amnesia, and he disappeared from the hospital. Somehow, Mickey ended up on Maggie's Farm (There must have been a Bob Dylan fan among those writers back then.) and eventually somehow he was discovered (I think it was when he was seeking medical treatment so that crippled Maggie could walk again). Mickey, still with amnesia, gave Laura a divorce to marry Bill so that Mickey could stay with Maggie.

So it was some ten years after their engagement and eight years after the drunken rape that Laura and Bill could finally marry, still protecting Mickey and Mike from the paternity secret. That finally came out when Mike had a farm accident and needed massive blood transfusions. Among the family, only Bill was a donor match. After seeing the medical records, Mickey finally learned the truth. The shock made him recover his memory, then go insane. Mickey blurted out the truth to Mike, then tried to shoot and kill his brother Bill, wounding him in the arm. Mickey was committed to an asylum for the criminally insane for a while.

Somewhere about this time, Jennifer was born. She was delivered by Bill at a cabin. It was a difficult breach birth that almost killed Laura, since Bill was hampered in the delivery by his wounded arm. Later Laura went into a deep post partum depression with psychosis and pushed Bill away. Bill and Marlena tried to help Laura recover, but Bill's brief involvement with another doctor drove Laura over the edge. She began hearing voices and then tried to hang herself. Bill saved her, but she was committed to a mental institution for many years.

So that is the back story of Bill and Laura. There was a rape, yes, but before and after there was a very long, very soapy love story of two people trying to do the right thing for family.





Edited by KAM, Oct 7 2013, 01:41 AM.
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leela46


Thanks KAM, there were details of the Bill and Laura story that I had forgot. The Bill/Laura/Mickey triangle affected so many other characters as well. Their story brought Doug Williams and eventually Marlena Evans to Salem too. The writing was on such a different level back then.
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S loves EJ


LuvingLumi
Oct 4 2013, 04:26 PM
six
Oct 4 2013, 02:49 PM
Adrienne spilling her tea right before she metaphorically spills tea amused me more than it should have.

I like that EJ continues to steer Chad down the wrong path in a genuine attempt to help. Like someone I follow on twitter said, it would have been better if Sami had gotten in on it. Faking medical records is her area of expertise after all.

I have a feeling Will is going to be the first of many Bradys to complain about Sami living with Sami, which is going to get old, really fast, since the rest of them didn't have anything to say a couple of months ago. It's also nice that Sami finally recognizes and is grateful for the sacrifice EJ made for her.

It bothered me that Jen seemed to disapprove of Kayla's slip. Apparently the rape is a dark family secret that everyone has decided to shield the kids from, which makes sense, but it's not like Adrienne, or someone not directly involved, made the comment that set JJ on the course to finding out the whole story. JJ is an adult now and it's Kayla's story to tell, or hint at, if that's what she wants to do.
Actually I remember Marlena having a chat with Sami about that when she moved in with the kids back in the spring.....I can't recall if Roman ever said anything since he's barely on....but I do recall Marlena voicing her discontent.

On the JJ thing...what bothers me is that it should be up to the parents to tell the child in whatever way they see fit. If I were writing, I would have had Jen approach Kayla and have them both sit JJ down and tell him. I guess it would have looked even worse since the excuse to tell him during this troubled time in his life would have been to make him not see Dan in such a bad light, considering his father did something so horrible....forget it...lol

I do remember that it was an EJ/Roman scene earlier this year, but I think it was the engagment not about Ejami moving in to the mansion Roman was unhappy about. He said something like they hadnīt told him about it but he guessed it was because they knew he wouldnīt be happy about it.
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Yoryla
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krissy-k
Oct 5 2013, 12:05 AM
The writers are giving me whiplash with their writing of Gabi and Sonny. I think the story is better when they both are in bitch mode vs let's pretend we're the happy couple in this 3 is company scenario
I agree. Sonny and Gabi work best when they're trying to out-bitch eachother.
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magicsteacher
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jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
It's all So. Much. Bullshit...just like this entire Ejami storyline.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

