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Tuesday, November 12th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 12 2013, 01:10 AM (16,536 Views)
Hummm
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Panda Panda
Nov 13 2013, 12:02 AM
I seem to remember Marlena actually pushing John to pursue Kristen even when everyone found out about Tony being Kristen's fiance.

John and Marlena may be soul mates or what-the-hell-ever, but that doesn't mean they never loved other people.

People like Kristen Blake and Rebecca Morrison :glare:
I was thinking back in 86.
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Rosebud
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Keith
Nov 13 2013, 12:59 AM
Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:52 AM
The one truth is that John has only been with other women when he couldn't have Marlena.
Yes and no.

Its not like he said - well, I can't have Marlena. I'll have the runner-up!

Which is exactly how that statement comes off, regardless of intention. His relationships with these other women has value outside of his love for Marlena. They weren't placeholders. Yes, he couldn't have Marlena. But these women were attempts to move on without her, not attempts to replace her, or bide time until they could be together.
I never said any of that. And I stand by my statement. Of course the circumstances with each other woman he was with are unique. You are reading way too much into what I said. He did however, during the affair, when Marlena was urging him to forget about her, tell her that he would have to find another woman to help him get her out if his mind. You can certainly interpret that as him feeling he needed to find someone to replace her. But it's all semantics as far as I'm concerned :)

Oh, and you could say he viewed Kristen as "runner up" after Aremid. He even admitted as much to Abe.
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Kenny
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Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:46 AM
Kenny
Nov 12 2013, 10:32 PM
Rosebud
Nov 12 2013, 09:52 PM
I don't think John and Marlena loving each other was any excuse or justification for what she did back then. What kind of woman wants a man who she knows loves another woman? If she had an ounce of dignity she would have dumped John and moved on.
Kristen had deluded herself into thinking John really loved her (which he did, just not as much as he loved Marlena) and if she could just get Marlena out of the picture everything would be fine. For Kristen, it wasn't an issue of John not loving her, it was an issue of Marlena constantly sniffing around and trying to take what didn't belong to her.

Marlena acted like Kristen committed the ultimate sin by hiding the letter John wrote confessing his love to her, but really, what woman who's pregnant and engaged to be married is going to pass along love letters between her fiance and his ex? Marlena had no claim on John at that point, and it wasn't like Kristen was just some random fling. Kristen had every right to protect what was (at that point) rightfully hers. It wasn't until Marlena started gloating and threatening to run to John and take him away from her that Kristen really flew off the handle. That why she helped Stefano kidnap Marlena and hold her captive in Paris. She had to get her out of the picture somehow. Then came the miscarriage, something else she blamed Marlena for because it happened while they were in the tunnels looking for her, and she lost her mother in the same explosion. That's when she fully snapped... understandably so, I think.
I don't want to get into a huge debate about this here, but if you actually go back and watch the story, Kristen first felt threatened and realized john still loved Marlena back when John was almost executed. She manipulated Marlena into keeping her feelings for John to herself when John would try to tell Marlena how he felt. He didn't want to get back together with Kristen but Kristen pushed Marlena, using her guilt about the affair, ect, to push john away and back into Kristen's arms. It was way before Kristen was pregnant. Unlike your take on it, Marlena was never sniffing around and trying to take John away. It was the opposite. Kristen knew John loved Marlena more than her, yet she decided to try to get pregnant anyway. Btw, Marlena found the letter before she found out Kristen was pregnant. All of the things Kristen did, she did to herself. She lost the baby because of her own reckless behavior... John didn't want her to come to Paris because he knew it would be dangerous, but Kristen was too paranoid to not go and showed up there, and went chasing around in the tunnels because she chose to. So, again I go back to...what kind of woman wants a man who loves another woman MORE than you?
You aren't wrong. Even in the beginning Kristen wasn't innocent. And yes, she should've had enough self respect to let John go and find someone else whose affection she didn't have to share with other women, but just because she chose to stay and fight doesn't mean she's the only one whose hands were dirty. Why did John never have to take responsibility for letting Kristen believe he loved her and wanted to be with her when behind her back he was having conversations with Abe about how much he wished he could be with Marlena instead? What about all the fantasizing he did about Marlena when he was in bed with Kristen telling her how much he loved her and wanted to build a family with her?

