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Friday, November 22nd Daily Discussion
Topic Started: Nov 22 2013, 12:47 AM (14,417 Views)
i<3ddjmalways
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Marlena and Belle-Mother and Daughter

blueskies
Nov 25 2013, 12:13 AM
six
Nov 24 2013, 11:13 PM
BeeBee
Nov 24 2013, 08:22 PM
six
Nov 24 2013, 02:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
So EJ is responsible for Fay's death since he kept quiet about Rafe 2.Sami and Will are responsible for Arianna's death since she shot EJ and she and Will kept quiet about it and covered it up.Stefano is responsible for Bernardi's death,Sami being in jail,Chad getting shot,Marge going to prison,Timmy growing up without his mother and father,and Chad leaving Salem.I hope all of Salem finds out about their crimes then they find out about Gabi's crime.After Will,Sami,EJ,and Stefano go to prison Gabi can go too.
If you ever get bored enough to search through my posts, you'll see that I argued for every last one of those positions. It's kind of uncanny. I don't want anyone to go to jail though. Not because they're not terrible people who totally belong there (because they definitely are), but because they're entertaining and I'd miss them if they left.

Oh and all of Salem already knows about EJ's role in Fay's death, Rafe is apparently cool with Sami and Will's role in Ari Sr.'s death, and everyone is aware that Stefano set the chain of events in motion that lead to Sami's trial, Marge's meltdown etc. Thew writers flat out had characters say he was responsible for everything that happened. And they're right.
And yet Kristen's the devil. She didn't kill ANYONE. Just drugged a guy who happens to be a priest into sleeping with her and having it appear consensual.
She also hypnotized John so he would sleep with her, she kidnapped Marlena and locked her in a secret room for months, then tried to kill her twice. The first time was with some penicillin laced candy that Belle got ahold of by accident, the second time she held a gun to Marlena and tried to shoot her. She even aided Stefano in helping Stefano kidnap Marlena.
She may not have killed anyone but she certainly almost did a couple of times. Belle almost died from the poisoned candy. And what she did to Eric was purely and completely psychotic and evil. :toetap:
I also forgot that she drugged Susan, impersonated her and even tried to steal her baby and keep him for herself.
Edited by i<3ddjmalways, Nov 25 2013, 12:20 AM.
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Keith
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lysie
Nov 24 2013, 01:27 PM
I don't like Gabi at all, but I don't think Jack and Madison are her victims. Melanie is. I do wish that Jack's family had the chance to know what happened (particularly Abby), but as far as her going to prison or anything, I think that's just stupid. Most of the people in Salem who know what she did have done far worse and they're still walking around free and as self-righteous about it as could be.
I always avoid mentioning jail for a reason. Characters just don't go to jail. They should pay in other ways. Some may disagree, but I think Will has paid his dues morally or whatever-ly in regards to EJ's shooting (EJ's blackmail, Nick's blackmail), but Gabi hasn't paid at all in that way. I just want it to come out.
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six
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BeeBee
Nov 24 2013, 11:55 PM
six
Nov 24 2013, 11:13 PM
BeeBee
Nov 24 2013, 08:22 PM
six
Nov 24 2013, 02:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
So EJ is responsible for Fay's death since he kept quiet about Rafe 2.Sami and Will are responsible for Arianna's death since she shot EJ and she and Will kept quiet about it and covered it up.Stefano is responsible for Bernardi's death,Sami being in jail,Chad getting shot,Marge going to prison,Timmy growing up without his mother and father,and Chad leaving Salem.I hope all of Salem finds out about their crimes then they find out about Gabi's crime.After Will,Sami,EJ,and Stefano go to prison Gabi can go too.
If you ever get bored enough to search through my posts, you'll see that I argued for every last one of those positions. It's kind of uncanny. I don't want anyone to go to jail though. Not because they're not terrible people who totally belong there (because they definitely are), but because they're entertaining and I'd miss them if they left.

