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Friday, October 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 4 2013, 12:22 AM (11,686 Views)
S loves EJ


Maybe because there is a lot of people that loves Ejami and has forgiven EJ.
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somuchwhatever
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Brotherly Love

After yesterday's scenes (especially with MBE and Judi Evans), I am cautiously optimistic that the rape revisit won't be mishandled. I'm still waiting for a day when Daniel isn't mentioned in relation to the story, but I don't think I'll hold my breath on that one.

Count me among those who believe Kayla owes no apologies. Was the fact she slipped when she didn't want to unfortunate? Yes, but not as unfortunate as her being violated in a malicious act. I'm a huge Jack fan (and obviously a huge MA fan), but no amount of redemption of Jack as a character changes the fact that Kayla was horrifically assaulted and violated. If making a crack to the lack of Jack's sainthood is the worst she's done, then she's miles ahead of what most raped women would be willing to suppress for the sake of a family dynamic.
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mirabella


magicsteacher
Oct 5 2013, 08:03 AM
jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
It's all So. Much. Bullshit...just like this entire Ejami storyline.
So very well said! I couldn't agree more ........so much Bullshit sums it up nicely!
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mirabella


camera shy
Oct 5 2013, 09:33 AM
jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
And I'm still not seeing 'the great sacrifice'. He goes off with Sami whenever he likes, seems to have all the time in the world to do whatever he wants......where's 'the great sacrifice'?
I don't see the great sacrifice either, not yet any way. He gave back to Stefano everything that he stole from him anyway.

It seems to me that Sami is the one making the big sacrifice for her innocent children. They are the ones who now have to live in the house of the devil because of that deal. Poor Johnny, Allie and Sydney. Now that Lucas knows what is going on, I don't understand why he would let Allie live there. He needs to save the one child he can while he can.
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Romancer66


somuchwhatever
Oct 5 2013, 10:39 AM
After yesterday's scenes (especially with MBE and Judi Evans), I am cautiously optimistic that the rape revisit won't be mishandled. I'm still waiting for a day when Daniel isn't mentioned in relation to the story, but I don't think I'll hold my breath on that one.

Count me among those who believe Kayla owes no apologies. Was the fact she slipped when she didn't want to unfortunate? Yes, but not as unfortunate as her being violated in a malicious act. I'm a huge Jack fan (and obviously a huge MA fan), but no amount of redemption of Jack as a character changes the fact that Kayla was horrifically assaulted and violated. If making a crack to the lack of Jack's sainthood is the worst she's done, then she's miles ahead of what most raped women would be willing to suppress for the sake of a family dynamic.
Kayla doesn't owe an apology--her feelings are her own and she has a right to them--but I think it was appropriate that she went over to Jennifer's to explain what had happened, if only because the slip she made was so potentially volatile and can affect so many living people. And because JJ clearly wasn't willing to just let it go. If you think you've done something to trigger a possible disaster, it's only right to warn people in the vicinity so they can get out of the way--or otherwise attempt to defuse the situation. I'm just mystified that all three women were wringing their hands and worrying about JJ finding out "the wrong way" and not actively taking steps to ensure he learned "the right way" or rather, "the least damaging way"--if such a thing even exists. This whole "conspiracy of silence" thing is going to blow up in their faces, big time.

I wish I knew when J&J had told Abigail about the rape. Personally, I think telling her after she tried to break up Austin and Carrie's marriage would have been a perfect time, dramatically speaking. I could imagine Jack bringing it up because he didn't want to see his daughter making the same mistakes he did, resorting to dirty tricks or physical force to land/hang on to someone who loves someone else. And Abigail's own guilt and shame might have made her more receptive to his message. It's unlikely to happen with this regime, but if MA ever comes back, couldn't the show film J&J telling Abigail as a flashback?
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Kriss4


I feel a little robbed that we didn't get to see Stephanie and Abby find out, and how that might've impacted their cousinly relationship and the dynamic within the bigger family uni: Kayla, Steve, Jack, jennifer. I'm glad we're seeing it now with JJ, but so much more drama was possible, and its unfortunate that it was never pursued.