And Marlena -- why did she think it was Kristen's duty to just step aside and let the former lovers fall into another affair? I don't know any woman in Kristen's position who would've been like, "Hey Marlena, check out this letter. The man I'm planning to marry says he loves you, isn't that great!?" Yet Marlena acted like Kristen committed the ultimate sin by hiding the letter. Then the threats started: "As soon as your baby is born I'm going to John and I'm telling him I love him and he will leave you so fast your head will spin." - "Your time with him will be short, we both know that." I mean, damn. All that just because Kristen wouldn't step aside and let Marlena have first dibs?
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Keith
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Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 01:24 AM
Keith
Nov 13 2013, 12:59 AM
Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:52 AM
The one truth is that John has only been with other women when he couldn't have Marlena.
Yes and no.

Its not like he said - well, I can't have Marlena. I'll have the runner-up!

Which is exactly how that statement comes off, regardless of intention. His relationships with these other women has value outside of his love for Marlena. They weren't placeholders. Yes, he couldn't have Marlena. But these women were attempts to move on without her, not attempts to replace her, or bide time until they could be together.
I never said any of that. And I stand by my statement. Of course the circumstances with each other woman he was with are unique. You are reading way too much into what I said. He did however, during the affair, when Marlena was urging him to forget about her, tell her that he would have to find another woman to help him get her out if his mind. You can certainly interpret that as him feeling he needed to find someone to replace her. But it's all semantics as far as I'm concerned :)

Oh, and you could say he viewed Kristen as "runner up" after Aremid. He even admitted as much to Abe.
The affair and thus much of the Kristen relationship is so colored by that, I agree.

His three major non-Marlena relationships - Diana, Isabella, Kristen (I don't count Gina, since its a flashback relationship we didn't see) - were all different. Both Diana and Isabella had some Marlena interference (the blonde woman on Stefano's island- Marlena's flowers, etc.) and of course the pier reunion and Real Roman stuff. But each existed in spite of his pain over losing Marlena.

Kristen was completely different. I always stand by the idea that he did love her fully, for a time, but even then much of it was colored by the time he spent around Marlena - Belle going missing, Maison Blanche, the Possession, the early parts of Aremid. And then he did write the damn letter to Marlena on death row and that was a game changer.

Plus, like you said, the affair. Another major game changer. With Isabella dead, John no longer had a strong enough buffer to his feelings for Marlena. Everything after that, including Kristen, was collateral damage to the very statement you referenced.
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lysie
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I think the bigger issue with Kristen and John was Aremid. Marlena was the one who believed in him, and Kristen didn't. No matter what anyone did or said after that, I think that's what officially killed them. They could have overcome it if neither woman stood by him, but since one did and one didn't, Kristen was screwed.
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AngelOB
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Life is awesome

I was excited to see that Eric showed up in the last scene while Kristen was there. I wanted to deck her when she tried to convince Brady that Eric was some kind of sexual predator.
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thepadange


Reese
Nov 13 2013, 12:41 AM
Matt
Nov 12 2013, 11:53 PM
I always liked RoJohn & Diana, myself....
I loved the fact that Genie Francis showed up on Days. And yeah, I did like them.
If Days were interested in writing a story for Jarlena not only as parents which apparently isn't the case and if the show's budget weren't what it is now they could ask GF to reprise the role. Diana, IMO, could be an interesting third part in the Jarlena game. Kristen, on the contrary, never had that chance and I'm happy they created Bristen instead of letting her desperately run after John once again. ED and EM have just so much more chemistry than she and DHim had.
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S loves EJ


An other good episode, I love the ending I didn´t think there would be a Eric/Kristen confrontation I can´t wait to wednesday´s episode. I got the feeling that all episode will be good this week I can´t remember last time that happend.
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thepadange


Marlena and Victor wanted to save Brady. It didn't look like Brady wanted or needed to be saved. It doesn't look Brady is saved or that he appreciates "his saving". I'm really curious about his POV and feelings he has now.
It's not a popular opinion and I'm not saying I liked how they were writing for him but Kristen/Bristen somehow made me care about that character.
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S loves EJ


Brady isn´t happy about being saved now, but I Think he will understand in time that Marlena did what she did because she cares about him.
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PatNS
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Please note: This report is not to be copied and pasted to any other sites. Please link only. Link to summary archive:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/358635/

Director: Grant A. Johnson
Scriptwriter: David Cherrill


Segment 1: Repeat of Marlena letting herself into the DiMera mansion.

