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Friday, November 15th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 15 2013, 02:02 AM (24,743 Views)
magicsteacher
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Loved the Eric and Nicole scenes... well played by both.. each feeling a deep pain.

The Ejami fight... meh... we all know it won't last and is just another in the latest of their blowups.

Liked the Sami and Eric scenes.. she needed to be their for her twin brother, but it really bothered me that she lied by ommission to Eric by not telling him that Ej knew that his sister drugged and raped him. She yelled and screamed at EJ about how horrible it was of him to do it, then went ahead and essentially covered for him. Another plot point, I am sure.

Here's hoping Monday is a new day so we don't have to see Sami in that fugly leather dress ensemble with the bumpit ponytail for another day.
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ladyofthelake
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Professor-in-training

magicsteacher
Nov 17 2013, 08:10 PM
Loved the Eric and Nicole scenes... well played by both.. each feeling a deep pain.

The Ejami fight... meh... we all know it won't last and is just another in the latest of their blowups.

Liked the Sami and Eric scenes.. she needed to be their for her twin brother, but it really bothered me that she lied by ommission to Eric by not telling him that Ej knew that his sister drugged and raped him. She yelled and screamed at EJ about how horrible it was of him to do it, then went ahead and essentially covered for him. Another plot point, I am sure.

Here's hoping Monday is a new day so we don't have to see Sami in that fugly leather dress ensemble with the bumpit ponytail for another day.
Re: the Ejami fight. I actually liked it because it was pretty intense. I'm not caring at the moment what might be the history anymore. If a scene is intense and well acted, I'm going to enjoy it. I actually can't believe I'm defending them, but there you go. :P
The Eric/Sami scenes were well done as well. Actually, I can't fault Sami. Eric has enough on his plate. I also can't believe I'm semi-defending Sami in this lie of omission, but in this case, if Eric had one more thing on his mind and thought that there was one more person that might appear to be "out to get him", he might implode. So, I'm glad they had her do that.
I find Ejami, right now, pretty tolerable because there is a nice blend of it not being "all about them". Sure, they're in the scenes, but it's her brother and stepbrother and it's EJ's........whatever sister. This story has an umbrella impact that's rippling out through the Magic relationship, the Ericole relationship, hell, maybe even the Ejole relationship, possibly Dannifer down the road, Ejami, Marlena and her kids.....that makes for a good story. Hope is involved, Roman is involved (and I don't mind him so much, really).........well played.
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MissLola
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I liked the Ejami scenes. I've always enjoyed their chemistry when they are at odds.
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Supergirlx2
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DesignatedShelley
Nov 17 2013, 02:09 PM
Panda Panda
Nov 15 2013, 01:40 PM
How did this become about Dannifer?
I fucking laughed out loud when Hope stopped her actually important police business point blank to talk about ... Dannifer.

Please don't tell me that Dannifer isn't the most contrivedly pushed pairing currently on the show, because they so are. It's so blatantly obvious and yet TPTB are acting like the emperor has clothes on.
Hope should've asked Daniel why he & Eric didn't bring this suspected drugging investigation to her, especially once Eric suspected that the sexual dreams he was having were him remembering something that had actually happened.
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Rosebud
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Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 06:21 AM
KAM
Nov 16 2013, 08:33 PM
Rosebud
Nov 16 2013, 06:23 PM
Pookie
Nov 15 2013, 11:22 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Does he not know that Marlena had no idea he was on that video? Surely Eric can understand she never would have done that if she had known. And now that he knows as personally as SHE knows how vicious Kristen is, he can understand why she wanted Brady away from Kristen. If he's mad at her still, I do not understand him AT ALL. :shrug:
I think son Eric knows his mother was unaware that he was on the video and she would never have shown it had she known. However, Father Eric said he was disgusted with her for playing any filthy sex video in the house of God. By Marlena choosing to out Kristen in his church while he was officiating as a priest, Father Eric believes she has not only desecrated the sanctuary but disregarded his own religious role there.