Oh and all of Salem already knows about EJ's role in Fay's death, Rafe is apparently cool with Sami and Will's role in Ari Sr.'s death, and everyone is aware that Stefano set the chain of events in motion that lead to Sami's trial, Marge's meltdown etc. Thew writers flat out had characters say he was responsible for everything that happened. And they're right.
I just don't see that Gabi's behavior renders her unworthy to parent her own child and warrants her being found out by all of Salem and sent to prison while Sami,EJ,and Stefano are seen as great parents and wonderful gray characters who should conquer all lesser mortals in Salem.
Seriously, IDK why my posts are relevant to this topic, since in that quote I said they all deserve to be in prison, but I don't want any of them to go. But anyway - when people don't like characters, they want them to go away, by any means possible. Prison, death, UFO abduction... Doesn't matter.
Edited by six, Nov 25 2013, 01:06 AM.
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S loves EJ


six
Nov 24 2013, 11:13 PM
BeeBee
Nov 24 2013, 08:22 PM
six
Nov 24 2013, 02:04 PM
Lady Evol
Nov 24 2013, 02:08 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I like Gabi, and I think she's guilty as sin when it comes to the deaths of Jack and Madison. Like Keith said, she set everything that happened in motion.
So EJ is responsible for Fay's death since he kept quiet about Rafe 2.Sami and Will are responsible for Arianna's death since she shot EJ and she and Will kept quiet about it and covered it up.Stefano is responsible for Bernardi's death,Sami being in jail,Chad getting shot,Marge going to prison,Timmy growing up without his mother and father,and Chad leaving Salem.I hope all of Salem finds out about their crimes then they find out about Gabi's crime.After Will,Sami,EJ,and Stefano go to prison Gabi can go too.
If you ever get bored enough to search through my posts, you'll see that I argued for every last one of those positions. It's kind of uncanny. I don't want anyone to go to jail though. Not because they're not terrible people who totally belong there (because they definitely are), but because they're entertaining and I'd miss them if they left.

Oh and all of Salem already knows about EJ's role in Fay's death, Rafe is apparently cool with Sami and Will's role in Ari Sr.'s death, and everyone is aware that Stefano set the chain of events in motion that lead to Sami's trial, Marge's meltdown etc. Thew writers flat out had characters say he was responsible for everything that happened. And they're right.

I don´t consider EJ resposible for Fay´s death Rafe2 did that on his own, nor do I consider Sami and Will resposible for Arianna´s death that was an accident.
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MissFancyFace
Some gals have all the luck!

lysie
Nov 22 2013, 12:47 AM
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Discuss!
Hope and her one true best friend!! :rockon: Aside from Steve Johnson. :cheer:
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six
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S loves EJ
Nov 25 2013, 04:48 AM
six
Nov 24 2013, 11:13 PM
BeeBee
Nov 24 2013, 08:22 PM
six
Nov 24 2013, 02:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
So EJ is responsible for Fay's death since he kept quiet about Rafe 2.Sami and Will are responsible for Arianna's death since she shot EJ and she and Will kept quiet about it and covered it up.Stefano is responsible for Bernardi's death,Sami being in jail,Chad getting shot,Marge going to prison,Timmy growing up without his mother and father,and Chad leaving Salem.I hope all of Salem finds out about their crimes then they find out about Gabi's crime.After Will,Sami,EJ,and Stefano go to prison Gabi can go too.
If you ever get bored enough to search through my posts, you'll see that I argued for every last one of those positions. It's kind of uncanny. I don't want anyone to go to jail though. Not because they're not terrible people who totally belong there (because they definitely are), but because they're entertaining and I'd miss them if they left.

Oh and all of Salem already knows about EJ's role in Fay's death, Rafe is apparently cool with Sami and Will's role in Ari Sr.'s death, and everyone is aware that Stefano set the chain of events in motion that lead to Sami's trial, Marge's meltdown etc. Thew writers flat out had characters say he was responsible for everything that happened. And they're right.

