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Tuesday, November 12th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 12 2013, 01:10 AM (16,619 Views)
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Keith
Nov 13 2013, 12:59 AM
Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:52 AM
The one truth is that John has only been with other women when he couldn't have Marlena.
Yes and no.

Its not like he said - well, I can't have Marlena. I'll have the runner-up!

Which is exactly how that statement comes off, regardless of intention. His relationships with these other women has value outside of his love for Marlena. They weren't placeholders. Yes, he couldn't have Marlena. But these women were attempts to move on without her, not attempts to replace her, or bide time until they could be together.
IMO, it was like that. That doesn't mean he didn't love them, but had Marlena been alive, he wouldn't have been with them in the first place. It was his attempt to move on from the love of his life, but when she came back, he wanted to be with her. That's just what happened. He only moved on in 1993 after Marlena told him she couldn't destroy her family. She couldn't break Sami, Carrie and Roman's hearts just because she loved him. They had several conversations about it. She said Roman had lost so much, she couldn't allow him to lose her too. And then Sami switched the paternity, which made it a done deal. Marlena had moments of wanting to leave Roman for John, the showed clearly the doubts and the want for a life with John.

John said so many times in 1995, 1996 and 1997. He loved Marlena, we saw it, he talked to Abe, Bo, Hope, anybody but Marlena and Kristen, basically, about it. And then he said outright that he couldn't destroy Marlena's chance to have her children's love. He felt guilty over destroying her family with the affair. So "we take love where we can get it." John's words, maybe one's not the exact word, but that was the gist.

Again, that doesn't mean he didn't love them, but not all love is true love. And the point being that had Kristen not hidden that letter, none of it would have happened. If she believed John loved her as she claimed, why wouldn't he be with her even if she didn't hide the letter and Marlena knew? SHE made the choices, that then had the consequences it did.
Edited by The Room Stops, Nov 13 2013, 12:55 PM.
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Matt
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Classic Soap Fan

Didn't Marlena love that married professor she was involved with before her 1st appearance on the show? I mean, the one that wasn't retro-rewritten to be what's his crazy face played by Wayne Northrop.
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lysie
Nov 13 2013, 01:50 AM
I think the bigger issue with Kristen and John was Aremid. Marlena was the one who believed in him, and Kristen didn't. No matter what anyone did or said after that, I think that's what officially killed them. They could have overcome it if neither woman stood by him, but since one did and one didn't, Kristen was screwed.
John basically wanted to believe that okay, he couldn't have Marlena... but he'd found a respectable, good hearted, loving replacement. And it turned out she was nothing like what he thought. The picture he had of her and who she was were different. He thought she knew him, and she didn't.
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Matt
Nov 13 2013, 12:45 PM
Didn't Marlena love that married professor she was involved with before her 1st appearance on the show? I mean, the one that wasn't retro-rewritten to be what's his crazy face played by Wayne Northrop.
Wasn't it only a brief affair? Was he married? I've read conflicting recaps. Some say he was, some say the scandalous part was just that he was her professor.