That's my take anyway.
Father Eric himself also played that filthy sex video again in the house of God, as soon as Marlena left. Even the so called Priest they turn into a hypocrite.
Thank you for reminding me of that! Very interesting indeed!
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six
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Hologram
Nov 16 2013, 03:03 AM
tomsawyer
Nov 15 2013, 02:52 PM
six
Nov 15 2013, 02:17 PM
I think EJ is being a douchebag right now, but that aside, I really enjoyed the way ejami fought. No whimpering or cowering or begging. I just wish the reason for the fight hadn't been so black and white. It's the weak link in the fallout story, in which everyone else who did the wrong thing did so for easily understandable reasons.
Yeah, agreed. EJ was protecting his family the same way that Marlena and Victor did, but his actions didn't have the same complexity to them because EJ and Kristen don't have the same type of relationship. This is where there was a writing fail. EJ's actions would've been more believable and the angst would've had more impact if they had created more of a bond between Kristen and EJ.
Maybe the fact that Kristen looks like his mother could have something to do with this. I wish they would somehow explore that past more.
It would have been an interesting spin if they'd played Kristen more like EJ's surrogate mother than sister. We did get a little hint that Kristen thought of EJ as a son, and in one of EJ's (many) back stories, he was taken from Susan at a young age. If they ignored that Susan was on screen a couple of years back and played it like something had happened to her years ago, I could understand Kristen and EJ quickly forming a close knit bond under those circumstances.
Edited by six, Nov 17 2013, 11:23 PM.
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Rosebud
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tomsawyer
Nov 17 2013, 01:28 AM
Rosebud
Nov 17 2013, 12:20 AM
tomsawyer
Nov 17 2013, 12:13 AM
Rosebud
Nov 17 2013, 12:07 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
The point is Ericole is not at that stage yet. The point is building a long-term story arc. The point is love stories are even better when they take time to tell them.
You misunderstand me then. I know they aren't there yet, and I know they won't be any kind of couple for a long time (if they do it right) but there should still be that understated sexual chemistry. And understated chemistry does not mean anything close to kissing even. It's sparks. It's something you can see between a couple when they are across the room from each other, and when they are standing across from each other it becomes electric.
:shrug: I do see an understated chemistry - probably more romantic than sexual. But yeah, I see something that goes beyond just platonic friendship at moments. But even if I didn't, I'd still like the story. Because I'd know that these people care about each other and it could perhaps develop into something more in the future.
Well, like I said. It's entirely subjective.
Edited by Rosebud, Nov 17 2013, 10:32 PM.
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Rosebud
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Laufeyson
Nov 17 2013, 07:17 AM
Rosebud
Nov 17 2013, 12:14 AM
lysie
Nov 17 2013, 12:05 AM
AFaithL
Nov 16 2013, 11:33 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
It's more fun than the people who just jump into bed with the next woman that walks in the door, IMO. If they'd already had sex by now, they'd be like every other boring couple in Salem. Instead, they're not even a couple yet and there's a constant thread of will it happen or won't it happen. It's a tease. If Eric were any different, it wouldn't make any sense and there wouldn't be any angst for them to play.
It's a long way from them jumping into bed than my wanting to feel that chemistry. I did not expect or want to see them get physical on Friday's show. Not at all. But it would have created a moment if he had even started to reach to touch her forearm or shoulder, and didn't even touch her. She could have flinched if he had, and it wouldn't have been any kind if sexual touch, even just an attempt to reach out to her. It wouldn't even be conscious on his part. I guess I was waiting for that kind of magical moment and I didn't get it. Maybe it will happen, I don't know. :shrug:
But he did try to reach out to her and she did flinch, at least that's what I saw.
I must have missed it, LOL
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Rosebud
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angie37
Nov 17 2013, 11:54 AM
Eric didn't play that video a third time because he was turned on or to get his jollies. The man had just received video proof that he'd been raped. Not only that, he finally saw the face of his violator-- Kristen, who he had counseled and who was marrying his brother. He was shell shocked, if anything, and I didn't see him as a hypocrite.
But he could have taken it out of the church and watched it elsewhere. For him to be outraged at Marlena is hypocritical. She didn't played it to get turned on or to get her jollies either.
Edited by Rosebud, Nov 17 2013, 10:33 PM.
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Rosebud
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Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 02:01 PM
angie37
Nov 17 2013, 11:54 AM
Eric didn't play that video a third time because he was turned on or to get his jollies. The man had just received video proof that he'd been raped. Not only that, he finally saw the face of his violator-- Kristen, who he had counseled and who was marrying his brother. He was shell shocked, if anything, and I didn't see him as a hypocrite.
Eric can play the video as often as he likes, I have no problem with that. My problem was that I watched him shout at Marlena for playing filth in the house of God, then he himself went and did the exact same thing.
Exactly. There is no disputing or justifying that.
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Dee-anne