I don´t consider EJ resposible for Fay´s death Rafe2 did that on his own, nor do I consider Sami and Will resposible for Arianna´s death that was an accident.
And Andrew accidentally caused the explosions on his own. But none of those things would have happened if not for the criminal acts of EJ, Sami, Gabi and Will. What EJ did was akin to leaving a loaded gun on a table in a house full of kids. He knew Fafe was dangerous and unpredictable he still allowed him to be in the path of everyone around him, including poor Fay. And if Sami and Will (and Rafe) hadn't terrorized and pressured Arianna, she never would have panicked and ran out into the street. And like I've said, I don't hate any of these characters, but I'm not going to pretend I don't think they had a role in what happened.
Edited by six, Nov 25 2013, 08:58 AM.
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S loves EJ


Yet you didn't think EJ was quilty of rape by proxy I think he is more quilty of that then Fay's death. EJ know Rafe2 was a little agressive since he beat up Rafe but I don't think he realize quite how dangerous he was. Still people can have different opinions about it.
Edited by S loves EJ, Nov 25 2013, 11:36 AM.
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six
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If you remember that, you should also remember I don't consider EJ guilty of rape by proxy, because sex with a doppelganger has never been considered rape in Salem. I'm not pretending not to consider it rape because it involves EJ and Sami.

He is morally responsible for Rafe being held captive and for letting a dangerous person live with Sami and the three children, etc It's strange to me that you're arguing that EJ didn't know Fafe was dangerous AND that EJ used Fafe to rape Sami (if committing rape isn't an aggressive action and the act of a dangerous person, IDK what is) but whatever. Like you said, and I've never disagreed - everyone can have their own opinion on the matter.
Edited by six, Nov 25 2013, 09:46 AM.
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JillianJ


EJ got blamed for Arianna's death and he was just one of the owners of the drug business and someone Troy worked for, how is that any different from Gabi setting events into motion.

Ultimately its not even about going to jail and being punished, but people knowing what Gabi is really capable off; just a few months ago people were all 'poor Gabi' because of what she suffered because of her stalker. Ridiculous!
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S loves EJ


six
Nov 25 2013, 09:27 AM
If you remember that, you should also remember I don't consider EJ guilty of rape by proxy, because sex with a doppelganger has never been considered rape in Salem. I'm not pretending not to consider it rape because it involves EJ and Sami.

He is morally responsible for Rafe being held captive and for letting a dangerous person live with Sami and the three children, etc It's strange to me that you're arguing that EJ didn't know Fafe was dangerous AND that EJ used Fafe to rape Sami (if committing rape isn't an aggressive action and the act of a dangerous person, IDK what is) but whatever. Like you said, and I've never disagreed - everyone can have their own opinion on the matter.
I think EJ is quilty of rape to a certain degree but I don't think it's all black
and white. EJ told Rafe2 to sleep with Sami not rape her so I don't think EJ realized it was rape or saw it as agressive it wasn't any violance involved. Regardless I´m mostly think Rafe2 was a horrible storyline that never should have been written so I don´t let it stand in the way of Ejami.

As for Sami and Will's involvment in Ari's death it was bad behaviour but I doubt it's a crime.
Edited by S loves EJ, Nov 25 2013, 11:38 AM.
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six
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Sami physically attacked Arianna and attempted to bash her head in with a paperweight. That's definitely a crime. Will's attempt to get Arianna to cover up Sami's crime may or may not be something he could be charged with, but it should be (and I have a feeling it is).
Edited by six, Nov 25 2013, 10:27 AM.
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lysie


six
Nov 25 2013, 10:23 AM
Sami physically attacked Arianna and attempted to bash her head in with a paperweight. That's definitely a crime. Will's attempt to get Arianna to cover up Sami's crime may or may not be something he could be charged with, but it should be (and I have a feeling it is).
They're definitely guilty of those things but I don't think they're guilty of killing her. And if you're going to go all the way back like that, the chain of guilt is just going to go from them to EJ back to Sami and then end right back up at Stefano.