I'm glad they're including Adrienne's reactions too. I'm waiting for some scenes where Jennifer, Kayla, and Adrienne come together to discuss this. It's such a complicated situation...so deeply painful and difficult a topic for each of them, but who better to understand all those feelings than each other?
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Sariah
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KAM
Oct 5 2013, 01:19 AM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 11:49 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM
jam6242
Oct 4 2013, 11:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I would kill to see that scene between Mac and La Flannery.

Obviously Bill learned that he did rape Laura when he learned Mike was his. Mickey raising Mike was definitely Bill's punishment. Mike called Mickey "dad" until his death.
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
I don't think you're getting the right picture about Bill and Laura. My mother watched DOOL from the beginning and Bill and Laura (Edward Mallory and Susan Flannery) were her favorite couple back then. They were always written as the star-crossed true lovers, with Mickey as the interloper. That's why Bill's rape of Laura was so very sad and shocking for its time. And it was old style soap at its very best. It had separated lovers, passion and secrets, repercussions and sacrifice and redemption. My mother loved it, and as a child I heard her tell the story in detail so many times that I still know it by heart.
So here goes....Laura loved Bill Horton. His brother Mickey tried to take Laura away from Bill, and the brothers fought about her. Bill and Laura were engaged, but Bill left Laura and Salem when he was diagnosed with a disease that affected his hands and prevented him from being a surgeon. Bill was in despair, but finally, at another hospital, Bill found a new therapy that helped him regain control of his hands. This was proved when he had to perform life saving, emergency surgery. (Sound familiar? It must have been done so much better the first time.)

Bill returned to Salem, but while he had been gone for so long with no word, Mickey had convinced Laura to marry him. Bill was very jealous. One night when he had lost a patient, a distraught Bill got very drunk and went to find Laura. He raped her and later passed out in a black out drunk. The next day, Bill remembered going to find Laura and was afraid he had hurt her. Bill asked Laura to tell him what he did, but Laura lied to Bill and told him she made him go away and nothing happened. No one knew about the rape until Laura became pregnant. Tom knew that Mickey was sterile from a medical report, so Tom talked to Laura and learned the truth. They both decided to keep the rape and Mickey's sterility a secret. Eventually, Bill saw the medical report and was horrified to realize what he had done to Laura. Bill also decided it was best to keep the paternity of baby Mike a secret and let brother Mickey be happy with his family. So Bill gave up Laura and his son and did not tell Laura that he knew he was the father.

HOWEVER, Tommy's meddling wife Kitty, the Horton bad girl of the day, later overheard and recorded Laura and Tom talking about Mike's paternity. Kitty tried to use her tape for blackmail, but Bill ransacked her apartment and took the tape from her. Later that night, Kitty was murdered, and Bill was tried for the crime. Mickey defended Bill, but Bill was convicted because he would not reveal the secret and tell anyone why he was in Kitty's apartment fighting with her. Bill served several years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. His cell mate was Doug Williams, who returned to Salem with Bill.

It was about four years ( real time) after Mike was born that Laura found out Bill knew that he was actually the father and had kept the secret and gone to jail out of his love for her and his brother. Laura and Mickey had not been happy together. Mickey had an affair, but he and Laura had decided to stay together for Mike's sake. Laura and Bill realized that they still wanted to be with each other, but they didn't want to break up Mike's family. Unfortunately, Mike overheard them and thought they were having an affair. Mike confronted them, telling his 'Uncle Bill' that he hated him, and ran off. Mike was hit by a car. Bill saved his life but stayed away after that so that Laura could do the right thing for Mike. Later Mike learned of Mickey's affair. He became more understanding about Laura and Bill and blasted his 'father' for hurting Laura. The confrontation caused Mickey to have a major heart attack. Bill saved Mickey's life during heart surgery, but Mickey later had a stroke and amnesia, and he disappeared from the hospital. Somehow, Mickey ended up on Maggie's Farm (There must have been a Bob Dylan fan among those writers back then.) and eventually somehow he was discovered (I think it was when he was seeking medical treatment so that crippled Maggie could walk again). Mickey, still with amnesia, gave Laura a divorce to marry Bill so that Mickey could stay with Maggie.

