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| Monday, February 3rd Daily Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 3 2014, 12:11 AM (22,314 Views) | |
| elci525 | Feb 3 2014, 06:12 PM Post #221 |
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Ok so finally caught up on the Ejabby scenes - thank goodness for youtube! So here are my myriad thoughts in case anyone cares. I caught the Abby and Adrienne scenes before the EMERGENCY NBC UPDATES OF NYC STORMWATCH 2014 #115 - USE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND WATCH OUT FOR THE SALT TRUCKS!!! But I re-watched just now. I had mixed feelings. Goodness knows I HATE when people forget EJs crimes - it's one the main reasons all that Ejill bullshit from 2012 bugged the frak out of me, and why more recently Sonny and co. being EJ's cheerleaders bothered me as well (although I do understand they appreciate his helping them). And GOODNESS KNOWS I hated hated hated Lucas trying to warn or whatever Will about EJ and then Will being, what was in my estimation, bratty and punkish. Of course that has a lot to do with (oh heck, maybe everything to do with) the fact I loathe EJ for what happened to Lumi, I loathe that Lucas is always the loser to EJ, and I loathed that Lumi's baby was an EJ sycophant. I remember seeing posts that Will was exerting his young adulthood autonomy and that that should be respected. But I was all for filial respect over young adulthood rebellion respect at the time. So here it's not exactly the same situation only with different characters, and I am not writing this to bring up differences between that story then and this story now, and I am sure I am reducing the EJill/Lucas stuff x 1,000,000. But it a kinda sorta-ish simlarish situation a little. Yes, Adrienne does know EJ very well in that she knows his crimes. She would have been totally in the right and perfectly justified putting Abby in her place and laying down some knowledge on Abby's myopic standpoint. And Abby certainly sounded bitchy and disrespectful towards her aunt, and also silly forgetting in what way Adrienne might indeed know EJ very well. So I agree with that POV - Abby was acting like a twat. At the same time, I personally really enjoyed Abby sticking up for herself even though she sounded disrespectful and strangely short-sighted. Call me hypocritical, but that's the truth. I would have been soooooo angry if my aunt went behind my back to rat out what she THOUGHT she saw me do instead of speaking to me directly first. So I side with Abby on that one. And it seems to me that part of this Ejabby thing, a small part, is a general "awakening" for Abby - she's coming into her sexuality and her adulthood, and she is definitely feeling rebellious. So for her to stand up for herself, but do so maybe a little too fervently, a little too excitedly, to the detriment of her secret-keeping most likely, and in a way that made her sound a bitchy amnesiac....makes sense to me. I hate and will continue to hate it when people ignore EJs crimes and I agree that I ADORE Kayla for reacting to him appropriately. But since Abby is in the midst of this infatuation, it kind of makes sense to me. It's still stupid, but she's not making smart choices right now after all (though am I ever pleased to watch her mistakes). She still sounded like the same character to me in that she was a strident know-it all, and I wouldn't appreciate Adrienne busy-bodying into my business either. Abby sort of reeled in her rebellious ire when she was speaking with EJ a few minutes later, I thought, but atm with Adrienne she felt bolstered and a little too assured for her own good. There was probably a lot of emotion and eagerness clouding her better judgment and potential for bigger-picture appraising. Edited by elci525, Feb 3 2014, 06:48 PM.