Repeat of the fight between Brady and Eric with Eric choking Brady at the end.

T and Sonny smile down at a sleeping Ari. T is proud that he got her to sleep. JJ comes in. They all say hi. JJ asks how they are. Sonny - Good but kind of busy. He asks T to mind the store while he goes to get some stuff from the back. JJ didn't know T worked here. T - Actually I just started today but of course I was hired for my expertise; there's not a drink I can't handle. JJ orders a Mocha Latte. T asks for 5 mins as he has a takeout order to prepare first. Watch your cousin for me. JJ talks to Arianna. Where is your mom?

Nick watches through the pub window as Gabi talks to the woman from the modelling agency. Come on Gabi, make it happen for us. Gabi didn't realise she would be travelling to New York. Casey - I didn't make it clear. Actually you won't just be travelling to New York, you'll be moving to New York.

Dan asks Nicole if she's alright. Nicole - I'm just thinking about Brady and Kristen; they're probably married already. Dan - Probably. Nicole - Eric blessed them, smiling away, sent them off on their perfect honeymoon. Why do they get to be happy?

Marlena - What you did today ... honest to God I could kill you. Kristen - That's so funny; you took the words right out of my mouth. She points the gun at Marlena.

Brady breaks free but not for long. Eric gets him in a headlock and continues choking him. Eric finally lets him go. Brady struggles to catch his breath. Tough Brady hits Eric from behind. We're not done Padre. He starts choking Eric.

Kristen - Marlena, is that a little bit of fear I see in your rabid eyes. You should be afraid! You've caused enough trouble for one lifetime and I think after all the lives you destroyed today I think today would be a really good day for you to say goodbye.


Segment 2: Marlena backs up as Kristen releases the safety. She waves the gun and then puts it down. So do it. Pick it up. Shoot me.

Gabi - New York is ... Casey - Big and you're right but we're actually thinking much bigger than New York. There's no such thing as just an American model anymore. I'm talking global. Gabi - Like Europe? Casey - Asia, Latin America. We represent some of the biggest names in the business. Trust me, we know how to make this work. Gabi - I'm sure you do. Casey - If you sign with us Gabriella is not just going to be a model, she's going to be a brand world-wide. You speak fluent Spanish, right? That market is blowing up. You could be the face of whatever; electronics, fashion, beauty with every woman wanting to look like you. Gabi - That sounds amazing. Casey - It is but it's also a lot of work. That's why when you get to New York we're going to hook up with the best acting coaches, hair stylists, personal trainers, the works. I want you to have your lawyer explain everything to you so you understand. I already know what's going to set you apart from the rest; your story. It has global appeal. Now you have to figure out if what we're offering appeals to you. Does it?

T sits down with JJ. How are you doing? Are you holding yourself together after that whole town square thing; the smashed windows. JJ - I could have made some better decisions that day. TT - Yeah, no kidding. But hey, you're lucky. You've got your family and your family is the one who catches you when you fall. JJ recalls his encounter with Daniel in Dan's office. JJ - I am lucky. I definitely owe a lot of people.

Dan asks Nicole if she trusts him as a doctor. Of course she does. Dan - Good because I have a prescription for you that's going to make everything alright. Nicole - I don't need any drugs ... Dan - Hot chocolate, yeah at a café, you, me and Parker. Don't tell me you don't want hot chocolate. Nicole - I do. I just still think that I should ... Parker comes running into the living room and tells Dan he's ready. Nicole - I hear you are going to get hot chocolate with your dad! You know I'm going ... how about I go with you. Parker - Yeah!

Roman and Hope run into the church and pull Brady off of Eric. Eric takes deep gulps of air. Roman asks if he's okay. Hope told me about the video. What happened? Brady yells for Eric to tell them. Tell them how you wound up in bed with my fiancée. Tell them how you ruined my life and her life. Tell them how you broke every vow in your freakin' book Eric. Why don't you tell them that? Eric - I will even if it's too late because I finally understand.