So it was some ten years after their engagement and eight years after the drunken rape that Laura and Bill could finally marry, still protecting Mickey and Mike from the paternity secret. That finally came out when Mike had a farm accident and needed massive blood transfusions. Among the family, only Bill was a donor match. After seeing the medical records, Mickey finally learned the truth. The shock made him recover his memory, then go insane. Mickey blurted out the truth to Mike, then tried to shoot and kill his brother Bill. Mickey was committed to an asylum for a while.

Somewhere about this time, Jennifer was born. Laura went into a deep post partum depression and pushed Bill away. Bill and Marlena tried to help Laura recover, but Bill had gotten involved with another doctor and finding out about the affair drove Laura over the edge. She tried to hang herself. Bill saved her, but she was committed to a mental institution for many years.

So that is the back story of Bill and Laura. There was a rape, yes, but before and after there was a very long, very soapy love story of two people trying to do the right thing for family.





Thanks for the recap - that was more entertaining than anything that's been on Days for years! :)

And I think it is probably also important to note - during this time period (1970s/early 1980s or so), romance often had rapes (or very forceful seductions) between heroes and heroines. Sometimes just as a dominance thing, sometimes as a woman really wanting it but not being able to say yes because of her upbringing, thus giving her an "out" to doing it (not her choice), but so many popular romance novels written during this time featured rapes (i.e., Judith McNaught's "Whitney, My Love" - where the hero believes the heroine to have cheated on him, and so rapes her, only to discover mid-act that she was still, in fact, a virgin, but they eventually end up together. Made my head explode). Fortunately that fell out of fashion, but my guess is that it didn't mean the same thing to an audience back then that it would mean for us today (see also: Luke and Laura on GH).

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DesignatedShelley
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I watched Thursday and Friday on a binge so I might be mixing up days here. I also skipped like a week before because this show is boring.

I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.

I'd also love it if Jennifer doesn't know about Bill raping Laura but finds out, for probably the same reasons as LastLicks. I always thought it could be a vehicle for redefining Jennifer, drawing together scattered threads into a cohesive statement. Now that she's already had a talk about Jack raping Kayla with Abby it could play differently than how I'd always seen it though.

I "liked" how JJ tricked Adrienne into thinking he already knows everything, in that it was clever and got a dramatic moment for Judi to play. I am anticipating the Kayla and Adrienne scene that's supposed to be coming up, but with caution as I don't think it'll be what I want.

I am ... intrigued, for lack of anything better to say, about Nick. Because I'm crap about keeping up with gossip I don't know if Blake Berris is staying or going, but I don't really care about Nick being a good guy or a bad guy as much as him being a viable character. There are certain lines that once you cross them, staying viable becomes harder, and I just like BB too much to want him off. I can say that he's successfully creeping me out, so kudos to Blake.

I am still watching and waiting to see how Daniel figures in to the whole "making XYZ look good/bad" thing, but I am more convinced that Kayla will be a bytstander, unfortunately. Could be wrong. But I think this is about JJ more than anyone.

Theresa being "not there" for her job is, well, obvious. She never made herself out to be a serious career woman, she's obviously only doing it because she has to and she's making trouble along the way because that's, well, who she is, a troubled (overgrown) teen. Anne OTOH ... as much as I may like the actress, her motivations are still kinda dumb. Jen Lilley may not be a convincing youngster but Anne is clearly much older than her, it looks like she's getting into Scooby Doo hijinks because ...she has nothing better to do? Like, I've had tons of coworkers and bosses who skate by on doing jackshit for work, for abusing rules, etc, I don't devote my life to Revenge. Jennifer did nothing personal to start something with Anne; as much as I may think Jennifer's character needs some rehab, it doesn't necessarily make Anne ... look good ... Theresa OTOH doesn't need to look good because we're supposed to see her as a fuck-up. Anne, I don't know that we are.
Edited by DesignatedShelley, Oct 5 2013, 04:32 PM.
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DesignatedShelley
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Kriss4
Oct 5 2013, 01:02 PM
I feel a little robbed that we didn't get to see Stephanie and Abby find out, and how that might've impacted their cousinly relationship and the dynamic within the bigger family uni: Kayla, Steve, Jack, jennifer. I'm glad we're seeing it now with JJ, but so much more drama was possible, and its unfortunate that it was never pursued.

