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Thursday, November 14th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 14 2013, 02:06 AM (20,854 Views)
tomsawyer
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elci525
Nov 14 2013, 05:50 PM
You may have just witnessed one of my most mature, least fanigrl shipper moments ever! Which probably isn't saying much :-/
Aw, elci, give yourself more credit. You're always good about having a mature discussion, even when you're being a fangirl. This is exactly what I love about DR - debating with people who have different preferences and opinions, but can hold a discussion without baiting and fanwanking. :hug:
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JillianJ


SocRMum1
Nov 14 2013, 06:01 PM
tomsawyer
Nov 14 2013, 05:44 PM
elci525
Nov 14 2013, 04:22 PM
JillianJ
Nov 14 2013, 03:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Oh, well, that is not exactly true. One can maybe argue EJ was deeply conflicted and it's a hard thing to choose between the love and loyalty for your sister and the love for your fiance. And I have stated his decision to keep the secret was symptomatic or played on very real issues existing for EJami - if you are to admit them as a serious coupling that merits that consideration. They come from families that are, at this point, by nature at odds with each other, a fact that will probably continue to present them with various conflicts of interest and tests of trust. Such is couple angst. But in this case, EJ did choose to protect his sister over coming clean to Sami with information she could have used to protect or help her brother. He chose to keep Sami in the dark. And at the wedding, he tried to hush hush Eric from making very important connections that would relate the video to the night he fell ill/was raped. And he is continuing to lie to Sami's face, implying that the sex depicted was consensual. He is lying to save his ass. Yes he doesn't want Sami to be angry with him, he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize what they have by allowing the truth of his actions to come out, but that is not the same as love. That is self-preservation and survival.

I am not going to make comments now about whether EJ really does love Sami or what that "love" means. That's not up to me to say. He probably does. But in this case, lying to cover his ass does not love equal. And perhaps he comes clean right away once Sami confront him tomorrow, which would be better than further digging himself into a corner and has redemptive/ameliorating merit. But up to this point, I feel at least the cover-up of the lie (of commission) is coming from a selfish place.
Even as an Ejami fan, I agree with all of this.

EJ fucked up, plain and simple. Although I have a hard time buying he and Kristen are that close, we have always seen him desperately wanting some semblance of a family. Unfortunately for EJ, trying to create a family with the DiMeras is usually going to put him at odds with Sami. So yeah, EJ was stupid and decided to do something that could hurt his relationship in order to to help his sister. You could argue that he was being loving, but that love was definitely directed toward Kristen and not Sami in that instance. And, of course, it totally backfired on him. What's especially depressing for EJ is that Kristen made it pretty clear she wouldn't have taken the same risk for him.

Anyway, Sami should be totally pissed. And even more pissed when she finds out he knew about the drugging too. I think it's a pretty major deal and should break them up for awhile. But I also think Sami could eventually forgive him because she knows she'd do the same thing to protect Eric or Brady if they did something to hurt EJ's family. It could provide a good longer arc for Ejami if they play it right, especially since the angst is stemming from the Brady vs. DiMera war that SHOULD continue to plague them.
I agree with both of you but will say that I feel like EJ's decision to lie (or not tell Sami about it) in the beginning stemmed more from his hope that Kristen's assurance that she had destroyed all the evidence and could not get caught was true more than any real desire to protect Kristen. Ultimately, I think EJ knew that Sami would (rightfully) blow a gasket and things would get ugly for everyone for a long time to come when he told her - and so he took the coward's way out and hoped it would never come to light.

Of course, he exacerbated the problem 10 fold when it did come out and he continued to dig his grave by not coming clean about what he'd found out and making it clear it was just earlier that same day. Sami still would have been initially pissed but given that she had walked in on EJ and Kristen's argument and could see that EJ was pissed at Kristen I think she would have come around much sooner to understanding the predicament he was in. Eventually. :laugh:

But yeah...EJ definitely screwed up. And it looks like he'll continue to for at least a while. I don't think it has anything to do with choosing Kristen over Sami or a lack of love for Sami - I think he just gambled with the hope that it would never come to light. Which, given his history with big, scandalous secrets, was an idiotic choice to make. :shrug:
I was going to respond, but this said it way better than I could. :hail: :hail:

and I am hoping the #fire scenes that CS tweeted about is it all coming to light, should be so good :popcorn:

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Rosebud
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six
Nov 14 2013, 01:45 PM
Panda Panda
Nov 14 2013, 01:43 PM
Rosebud
Nov 14 2013, 01:40 PM
Fr Matt asks Eric if he has proof he was drugged and he says no? Isn't Nicole a witness to how sick he was? Didn't he almost die? Wouldn't they have records of the incident at the hospital?
No, there were no drugs found in Eric's system so there's no way to prove he was actually drugged.
And there's no proof that the day Eric got sick was the day the rape happened.
I don't know much about such things, but wouldn't there be some kind of time stamp on the video? And doesn't the video prove they were in the hotel bedroom? What other time did Eric ever check into that hotel?
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elci525
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tomsawyer
Nov 14 2013, 06:01 PM
elci525
Nov 14 2013, 05:50 PM
You may have just witnessed one of my most mature, least fanigrl shipper moments ever! Which probably isn't saying much :-/
Aw, elci, give yourself more credit. You're always good about having a mature discussion, even when you're being a fangirl. This is exactly what I love about DR - debating with people who have different preferences and opinions, but can hold a discussion without baiting and fanwanking. :hug:
:cheers:

Awww, thanks tom! And agreed about debate on DR! I have missed this place :)
Edited by elci525, Nov 14 2013, 06:10 PM.
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Rosebud
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LuvingLumi
Nov 14 2013, 01:49 PM
Rosebud
Nov 14 2013, 01:28 PM
metitle
Nov 14 2013, 01:20 PM
Oh snap,
EJ throwing Samantha pass in her face.
drugging Austin!!!
Somehow that didn't have much of an impact on me considering Elvis raped Sami.
exactly....it would have been better if he hadn't had a history of sexually assaulting her, if he had thrown it in her face, but never did anything similar himself, the exchange would have had more impact....
Or if Sami had thrown it right back at him telling him he has no place to talk on that subject. Of course that would never be written in any script.
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six
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SocRMum1
Nov 14 2013, 06:01 PM
tomsawyer
Nov 14 2013, 05:44 PM
elci525
Nov 14 2013, 04:22 PM
JillianJ
Nov 14 2013, 03:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Oh, well, that is not exactly true. One can maybe argue EJ was deeply conflicted and it's a hard thing to choose between the love and loyalty for your sister and the love for your fiance. And I have stated his decision to keep the secret was symptomatic or played on very real issues existing for EJami - if you are to admit them as a serious coupling that merits that consideration. They come from families that are, at this point, by nature at odds with each other, a fact that will probably continue to present them with various conflicts of interest and tests of trust. Such is couple angst. But in this case, EJ did choose to protect his sister over coming clean to Sami with information she could have used to protect or help her brother. He chose to keep Sami in the dark. And at the wedding, he tried to hush hush Eric from making very important connections that would relate the video to the night he fell ill/was raped. And he is continuing to lie to Sami's face, implying that the sex depicted was consensual. He is lying to save his ass. Yes he doesn't want Sami to be angry with him, he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize what they have by allowing the truth of his actions to come out, but that is not the same as love. That is self-preservation and survival.

I am not going to make comments now about whether EJ really does love Sami or what that "love" means. That's not up to me to say. He probably does. But in this case, lying to cover his ass does not love equal. And perhaps he comes clean right away once Sami confront him tomorrow, which would be better than further digging himself into a corner and has redemptive/ameliorating merit. But up to this point, I feel at least the cover-up of the lie (of commission) is coming from a selfish place.
Even as an Ejami fan, I agree with all of this.

EJ fucked up, plain and simple. Although I have a hard time buying he and Kristen are that close, we have always seen him desperately wanting some semblance of a family. Unfortunately for EJ, trying to create a family with the DiMeras is usually going to put him at odds with Sami. So yeah, EJ was stupid and decided to do something that could hurt his relationship in order to to help his sister. You could argue that he was being loving, but that love was definitely directed toward Kristen and not Sami in that instance. And, of course, it totally backfired on him. What's especially depressing for EJ is that Kristen made it pretty clear she wouldn't have taken the same risk for him.