Kristen - Just pick it up Marlena. That's all you've got to do; just pick up the gun and shoot me. She yells - Just pick up the gun and blow my brains out Marlena. Isn't that all you've ever wanted to do. Now's your chance. Just shoot me. Put me out my misery, would you. She puts her hand on the gun, Marlena gasps and covers Kristen's hand with hers. She grabs the gun and removes the shell casing. She places the empty gun and casing in the desk drawer in the living room. There. Leave it there. Kristen - Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. With everything I lost today what the hell do I have to live for anyway. Marlena - Wow, I didn't see that coming. You're just full of surprises, aren't you? Kristen - You know what, I don't think you could ever surprise me again. I bet you're already trying to figure out your next plan on how to make sure that I could never be happy even though you're the real loser because you're willing to destroy the lives of all the people you love just to destroy the life of the one you hate. Believe it or not I hate you more than you could ever hate me. Marlena - Really! Kristen - Oh really! But guess what, I was willing to walk away. I was willing to let you go; let go of revenge. You wouldn't let me. You couldn't let me let go of you. Marlena - Do you mean that this revolting, reprehensible episode; everything you've done is about me!


Segment 3: Sonny has joined T and JJ. I was talking to Will and he said to tell you that coming home was the right move. I'm guessing your mom is happy about that. JJ - Yeah. Arianna sure is beautiful. TT - Don't get him started. Sonny - She is the best. She is so sweet and funny and she's sleeping through the night now which is fantastic. JJ - It's kind of cool that you think of her as yours. Sonny - Honestly I can't remember what it was like before I helped Gabi bring Ari into this world. I can't imagine life without her.

Gabi - This sounds amazing and it's a great opportunity Miss McGraw but I have a baby and I just can't ... Casey - Have your lawyer go over the part that talks about childcare. And as far as living arrangements go, Sparkle Agency has some beautiful apartments in Manhattan that are going to be perfect for you and Arianna. Gabi - You know my baby's name? Casey - Honey, pretty soon the whole world can know about Arianna Grace; her story, her sweet smile, how your world revolves around her. Right now we're planning your first photo shoot in Manhattan. Central Parks meets Gabriella and Arianna Grace. I have to be at the airport in less than 30 mins. This was really great. If you have any questions, call me day or night. Don't waste a lot of time. Talk to your lawyer, talk to your loved ones; this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for you, for us. Don't let it slip away. She leaves. Nick watches through the window and smiles.

Brady - Come on Father, let's hear your confession. Eric - Brady, last June at the Capitol I was poisoned. I didn't just suddenly become ill. A masking agent was used; Daniel said it was undetectable. Kristen used a highly sophiscated poison. Brady - You realise Kristen might have a different side to the story. Hope - Let's just hear him out. Eric - After I recovered I started having dreams, sexual dreams that were tormenting me almost every night and that's when I underwent hypnosis. And it's only then that these dreams, these memories made me realise that I was in bed ... in bed with a blonde woman. Brady - This just keeps getting better. You're making this up. Roman - Hey! Brady - No. If that's true how come he didn't say anything. He didn't say anything to me. He didn't go confess to another priest that he was with Kristen. You didn't say a damn word to anybody! Eric snaps - I didn't know that it was Kristen!

Kristen - Of course it's about you and me. It's always been about you and me. Marlena - You seduced my son ... Kristen - Go back ... go back. When you and I first met it was about John. Remember him? I loved him, you wanted him for yourself so you just cut me out of his life like the good butcher you are. And then all those years later when I loved Brady but you couldn't let me have him either, could you? So you just tried to slice me out of his life too, didn't you? Only guess what! I wasn't going to let you get away with it. Marlena - You ... you and Eric was meant to hurt me! Kristen - All I wanted was to see your face when you watched your son the priest in the throes of passion, breaking his vow of chastity with the one woman you hated more than anybody. And then when you were there on the floor broken and destroyed I was going to run out of the room laughing my happy head off. That's all I wanted. But then Brady told me that he loved me and he wanted to try again and so I said I don't need Marlena. I don't need her. I don't need revenge. I don't want it. Marlena - Then why did you do it! Kristen - I didn't! You did it you stupid idiot! I wanted to forget that it ever happened but you couldn't let me, could you? You couldn't miss the chance to cut Kristen open one more time and watch her bleed! But this time you screwed up. You took my secret and you showed the world that your son the priest is nothing but an amoral, sick, sexual predator who would stoop so low as to have kinky sex with his brother's fiancée. You did it! You did it! So you take responsibility and live with it! Marlena shakes her head no.