I'm glad they're including Adrienne's reactions too. I'm waiting for some scenes where Jennifer, Kayla, and Adrienne come together to discuss this. It's such a complicated situation...so deeply painful and difficult a topic for each of them, but who better to understand all those feelings than each other?
I wanted to see Abby find out, but I guess ... I can see that it would conveniently "explain" some changes in the Abby-Jack dynamic that some viewers found jarring (she used to be his #1 cheerleader but later less so ... again, better for on screen drama but since the change happened anyway I can see how it would explain it retroactively). But Stephanie's still left and as bizarre as it is that she doesn't know, at least it leaves the door open for drama. I only fear that any reveals coming out of this whole connected family would leave things feeling redundant. Rape was/is used so irresponsibly on daytime, I really hated it when Stephanie was raped and just tuned out.

But I think it would be really interesting to see Abby and Stephanie as close cousins and see what this did to them. I remember when Chelsea was on Abby was kinda torn between Stephanie and her, but I still felt that they were on good terms generally. I don't remember everything, my brain probably feels like it's better to devote its memory space to things other than DAYS.
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trojangal
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DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:25 PM
I watched Thursday and Friday on a binge so I might be mixing up days here. I also skipped like a week before because this show is boring.

I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.

I'd also love it if Jennifer doesn't know about Bill raping Laura but finds out, for probably the same reasons as LastLicks. I always thought it could be a vehicle for redefining Jennifer, drawing together scattered threads into a cohesive statement. Now that she's already had a talk about Jack raping Kayla with Abby it could play differently than how I'd always seen it though.

I "liked" how JJ tricked Adrienne into thinking he already knows everything, in that it was clever and got a dramatic moment for Judi to play. I am anticipating the Kayla and Adrienne scene that's supposed to be coming up, but with caution as I don't think it'll be what I want.

I am ... intrigued, for lack of anything better to say, about Nick. Because I'm crap about keeping up with gossip I don't know if Blake Berris is staying or going, but I don't really care about Nick being a good guy or a bad guy as much as him being a viable character. There are certain lines that once you cross them, staying viable becomes harder, and I just like BB too much to want him off. I can say that he's successfully creeping me out, so kudos to Blake.

I am still watching and waiting to see how Daniel figures in to the whole "making XYZ look good/bad" thing, but I am more convinced that Kayla will be a bytstander, unfortunately. Could be wrong. But I think this is about JJ more than anyone.

Theresa being "not there" for her job is, well, obvious. She never made herself out to be a serious career woman, she's obviously only doing it because she has to and she's making trouble along the way because that's, well, who she is, a troubled (overgrown) teen. Anne OTOH ... as much as I may like the actress, her motivations are still kinda dumb. Jen Lilley may not be a convincing youngster but Anne is clearly much older than her, it looks like she's getting into Scooby Doo hijinks because ...she has nothing better to do? Like, I've had tons of coworkers and bosses who skate by on doing jackshit for work, for abusing rules, etc, I don't devote my life to Revenge. Jennifer did nothing personal to start something with Anne; as much as I may think Jennifer's character needs some rehab, it doesn't necessarily make Anne ... look good ... Theresa OTOH doesn't need to look good because we're supposed to see her as a fuck-up. Anne, I don't know that we are.
When I met Blake at the fan event in Chicago
8/24 I asked him if he was still on the show & he said
Yes. That was the day after the news about Chandler
Being let go was released.
So if Blake was truthful & not just saying that because of a storyline
Surprise he will be on at least through Thanksgiving
Edited by trojangal, Oct 5 2013, 04:56 PM.
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Kriss4


