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DR Day of Days Interview with Drake Hogestyn
Topic Started: Nov 11 2013, 12:38 AM (5,161 Views)
IIttu
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Once Deidre and I started working together it was like no time had ever passed. That's the comforting part about what we do. It just depends on how the writing goes now. We'll keep our fingers crossed...

Fingers Xed indeed. And thank goodness Drake decided to come back instead of heading to IN.. If he hadn't come back, the end of J&M's love story would've been beyond horrible...
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lysie


As more Day of Days interviews come in, please just add them to the threads that already exist. We don't know 10 threads for each actor's interviews. Thanks!
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Will&Sonny


Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
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IIttu
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Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
I and my selective memory believe these scenes (and the rest of Jarlena's 2013 for that matter) never existed on Days. B-)
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Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
He still never says they were feelings of love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
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Will&Sonny


The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 12:53 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
He still never says they were feelings of love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
That's a huge stretch, IMO. We can "fanwank" it into something else because we really hate what happened, and the writers can retcon it into something else when John returns because they have to do something to get themselves out of the hole that they dug themselves into, but the fact remains that it's pretty damn clear exactly what John is talking about in that scene, and it's not feelings of hatred.
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Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 06:52 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 12:53 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
He still never says they were feelings of love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
That's a huge stretch, IMO. We can "fanwank" it into something else because we really hate what happened, and the writers can retcon it into something else when John returns because they have to do something to get themselves out of the hole that they dug themselves into, but the fact remains that it's pretty damn clear exactly what John is talking about in that scene, and it's not feelings of hatred.
But that's perception. You saw it one way, I saw it another. You think it's definite what was said, and I just don't. The only fact is that it does leave it open for them to go a different way than what you saw. Because he never says the word. They could easily have John say that he became consumed in his hatred, and that he hated himself because of it. They could even have him tell Marlena that he never dealt with it because so much happened after. They never dealt with what she did, he never dealt with what she did to him, losing a baby and having been lied to for so long. That's not even a retcon, it's an exploration and explanation of what was said, and of what happened back then.

They've retconned a lot of different crap on this show, at least this wasn't spelled out. It's open, IMO. I just doubt they'll even give it two seconds. I doubt we'll even have more than that one J&M scene. Sorry, but Tomlin does not like J&M, Corday hates them, Whitesell I don't know. Meng likes them, but he's not in charge anymore, so we're probably screwed. They could be bringing him back to destroy him further. That's how I feel. But the option to explore what happened is there. I just don't think they'll use it.
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i<3ddjmalways
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Marlena and Belle-Mother and Daughter

The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 07:59 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 06:52 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 12:53 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
He still never says they were feelings of love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
That's a huge stretch, IMO. We can "fanwank" it into something else because we really hate what happened, and the writers can retcon it into something else when John returns because they have to do something to get themselves out of the hole that they dug themselves into, but the fact remains that it's pretty damn clear exactly what John is talking about in that scene, and it's not feelings of hatred.
But that's perception. You saw it one way, I saw it another. You think it's definite what was said, and I just don't. The only fact is that it does leave it open for them to go a different way than what you saw. Because he never says the word. They could easily have John say that he became consumed in his hatred, and that he hated himself because of it. They could even have him tell Marlena that he never dealt with it because so much happened after. They never dealt with what she did, he never dealt with what she did to him, losing a baby and having been lied to for so long. That's not even a retcon, it's an exploration and explanation of what was said, and of what happened back then.