KAM
Nov 17 2013, 06:21 PM
Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 01:46 PM
KAM
Nov 17 2013, 11:44 AM
Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 06:21 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Of course reactions are subjective, but I didn't see Eric's playing of the video, the way he did it, as hypocritical. Once the video had been played there, the sanctuary was filled with its echoes. When Marlena played it, the purpose was shock value for Brady to see Kristen's destruction in front of a crowd. When Victor played it, the purpose was for people to see the destruction of Kristen's contention that Marlena had played a faked video. Father Eric was horrified by the first playing. He dazedly consented to the second playing while he tried to process the images with his memories. When Eric played it himself the third time, the crowd had gone from the sanctuary and Eric believed he was alone there with God. The purpose when Eric played it then was for him to see his own actions before God and begin to contemplate their consequences for his vocation as a priest.

Again, subjective, but not hypocritical to me. And actually, there are scriptural resonances in the three viewings with Peter's three denials of Christ. Intentional by the writers? IDK. Probably not. But still good advancement of the s/l theme, IMO.
It's either he is against filthy sex video being played in the house of God or he is not. He cant be laying into Marlena about her playing it in the house of God one minute and the next minute he is playing it himself in the house of God. It shouldn't even matter how many times it was already played, as long as he was not responsible for playing it. If he wanted to see it again for whatever reason, he should have taken it outside the sanctuary and played it. And I certainly had no idea why he would want to watch it again, there was no dialogue to that fact. I assumed it was because he was still in disbelief and he had to see it one more time to assure himself that he was the one being raped by Kristen. I am aware it is all plot point, but they have the characters doing contradictory things, saying contradictory things, or being very hypocritical for the sake of their plots. To me, it spoils their story telling every time, and one of the main reason, I am left with not many characters that I care about.
You are right that there was no dialogue explaining why Eric played the video again when he was by himself. It was left to each viewer to have a subjective response to the character's actions. You "assumed it was because he was still in disbelief and he had to see it one more time to assure himself that he was the one being raped by Kristen." I believe that he had already made that determination without a doubt after the second viewing, when he screamed at Kristen and charged toward her, before being punched by Brady. To me, Eric's first two viewings were about Kristen's identity and the reality of the sex from his nightmare. When he played the video while alone in the sanctuary, I saw him as just beginning to focus on himself and what he had done without knowing it. And to me, since he's a priest, that's a question that he has to search his soul about in front of God. So he might as well begin his questioning and penance where he feels closest to God. I had that subjective impression based on the character portrayal thus far, and the looks on Eric's face, in his eyes.

So I don't see the writers making Eric hypocritical in character or contradictory in action. To me, he can still be angry at Marlena's actions, because her and Victor's motivation was public humiliation and character destruction of another person through unholy spectacle in a holy place. I believe Eric would have been angry at Marlena even if he had not been on the video. As it is, he feels not only anger but profound hurt towards his mother's actions. As deep as it is now, I do not think he will feel that what she did is 'unforgivable.' He just won't accept her comfort right away.

Again to each his own reaction. If you are disappointed with the show or this character, maybe there will be something 'redemptive' coming up that will make it better for you. I hope so, because I think this s/l is about as good as DOOL is going to get. :)
I am not really bothered about why he wanted to see that video again, but the fact still remains that he shouted at his mother for playing it in the church and he went ahead and did the same thing again. There is no getting away from that. We can make up all sorts of excuses for it, but his objection was that it is a holy place, and Just because there was no one there to watch it with him, does not make it ok for him to play it. It is still the church, & still a holy place.
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six
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It might not be justifiable, but it is understandable. Even a priest gets to be less than perfect after his entire world comes crashing down. I'm sure he would have taken the video somewhere else if he wasn't in shock.
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Dee-anne