Sariah
Oct 5 2013, 01:19 PM
KAM
Oct 5 2013, 01:19 AM
Romancer66
Oct 4 2013, 11:49 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 11:20 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Thanks for the history lesson! It's kind of mind-bending to see how differently the show dealt with rape from era to era. It sounds as though Bill was kind of allowed to "skate" because he was a)drunk and b)couldn't remember the rape. And because Laura told him nothing happened. But it doesn't appear that Bill was ever expected to feel shame or remorse, even when he did find out. Or that he spent any time as the town pariah for raping his ex-girlfriend/brother's fiancee. Quite a contrast to the Jack and Kayla storyline, which I guess represents something of a step forward by not glossing over the severity of the offense or the rapist's culpability. For the record, I've never much liked what I've seen of Bill, even without knowing the details of what happened between him, Laura, and Mickey. He always seemed stiff, arrogant, and a touch harsh.
I don't think you're getting the right picture about Bill and Laura. My mother watched DOOL from the beginning and Bill and Laura (Edward Mallory and Susan Flannery) were her favorite couple back then. They were always written as the star-crossed true lovers, with Mickey as the interloper. That's why Bill's rape of Laura was so very sad and shocking for its time. And it was old style soap at its very best. It had separated lovers, passion and secrets, repercussions and sacrifice and redemption. My mother loved it, and as a child I heard her tell the story in detail so many times that I still know it by heart.
So here goes....Laura loved Bill Horton. His brother Mickey tried to take Laura away from Bill, and the brothers fought about her. Bill and Laura were engaged, but Bill left Laura and Salem when he was diagnosed with a disease that affected his hands and prevented him from being a surgeon. Bill was in despair, but finally, at another hospital, Bill found a new therapy that helped him regain control of his hands. This was proved when he had to perform life saving, emergency surgery. (Sound familiar? It must have been done so much better the first time.)

Bill returned to Salem, but while he had been gone for so long with no word, Mickey had convinced Laura to marry him. Bill was very jealous. One night when he had lost a patient, a distraught Bill got very drunk and went to find Laura. He raped her and later passed out in a black out drunk. The next day, Bill remembered going to find Laura and was afraid he had hurt her. Bill asked Laura to tell him what he did, but Laura lied to Bill and told him she made him go away and nothing happened. No one knew about the rape until Laura became pregnant. Tom knew that Mickey was sterile from a medical report, so Tom talked to Laura and learned the truth. They both decided to keep the rape and Mickey's sterility a secret. Eventually, Bill saw the medical report and was horrified to realize what he had done to Laura. Bill also decided it was best to keep the paternity of baby Mike a secret and let brother Mickey be happy with his family. So Bill gave up Laura and his son and did not tell Laura that he knew he was the father.

HOWEVER, Tommy's meddling wife Kitty, the Horton bad girl of the day, later overheard and recorded Laura and Tom talking about Mike's paternity. Kitty tried to use her tape for blackmail, but Bill ransacked her apartment and took the tape from her. Later that night, Kitty was murdered, and Bill was tried for the crime. Mickey defended Bill, but Bill was convicted because he would not reveal the secret and tell anyone why he was in Kitty's apartment fighting with her. Bill served several years in prison for involuntary manslaughter. His cell mate was Doug Williams, who returned to Salem with Bill.

It was about four years ( real time) after Mike was born that Laura found out Bill knew that he was actually the father and had kept the secret and gone to jail out of his love for her and his brother. Laura and Mickey had not been happy together. Mickey had an affair, but he and Laura had decided to stay together for Mike's sake. Laura and Bill realized that they still wanted to be with each other, but they didn't want to break up Mike's family. Unfortunately, Mike overheard them and thought they were having an affair. Mike confronted them, telling his 'Uncle Bill' that he hated him, and ran off. Mike was hit by a car. Bill saved his life but stayed away after that so that Laura could do the right thing for Mike. Later Mike learned of Mickey's affair. He became more understanding about Laura and Bill and blasted his 'father' for hurting Laura. The confrontation caused Mickey to have a major heart attack. Bill saved Mickey's life during heart surgery, but Mickey later had a stroke and amnesia, and he disappeared from the hospital. Somehow, Mickey ended up on Maggie's Farm (There must have been a Bob Dylan fan among those writers back then.) and eventually somehow he was discovered (I think it was when he was seeking medical treatment so that crippled Maggie could walk again). Mickey, still with amnesia, gave Laura a divorce to marry Bill so that Mickey could stay with Maggie.

So it was some ten years after their engagement and eight years after the drunken rape that Laura and Bill could finally marry, still protecting Mickey and Mike from the paternity secret. That finally came out when Mike had a farm accident and needed massive blood transfusions. Among the family, only Bill was a donor match. After seeing the medical records, Mickey finally learned the truth. The shock made him recover his memory, then go insane. Mickey blurted out the truth to Mike, then tried to shoot and kill his brother Bill. Mickey was committed to an asylum for a while.