They've retconned a lot of different crap on this show, at least this wasn't spelled out. It's open, IMO. I just doubt they'll even give it two seconds. I doubt we'll even have more than that one J&M scene. Sorry, but Tomlin does not like J&M, Corday hates them, Whitesell I don't know. Meng likes them, but he's not in charge anymore, so we're probably screwed. They could be bringing him back to destroy him further. That's how I feel. But the option to explore what happened is there. I just don't think they'll use it.
Corday hates J&M? I didn't know that! I knew that he hated supercouples in general, but I had no idea he hated J&M! Now that makes me hate him more, especially since he is allowing this retconned garbage of J&M to have even taken place. :bleep:
I knew Tomlin didn't like them, that much is obvious. But I don't know why either of them hate J&M. They are so easy to write for and D&D own each and every scene they are in. They steal the show! Corday and Tomlin are both so stupid and clueless to not use J&M the way they should be used. That's where the real money is. Not with Dannifer and certainly not with EJami. I'm sorry but not everyone is an EJami fan.
If J&M's reconciliation is not written properly and true to history. I will forever give up on Days. I will never watch again. I will always be a J&M fan; always, but Days can kiss my ass if they screw up J&M forever. I can't accept what we saw last May as the end for J&M, I just can't and I won't! :tears:
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Will&Sonny


The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 07:59 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 06:52 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 12:53 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Just for the record, for those who are interested, this is exactly what John said to Marlena during that discussion outside the Brady Pub (which actually started inside the pub). I don't know about everyone else, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Marlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
He still never says they were feelings of love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
That's a huge stretch, IMO. We can "fanwank" it into something else because we really hate what happened, and the writers can retcon it into something else when John returns because they have to do something to get themselves out of the hole that they dug themselves into, but the fact remains that it's pretty damn clear exactly what John is talking about in that scene, and it's not feelings of hatred.
But that's perception. You saw it one way, I saw it another. You think it's definite what was said, and I just don't. The only fact is that it does leave it open for them to go a different way than what you saw. Because he never says the word. They could easily have John say that he became consumed in his hatred, and that he hated himself because of it. They could even have him tell Marlena that he never dealt with it because so much happened after. They never dealt with what she did, he never dealt with what she did to him, losing a baby and having been lied to for so long. That's not even a retcon, it's an exploration and explanation of what was said, and of what happened back then.

They've retconned a lot of different crap on this show, at least this wasn't spelled out. It's open, IMO. I just doubt they'll even give it two seconds. I doubt we'll even have more than that one J&M scene. Sorry, but Tomlin does not like J&M, Corday hates them, Whitesell I don't know. Meng likes them, but he's not in charge anymore, so we're probably screwed. They could be bringing him back to destroy him further. That's how I feel. But the option to explore what happened is there. I just don't think they'll use it.
John wouldn't have looked incredibly regretful in that scene, with a single tear rolling down his cheek, if he had been talking about feelings of hatred.

But you're right -- you're certainly entitled to interpret those scenes however you wish to interpret them. I did say that I was just stating my opinion. I remain convinced that John was saying exactly what it seems like he was saying in that scene -- that he still has feelings for Kristen. I think it's stupid, but it is what it is.
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GatesRhiannon
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Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 10:26 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 07:59 PM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 06:52 PM
The Room Stops
Nov 14 2013, 12:53 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepMarlena has just told John that she has changed her mind and wants to know what really happened between him and Kristen.

John: All right -- I'm gonna tell you everything. I went to Kristen intending to seduce her. I wanted Brady to find us together. I thought it might be the only way he would accept the truth about her, but apparently Kristen had the same idea -- she wanted Brady to find her with his father.

Marlena: Which would destroy us -- you and me -- forever. And Brady?

John: Collateral damage.

Marlena: You were willing to risk us?

John: To prove to my son that horrible woman was telling him that she loved him just to get back at me -- and by extension, you. So if seducing her was the only way I could get through to him....

Marlena: We were your collateral damage.

John: He's my son.

Marlena: I'm your wife. So, that was the plan all along?

John: Why else would I be pushing you away? I love you, Doc -- I never stopped loving you. You gotta know that.

Marlena: I do. It's never simple, is it? It's never simple when Kristen is involved. John...I know you so well. In some ways, I know you better than I know myself. So when this whole mess began, I was so anxious. It felt like the ground -- the ground was moving underneath me, and yet I knew --

John: You knew what?