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| Amanda_gayle | Feb 3 2014, 06:14 PM Post #222 |
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Thanks for that. My memories are of Patch and Kayla, Bo and Hope, Old Roman and Marlena and of course Jack and Jennifer. I remember some of Adrienne, but it's really sad she's just a device now. Somebody needs to get a handle on Jenn's kids since she cannot. MR better watch it cause they're gonna end up doing that to her soon too. (Plot device) ...Anyway, I wish they could get Adrienne to step up more. Right now I feel like oh no, here comes Adrienne. I agree she should have told her everything about EJ's past with the family. Abby is so into EJ for the sex and the "he read Dads book." wow! That's a great reason to sleep with the guy. I can't FREAKING WAIT until the Hortons hear about this. I don't know if it will top Sami's reaction, but it just might! I know this post is all over the place, but one last thing. EJ and Sami deserve each other because they have both done done evil things to people and each other. I know Abby needs a story desperately, but really she is just a girl finding her sexuality. Unless she can accept the WHOLE Dimera family, there's no way she could be a Dimera. Obviously, this is something Sami is trying to come to terms with herself. Anyway, I have grown to enjoy the Abby EJ affair because it's exciting, but can't wait for the aftermath that will cause shock waves in Salem. |
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| elci525 | Feb 3 2014, 06:20 PM Post #223 |
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As for the actual Ejabby scenes, I looooved them! :cheer: I loved Abby's snark with EJ and he seemed to respond to it positively (unless he was purely acting, which is very possible). He rallied back her bowling alley line which was cute. I also really loved watching them test each other. EJ knows exactly what is going on and is being perfectly prophetic about what will probably be his downfall re: the affair. Abby's responses to him seemed perfectly in character for this awakening thing I was just talking about. The "I wasn't defending you, I was defending myself" sentiment, while a teeny bit true, also sounded like an empowerment platitude - but that didn't stop me from loving the sass. There was tons of flirty sexual tension imo, and EJ looked kind of pleased to me after he said "If.....?" (in response to her "If this is really over...."). I think he enjoyed the vollying and ego stroking, and might just enjoy chatting with Abby just the teeniest bit. |
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| tomsawyer | Feb 3 2014, 06:20 PM Post #224 |
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:hail: :hail: :hail: In theory, because of her own shortcomings and past crimes, I can see how Sami is uniquely suited for EJ. But rather than drawing that out and actually writing a story for her to come to understand and forgive him last year (and vice versa), they slapped them together in two episodes. That annoyed the fuck out of me. There was a good story to tell and they didn't bother to take the time to write it. It was nothing but plot point, big dramatic well-written episode, and then back to plot points. That's become the hallmark of the TomSell writing style. Same thing with this Ejabby - Ejami deal. Of the three characters, I can somewhat understand EJ's motivation. He feels rejected by Sami and I guess he draws the line at eight years of feeling that way. Not sure why now is the breaking point when shooting him in the head wasn't, but fine, whateves. What I really want to know is why in the hell are Abby and Sami behaving the way they are. Sami is mad and hurt, but just dithers around aimlessly regarding EJ. That's so out of character for her. Even if it's a dumb thing to do, Sami is a character of action. And what about Abby? I guess I'm supposed to believe that she's so hungry for EJ's dick that she's completely lost her morals and done a 180 from the character she was for the last 18 months. Sorry, I just don't buy it. Overall, I enjoy the drama and the pacing that TomSell brings and after MarDar's plodding storylines, it has been a welcome change. But the further we get into their tenure, the more their lack of attention to ANY kind of character-driven story (save for Ericole) makes me want to pound my head against the wall. The show is regularly entertaining because of the plots/drama, but it's not a great show. If they could actually write for characters at the same time as their plots, well then it would be. |
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| BeeBee | Feb 3 2014, 06:26 PM Post #225 |
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I bring up characters engaging in the same/similar behavior who receive no critism.I brought up Chad when I saw posts that Abby was too short to be with EJ but I could recall no such criticism when she was with Chad when both men are exactly the same height,6'4'',in fact many posters shipped Abby and Chad.I brought up Will's behavior when Gabi was criticized for engaging in criminal behavior and "allowing" herself to be manipulated by Nick and many wanted her to pay for her crimes by going to jail and have Will and Sonny raise her baby.I brought up EJ when Rafe was criticized for yelling at Sami and treating her like a child but the same criticism was not leveled when EJ yelled at her and treated her like a child ,EJ's behavior was seen as a sign of "true love" between "soulmates". If I believe the comparison is apt,I use it.The only reason I brought up Sami is because I don't understand why Abby is always held to a higher standard than other characters.Abby should feel bad about for having sex with EJ while EJ is engaged to Sami but EJ should not be criticized for having sex with Taylor while married to Nicole and Sami should not be criticized for having sex with EJ while married to Rafe.Abby should also feel bad because of EJ and Sami's kids but those kids existed when Sami and EJ committed adultery but I don't recall any concern for the kids when both committed adultery.Abby should feel bad for having sex with EJ who did bad things to her uncle and cousin but Sami has no reason to feel bad about getting engaged and married to EJ who has kidnapped her child,told her said child was dead,blackmailed her into giving up custody of her children,forced her to tell her son that she did not love him,put an imposter with a criminal record in her home as her husband and parent to their children and this does not include the things Stefano and Kristen have done to members of her immediate family including her beloved twin brother.I am trying to understand why Abby gets a lot of criticism others do not even though they have engaged or are engaging in behavior that is much worse. |
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| DayDreamer | Feb 3 2014, 06:29 PM Post #226 |
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Fan of EJ+ABBY!