Segment 4: Nick goes into the pub. How did it go? Did you meet with that agent. Gabi nods yes. Nick - What did she say? Gabi - They want to sign me and if I say yes, my whole life is going to change.

JJ - Will must miss her a lot. Sonny - He really does. He texts me a lot. Sonny takes Ari to go and feed her. Rory has entered the club. JJ goes to him. What are you doing here? Rory - We just scored some primo weed. You gotta try it! So you want to get out of here.

Dan, Nicole and Parker are at the outdoor café in the square. Dan teases Nicole about using marshmallows instead of whipped cream. Dan comments that it's good to see her smile. Dan says hi to a nurse. She replies but turns away. Nicole - Wow, your rep really has taken a hit; usually the nurses beam when they see you. Dan - Not a problem. Nicole - Covering for JJ makes you seem like a sleaze. Now you're tom-catting around with me, that can't help. Dan - I can't worry about what other people think about me. Nicole - But still, being accused of jumping into bed with Theresa knowing that Jennifer feels betrayed and loving her the way that you do ... Dan - Let's not talk about it okay. We've both been accused of things that aren't true; it's not the end of the world. We can't think about it. In fact, don't even think about Eric. Nicole - I'm trying not to. I've given up hope that he'll actually believe me. It's like he lives in some kind of bubble. Dan - Then it's his loss because you were a good friend to him and you're a good friend to me.

Marlena - I know my son. He is good ... Kristen mocks - He's good alright! Marlena - He's a dedicated priest and he's a holy man who truly believes and his only flaw is he believes that even a snake like you deserves a chance at redemption. Kristen - I know he'd like to get his horny, consecrated hands all over me ... Marlena - OMG! And you want to get revenge on me by taking an innocent man ... Kristen - Did you really see that video? Did you see who was on her back helpless. Did you see who had her pinned down like the very experienced sexual predator that he is. Marlena - I don't believe that. I will never believe that. You see when Eric came back from the Capitol he was so ill from the drug you gave him. Kristen - Oh please, dream on. Marlena - He was anguishing; he was trying to find out exactly what happened to him so he asked family and friends and the other priests. He even submitted himself to hypnosis. Is that the kind of man that has anything to hide? Kristen - He submitted himself to hypnosis. Marlena - Yes he did. I put him under hypnosis and by the end of the session I knew something horrible had happened to him. I just didn't know what it was. Now he's going to know. I will make sure he knows what happened. I will make sure that everybody in this town knows what you did.

Eric - I finally realised that the desk clerk took a bribe from that mystery woman and put her in the room right next to mine. She was the one who poisoned me and climbed into bed with me ... Roman - And then she filmed it. Eric - And Daniel, he found out the name that she registered under. Hope - Who was it? Roman - Eric, it's okay. You're not in this alone anymore. Eric - Dad, I don't know why Kristen would do this to me. It was a terrible coincidence but she used the name Fay Taylor. Hope - Fay is Nicole's mother's name. Roman - And her sister's is Taylor. Brady - So you thought the blonde in your memories ... Eric - Was Nicole. I accused her of terrible things. I called her a liar and she denied it but she was innocent. He's almost crying - I didn't believe her. Brady is shaking his head no.


Segment 5: Nick is looking at the contract. This is incredible. They're going all out for you. Gabi is very excited as she tells him all the things the agent said to her. Nick - This it totally incredible. Gabi - Except I would have to move to New York. Could you not tell anyone. Will and Sonny would ... well. Nick - This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I want you to know that I'm behind you no matter what. Gabi thanks him. She has to go pick up Arianna. Nick - No matter what you decide it's truly amazing and I'm happy for you. Congrats. After she leaves he pumps his fist and smiles - She's gonna do it!

Rory - Dude, I'm telling you this stuff is gold and Bev's parents are out of town so we could get wasted at her place; do whatever we want. JJ - I think I'm good but you go ahead. Rory - They've got a gigantic hot tub JJ. We'd be boozing, flying ... naked! Let's go dude. JJ - I'm good Dude, not today. Rory leaves.