Marlena: I knew that you would never betray the love between us. But I also knew that your heart and your soul would never let you go there, would never even let you consider the possibility of sleeping with another woman -- especially Kristen DiMera -- unless there was some dark, deep place in you...that you still cared for her. That you had never quite gotten over her.

John: I'm sorry.

Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.love. Hate is as strong of an emotion, and one that one would also want to bury with time.
That's a huge stretch, IMO. We can "fanwank" it into something else because we really hate what happened, and the writers can retcon it into something else when John returns because they have to do something to get themselves out of the hole that they dug themselves into, but the fact remains that it's pretty damn clear exactly what John is talking about in that scene, and it's not feelings of hatred.
But that's perception. You saw it one way, I saw it another. You think it's definite what was said, and I just don't. The only fact is that it does leave it open for them to go a different way than what you saw. Because he never says the word. They could easily have John say that he became consumed in his hatred, and that he hated himself because of it. They could even have him tell Marlena that he never dealt with it because so much happened after. They never dealt with what she did, he never dealt with what she did to him, losing a baby and having been lied to for so long. That's not even a retcon, it's an exploration and explanation of what was said, and of what happened back then.

They've retconned a lot of different crap on this show, at least this wasn't spelled out. It's open, IMO. I just doubt they'll even give it two seconds. I doubt we'll even have more than that one J&M scene. Sorry, but Tomlin does not like J&M, Corday hates them, Whitesell I don't know. Meng likes them, but he's not in charge anymore, so we're probably screwed. They could be bringing him back to destroy him further. That's how I feel. But the option to explore what happened is there. I just don't think they'll use it.
John wouldn't have looked incredibly regretful in that scene, with a single tear rolling down his cheek, if he had been talking about feelings of hatred.

But you're right -- you're certainly entitled to interpret those scenes however you wish to interpret them. I did say that I was just stating my opinion. I remain convinced that John was saying exactly what it seems like he was saying in that scene -- that he still has feelings for Kristen. I think it's stupid, but it is what it is.
As a great lady once said, "It is what it is, but it will be what you make of it."
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The Room Stops
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Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 10:26 PM
John wouldn't have looked incredibly regretful in that scene, with a single tear rolling down his cheek, if he had been talking about feelings of hatred.

But you're right -- you're certainly entitled to interpret those scenes however you wish to interpret them. I did say that I was just stating my opinion. I remain convinced that John was saying exactly what it seems like he was saying in that scene -- that he still has feelings for Kristen. I think it's stupid, but it is what it is.
But that's exactly what I'm saying... feelings can be many a thing. It can even be both. It'd be a re-write, but it could be both. All I'm saying is that since he didn't specifically say one or the other, it leaves it open for them to use it. Feelings covers many different states.

I'm sure you are right, and they will make it mean what you saw it as, all I'm saying is that they have an opening there to begin an exploration of what was really going on. They don't have to spin it to change it, as much as they just go deeper into it.
Edited by The Room Stops, Nov 15 2013, 09:10 AM.
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Will&Sonny


The Room Stops
Nov 15 2013, 09:09 AM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 10:26 PM
John wouldn't have looked incredibly regretful in that scene, with a single tear rolling down his cheek, if he had been talking about feelings of hatred.

But you're right -- you're certainly entitled to interpret those scenes however you wish to interpret them. I did say that I was just stating my opinion. I remain convinced that John was saying exactly what it seems like he was saying in that scene -- that he still has feelings for Kristen. I think it's stupid, but it is what it is.
But that's exactly what I'm saying... feelings can be many a thing. It can even be both. It'd be a re-write, but it could be both. All I'm saying is that since he didn't specifically say one or the other, it leaves it open for them to use it. Feelings covers many different states.

