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Friday, October 4th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 4 2013, 12:22 AM (11,561 Views)
Rosebud
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Keith
Oct 4 2013, 01:51 PM
I really wish the anti-Stefano feeling could get consistency for each character. I also laughed when Sami said no one hates Stefano more than she does. Girl, talk to me when he makes you believe he killed your husband, kidnaps your kids forcing you to shoot him, sends a brainwashed total stranger to replace your husband, keeps you hidden on an island for almost four years, forcibly makes you a surrogate to kids that are also not his, reveals your real husband is alive, kidnaps you and your replacement husband and coerces you into sleeping with him (Stefano) to save the now love of your life, forces you to reveal your affair with your husband's replacement at I believe the baptism of the daughter yuou and husband replacement conceived through said affair, stalks you relentlessly for ten years after you divorce the husband you once thought was dead, seduces you into being possessed by the devil, uses guilt from the devil attacking him and feigns amnesia to get you to take care of him, helps drive his 'son' to frame your true love for murder, kidnaps you and keeps you in a cage and places your true love's neck under a guillotine, helps his adoptive daughter keep you and your true love apart by hiring an innocent cuckoo to help fake his daughter's pregnancy, putting aside his adoptive daughter's own crimes against you, using your ex-husband's health as a bargaining chip to get all of his crimes pardoned, using chip technology to make your new husband have an affair with who he thinks is his former lover on a submarine, his role in the JT/Zach baby switch with your husband being a potential father, and then after a nice little breather, coming back and having his son put your husband into a coma, and then after he wakes up, his crazy nephew puts a hit and run hit on your husband who dies and then Stefano takes said husband and reprograms him as his pawn again and all that mess...really Sami? You can compete with THAT?
Wow, thank you for writing all that up! I was thinking the same thing when she said that. Give me a break. It's as though Sami could care less what Stefano did to anyone else, especially her mother. But I would expect nothing less of her. The world does revolve around Sami after all. :rolleyes:
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LastLicks
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DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:25 PM
I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.
It didn't make me feel uncomfortable, but I considered the history between Jennifer and Kayla on the subject. While they never had an in-depth conversation about rape or their respective feelings towards Jack . . . they did seem to have a mutual understanding, even more so after Jennifer was raped by Lawrence. Jennifer never pushed her feelings for Jack or his remorse on Kayla and that made all the difference back then. I feel that same understanding between them today. I cut Jennifer slack for being touchy when it comes to her son, she tried to be sensitive with Kayla's feelings too, and I like that Kayla feels exactly the same way. Maybe that isn't okay, but I do feel it was in character.
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Keith
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Rosebud
Oct 5 2013, 11:02 PM
Keith
Oct 4 2013, 01:51 PM
I really wish the anti-Stefano feeling could get consistency for each character. I also laughed when Sami said no one hates Stefano more than she does. Girl, talk to me when he makes you believe he killed your husband, kidnaps your kids forcing you to shoot him, sends a brainwashed total stranger to replace your husband, keeps you hidden on an island for almost four years, forcibly makes you a surrogate to kids that are also not his, reveals your real husband is alive, kidnaps you and your replacement husband and coerces you into sleeping with him (Stefano) to save the now love of your life, forces you to reveal your affair with your husband's replacement at I believe the baptism of the daughter yuou and husband replacement conceived through said affair, stalks you relentlessly for ten years after you divorce the husband you once thought was dead, seduces you into being possessed by the devil, uses guilt from the devil attacking him and feigns amnesia to get you to take care of him, helps drive his 'son' to frame your true love for murder, kidnaps you and keeps you in a cage and places your true love's neck under a guillotine, helps his adoptive daughter keep you and your true love apart by hiring an innocent cuckoo to help fake his daughter's pregnancy, putting aside his adoptive daughter's own crimes against you, using your ex-husband's health as a bargaining chip to get all of his crimes pardoned, using chip technology to make your new husband have an affair with who he thinks is his former lover on a submarine, his role in the JT/Zach baby switch with your husband being a potential father, and then after a nice little breather, coming back and having his son put your husband into a coma, and then after he wakes up, his crazy nephew puts a hit and run hit on your husband who dies and then Stefano takes said husband and reprograms him as his pawn again and all that mess...really Sami? You can compete with THAT?
Wow, thank you for writing all that up! I was thinking the same thing when she said that. Give me a break. It's as though Sami could care less what Stefano did to anyone else, especially her mother. But I would expect nothing less of her. The world does revolve around Sami after all. :rolleyes:
It was a fun exercise of J/M chronology and history. :)
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Kriss4