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Yes, but I think Abby is a bit blind when it comes to EJ. I think really has fallen for EJ and therefore are able to turn a blind side - heck she might even find it exciting to be with a bad man. She did say its like I turn of a switch. She knows that he is bad and engaged to someone else, but she still wants him. EJ have to be with a woman that are willing to look the other side when it comes to the "crimes" or "bad" things he does. Its been clear for months - even years before that - Sami is definitely not going to do that. Perhaps because the bad things is affecting her family - but I think its also because Sami can't separate EJ from his family. If someone from EJs family does something - EJ must be involved or he can betray his family to help her etc. The idea that Sami is bad and therefore Ej and her are perfect dosen't work here anymore. Their history is just to bad for them to be realistically a good villain couple. Because EJ cheated on Sami with Abby - I personally no longer think that EJ and Sami is good for each other. Life moves on. What I am seeing between EJ and Abby is exciting. I like it since Abby is Jack's daughter and Abby is a Horton. I want to see drama between the Horton and Dimera. I see potential for this to be a real story about love and lust. They could write this potentially as the families clash because of Abbys love for EJ and vice versa. They tried to write this with Sami - but my problem is with Sami she never seemed to love EJ as much as EJ loved Sami. Ahh.. babbling here.. I could probably say more but I will stop here. |
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| esp13 | Feb 3 2014, 06:33 PM Post #227 |
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I agree on both counts with Sami and Abby. First off, I can't for the life of me figure out why, after forgiving EJ for all he has done, she is still holding the Kristen/Eric thing against him. It's just dumb. And, if she really is that mad about it, she wouldn't be just keeping him at arm's length. She'd have moved out, given back his ring, and would probably be helping Daniel and Nicole. If nothing else, she'd be pretending to forgive him in the hopes of getting him to slip up. The last thing she'd be doing is just . . . nothing. As for Abby, I could (had it been set up this way at all) buy this as a sexual exploration where she feels in control after having had that control taken away by Chad's manipulations. The problem is that I have to believe that Abby either doesn't know or has forgotten the crimes EJ committed against her family and that makes me kind of hate her. I don't have a lot of respect for someone who decides that getting a little action means more than years of torture, kidnappings, and attempted killings. I mean she still holds a grudge against Nicole (and hates Theresa) for what she did to Jennifer and that was nothing compared to what EJ has done. Even at that, I might have been able to ignore that major issue if she hadn't ripped into Adrienne today. And what's worse is that ignoring all these things also ignores what could be the best part of the story. They did it with EJ and Sami insta-forgiving each other and now they are doing it with Abby. If they want to go that route, why not have her kind of hate herself for being attracted to the sociopath? Adrienne could have defended herself and we could see Abby conflicted. Maybe she even confronts EJ about it and that could give EJ a chance to show some remorse or not show remorse, whatever. If this EJ/Abby thing is just about sex, then she can despise him and still screw him. It just has to be acknowledged, not ignored. |
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| BeeBee | Feb 3 2014, 06:35 PM Post #228 |
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Its as if they are giving Maggie's scenes to Adrienne.I don't have a problem with it because someone has to get the airtime to move the plot along and it makes more sense that Adrienne would play a bigger role in Abby and JJ's life than Maggie.Its not as if Adrienne saw EJ and Abby and went running to Jennifer.When Jennifer told Adrienne she was worried about Abby and why,it made sense that Adrienne would tell Jennifer what she had seen.It made sense that Justin would ask his wife to give her nephew the news about his case.I just want Judi to be on screen until they find more for her and Justin to do.I expect them to play a bigger role once the engagement/ wedding take place. Now if they would give Kayla some of the material they are giving to Daniel until there is something for her to do,I would be happy. Edited by BeeBee, Feb 3 2014, 08:54 PM.