I'm sure you are right, and they will make it mean what you saw it as, all I'm saying is that they have an opening there to begin an exploration of what was really going on. They don't have to spin it to change it, as much as they just go deeper into it.
I meant feelings of love, of course. That was the clear implication in the scene, IMO, and if the writers change it later just because they see, as you do, an easy "out" in the fact that they coincidentally never used the word "love" in the original script, so be it, but that won't convince me that it was ever part of their original plan for him to be expressing feelings of hatred during that scene. It just makes no sense; so what if John has feelings of hatred for Kristen? So does Marlena -- it's not like she'd begrudge him for feeling the same way that she does about Kristen. It'd be nothing less than an obvious retcon, and I'm simply a fan of calling a spade a spade. Just like I refuse to believe, as just one random example, that Will originally wanted to give up his parental rights to Arianna because he was afraid of losing Sonny, because that's not what Will repeatedly said in scenes prior to the day that the writers made him claim that. It's an obvious retcon. They happen, sure, but I refuse to just swallow them happily without calling the writers out on their inconsistent crap. And while I hate that the writers had John claim that he "still had feelings [of, IMO, love] for Kristen" just as much as you do, I don't think that it does John any favors for the writers to whitewash over that with an obvious retcon later, just like it didn't do Will any favors for the writers to rewrite history and make him look like he cared more about Sonny than his own daughter just to suit their new agenda. They made the mistake of writing John into the "I have feelings [of love] for Kristen" corner, and they should deal with it in a way that's fair to us and doesn't further insult our intelligence.

But that's just me. :soapbox:
Edited by Will&Sonny, Nov 15 2013, 07:16 PM.
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AFaithL


IIttu
Nov 14 2013, 07:32 AM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 05:00 AM
Marlena: Since you haven't denied it, am I to assume that what I said was true -- that you still have feelings for her?

John: Whatever my reasons behind...what I tried to make happen with Kristen, I -- I ask myself...would I ever dream of doing something so dark and outrageous if not for feelings that...should have died long ago?

Marlena: But they didn't?

John: No, they haven't.

Marlena slaps John.
I and my selective memory believe these scenes (and the rest of Jarlena's 2013 for that matter) never existed on Days. B-)
I need that conversation outside the pub explained to me. By John. In a way that makes sense. Otherwise, everything else is hollow. It's the elephant in the room. And it needs to be fixed.
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Keith
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I never saw the conversation outside the pub as cut and dry. John didn't even understand what his feelings were. He was trying to understand and whatever they were, they took him by surprise. I think that it was a mess of things - the old love was still there in some way, but he also hated her deeply for what she had done, but there was a carnal desire - but none of it was easy for John to process and either reject or go with. He didn't know what he was doing. Much of that can be chalked up to Drake not knowing how to play it, but I think that it was left open. The dialogue alone made it seem like John hated himself.
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Keith
Nov 15 2013, 10:49 PM
I never saw the conversation outside the pub as cut and dry. John didn't even understand what his feelings were. He was trying to understand and whatever they were, they took him by surprise. I think that it was a mess of things - the old love was still there in some way, but he also hated her deeply for what she had done, but there was a carnal desire - but none of it was easy for John to process and either reject or go with. He didn't know what he was doing. Much of that can be chalked up to Drake not knowing how to play it, but I think that it was left open. The dialogue alone made it seem like John hated himself.
Yes. I don't believe it was as much desire as confusion. He was confused that he didn't see it coming. And I also believe his pride was hurt that Marlena saw every single second of it, and he felt like he was right back there, being fooled the same way he was. We never saw him want to be with her, but we saw him confused about what was going on. Marlena was simply smarter than him, and John hated it. Which in and of itself was out of character. John would just be proud that Marlena saw it, and mad at himself without taking away from Marlena.
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Will&Sonny
Nov 15 2013, 07:14 PM
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Nov 15 2013, 09:09 AM
Will&Sonny
Nov 14 2013, 10:26 PM
John wouldn't have looked incredibly regretful in that scene, with a single tear rolling down his cheek, if he had been talking about feelings of hatred.

But you're right -- you're certainly entitled to interpret those scenes however you wish to interpret them. I did say that I was just stating my opinion. I remain convinced that John was saying exactly what it seems like he was saying in that scene -- that he still has feelings for Kristen. I think it's stupid, but it is what it is.
But that's exactly what I'm saying... feelings can be many a thing. It can even be both. It'd be a re-write, but it could be both. All I'm saying is that since he didn't specifically say one or the other, it leaves it open for them to use it. Feelings covers many different states.