Nicole promises Dan she won't tell anyone what really happened that night. Dan thanks her. No one can know JJ was there when Theresa OD'd. Nicole - I get it, I do but you shouldn't have to cover for that kid just knowing how badly he hurt you. Dan - Okay, so when someone does something wrong I should never help them? Nicole - Yeah, like me. Forget I said anything. I'm just glad we're still friends. Dan - Me too. If it hadn't been for you I might not have that little guy right there. I do care what he thinks. I wonder when he gets older and if hears about this thing with Theresa ... Nicole - He'll think you're some kind of jerk. He's going to know what I know. That you're not the kind of man who turns his back on the people he cares about no matter what it costs. Dan - Thank you. I kind of needed to hear that. He tells Parker it's close to his bedtime. Nicole is going to hang out here for a little while; take a walk or something. Dan and Parker leave.

Eric - I've got to find Nicole. I've got to ask for her forgiveness. Roman - No, you're going to see a doctor. You and Brady went at it good. You're going to get some rest. Eric goes and faces Brady. How's your neck? Brady - It's okay. How's yours? Eric - Fine. Hope - Neither one of you looks fine to me. Eric - I made a lot of mistakes. Brady - Not as many as I did. Roman - Both of you, go easy on yourselves okay. Trust me, we're going to be all over Kristen on this. Hope - I can write up what you told us but it would be better if you made a full statement at the station. Eric - Not now, I need to be alone. No more questions please. Brady puts his arm on Eric's shoulder - Take care. Eric - You too. Roman - Don't you be afraid to call. He hugs him. I love you. Eric - I love you too. Hope - I'll call you tomorrow. Take care. They leave. Eric kneels and prays.

Marlena - What you did to my son left him emotionally violated and that video certainly showed us why. Kristen - A video of a woman being ravaged. Marlena - Oh my gosh, there's not a soul that knows Eric and nobody who knows who you are that would ever believe that. Kristen - I suppose you're going to find some way to charge me with a crime. Marlena - Well there was a crime that happened but I'm not sure we can charge you for it. Kristen - I was the victim! Marlena - I think not. And everyone in this town is going to know exactly what you did! You came back to town claiming to be the new and improved Kristen and almost everybody bought it. And shamefully, stunningly Brady bought it twice. But now everybody that sees you is going to know that you are the same sick, twisted piece of garbage that you always were. Kristen screams for her to get out several times. Marlena starts to leave but stops. You might want to change out of the gown; Brady's never coming back for you, not ever. Kristen throws her glass at the door and then starts beating her hands on the desk. She looks at her engagement ring and realises the stone is gone.


Segment 6: Sonny, Gabi and T are gushing over Ari. Sonny asks how the meeting went. Gabi says fine - it wasn't important. Sonny asks if she talked to Cameron. I thought you might be upset but he's doing such a good thing it's kind of hard to blame him. T - I don't think she talked to Cameron. Gabi - What's he doing? T - Abigail says he's leaving; going with Doctors Without Borders. Sonny - I shouldn't have said anything but you can't be mad at him; it kind of just fell into his lap. Gabi - No, of course not. Sometimes things happen like that and it can change your life forever and you have to just go for it. T and Sonny get back to work. Gabi tells Ari that a lot of people are getting their chance; I think Mommy is going to take hers too.

Marlena meets up with Roman in the square. I got your text. Roman - Finally. I just came from the church. Eric's a mess. Kristen's hurt him more ... you know what, I'll deal with Kristen later. Marlena - I hope we can. Roman - Hope told me that you're the one who showed that ugly video at the wedding. What were you thinking? Roman turns to see Brady standing there. Roman gets paged. Emergency at the station. You two talk now, we'll talk later. He leaves.

Kristen crawls around on her hands and knees until she finds the diamond. She kisses it. Cue f/b of the proposal. Brady loves me. He'll forgive me. She sends him a text. Meet me where you proposed to me. Where you promised to love me for the rest of our lives.

Eric stands in front of the crucifix. What is your plan for me Lord? A life of service that turns into hate and deceit and humiliation ... is that my reward? He yells - Should I thank You for it! What do I have to look forward to next? He cries and then slams his hand down on the altar.


Segment 7: JJ walks into the living room of the Horton house. He picks up a picture off the mantelpiece and that puts it back. He sits down and looks at Dan's call info on his phone.