I hate the term "rape by proxy" but the difference in Rafe 2 and every other doppelgänger story is that his assignment was to have sex with her. That wasn't a direct assignment with other doppelgängers.
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JaneDigby


LuvingLumi
Nov 24 2013, 11:19 PM
I don't like Gabi but I wouldn't necessarily say that she is the one responsible for the deaths of Madison or Jack. Obviously, Andrew was....Gabi's crime is that she knew what happened to Mel and didn't help until it was barely too late. I don't for a second believe anyone in Salem can ever point a finger at Gabi and want her to pay for whatever freaking crime they want her to pay for unless they all cart themselves to jail with her. It's frankly ironic that she will end up likely being the one that goes to jail, since we know Camila will be leaving Days soon....
Who knows? Maybe she'll get a fabulous modeling contract after all.

As I said upthread: no one in Salem has any right to claim the moral high ground, with the exception of possibly Sonny and Jordan but give them time.

But I do love a good confrontation and would love to see Gabi be on the receiving end of one. I'd also like to see Gabi out of victim mode and standing on her own two feet. Let's face it, anyone who can hire a stalker and fake their BFFs trip to Europe has organizational skills and nerves if not of steel than at least stronger than over cooked pasta.
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JaneDigby


MissFancyFace
Nov 25 2013, 06:01 AM
lysie
Nov 22 2013, 12:47 AM
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Discuss!
Hope and her one true best friend!! :rockon: Aside from Steve Johnson. :cheer:
Loved the Hope and Melissa friendship. I wish they'd give Hope another BFF instead of having her prop Jennifer 24/7.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

JaneDigby
Nov 25 2013, 10:54 AM
LuvingLumi
Nov 24 2013, 11:19 PM
I don't like Gabi but I wouldn't necessarily say that she is the one responsible for the deaths of Madison or Jack. Obviously, Andrew was....Gabi's crime is that she knew what happened to Mel and didn't help until it was barely too late. I don't for a second believe anyone in Salem can ever point a finger at Gabi and want her to pay for whatever freaking crime they want her to pay for unless they all cart themselves to jail with her. It's frankly ironic that she will end up likely being the one that goes to jail, since we know Camila will be leaving Days soon....
Who knows? Maybe she'll get a fabulous modeling contract after all.

As I said upthread: no one in Salem has any right to claim the moral high ground, with the exception of possibly Sonny and Jordan but give them time.

But I do love a good confrontation and would love to see Gabi be on the receiving end of one. I'd also like to see Gabi out of victim mode and standing on her own two feet. Let's face it, anyone who can hire a stalker and fake their BFFs trip to Europe has organizational skills and nerves if not of steel than at least stronger than over cooked pasta.
Gabi has already been on the receiving end of at least one confrontation.....when she lied to Sami about being pregnant with her grandchild. Problem with that confrontation was that IMHO Sami had no room to judge ANYONE, especially for lying when it comes to paternity matters. This is what I mean....the people that will probably go after her for her part in the Daysaster are people that shouldn't...glass houses and all......Abby might have more of a claim but she's also done some pretty bad things herself...not to the extent of others....but no one is perfect in Salem.....well except as you said....Jordan and Sonny...heck not even Ciara is innocent, lol.
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Keith
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I do NOT understand the concept that those who have wronged others cannot then feel wronged themselves. Just because you have done bad things to people in the past or present doesn't mean you can't feel justified in responding to someone then wronging you.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