LastLicks
Oct 5 2013, 11:03 PM
DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:25 PM
I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.
It didn't make me feel uncomfortable, but I considered the history between Jennifer and Kayla on the subject. While they never had an in-depth conversation about rape or their respective feelings towards Jack . . . they did seem to have a mutual understanding, even more so after Jennifer was raped by Lawrence. Jennifer never pushed her feelings for Jack or his remorse on Kayla and that made all the difference back then. I feel that same understanding between them today. I cut Jennifer slack for being touchy when it comes to her son, she tried to be sensitive with Kayla's feelings too, and I like that Kayla feels exactly the same way. Maybe that isn't okay, but I do feel it was in character.
I thought Jennifer did well, showing she was upset about the slip for JJ's sake, but also conveying that she didn't blame Kayla for it happening. She's been through a rape. If someone was praising Lawrence to the hilt in front of her, I doubt she'd think it was wonderful, and she might've gotten upset too. It's kind of complicated, because Kayla IS JJ and Abby's aunt. She does care about them, and it's a strange situation that not many women find themselves in...your rapist was part of your family. I'm sure she thought she was "over it", but then that memory surfaced, and she reacted.

Heck, I had a VERY hard time believing Jennifer's friendship with Carly wasn't impacted in the least by Carly's decision to marry Jennifer's rapist. When Carly came back and no mention was made of Jennifer's feelings over that, it was disappointing to me. When Kayla would get mad at Carly over the Bo and Carly affair they carried on so openly in front of Hope, in my head, Kayla's reason for feeling so antagonistic toward Carly was that same decision to marry Lawrence, because as longtime viewers know, Lawrence took Steve away from Kayla. Stefano really had nothing to do with it initially. He was only brought into that story in 2007.
Edited by Kriss4, Oct 6 2013, 12:08 AM.
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Kriss4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evxI1ERHAqY



Ha! Check this one out!

Or this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxxhy2zHBoU
Edited by Kriss4, Oct 6 2013, 12:28 AM.
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LastLicks
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Kriss4
Oct 5 2013, 11:50 PM
LastLicks
Oct 5 2013, 11:03 PM
DesignatedShelley
Oct 5 2013, 04:25 PM
I was a bit uncomfortable with Jennifer kinda freaking out about Kayla letting something slip to JJ, though I understood it because she is in mama mode. But if Kayla has this big scene where she gets to ream out the town for taking her feelings for granted, I think it'd be pretty deserved. In the grand scheme of things I don't see how her slip-up was anything that awful. I don't think Jennifer thought so either, in and of itself, but she was focused on the incidental consequences. She was immediately thinking only about the effect on JJ but I doubt she's angry at Kayla in any real sense (and I don't think she should be). The truth has to come out sooner or later and even Jennifer and Jack thought so, and if it comes out in less than ideal situations, well it's not ideal, but I don't think it will automatically destroy JJ singlehandedly. Like six said, ultimately the truth is Jack did something JJ will find difficult to stomach and that's also where the drama seems to be.
It didn't make me feel uncomfortable, but I considered the history between Jennifer and Kayla on the subject. While they never had an in-depth conversation about rape or their respective feelings towards Jack . . . they did seem to have a mutual understanding, even more so after Jennifer was raped by Lawrence. Jennifer never pushed her feelings for Jack or his remorse on Kayla and that made all the difference back then. I feel that same understanding between them today. I cut Jennifer slack for being touchy when it comes to her son, she tried to be sensitive with Kayla's feelings too, and I like that Kayla feels exactly the same way. Maybe that isn't okay, but I do feel it was in character.
I thought Jennifer did well, showing she was upset about the slip for JJ's sake, but also conveying that she didn't blame Kayla for it happening. She's been through a rape. If someone was praising Lawrence to the hilt in front of her, I doubt she'd think it was wonderful, and she might've gotten upset too. It's kind of complicated, because Kayla IS JJ and Abby's aunt. She does care about them, and it's a strange situation that not many women find themselves in...your rapist was part of your family. I'm sure she thought she was "over it", but then that memory surfaced, and she reacted.

Heck, I had a VERY hard time believing Jennifer's friendship with Carly wasn't impacted in the least by Carly's decision to marry Jennifer's rapist. When Carly came back and no mention was made of Jennifer's feelings over that, it was disappointing to me. When Kayla would get mad at Carly over the Bo and Carly affair they carried on so openly in front of Hope, in my head, Kayla's reason for feeling so antagonistic toward Carly was that same decision to marry Lawrence, because as longtime viewers know, Lawrence took Steve away from Kayla. Stefano really had nothing to do with it initially. He was only brought into that story in 2007.
I've seen some argue that Jennifer wouldn't have a right to take issue with her best friend being in love with her rapist because she herself married a rapist and kept touch with his victim, but Kayla and Jennifer were, at best, friendly acquaintances through family association in those days. I could see them actually being friends now because they have far more in common being older, but even that has its limits . . . because of Jack. Personally, Jennifer and Carly never worked for me as friends for many reasons (but I did think MR/CC had nice BFF chemistry).