Dan tells Parker it's bath time. Parker says Jennifer. Dan says Jennifer is not coming over tonight.

Marlena approaches Brady. Brady - You won. Once again Marlena, you won. He walks away.

Hope is at the club paying for a coffee when Nicole comes in. Hope sees her. Excuse me Nicole, I need to talk to you. It's a police matter concerning Eric. I need to get some facts straight. Nicole - OMG, he did call the police. Wait Hope, I swear I didn't do anything to Eric. Hope - I know. It was Kristen.

Kristen arrives at the proposal spot. Brady I'm here. Baby. Brady. Eric steps into the clearing.
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six
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Matt
Nov 12 2013, 11:53 PM
I always liked RoJohn & Diana, myself....
That was his best pairing, imo. And it was the only time I liked GF.
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Rosebud
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Kenny
Nov 13 2013, 01:44 AM
Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:46 AM
Kenny
Nov 12 2013, 10:32 PM
Rosebud
Nov 12 2013, 09:52 PM
I don't think John and Marlena loving each other was any excuse or justification for what she did back then. What kind of woman wants a man who she knows loves another woman? If she had an ounce of dignity she would have dumped John and moved on.
Kristen had deluded herself into thinking John really loved her (which he did, just not as much as he loved Marlena) and if she could just get Marlena out of the picture everything would be fine. For Kristen, it wasn't an issue of John not loving her, it was an issue of Marlena constantly sniffing around and trying to take what didn't belong to her.

Marlena acted like Kristen committed the ultimate sin by hiding the letter John wrote confessing his love to her, but really, what woman who's pregnant and engaged to be married is going to pass along love letters between her fiance and his ex? Marlena had no claim on John at that point, and it wasn't like Kristen was just some random fling. Kristen had every right to protect what was (at that point) rightfully hers. It wasn't until Marlena started gloating and threatening to run to John and take him away from her that Kristen really flew off the handle. That why she helped Stefano kidnap Marlena and hold her captive in Paris. She had to get her out of the picture somehow. Then came the miscarriage, something else she blamed Marlena for because it happened while they were in the tunnels looking for her, and she lost her mother in the same explosion. That's when she fully snapped... understandably so, I think.
I don't want to get into a huge debate about this here, but if you actually go back and watch the story, Kristen first felt threatened and realized john still loved Marlena back when John was almost executed. She manipulated Marlena into keeping her feelings for John to herself when John would try to tell Marlena how he felt. He didn't want to get back together with Kristen but Kristen pushed Marlena, using her guilt about the affair, ect, to push john away and back into Kristen's arms. It was way before Kristen was pregnant. Unlike your take on it, Marlena was never sniffing around and trying to take John away. It was the opposite. Kristen knew John loved Marlena more than her, yet she decided to try to get pregnant anyway. Btw, Marlena found the letter before she found out Kristen was pregnant. All of the things Kristen did, she did to herself. She lost the baby because of her own reckless behavior... John didn't want her to come to Paris because he knew it would be dangerous, but Kristen was too paranoid to not go and showed up there, and went chasing around in the tunnels because she chose to. So, again I go back to...what kind of woman wants a man who loves another woman MORE than you?
You aren't wrong. Even in the beginning Kristen wasn't innocent. And yes, she should've had enough self respect to let John go and find someone else whose affection she didn't have to share with other women, but just because she chose to stay and fight doesn't mean she's the only one whose hands were dirty. Why did John never have to take responsibility for letting Kristen believe he loved her and wanted to be with her when behind her back he was having conversations with Abe about how much he wished he could be with Marlena instead? What about all the fantasizing he did about Marlena when he was in bed with Kristen telling her how much he loved her and wanted to build a family with her?

And Marlena -- why did she think it was Kristen's duty to just step aside and let the former lovers fall into another affair? I don't know any woman in Kristen's position who would've been like, "Hey Marlena, check out this letter. The man I'm planning to marry says he loves you, isn't that great!?" Yet Marlena acted like Kristen committed the ultimate sin by hiding the letter. Then the threats started: "As soon as your baby is born I'm going to John and I'm telling him I love him and he will leave you so fast your head will spin." - "Your time with him will be short, we both know that." I mean, damn. All that just because Kristen wouldn't step aside and let Marlena have first dibs?
Are you kidding me? Marlena never acted the way you portray her. John wasn't committed to Kristen after Aremid. He was free to choose Marlena if she wanted him. However, Kristen began to manipulate both of them to keep them apart. Because she knew John was questioning their relationship because if her lack if trust during the trial. John told her he needed to think things over. So, when you say Marlena expected Kristen to let J&M to get back together to have an affair again... They were both free. Kristen ended that by getting Marlena to tell john she had moved on. Kristen lied to Marlena and played on her guilt. You need to go watch all that post Aremid stuff.