KAM
Oct 5 2013, 01:19 AM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 11:49 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
I don't think you're getting the right picture about Bill and Laura. My mother watched DOOL from the beginning and Bill and Laura (Edward Mallory and Susan Flannery) were her favorite couple back then. They were always written as the star-crossed true lovers, with Mickey as the interloper. That's why Bill's rape of Laura was so very sad and shocking for its time. And it was old style soap at its very best. It had separated lovers, passion and secrets, repercussions and sacrifice and redemption. My mother loved it, and as a child I heard her tell the story in detail so many times that I still know it by heart.
So here goes....Laura loved Bill Horton. His brother Mickey tried to take Laura away from Bill, and the brothers fought about her. Bill and Laura were engaged, but Bill left Laura and Salem when he was diagnosed with a disease that affected his hands and prevented him from being a surgeon. Bill was in despair, but finally, at another hospital, Bill found a new therapy that helped him regain control of his hands. This was proved when he had to perform life saving, emergency surgery. (Sound familiar? It must have been done so much better the first time.)

Bill returned to Salem, but while he had been gone for so long with no word, Mickey had convinced Laura to marry him. Bill was very jealous. One night when he had lost a patient, a distraught Bill got very drunk and went to find Laura. He raped her and later passed out in a black out drunk. The next day, Bill remembered going to find Laura and was afraid he had hurt her. Bill asked Laura to tell him what he did, but Laura lied to Bill and told him she made him go away and nothing happened. No one knew about the rape until Laura became pregnant. Tom knew that Mickey was sterile from a medical report, so Tom talked to Laura and learned the truth. They both decided to keep the rape and Mickey's sterility a secret. Eventually, Bill saw the medical report and was horrified to realize what he had done to Laura. Bill also decided it was best to keep the paternity of baby Mike a secret and let brother Mickey be happy with his family. So Bill gave up Laura and his son and did not tell Laura that he knew he was the father.

HOWEVER, Tommy's meddling wife Kitty, the Horton bad girl of the day, later overheard and recorded Laura and Tom talking about Mike's paternity. Kitty tried to use her tape for blackmail, but Bill ransacked her apartment and took the tape from her. Later that night, Kitty was murdered, and Bill was tried for the crime. Mickey defended Bill, but Bill was convicted because he would not reveal the secret and tell anyone why he was in Kitty's apartment fighting with her. Bill served several years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. His cell mate was Doug Williams, who returned to Salem with Bill.

It was about four years ( real time) after Mike was born that Laura found out Bill knew that he was actually the father and had kept the secret and gone to jail out of his love for her and his brother. Laura and Mickey had not been happy together. Mickey had an affair, but he and Laura had decided to stay together for Mike's sake. Laura and Bill realized that they still wanted to be with each other, but they didn't want to break up Mike's family. Unfortunately, Mike overheard them and thought they were having an affair. Mike confronted them, telling his 'Uncle Bill' that he hated him, and ran off. Mike was hit by a car. Bill saved his life but stayed away after that so that Laura could do the right thing for Mike. Later Mike learned of Mickey's affair. He became more understanding about Laura and Bill and blasted his 'father' for hurting Laura. The confrontation caused Mickey to have a major heart attack. Bill saved Mickey's life during heart surgery, but Mickey later had a stroke and amnesia, and he disappeared from the hospital. Somehow, Mickey ended up on Maggie's Farm (There must have been a Bob Dylan fan among those writers back then.) and eventually somehow he was discovered (I think it was when he was seeking medical treatment so that crippled Maggie could walk again). Mickey, still with amnesia, gave Laura a divorce to marry Bill so that Mickey could stay with Maggie.

So it was some ten years after their engagement and eight years after the drunken rape that Laura and Bill could finally marry, still protecting Mickey and Mike from the paternity secret. That finally came out when Mike had a farm accident and needed massive blood transfusions. Among the family, only Bill was a donor match. After seeing the medical records, Mickey finally learned the truth. The shock made him recover his memory, then go insane. Mickey blurted out the truth to Mike, then tried to shoot and kill his brother Bill. Mickey was committed to an asylum for a while.

Somewhere about this time, Jennifer was born. Laura went into a deep post partum depression and pushed Bill away. Bill and Marlena tried to help Laura recover, but Bill had gotten involved with another doctor and finding out about the affair drove Laura over the edge. She tried to hang herself. Bill saved her, but she was committed to a mental institution for many years.