Anyway, Sami should be totally pissed. And even more pissed when she finds out he knew about the drugging too. I think it's a pretty major deal and should break them up for awhile. But I also think Sami could eventually forgive him because she knows she'd do the same thing to protect Eric or Brady if they did something to hurt EJ's family. It could provide a good longer arc for Ejami if they play it right, especially since the angst is stemming from the Brady vs. DiMera war that SHOULD continue to plague them.
I agree with both of you but will say that I feel like EJ's decision to lie (or not tell Sami about it) in the beginning stemmed more from his hope that Kristen's assurance that she had destroyed all the evidence and could not get caught was true more than any real desire to protect Kristen. Ultimately, I think EJ knew that Sami would (rightfully) blow a gasket and things would get ugly for everyone for a long time to come when he told her - and so he took the coward's way out and hoped it would never come to light.

Of course, he exacerbated the problem 10 fold when it did come out and he continued to dig his grave by not coming clean about what he'd found out and making it clear it was just earlier that same day. Sami still would have been initially pissed but given that she had walked in on EJ and Kristen's argument and could see that EJ was pissed at Kristen I think she would have come around much sooner to understanding the predicament he was in. Eventually. :laugh:

But yeah...EJ definitely screwed up. And it looks like he'll continue to for at least a while. I don't think it has anything to do with choosing Kristen over Sami or a lack of love for Sami - I think he just gambled with the hope that it would never come to light. Which, given his history with big, scandalous secrets, was an idiotic choice to make. :shrug:
I agree with all of these posts. Even now, he seems to be hoping he can just convince Sami that the sex was consensual and it'll all blow over and go away. That's obviously not what's going to happen, though.

The last time Sami found out Kristen slept with her brother, Sami took it out on EJ. And that was consensual, so I can understand why EJ would lie, to avoid getting caught in the crossfire again and because he was hoping Kristen would do the same for him. It was still a stupid choice, though.
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tomsawyer
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SocRMum1
Nov 14 2013, 06:01 PM
tomsawyer
Nov 14 2013, 05:44 PM
elci525
Nov 14 2013, 04:22 PM
JillianJ
Nov 14 2013, 03:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Oh, well, that is not exactly true. One can maybe argue EJ was deeply conflicted and it's a hard thing to choose between the love and loyalty for your sister and the love for your fiance. And I have stated his decision to keep the secret was symptomatic or played on very real issues existing for EJami - if you are to admit them as a serious coupling that merits that consideration. They come from families that are, at this point, by nature at odds with each other, a fact that will probably continue to present them with various conflicts of interest and tests of trust. Such is couple angst. But in this case, EJ did choose to protect his sister over coming clean to Sami with information she could have used to protect or help her brother. He chose to keep Sami in the dark. And at the wedding, he tried to hush hush Eric from making very important connections that would relate the video to the night he fell ill/was raped. And he is continuing to lie to Sami's face, implying that the sex depicted was consensual. He is lying to save his ass. Yes he doesn't want Sami to be angry with him, he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize what they have by allowing the truth of his actions to come out, but that is not the same as love. That is self-preservation and survival.

I am not going to make comments now about whether EJ really does love Sami or what that "love" means. That's not up to me to say. He probably does. But in this case, lying to cover his ass does not love equal. And perhaps he comes clean right away once Sami confront him tomorrow, which would be better than further digging himself into a corner and has redemptive/ameliorating merit. But up to this point, I feel at least the cover-up of the lie (of commission) is coming from a selfish place.
Even as an Ejami fan, I agree with all of this.

EJ fucked up, plain and simple. Although I have a hard time buying he and Kristen are that close, we have always seen him desperately wanting some semblance of a family. Unfortunately for EJ, trying to create a family with the DiMeras is usually going to put him at odds with Sami. So yeah, EJ was stupid and decided to do something that could hurt his relationship in order to to help his sister. You could argue that he was being loving, but that love was definitely directed toward Kristen and not Sami in that instance. And, of course, it totally backfired on him. What's especially depressing for EJ is that Kristen made it pretty clear she wouldn't have taken the same risk for him.