six
Nov 17 2013, 10:40 PM
It might not be justifiable, but it is understandable. Even a priest gets to be less than perfect after his entire world comes crashing down. I'm sure he would have taken the video somewhere else if he wasn't in shock.
Maybe I could buy that if it was not moments before he was telling off Marlena for doing the same thing. His brain was functioning fine then.
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six
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Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 10:47 PM
six
Nov 17 2013, 10:40 PM
It might not be justifiable, but it is understandable. Even a priest gets to be less than perfect after his entire world comes crashing down. I'm sure he would have taken the video somewhere else if he wasn't in shock.
Maybe I could buy that if it was not moments before he was telling off Marlena for doing the same thing. His brain was functioning fine then.
I completely disagree that his brain was functioning fine, then. He was in the middle of a meltdown and I don't think he would have yelled at Marlena if he had been thinking clearly.
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Rosebud
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six
Nov 17 2013, 10:40 PM
It might not be justifiable, but it is understandable. Even a priest gets to be less than perfect after his entire world comes crashing down. I'm sure he would have taken the video somewhere else if he wasn't in shock.
And it's understandable that he can also be a hypocrite.
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six
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Everything he's gone through is so extreme that I'm not willing to label him a hypocrite, but I can see why someone else might.
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lysie


I think the word hypocrite it used way too liberally and not at all accurately. At some point there has to be space for a person to act like a actual human. Being mad at Marlena and then replaying that tape are really the least of the issues going on right now.
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Dee-anne


six
Nov 17 2013, 10:51 PM
Dee-anne
Nov 17 2013, 10:47 PM
six
Nov 17 2013, 10:40 PM
It might not be justifiable, but it is understandable. Even a priest gets to be less than perfect after his entire world comes crashing down. I'm sure he would have taken the video somewhere else if he wasn't in shock.
Maybe I could buy that if it was not moments before he was telling off Marlena for doing the same thing. His brain was functioning fine then.
I completely disagree that his brain was functioning fine, then. He was in the middle of a meltdown and I don't think he would have yelled at Marlena if he had been thinking clearly.
He was able to reason, therefore his brain was functioning. I would expect him to be angry at Marlena, especially since he assumed she knew he was the one starring in the video and played it anyway.
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tomsawyer
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six
Nov 17 2013, 10:13 PM
Hologram
Nov 16 2013, 03:03 AM
tomsawyer
Nov 15 2013, 02:52 PM
six
Nov 15 2013, 02:17 PM
I think EJ is being a douchebag right now, but that aside, I really enjoyed the way ejami fought. No whimpering or cowering or begging. I just wish the reason for the fight hadn't been so black and white. It's the weak link in the fallout story, in which everyone else who did the wrong thing did so for easily understandable reasons.
Yeah, agreed. EJ was protecting his family the same way that Marlena and Victor did, but his actions didn't have the same complexity to them because EJ and Kristen don't have the same type of relationship. This is where there was a writing fail. EJ's actions would've been more believable and the angst would've had more impact if they had created more of a bond between Kristen and EJ.
Maybe the fact that Kristen looks like his mother could have something to do with this. I wish they would somehow explore that past more.
It would have been an interesting spin if they'd played Kristen more like EJ's surrogate mother than sister. We did get a little hint that Kristen thought of EJ as a son, and in one of EJ's (many) back stories, he was taken from Susan at a young age. If they ignored that Kristen was on screen a couple of years ago and played it like something had happened to her years ago, I would understand Kristen and EJ quickly forming a close knit bond under those circumstances.
I so wish they would've gone this way. Not only would it have played better into the ending moments of this story, but it also would've recognized the historical relationship better. Alas when they decided to cast Kristen as some kind of femme fatale this go round, I think they were scared to give her a surrogate mother relationship with a guy in his mid-thirties.
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Rosebud
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tomsawyer
Nov 17 2013, 11:09 PM
six
Nov 17 2013, 10:13 PM
Hologram
Nov 16 2013, 03:03 AM
tomsawyer
Nov 15 2013, 02:52 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Maybe the fact that Kristen looks like his mother could have something to do with this. I wish they would somehow explore that past more.
It would have been an interesting spin if they'd played Kristen more like EJ's surrogate mother than sister. We did get a little hint that Kristen thought of EJ as a son, and in one of EJ's (many) back stories, he was taken from Susan at a young age. If they ignored that Kristen was on screen a couple of years ago and played it like something had happened to her years ago, I would understand Kristen and EJ quickly forming a close knit bond under those circumstances.
I so wish they would've gone this way. Not only would it have played better into the ending moments of this story, but it also would've recognized the historical relationship better. Alas when they decided to cast Kristen as some kind of femme fatale this go round, I think they were scared to give her a surrogate mother relationship with a guy in his mid-thirties.
It would also have reminded everyone that Brady was almost her step son and a mere child when she was with John.
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