The reason Marlena was upset about the letter was because it proved to her that Kristen had been manipulating her all along. Again go watch this stuff again. Marlena had every right to be angry.

As for John, you get no argument from me about him not coming clean to both Marlena and Kristen about his true feelings. But even that is kind of Kristen's doing. If she had not manipulated Marlena, J&M could have admitted their true feelings and John would have left Kristen. He wasn't commuted to her.

And I will also say that John, besides being written as stupid, he was weak as well. He should have left Kristen anyway, even if Marlena "still just wanted to be friends". He could have survived alone. But of course it's classic Reilly.
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Ophelia
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I just rewatched and I think Brady might have dropped his phone in the church. The last time we see Eric his eyes lock on something and then we see Kristen and Eric show up at the same spot.

Of course that doesn't explain how Eric knows unless they told him during the pre-cana sessions and I vaguely remember something like that but not for sure.
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lysie
Nov 13 2013, 01:50 AM
I think the bigger issue with Kristen and John was Aremid. Marlena was the one who believed in him, and Kristen didn't. No matter what anyone did or said after that, I think that's what officially killed them. They could have overcome it if neither woman stood by him, but since one did and one didn't, Kristen was screwed.
And she KNEW it. That's when she became a manipulative bitch. There's an exact moment when you see it happen on screen. John has been freed from the gas chamber and Kristen is standing there. John asks where Marlena is, and says he has to see her. He walks right past Kristen and the last shot if the scene is of Kristen and she is not happy. :blulaugh:
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Ophelia
Nov 13 2013, 12:15 PM
I just rewatched and I think Brady might have dropped his phone in the church. The last time we see Eric his eyes lock on something and then we see Kristen and Eric show up at the same spot.

Of course that doesn't explain how Eric knows unless they told him during the pre-cana sessions and I vaguely remember something like that but not for sure.
Ahhh, that would explain it. I guess we'll find out today :)
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Rosebud
Nov 12 2013, 09:36 PM
camera shy
Nov 12 2013, 05:17 PM
If I had been standing in front of the person who had raped my child fist would have been flying. I thought Marlena was far too calm in dealing with Kristen.
I think you have to try to remain calm with a unchained rabid tiger in the room.
Marlena might be like moi... when everything's burning and crashing around me, I get very calm. Person lying on the floor dying? No problemo, let's just think of what we've learned. Be reasonable.
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kay
Nov 12 2013, 09:47 PM
JoeBucs32
Nov 12 2013, 01:23 PM
It is completely ridiculous that Marlena knows how to disarm a gun in two seconds but can't play music or a video on a computer?!?!?!
Also she should have recorded Kristen' s confession so Brady could hear the stuff Kristen is saying instead of that crap she told him yesterday.
So that Brady and John could be pissed off, again, for her trying to get evidence to back her up?
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Panda Panda
Nov 13 2013, 12:02 AM
I seem to remember Marlena actually pushing John to pursue Kristen even when everyone found out about Tony being Kristen's fiance.

John and Marlena may be soul mates or what-the-hell-ever, but that doesn't mean they never loved other people.

People like Kristen Blake and Rebecca Morrison :glare:
He never loved Rebecca. Diana, Isabella, Kristen? Yes. People like Rebecca, Olivia, Danielle, Kate, Ava? No. They were convenient for the moment, and John pretty much said so of all of them.

Marlena loved Don and Roman, she did not love Richard. People can be together without loving each other. Attraction is not love. And love does not = true love.
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I didn't love the Marlena/Kristen scenes either. I thought they very well represented Eileen's 2nd tenure on the show though. They were pretty much Kristen spewing her side of the story as the truth with Marlena taking it. This show seems to feel that they don't want to use DH, but they just don't want anyone else to have her.
Edited by The Room Stops, Nov 13 2013, 12:35 PM.
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