So that is the back story of Bill and Laura. There was a rape, yes, but before and after there was a very long, very soapy love story of two people trying to do the right thing for family.





Thank you for the fabulous recap! This isn't a part I've recalled from when my mom used to watch when I was a kid. Such good soap!
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Romancer66


KAM
Oct 5 2013, 01:19 AM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 11:49 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
I don't think you're getting the right picture about Bill and Laura. My mother watched DOOL from the beginning and Bill and Laura (Edward Mallory and Susan Flannery) were her favorite couple back then. They were always written as the star-crossed true lovers, with Mickey as the interloper. That's why Bill's rape of Laura was so very sad and shocking for its time. And it was old style soap at its very best. It had separated lovers, passion and secrets, repercussions and sacrifice and redemption. My mother loved it, and as a child I heard her tell the story in detail so many times that I still know it by heart.
So here goes....Laura loved Bill Horton. His brother Mickey tried to take Laura away from Bill, and the brothers fought about her. Bill and Laura were engaged, but Bill left Laura and Salem when he was diagnosed with a disease that affected his hands and prevented him from being a surgeon. Bill was in despair, but finally, at another hospital, Bill found a new therapy that helped him regain control of his hands. This was proved when he had to perform life saving, emergency surgery. (Sound familiar? It must have been done so much better the first time.)

Bill returned to Salem, but while he had been gone for so long with no word, Mickey had convinced Laura to marry him. Bill was very jealous. One night when he had lost a patient, a distraught Bill got very drunk and went to find Laura. He raped her and later passed out in a black out drunk. The next day, Bill remembered going to find Laura and was afraid he had hurt her. Bill asked Laura to tell him what he did, but Laura lied to Bill and told him she made him go away and nothing happened. No one knew about the rape until Laura became pregnant. Tom knew that Mickey was sterile from a medical report, so Tom talked to Laura and learned the truth. They both decided to keep the rape and Mickey's sterility a secret. Eventually, Bill saw the medical report and was horrified to realize what he had done to Laura. Bill also decided it was best to keep the paternity of baby Mike a secret and let brother Mickey be happy with his family. So Bill gave up Laura and his son and did not tell Laura that he knew he was the father.

HOWEVER, Tommy's meddling wife Kitty, the Horton bad girl of the day, later overheard and recorded Laura and Tom talking about Mike's paternity. Kitty tried to use her tape for blackmail, but Bill ransacked her apartment and took the tape from her. Later that night, Kitty was murdered, and Bill was tried for the crime. Mickey defended Bill, but Bill was convicted because he would not reveal the secret and tell anyone why he was in Kitty's apartment fighting with her. Bill served several years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. His cell mate was Doug Williams, who returned to Salem with Bill.

It was about four years ( real time) after Mike was born that Laura found out Bill knew that he was actually the father and had kept the secret and gone to jail out of his love for her and his brother. Laura and Mickey had not been happy together. Mickey had an affair, but he and Laura had decided to stay together for Mike's sake. Laura and Bill realized that they still wanted to be with each other, but they didn't want to break up Mike's family. Unfortunately, Mike overheard them and thought they were having an affair. Mike confronted them, telling his 'Uncle Bill' that he hated him, and ran off. Mike was hit by a car. Bill saved his life but stayed away after that so that Laura could do the right thing for Mike. Later Mike learned of Mickey's affair. He became more understanding about Laura and Bill and blasted his 'father' for hurting Laura. The confrontation caused Mickey to have a major heart attack. Bill saved Mickey's life during heart surgery, but Mickey later had a stroke and amnesia, and he disappeared from the hospital. Somehow, Mickey ended up on Maggie's Farm (There must have been a Bob Dylan fan among those writers back then.) and eventually somehow he was discovered (I think it was when he was seeking medical treatment so that crippled Maggie could walk again). Mickey, still with amnesia, gave Laura a divorce to marry Bill so that Mickey could stay with Maggie.