I'm sure you are right, and they will make it mean what you saw it as, all I'm saying is that they have an opening there to begin an exploration of what was really going on. They don't have to spin it to change it, as much as they just go deeper into it.
I meant feelings of love, of course. That was the clear implication in the scene, IMO, and if the writers change it later just because they see, as you do, an easy "out" in the fact that they coincidentally never used the word "love" in the original script, so be it, but that won't convince me that it was ever part of their original plan for him to be expressing feelings of hatred during that scene. It just makes no sense; so what if John has feelings of hatred for Kristen? So does Marlena -- it's not like she'd begrudge him for feeling the same way that she does about Kristen. It'd be nothing less than an obvious retcon, and I'm simply a fan of calling a spade a spade. Just like I refuse to believe, as just one random example, that Will originally wanted to give up his parental rights to Arianna because he was afraid of losing Sonny, because that's not what Will repeatedly said in scenes prior to the day that the writers made him claim that. It's an obvious retcon. They happen, sure, but I refuse to just swallow them happily without calling the writers out on their inconsistent crap. And while I hate that the writers had John claim that he "still had feelings [of, IMO, love] for Kristen" just as much as you do, I don't think that it does John any favors for the writers to whitewash over that with an obvious retcon later, just like it didn't do Will any favors for the writers to rewrite history and make him look like he cared more about Sonny than his own daughter just to suit their new agenda. They made the mistake of writing John into the "I have feelings [of love] for Kristen" corner, and they should deal with it in a way that's fair to us and doesn't further insult our intelligence.

But that's just me. :soapbox:
I agree it's an easy out, but it is IMO more of a chance to begin the conversation. Marlena asks him about him and it's a chance to have John go deeper and explain what he meant. They didn't let him give an explanation, their scenes were just so short and didn't say much at all except to destroy John's character more. It's a place to start and it leaves it open to explore.

I doubt they will, because these writers don't give a shit about John or Marlena. And I'm a fan who enjoys character writing. I like to learn about the characters, I like to learn more, but still remaining in character. That's what, IMO, makes Marlena a more interesting character than John. Her history makes it possible to go many different ways. We have always seen that Marlena isn't black or white, she's good and has a good heart, she's a heroine, but she's a fierce protector of her family. So that way, her going to the extreme when needed in this situation with Brady... isn't really that far-fetched. It's an obvious plot point, a bad one, but as for being out of character... I don't really see it as such. But then, unlike these writers, I like character-driven writing, I don't enjoy plots for more than something to center the characters around, and I enjoy the characters I enjoy - which seems to be the ones TPTB don't love.
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Keith
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Nov 16 2013, 01:45 PM
Keith
Nov 15 2013, 10:49 PM
I never saw the conversation outside the pub as cut and dry. John didn't even understand what his feelings were. He was trying to understand and whatever they were, they took him by surprise. I think that it was a mess of things - the old love was still there in some way, but he also hated her deeply for what she had done, but there was a carnal desire - but none of it was easy for John to process and either reject or go with. He didn't know what he was doing. Much of that can be chalked up to Drake not knowing how to play it, but I think that it was left open. The dialogue alone made it seem like John hated himself.
Yes. I don't believe it was as much desire as confusion. He was confused that he didn't see it coming. And I also believe his pride was hurt that Marlena saw every single second of it, and he felt like he was right back there, being fooled the same way he was. We never saw him want to be with her, but we saw him confused about what was going on. Marlena was simply smarter than him, and John hated it. Which in and of itself was out of character. John would just be proud that Marlena saw it, and mad at himself without taking away from Marlena.
I agree. John has always been the "I was stupid, but you could see so clearly all along, Doc." type. I'll always be miffed that they didn't utilize his time out of town to have him digging stuff up on Kristen. The seduction plot was bullshit.
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Keith
Nov 16 2013, 04:13 PM
I agree. John has always been the "I was stupid, but you could see so clearly all along, Doc." type. I'll always be miffed that they didn't utilize his time out of town to have him digging stuff up on Kristen. The seduction plot was bullshit.
Or have him start a game along with Marlena to make Kristen believe she was winning. Marlena in town, broken hearted and angry, but working with an out-of-town John to get the dirt on Kristen and Stefano. That's something John would do. He should be using everything trying to survive Stefano these years has taught him.