Anyway, Sami should be totally pissed. And even more pissed when she finds out he knew about the drugging too. I think it's a pretty major deal and should break them up for awhile. But I also think Sami could eventually forgive him because she knows she'd do the same thing to protect Eric or Brady if they did something to hurt EJ's family. It could provide a good longer arc for Ejami if they play it right, especially since the angst is stemming from the Brady vs. DiMera war that SHOULD continue to plague them.
I agree with both of you but will say that I feel like EJ's decision to lie (or not tell Sami about it) in the beginning stemmed more from his hope that Kristen's assurance that she had destroyed all the evidence and could not get caught was true more than any real desire to protect Kristen. Ultimately, I think EJ knew that Sami would (rightfully) blow a gasket and things would get ugly for everyone for a long time to come when he told her - and so he took the coward's way out and hoped it would never come to light.

Of course, he exacerbated the problem 10 fold when it did come out and he continued to dig his grave by not coming clean about what he'd found out and making it clear it was just earlier that same day. Sami still would have been initially pissed but given that she had walked in on EJ and Kristen's argument and could see that EJ was pissed at Kristen I think she would have come around much sooner to understanding the predicament he was in. Eventually. :laugh:

But yeah...EJ definitely screwed up. And it looks like he'll continue to for at least a while. I don't think it has anything to do with choosing Kristen over Sami or a lack of love for Sami - I think he just gambled with the hope that it would never come to light. Which, given his history with big, scandalous secrets, was an idiotic choice to make. :shrug:
Yeah, I don't think it was a case of choosing Kristen over Sami either, because he didn't think the secret would come out. I think he did choose to gamble his relationship with Sami however. Now, in his mind, it wasn't a huge gamble because of Kristen's assurances that the tape was gone. That's where he was especially stupid. Not only in believing Kristen, but also in gambling something as important as his relationship with Sami on somebody who doesn't seem to care that much about him.
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six
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Rosebud
Nov 14 2013, 06:06 PM
six
Nov 14 2013, 01:45 PM
Panda Panda
Nov 14 2013, 01:43 PM
Rosebud
Nov 14 2013, 01:40 PM
Fr Matt asks Eric if he has proof he was drugged and he says no? Isn't Nicole a witness to how sick he was? Didn't he almost die? Wouldn't they have records of the incident at the hospital?
No, there were no drugs found in Eric's system so there's no way to prove he was actually drugged.
And there's no proof that the day Eric got sick was the day the rape happened.
I don't know much about such things, but wouldn't there be some kind of time stamp on the video? And doesn't the video prove they were in the hotel bedroom? What other time did Eric ever check into that hotel?
Time stamps aren't really solid proof of anything, because they can be altered. Also, Eric could have gone to the hotel multiple times under an assumed name, like Kristen did. That's what I would do if I were a priest looking to break my vows and I lived on church grounds.
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JoeBucs32


Starr
Nov 14 2013, 05:38 PM
JoeBucs32
Nov 14 2013, 04:39 PM
Angie79
Nov 14 2013, 04:30 PM
JoeBucs32
Nov 14 2013, 03:15 PM
UGH -- the president's press conference wiped out nearly the entire episode in the Central Time Zone!
Arrrgh. Help!
What time does it air where you are (I am central too)? I record it, so I hope I get it.

In Chicago, DAYS starts at 11:00 am, which is exactly when the president started and he spoke for nearly the entire hour. :(
Wow. Days starts at 1:00 p.m. here in Wisconsin, Central time. So, maybe I gave you wrong info. Maybe, it reruns today's show at 11:00 p.m. Central time or a different time altogether. The special rerun was announced on Wisconsin news channel. Blah, now I'm confused. I thought Chicago and Wisconsin aired at the same, since they are both Central time.
I've been trying to call the NBC station in Chicago all day and checked the website too -- I've been unable to get any information about a rebroadcast. :(
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Reese


AFaithL
Nov 14 2013, 01:51 PM
Matt
Nov 14 2013, 01:48 PM
Oh? Nicole is jumping to Marlena's defense? I am here for this!
It would be nice if Brady did, for once, too.
Don' hold your breath for that. Nicole's braincells work a whole lot better than Brady's.
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Reese