Somewhere about this time, Jennifer was born. Laura went into a deep post partum depression and pushed Bill away. Bill and Marlena tried to help Laura recover, but Bill had gotten involved with another doctor and finding out about the affair drove Laura over the edge. She tried to hang herself. Bill saved her, but she was committed to a mental institution for many years.

So that is the back story of Bill and Laura. There was a rape, yes, but before and after there was a very long, very soapy love story of two people trying to do the right thing for family.





Thanks for the recap - that was more entertaining than anything that's been on Days for years! :)

And I think it is probably also important to note - during this time period (1970s/early 1980s or so), romance often had rapes (or very forceful seductions) between heroes and heroines. Sometimes just as a dominance thing, sometimes as a woman really wanting it but not being able to say yes because of her upbringing, thus giving her an "out" to doing it (not her choice), but so many popular romance novels written during this time featured rapes (i.e., Judith McNaught's "Whitney, My Love" - where the hero believes the heroine to have cheated on him, and so rapes her, only to discover mid-act that she was still, in fact, a virgin, but they eventually end up together. Made my head explode). Fortunately that fell out of fashion, but my guess is that it didn't mean the same thing to an audience back then that it would mean for us today (see also: Luke and Laura on GH).

Wait. Wait. Wait!

Is there a Kayla/Adrienne scene upcoming? Is there? Do we know this for sure?

I've been hoping there will be, but I hadn't heard if there IS.

So, is there?

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Kriss4


DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:31 PM
Kriss4
Oct 5 2013, 01:02 PM
I feel a little robbed that we didn't get to see Stephanie and Abby find out, and how that might've impacted their cousinly relationship and the dynamic within the bigger family uni: Kayla, Steve, Jack, jennifer. I'm glad we're seeing it now with JJ, but so much more drama was possible, and its unfortunate that it was never pursued.

I'm glad they're including Adrienne's reactions too. I'm waiting for some scenes where Jennifer, Kayla, and Adrienne come together to discuss this. It's such a complicated situation...so deeply painful and difficult a topic for each of them, but who better to understand all those feelings than each other?
I wanted to see Abby find out, but I guess ... I can see that it would conveniently "explain" some changes in the Abby-Jack dynamic that some viewers found jarring (she used to be his #1 cheerleader but later less so ... again, better for on screen drama but since the change happened anyway I can see how it would explain it retroactively). But Stephanie's still left and as bizarre as it is that she doesn't know, at least it leaves the door open for drama. I only fear that any reveals coming out of this whole connected family would leave things feeling redundant. Rape was/is used so irresponsibly on daytime, I really hated it when Stephanie was raped and just tuned out.

But I think it would be really interesting to see Abby and Stephanie as close cousins and see what this did to them. I remember when Chelsea was on Abby was kinda torn between Stephanie and her, but I still felt that they were on good terms generally. I don't remember everything, my brain probably feels like it's better to devote its memory space to things other than DAYS.
Yeah. We observed Abby and Jack's relationship change. During his time in Afghanistan, Abby was angry with him for taking off and for staying out of touch. Of course, it was believed at that time that this was a deliberate choice on Jack's part, and akin to some of his history of leaving for reasons of his own.

I'm not disrespecting Jack when I say that. I'm looking at it from what would be Jennifer and Abby's POV. But how much more powerful would it have been if we the audience had had a chance to witness that Deveraux family pow-wow about what Jack did to Kayla all those years ago? Abby would have been upset, and her reasons for whatever attitude she showed Jack would be understandable. We also would have been witness to Jack's thoughts and reactions all those years after what was a defining moment in his life. If Steve and Kayla and Stephanie were also privy to the details, it would have been a pivotal storyline for everyone.

I'm not really disappointed in what's going on so far.

This set of scenes is the first time since she's returned where we've really gotten to witness Kayla being truly upset about something that happens in her own life. Usually she just listens to everyone else. She's the supportive friend who offers help and advice, but never really gets any concern from THEM.