I can't believe they wrecked that with the Alex crap. I loved that part of her history. Marlena has never been perfect, and I loved that about her. She's complex as hell if you write her as she is.
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six
Nov 13 2013, 09:56 AM
Matt
Nov 12 2013, 11:53 PM
I always liked RoJohn & Diana, myself....
That was his best pairing, imo. And it was the only time I liked GF.
You don't like her Laura either? THANK YOU. I keep thinking there's something wrong with me. I just don't like Laura. I think Genie looked GREAT when she came back the last time, but Laura bored me. It might be my Luke/Tracy love, but I just find her boring.
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Rosebud
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The Room Stops
Nov 13 2013, 12:35 PM
I didn't love the Marlena/Kristen scenes either. I thought they very well represented Eileen's 2nd tenure on the show though. They were pretty much Kristen spewing her side of the story as the truth with Marlena taking it. This show seems to feel that they don't want to use DH, but they just don't want anyone else to have her.
This whole story has been all about Kristen. We've barely gotten any of Marlena's POV
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lysie
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Matt
Nov 13 2013, 12:45 PM
Didn't Marlena love that married professor she was involved with before her 1st appearance on the show? I mean, the one that wasn't retro-rewritten to be what's his crazy face played by Wayne Northrop.
I don't remember from your summaries, but I do think she loved that creepy Richard guy. Not in the way she loved Don, Roman, and John, but to be fair...he died before she got the chance to love him like that.
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Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:02 PM
Kenny
Nov 13 2013, 01:44 AM
Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:46 AM
Kenny
Nov 12 2013, 10:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I don't want to get into a huge debate about this here, but if you actually go back and watch the story, Kristen first felt threatened and realized john still loved Marlena back when John was almost executed. She manipulated Marlena into keeping her feelings for John to herself when John would try to tell Marlena how he felt. He didn't want to get back together with Kristen but Kristen pushed Marlena, using her guilt about the affair, ect, to push john away and back into Kristen's arms. It was way before Kristen was pregnant. Unlike your take on it, Marlena was never sniffing around and trying to take John away. It was the opposite. Kristen knew John loved Marlena more than her, yet she decided to try to get pregnant anyway. Btw, Marlena found the letter before she found out Kristen was pregnant. All of the things Kristen did, she did to herself. She lost the baby because of her own reckless behavior... John didn't want her to come to Paris because he knew it would be dangerous, but Kristen was too paranoid to not go and showed up there, and went chasing around in the tunnels because she chose to. So, again I go back to...what kind of woman wants a man who loves another woman MORE than you?
You aren't wrong. Even in the beginning Kristen wasn't innocent. And yes, she should've had enough self respect to let John go and find someone else whose affection she didn't have to share with other women, but just because she chose to stay and fight doesn't mean she's the only one whose hands were dirty. Why did John never have to take responsibility for letting Kristen believe he loved her and wanted to be with her when behind her back he was having conversations with Abe about how much he wished he could be with Marlena instead? What about all the fantasizing he did about Marlena when he was in bed with Kristen telling her how much he loved her and wanted to build a family with her?

And Marlena -- why did she think it was Kristen's duty to just step aside and let the former lovers fall into another affair? I don't know any woman in Kristen's position who would've been like, "Hey Marlena, check out this letter. The man I'm planning to marry says he loves you, isn't that great!?" Yet Marlena acted like Kristen committed the ultimate sin by hiding the letter. Then the threats started: "As soon as your baby is born I'm going to John and I'm telling him I love him and he will leave you so fast your head will spin." - "Your time with him will be short, we both know that." I mean, damn. All that just because Kristen wouldn't step aside and let Marlena have first dibs?
Are you kidding me? Marlena never acted the way you portray her. John wasn't committed to Kristen after Aremid. He was free to choose Marlena if she wanted him. However, Kristen began to manipulate both of them to keep them apart. Because she knew John was questioning their relationship because if her lack if trust during the trial. John told her he needed to think things over. So, when you say Marlena expected Kristen to let J&M to get back together to have an affair again... They were both free. Kristen ended that by getting Marlena to tell john she had moved on. Kristen lied to Marlena and played on her guilt. You need to go watch all that post Aremid stuff.

The reason Marlena was upset about the letter was because it proved to her that Kristen had been manipulating her all along. Again go watch this stuff again. Marlena had every right to be angry.

As for John, you get no argument from me about him not coming clean to both Marlena and Kristen about his true feelings. But even that is kind of Kristen's doing. If she had not manipulated Marlena, J&M could have admitted their true feelings and John would have left Kristen. He wasn't commuted to her.

And I will also say that John, besides being written as stupid, he was weak as well. He should have left Kristen anyway, even if Marlena "still just wanted to be friends". He could have survived alone. But of course it's classic Reilly.
And, it's kind of become classic John, too. John, IMO, because of his history of not knowing who his family was, craves to feel love and care. Whether or not he loves them is another discussion and he tries to convince himself he does ;)
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Rosebud
Nov 13 2013, 12:54 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 13 2013, 12:35 PM
I didn't love the Marlena/Kristen scenes either. I thought they very well represented Eileen's 2nd tenure on the show though. They were pretty much Kristen spewing her side of the story as the truth with Marlena taking it. This show seems to feel that they don't want to use DH, but they just don't want anyone else to have her.
This whole story has been all about Kristen. We've barely gotten any of Marlena's POV
Exactly. True true.
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