More on the couch conversation between Jennifer and Kayla: I feel Kayla's concern over her slip is out of protectiveness for the entire family (which is so like her), including all the kids and also maybe related to her sometimes unusual protectiveness of Jack in the past. We saw how she never let her being raped keep the Johnsons from getting their happy ending. Kayla always cared about the feelings of those around her more than her own (OT: I know there's debate over this in regards to Shane and Kim, but I didn't really watch enough of that story to comment), even her worst enemy; she even showed concern for Harper Deveraux when Jack came crying to her about Harper being beaten in prison, and the man tried to murder her . . . three times! Jack, Steve and Kayla were all so connected in their three years together, good, bad and ugly. While Jack was not important to Kayla in the way she was important to him, she would never leave him to figuratively rot in hell, either. Especially after Steve's death, because he had loved his baby brother so intensely, Kayla almost inherited his concern over Billy Jack's well-being. She could have closed the door on rebuilding their relationship and probably should have then, but she allowed for him to be a part of Stephanie's life. Even when he died this last time, Kayla seemed genuinely upset over it.

Now I'm not saying that was the right approach in the writing; I certainly understand that her voice was ignored to benefit Jack. However, that was the story as told and I do admire her ability to care enough about someone who didn't deserve to be cared about by her, especially because Jack really did come to hate himself over what he had done, and it just made for interesting soap opera.

Kayla did make a small mention to Jennifer about still not being over it, so I am very interested in knowing how she feels now. The writers can't go there and simply pretend they didn't, we need to know.
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Kayla: "Did it ever occur to you that some things are just none of you business?"

Anjelica: "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"

That always cracked me up, I loved Jane Elliot's Anjelica so much!
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Kriss4


I buy Jen and Kayla as friends because Missy and Mary Beth have a nice friendly chemistry. It works. But back then, Jennifer was in the "younger stories" for so long, and didn't move into the adult stories until after Steve and Kayla were already married and Jennifer went to work as an intern at the Spectator. Jennifer was too young to be a real friend to Kayla at first...and later, they were always friendly...and how much did I respect Jennifer's noninterference in Jack and Kayla's struggles even after it was clear she'd fallen in love with him?

But now...I really like this friendship that's developing...and I definitely think there are warm feelings there. But the rape would be the one thing they might not really discuss. Although if they DO, I'll be so there for that.

Edited by Kriss4, Oct 6 2013, 12:58 AM.
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Kriss4


LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 12:56 AM
Kayla: "Did it ever occur to you that some things are just none of you business?"

Anjelica: "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"

That always cracked me up, I loved Jane Elliot's Anjelica so much!
Me too! Jane Elliot's Angelica could annoy the hell out of me, but she was such a mix of loving and vulnerable and plain old pain in the...Well, YOU know.

She can deliver! I love those scenes. They show each character's lack of perfection beautifully. Jack's feeling mean, and Kayla's very angry...and she can't deny some of the uglier things Jack is saying, but it's not really all the truth, either.

So worth watching...
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LastLicks
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 12:57 AM
I buy Jen and Kayla as friends because Missy and Mary Beth have a nice friendly chemistry. It works. But back then, Jennifer was in the "younger stories" for so long, and didn't move into the adult stories until after Steve and Kayla were already married and Jennifer went to work as an intern at the Spectator. Jennifer was too young to be a real friend to Kayla at first...and later, they were always friendly...and how much did I respect Jennifer's noninterference in Jack and Kayla's struggles even after it was clear she'd fallen in love with him?

But now...I really like this friendship that's developing...and I definitely think there are warm feelings there. But the rape would be the one thing they might not really discuss. Although if they DO, I'll be so there for that.

Very true, Missy and Mary Beth are great in scenes together and I also buy them as good friends. I still think there are limits, as proven in this episode . . . but would also welcome for that to change.
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LastLicks
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Kriss4
Oct 6 2013, 01:01 AM
LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 12:56 AM
Kayla: "Did it ever occur to you that some things are just none of you business?"

Anjelica: "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"

That always cracked me up, I loved Jane Elliot's Anjelica so much!
Me too! Jane Elliot's Angelica could annoy the hell out of me, but she was such a mix of loving and vulnerable and plain old pain in the...Well, YOU know.