I've welcomed this chance to see what she feels and thinks as she looks back on this incident, and on how she reacts to having been the one to spill the beans. I want how Adrienne's doing in this situation after JJ leaves too. It may be JJ's story...and I am interested in what happens to him...but it should also be their story, and not just as those concerned about JJ. I want to see what they think NOW as they look back. The whole ball of wax. The bad feelings, and the better ones...because they did get to the point where there were better ones. Just because memories come back and slap you in the face doesn't mean every good moment achieved is gone. It's gotta be a mixture of jumbled up feelings, I bet.

Honestly, this whole thing brings up a lot of ghosts for all of them.
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mirabella
Oct 5 2013, 11:06 AM
camera shy
Oct 5 2013, 09:33 AM
jb1183
Oct 5 2013, 12:26 AM
:rolleyes: at Will telling EJ that maybe someday Stefano will pay for all the hurt he's caused people. No one's crimes and past sins have been glossed over more than EJ's, who has never payed for shit for any of the physical and emotional torment he put Sami and her family through. But I guess we're just supposed to forget all that now while she falls at his feet in adoration over his great "sacrifice." :rolleyes:
And I'm still not seeing 'the great sacrifice'. He goes off with Sami whenever he likes, seems to have all the time in the world to do whatever he wants......where's 'the great sacrifice'?
I don't see the great sacrifice either, not yet any way. He gave back to Stefano everything that he stole from him anyway.

It seems to me that Sami is the one making the big sacrifice for her innocent children. They are the ones who now have to live in the house of the devil because of that deal. Poor Johnny, Allie and Sydney. Now that Lucas knows what is going on, I don't understand why he would let Allie live there. He needs to save the one child he can while he can.
Lets hope after the shooting we see Lucas coming to get Allie and Sami having the good common sense to have Allie's bag pack, waiting for him.
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LastLicks
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Kriss4
Oct 5 2013, 01:02 PM
I feel a little robbed that we didn't get to see Stephanie and Abby find out, and how that might've impacted their cousinly relationship and the dynamic within the bigger family uni: Kayla, Steve, Jack, jennifer. I'm glad we're seeing it now with JJ, but so much more drama was possible, and its unfortunate that it was never pursued.

I'm glad they're including Adrienne's reactions too. I'm waiting for some scenes where Jennifer, Kayla, and Adrienne come together to discuss this. It's such a complicated situation...so deeply painful and difficult a topic for each of them, but who better to understand all those feelings than each other?
It definitely should have been told years ago with everyone involved. However, I'm still enjoying it now for what it is.
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Kriss4


Oh, me too. Mostly cuz I saw that Kayla was shown to be upset, and not JUST about JJ, but because those feelings came out of nowhere and hit her right between the eyes! And Adrienne's clearly upset too. I don't think it's JUST because JJ brought up what Jack did to Kayla...I think it's making her remember some very tough moments in her own life.

It all so hard for everyone.
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SadieEsperanto


trojangal
Oct 5 2013, 04:55 PM
When I met Blake at the fan event in Chicago
8/24 I asked him if he was still on the show & he said
Yes. That was the day after the news about Chandler
Being let go was released.
So if Blake was truthful & not just saying that because of a storyline
Surprise he will be on at least through Thanksgiving
Blake taped this past week, so he'll be on through at least January.
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kay
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Kay

trojangal
Oct 5 2013, 04:55 PM
DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:25 PM
I watched Thursday and Friday on a binge so I might be mixing up days here. I also skipped like a week before because this show is boring.

I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.

I'd also love it if Jennifer doesn't know about Bill raping Laura but finds out, for probably the same reasons as LastLicks. I always thought it could be a vehicle for redefining Jennifer, drawing together scattered threads into a cohesive statement. Now that she's already had a talk about Jack raping Kayla with Abby it could play differently than how I'd always seen it though.

I "liked" how JJ tricked Adrienne into thinking he already knows everything, in that it was clever and got a dramatic moment for Judi to play. I am anticipating the Kayla and Adrienne scene that's supposed to be coming up, but with caution as I don't think it'll be what I want.

I am ... intrigued, for lack of anything better to say, about Nick. Because I'm crap about keeping up with gossip I don't know if Blake Berris is staying or going, but I don't really care about Nick being a good guy or a bad guy as much as him being a viable character. There are certain lines that once you cross them, staying viable becomes harder, and I just like BB too much to want him off. I can say that he's successfully creeping me out, so kudos to Blake.