John's always been very masculine and macho, but he has always been aware that his wife was smarter than him, and he's been proud of her. All John's ever wanted was to be a regular, blue-collar family with Marlena and their kids. With a healthy appetite for his wife, ridiculous amounts of love and adoration for all of his children, and never feeling that comfortable being rich. Money was just a way to make Marlena's and his children's lives easier, it wasn't something he felt he needed. I loved that about John. He's a simple guy, really, as stupid and complicated as they've made his past. He sort of begins and ends with what Marlena gave him in 1986. Her (as a wife or best friend, both really) and his family. He'd still put the Brady's above all, even Vivian, when they were aunt and nephew.

It's something I've never understood. They keep making John's past this complex, stupid thing, when he's a perfectly wonderful character as he was. Why can't a character just be a good guy, capital G, who loves his family, but also fights against the evils in their lives? Why does it have to be four hundred different identities? Marlena's already complex as hell, and they have never utilized that. It's sort of been Marlena supporting John when things happened to him for the past 15 years, never John standing by Marlena as shit happened to her. The Alex thing could have been lovely, but they frakked it up. Same for the back-from-the-dead in 2008, but they made it another new identity. John was so much better when he was an Alamain with all this money, but all he wanted was to be Roman Brady with the wife he wanted and the family he worshipped. I get that characters evolve, but they've messed him up and that in the end means that new writers don't understand him at all, so they do what everyone else did - create yet another new identity so that they'll get to write whatever crap they want.
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Rosebud
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Nov 16 2013, 01:45 PM
Keith
Nov 15 2013, 10:49 PM
I never saw the conversation outside the pub as cut and dry. John didn't even understand what his feelings were. He was trying to understand and whatever they were, they took him by surprise. I think that it was a mess of things - the old love was still there in some way, but he also hated her deeply for what she had done, but there was a carnal desire - but none of it was easy for John to process and either reject or go with. He didn't know what he was doing. Much of that can be chalked up to Drake not knowing how to play it, but I think that it was left open. The dialogue alone made it seem like John hated himself.
Yes. I don't believe it was as much desire as confusion. He was confused that he didn't see it coming. And I also believe his pride was hurt that Marlena saw every single second of it, and he felt like he was right back there, being fooled the same way he was. We never saw him want to be with her, but we saw him confused about what was going on. Marlena was simply smarter than him, and John hated it. Which in and of itself was out of character. John would just be proud that Marlena saw it, and mad at himself without taking away from Marlena.
I don't know how they're going to explain it all... But I could believe that John was ashamed of his behavior. He knew what he did went against everything he ever believed about himself. The heart of the issue is what Drake mentions... That John would never do anything to destroy Marlena. Everything spun out of control, Kristen manipulated everyone, got under everyone's skin, and John reacted irrationally, thinking he had to save his son. I think it can be explained that he left town in complete utter shame and self hatred for what he did. Kristen made a fool out of him so many times, he cracked this time. If he came back a broken man, it might work. It doesn't sound like it though... Sounds like he's more defensive and trying to put blame on Marlena. Trying to make her actions look as bad as his. That's not John. The one thing that HAD been true of John always, before these writers got hold of him, was that he would never hurt Marlena willfully. My god, they stayed away from each other for years after Roman divorced Marlena because they still though their love would hurt people and each other.
Edited by Rosebud, Nov 16 2013, 09:37 PM.
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AFaithL


It needs to be explained.
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