JessicaLeigh
Nov 14 2013, 02:02 PM
This show was my favorite so far this week. So much coming together...it was ridiculously entertaining the whole time. I cannot WAIT to see Ericole and EJami come to a head tomorrow. And also, Nicole STILL looks smokin' hot and so well put together even after running a woman off the road and causing a major car accident.
Well, you know it's a soap requisite that you have to look good when you tell someone begging for forgiveness to go to hell. #soapdiva
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Rosebud
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Panda Panda
Nov 14 2013, 01:49 PM
jewlmc
Nov 14 2013, 01:44 PM
six
Nov 14 2013, 01:42 PM
Hope is being a shrew again today, rolling her eyes because EJ loves his sister. What is wrong with her?
His "sister"? More like the woman who tried to steal him from his mother,
His mother sold him before he was born and then decided to do take-backsies because she realized she could have John, Kristen's money, and the baby. :lol:


Very true! Susan was no angel!
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Rosebud
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Panda Panda
Nov 14 2013, 01:50 PM
I'm loving these Nicole/Victor scenes
It was great that they brought up the whole Marlena and Victor thing. It gives me hope that it won't be glossed over when/if Marlena confronts him. And it was nice to be able to add another person, Nicole, besides Maggie to the very small group that are defending Marlena.
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Rosebud
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JillianJ
Nov 14 2013, 01:53 PM
Oh Eeeej :popcorn:

Quote:
 
Whom he met just a year ago.


It doesn't matter, she is his sister who he loves, time does not define those things.
Sorry, that argument works a lot if the time, but it doesn't for Kristen and Elvis. I don't care if they consider each other brother and sister it just is not realistic that they have somehow developed a loving, devoted, willing to lie for, relationship in a year.
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TreasureCove
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six
Nov 14 2013, 01:13 PM
Laufeyson
Nov 14 2013, 01:10 PM
This is the perfect time for EJ and Sami to finally have THE talk about how little Johnny came to be.

But I know this show, it will never happen.
They already did that. Not that they couldn't again...
They could have had THE talk about EJ having Arnold rape Sami multiple times.
Edited by TreasureCove, Nov 14 2013, 08:22 PM.
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Rosebud
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six
Nov 14 2013, 02:05 PM
Panda Panda
Nov 14 2013, 01:49 PM
jewlmc
Nov 14 2013, 01:44 PM
six
Nov 14 2013, 01:42 PM
Hope is being a shrew again today, rolling her eyes because EJ loves his sister. What is wrong with her?
His "sister"? More like the woman who tried to steal him from his mother,
His mother sold him before he was born and then decided to do take-backsies because she realized she could have John, Kristen's money, and the baby. :lol:


During the first run, I was pleased when Susan reunited with Elvis and took him off to England, but in hindsight, I wonder how she became the innocent in the story.
IMO she was far from innocent! But because she acted stupid and crazy she was given a free ride.
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six
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TreasureCove
Nov 14 2013, 07:41 PM
six
Nov 14 2013, 01:13 PM
Laufeyson
Nov 14 2013, 01:10 PM
This is the perfect time for EJ and Sami to finally have THE talk about how little Johnny came to be.

But I know this show, it will never happen.
They already did that. Not that they couldn't again...
They could have had THE talk about EJ having Arnould rape Sami multiple times.
Nah. That sort of thing has never been treated as rape before, so there's no reason to start now.
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Ophelia
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Reese
Nov 14 2013, 06:57 PM
AFaithL
Nov 14 2013, 01:51 PM
Matt
Nov 14 2013, 01:48 PM
Oh? Nicole is jumping to Marlena's defense? I am here for this!
It would be nice if Brady did, for once, too.
Don' hold your breath for that. Nicole's braincells work a whole lot better than Brady's.
In Brady's defense, much of the blood supply to his downstairs brain has been diverted to his upstairs brain since Kristen's crimes were exposed.

I wouldn't surprised if the next time Brady and Marlena meet, he apologizes to her.
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kay
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Kay

cockymom
Nov 14 2013, 01:39 PM
I thought CM said Wilson wouldn't have anymore bedroom scenes while he was in the role.
When did he say that? If he said it in Chicago/Atlanta then that would have been August after he was released early from his contract. Unless what we saw today is the last bedroom scene we will see with him as Will.
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zyona


I thought Will was only 20yrs old, how come he drinks wine, unless it is Jesus Juice (grape)
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