I am still watching and waiting to see how Daniel figures in to the whole "making XYZ look good/bad" thing, but I am more convinced that Kayla will be a bytstander, unfortunately. Could be wrong. But I think this is about JJ more than anyone.

Theresa being "not there" for her job is, well, obvious. She never made herself out to be a serious career woman, she's obviously only doing it because she has to and she's making trouble along the way because that's, well, who she is, a troubled (overgrown) teen. Anne OTOH ... as much as I may like the actress, her motivations are still kinda dumb. Jen Lilley may not be a convincing youngster but Anne is clearly much older than her, it looks like she's getting into Scooby Doo hijinks because ...she has nothing better to do? Like, I've had tons of coworkers and bosses who skate by on doing jackshit for work, for abusing rules, etc, I don't devote my life to Revenge. Jennifer did nothing personal to start something with Anne; as much as I may think Jennifer's character needs some rehab, it doesn't necessarily make Anne ... look good ... Theresa OTOH doesn't need to look good because we're supposed to see her as a fuck-up. Anne, I don't know that we are.
When I met Blake at the fan event in Chicago
8/24 I asked him if he was still on the show & he said
Yes. That was the day after the news about Chandler
Being let go was released.
So if Blake was truthful & not just saying that because of a storyline
Surprise he will be on at least through Thanksgiving
Blake tweeted last week (first week of October) that he was in Salem so he is still filming (I think they were taping AG's christening scenes).
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Jason47
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kay
Oct 5 2013, 08:29 PM
Blake tweeted last week (first week of October) that he was in Salem so he is still filming (I think they were taping AG's christening scenes).
Yes, Blake is still with the show, so he'll be appearing through at least February.
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LastLicks
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Quote:
 
I'm just mystified that all three women were wringing their hands and worrying about JJ finding out "the wrong way" and not actively taking steps to ensure he learned "the right way" or rather, "the least damaging way"--if such a thing even exists. This whole "conspiracy of silence" thing is going to blow up in their faces, big time.

I wish I knew when J&J had told Abigail about the rape. Personally, I think telling her after she tried to break up Austin and Carrie's marriage would have been a perfect time, dramatically speaking. I could imagine Jack bringing it up because he didn't want to see his daughter making the same mistakes he did, resorting to dirty tricks or physical force to land/hang on to someone who loves someone else. And Abigail's own guilt and shame might have made her more receptive to his message. It's unlikely to happen with this regime, but if MA ever comes back, couldn't the show film J&J telling Abigail as a flashback?


Wasn't Jennifer's going over to the park supposed to show us the opposite? She isn't planning on keeping silent and set out to tell him the right way, and while she probably should have done so the moment Abigail brought it up, I'm guessing she held off not realizing he was determined to find out the truth. I don't love the idea of her sitting around waiting for him (because I feel like she'd sleep in park with him if she had to), but I think she's trying to handle this well for a change.

I absolutely agree that one of the many perfect times to tell Abigail would have been after she tried to break up Carrie and Austin, and I'm sorry we never got to see it. I loved his response to her saying everybody would know what she did, and he firmly said, "Yes they will, and you're going to have deal with it." He didn't cut her any slack because he learned that same lesson, it's a shame we didn't get to see them talk about it more.

Edited by LastLicks, Oct 5 2013, 10:32 PM.
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LastLicks
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Kriss4
Oct 5 2013, 05:40 PM
Oh, me too. Mostly cuz I saw that Kayla was shown to be upset, and not JUST about JJ, but because those feelings came out of nowhere and hit her right between the eyes! And Adrienne's clearly upset too. I don't think it's JUST because JJ brought up what Jack did to Kayla...I think it's making her remember some very tough moments in her own life.

It all so hard for everyone.
Definitely. I'm loving that we get to see that it still matters to Kayla, whether or not she realized it . . . and I hope we get at least one meaningful scene where she can explain her feelings more clearly to the newer audience. I have a feeling she'll get some word in with JJ, but I'm hoping to at least see a sit-down with her mother (which I sadly doubt will happen).
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