So it was some ten years after their engagement and eight years after the drunken rape that Laura and Bill could finally marry, still protecting Mickey and Mike from the paternity secret. That finally came out when Mike had a farm accident and needed massive blood transfusions. Among the family, only Bill was a donor match. After seeing the medical records, Mickey finally learned the truth. The shock made him recover his memory, then go insane. Mickey blurted out the truth to Mike, then tried to shoot and kill his brother Bill. Mickey was committed to an asylum for a while.

Somewhere about this time, Jennifer was born. Laura went into a deep post partum depression and pushed Bill away. Bill and Marlena tried to help Laura recover, but Bill had gotten involved with another doctor and finding out about the affair drove Laura over the edge. She tried to hang herself. Bill saved her, but she was committed to a mental institution for many years.

So that is the back story of Bill and Laura. There was a rape, yes, but before and after there was a very long, very soapy love story of two people trying to do the right thing for family.





Thanks for providing a fuller picture, KAM! I don't know that it makes me like Bill any better in retrospect, or cease to wonder how Laura could have forgiven him for the rape, previous romance and lingering feelings, or not, but it does sound like the kind of story that provided years of soapy complications for all the characters involved.
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camera shy


jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
And I'm still not seeing 'the great sacrifice'. He goes off with Sami whenever he likes, seems to have all the time in the world to do whatever he wants......where's 'the great sacrifice'?
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S loves EJ


I think itīs coming that Stefano will want EJ to do things for him, and then we will see how big sacrifice EJ has made.
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six
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Harmony233
Oct 4 2013, 10:19 PM
LastLicks
Oct 4 2013, 10:05 PM
Kriss4
Oct 4 2013, 07:52 PM
Kyan
Oct 4 2013, 05:48 PM
I can't say enough about how phenomenal Judi Evans is as an actress. You could see it wasn't just about Jack and was about their father raping her also. That should be brought up and have JJ deal with could he be the third generation.
Do you think Kayla and Adrienne will have a talk about that? I mean, Duke raped Adrienne, and his son Jack raped Kayla.

They never talked about what Jack did back in the day. Adrienne talked about it with Steve, but that was before she found out that Jack was her brother, Billy.

I mean, obviously, Adrienne would still have feelings about what happened to her, and so does Kayla. Who better to understand how buried feelings bubble up to the surface sometimes?

Steve was five years old and Billy was a baby when their mom, Jo, put them in the orphanage. Billy was adopted by Harper Deveraux soon after that. Steve never did get adopted.

Adrienne was born after her big brothers were given away. She went looking for Steve when she grew up.
You know, this OT: I loved Jack and Adrienne scenes but I never technically loved their relationship, for lack of development. There was no doubt where Steve and Adrienne stood; they quickly became very close and he was the brother that she'd turn to first. I always interpreted that Jack and Adrienne were never close and thought that point was made clear . . . until it wasn't. There was a lot of effort put into developing his relationships with both Steve and Jo (which were amazing!), but he and Adrienne only shared a limited amount of spontaneous moments (most of which were also enjoyable) . . . until basically, Jack got used to the idea of having a sister and they suddenly loved each other. We never actually saw them spending time getting to know each other and any tension between them early on was never mentioned again. I did believe they finally become a family when Steve died, but Adrienne was off the show two months later, and last we heard of her was after Jackson's birth. If Matt and Judi didn't make me believe these two really did care about each other, it probably wouldn't work at all for me.
you know I was always kinda shocked Adrienne named sonny Jackson instead of after steve who everyone thought was dead at the time
He's Jackson Steven, so she pretty much did. Maybe the writers at the time realized it's not a good idea to give characters the exact same name. We'll probably never see either of the Kiriakis twins, due to that.

On Bill/Laura, my understanding from the history thread Matt did awhile ago was that by the time Mickey found out about Mike, the rape had been retconned into a sort of semi consensual seduction.* So, Laura didn't cheat, but Mike never had to come to terms with being conceived during a rape.

*And please send all complaints about there being no such thing to the Days writers at the time, and not to me lol.
Edited by six, Oct 5 2013, 10:04 AM.
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mirabella


jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
Thank you for saying what I was thinking in a coherent way! lol I don't know how or why the show would think that many of us would ever forget all that EJ has done to Sami, her children and the Brady's the last 7 years. It is just so ridiculous!
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