She can deliver! I love those scenes. They show each character's lack of perfection beautifully. Jack's feeling mean, and Kayla's very angry...and she can't deny some of the uglier things Jack is saying, but it's not really all the truth, either.

So worth watching...
Yeah, Jack and Anjelica were pretty brutal to Kayla for a while there. Kayla would have probably never publicly spoke out about the rape had he not freaked out like he did, using bullying tactics to keep her quiet; his sidekick, Anjelica, with her nasty jabs only added to that. She was wickedly awesome, though. I only wish Kayla would tell her to shut the F*ck up at least once. Steve gave her as good as she got!
Edited by LastLicks, Oct 6 2013, 01:15 AM.
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granolagirl
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LastLicks
Oct 6 2013, 12:42 AM
While Jack was not important to Kayla in the way she was important to him, she would never leave him to figuratively rot in hell, either. Especially after Steve's death, because he had loved his baby brother so intensely, Kayla almost inherited his concern over Billy Jack's well-being. She could have closed the door on rebuilding their relationship and probably should have then, but she allowed for him to be a part of Stephanie's life. Even when he died this last time, Kayla seemed genuinely upset over it.

Now I'm not saying that was the right approach in the writing; I certainly understand that her voice was ignored to benefit Jack. However, that was the story as told and I do admire her ability to care enough about someone who didn't deserve to be cared about by her, especially because Jack really did come to hate himself over what he had done, and it just made for interesting soap opera.
I think it was overdone, but it worked as long as it was something that was freely given by Kayla and not expected by Jack (or anyone else -- the Thanksgiving scene with Jo pushing everyone to hold hands has always pushed the envelope for me). The overtones around this story that her forgiveness might become an obligation in some way is where it doesn't work, for me. But I'm glad they are showing that the events still affects her.

Jennifer and Kayla's friendliness never really bothered me... Maybe because they were friendly before, and Jack and Kayla were already forming a weird kind of alliance during the Marina story when Jack and Jennifer were just getting involved.
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BeeBee
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S loves EJ
Oct 5 2013, 09:56 AM
I think itīs coming that Stefano will want EJ to do things for him, and then we will see how big sacrifice EJ has made.
After all the slimy sh-t EJ has done I look forward seeing what he does for Stefano that is such a big sacrifice.
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BeeBee
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S loves EJ
Oct 5 2013, 10:21 AM
Maybe because there is a lot of people that loves Ejami and has forgiven EJ.
Sami should not be one of them.
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BeeBee
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SadieEsperanto
Oct 5 2013, 06:55 PM
trojangal
Oct 5 2013, 04:55 PM
When I met Blake at the fan event in Chicago
8/24 I asked him if he was still on the show & he said
Yes. That was the day after the news about Chandler
Being let go was released.
So if Blake was truthful & not just saying that because of a storyline
Surprise he will be on at least through Thanksgiving
Blake taped this past week, so he'll be on through at least January.
Great news.I hope this means they are going to pull him back from he edge regarding his Gabi obsession.
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S loves EJ


BeeBee
Oct 6 2013, 02:51 AM
S loves EJ
Oct 5 2013, 09:56 AM
I think itīs coming that Stefano will want EJ to do things for him, and then we will see how big sacrifice EJ has made.
After all the slimy sh-t EJ has done I look forward seeing what he does for Stefano that is such a big sacrifice.

I donīt think EJ will do anything that is worse than he already done, but he has made it clear that he has wanted to move away from the dark side so to him itīs a sacrifice having to go back there.
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six
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It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
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Partnersincrime
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six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all
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S loves EJ


six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.

I donīt think EJ wants the kids to be raised as Dimeras, but I would like them to act like Dimeras when they become teenagers. I donīt think it would make sense if they turn out to be good characters with Ejami as parents, plus I would find them boring if they did.
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S loves EJ


Partnersincrime
Oct 6 2013, 08:51 AM
six
Oct 6 2013, 08:15 AM
It's also a sacrifice for him to have to place Stefano, whom he sees as threat to his family, back in a position of power. And since the majority of Sami's minor children are also EJ's, if Sami's making a sacrifice by letting them live in the mansion, EJ would be making the exact same sacrifice.
I never ej see Stefano as treat ej never really had problem with Stefano around the kids ej problem with Stefano with how he treated him when he thought is not his son everything ej gave to Stefano belonged to Stefano and ej was stupid enough to think Stefano will not take it back none of these he gave to Stefano had than few months.that why ej done does not seem sacrifice at all

If Stefano starts to demand that EJ do things for him it will cause problems for Ejami, when EJ wants to have a happy relationship with Samantha, so EJ might have to sacrifice the woman he loves or at least a happy relationship with her.
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