Keith
Nov 25 2013, 11:33 AM
I do NOT understand the concept that those who have wronged others cannot then feel wronged themselves. Just because you have done bad things to people in the past or present doesn't mean you can't feel justified in responding to someone then wronging you.
For me personally it's all in the way it's written. I hated how they wrote Sami being so up in arms about Gabi keeping the truth from her......it's in the way it's done not it what's done, at least for me.
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six
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lysie
Nov 25 2013, 10:31 AM
six
Nov 25 2013, 10:23 AM
Sami physically attacked Arianna and attempted to bash her head in with a paperweight. That's definitely a crime. Will's attempt to get Arianna to cover up Sami's crime may or may not be something he could be charged with, but it should be (and I have a feeling it is).
They're definitely guilty of those things but I don't think they're guilty of killing her. And if you're going to go all the way back like that, the chain of guilt is just going to go from them to EJ back to Sami and then end right back up at Stefano.

I hate the term "rape by proxy" but the difference in Rafe 2 and every other doppelgänger story is that his assignment was to have sex with her. That wasn't a direct assignment with other doppelgängers.
I'm not saying Will and Sami killed Arianna. There's a difference between being partially responsible for someone's death and actually killing them. It's like if Joe goes online and posts the location of his neighbors house key and address and the times they're out of the house, then they get robbed. Joe didn't rob them, but it's partially his fault that it happened.

IMO, there is a solid link between Will and Sami's actions and Ari being so upset that she ran out in front of a car, that is just not there between Ari's death and the Sydnapping (I'm guessing that's the next link in the hypothetical chain you're talking about). It's not like Ari died weeks after her confrontations with Sami and Will. It all took place in the same day.

And on R2, I see what you're saying, but I still disagree, because even if sex wasn't a direct assignment in the other stories, it still took place, so it would actually be rape IRL, but the story never took that turn. So, I don't think doppelganger sex suddenly becomes soap rape, because the sex was explicitly discussed beforehand, instead of quietly assumed to be taking place.
Edited by six, Nov 25 2013, 12:19 PM.
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JaneDigby


LuvingLumi
Nov 25 2013, 11:50 AM
Keith
Nov 25 2013, 11:33 AM
I do NOT understand the concept that those who have wronged others cannot then feel wronged themselves. Just because you have done bad things to people in the past or present doesn't mean you can't feel justified in responding to someone then wronging you.
For me personally it's all in the way it's written. I hated how they wrote Sami being so up in arms about Gabi keeping the truth from her......it's in the way it's done not it what's done, at least for me.
I can see both points here. If someone wrongs you, yes, you do get to go off on them, in my book. You don't get to claim that you are morally superior to the one who has wronged you.

I didn't mind Sami going off on Gabi. IMO, she had a right to and it's a Sami thing to do. It's why I love her. She'll jump all over anyone but she didn't act like what Gabi did was something she would never do. I'd call BS on that in a sec. YMMV.

But the writing matters. Take Nicole and Eric. I love Nicole but girlfriend does have some credibility issues. If she'd said "how dare you not believe me, Eric" I'd have giggled. Instead she said, "Knowing what my father did to me, how can you believe I would ever do that to someone else?" I can buy that.

I felt the same way when Marlena slapped the eyebrow off John's face and said "Don't you dare play noble with me." She made mistakes but she had a right to go off on John.
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Supergirlx2
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JaneDigby
Nov 25 2013, 10:56 AM
MissFancyFace
Nov 25 2013, 06:01 AM
lysie
Nov 22 2013, 12:47 AM
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Discuss!
Hope and her one true best friend!! :rockon: Aside from Steve Johnson. :cheer:
Loved the Hope and Melissa friendship. I wish they'd give Hope another BFF instead of having her prop Jennifer 24/7.
Hope has Marlena. and she had Lexie until Renee decided to retire & gave the show the okay to kill Lexie.
Hope also, to some degree, has Rafe as well. We've been seeing bits here & there of their friendship, especially with Hope having visited him in the hospital a few times. I think Hope/Rafe could work as a "replacement" (not a literal one, but a comparative one) to Hope/Steve - there may be a bit of friendly flirt teasing back & forth, but it's playful, not romantic, & they have each other's backs in times of need.
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