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| tomsawyer | Feb 3 2014, 06:38 PM Post #229 |
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If Abby is supposed to be a completely self-centered person whose only concern is what impacts her, then that argument might be a good one. But since she's has been and continues to be written as someone who loves and is concerned about what happens to her family, then that idea is completely at odds with who her character is supposed to be. |
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| esp13 | Feb 3 2014, 06:40 PM Post #230 |
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Abby is held to a higher standard than Sami because she's Abby, not Sami. Sami is, historically, a total screw up and, depending on your point of view, full on evil. Abby is, historically, a good person who has made some mistakes. Besides which, Sami has received plenty of criticism for all those things mentioned. Many people hated her when she cheated on Rafe. Many people have called her on being with a man who committed all of those crimes against her and her family (including me). Many, many people criticized EJ for sleeping with Taylor (including me). There isn't a double standard going on, at least not the way you think there is. Sami has never been written (at least for all that long) to be a good person who makes good decisions. Abby, generally, has. It's why a Brady who breaks the law is raked over the coals, but if a Dimera or Kiriakis does the same thing, it's just what they do. That's how the characters have been developed and the difference standards should apply. |
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| TreasureCove | Feb 3 2014, 06:42 PM Post #231 |
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It's because they made Sami so stupid that she would bend over for him that others can't go into what EJ's done to them. It's a poor attempt at making the audience believe that Sami isn't soulless moron, she's a smart, savvy, supermom ya'll, EJ's just misunderstood. It's why he can get away with dressing down Hope, making himself out to be a better father than Lucas, and smirking or being rude to Kayla while they just stand there and take it. |
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| tomsawyer | Feb 3 2014, 06:44 PM Post #232 |
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All of the characters you mention have been criticized for all the actions you mention, repeatedly. Seriously, I think I could fill a few books there's been so much criticism for all those things. |
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| DayDreamer | Feb 3 2014, 06:45 PM Post #233 |
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Fan of EJ+ABBY!
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I have to say I am not big fan of that white thingy she is wearing. Its looks weird...? |
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| elci525 | Feb 3 2014, 06:50 PM Post #234 |
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Yeah it totally does. I love her dress though - she's giving some cleavage for EJ's benefit (perhaps a subconscious factor informing her outfit choice that morning) and the skirt is cute. |
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| BeeBee | Feb 3 2014, 06:53 PM Post #235 |
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Sami has been written out of character since the cheating and overlooking what EJ has done to her personally.I agree if they wanted to put Sami and EJ together,they could have written them talking over and working past problems. Based on Abby going after Austin while he was as far as she knew was happily married,I don't see Abby as out of character for having an affair wtih EJ.He is not married and she has a strong sexual attraction to him and she knows he feels the same way about her. |
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| Tripp | Feb 3 2014, 06:53 PM Post #236 |
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Geekette
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Adrienne bringing up all of this doesn't work because Justin pretty much ended the stalemate the Johnsons had with EJ as soon as he teamed up with him to bring down Stefano. Now, had they used Kayla for this conversation, she could have driven the point clearer. She has not made any truce in relation to EJ and she actually has suffered directly by the hands of EJ thanks to torturing/control of Steve and the kidnapping of her daughter. As for Abigail not holding EJ's crimes against him. Unfortunately, they don't like to bring up how Abby is part of the Johnson family. When they describe her, she's a Horton or "Jack's daughter" (which seems to separate Jack from the Johnsons more). That bugs me a lot and I really hope if they continue with Ejabby we see a Johnson side to her. With Adrienne, Abby, JJ, and Sonny in town, we should not ignore the Johnson family that is in Salem. So I wouldn't be surprised, if they chose to say Abigail was ignorant of EJ's exact crimes, just that he's a "bad man". Finally, a lot of this came up when she began dating Chad. She had to get over the Dimera side of him (even though he wasn't brought directly in the family) and she had to realize in doing so her path would cross with the Dimera clan, especially since EJ was so close to his brother. As for Sami being upset with EJ over Eric, no I have to think she has every right to be. Jesus, this show pisses me off so much when it comes to rape. I know that EJ didn't help plan the RAPE of Eric (and humilation) with Kristen. But he damn well knows enough to vindicate her dear brother (who Sami loves next to her own children). Instead of giving that evidence over, he keeps it to himself, for a sister he barely knows. What's worse, is he's snarked on Eric, making fun of the victim. So personally I think when the truth comes out that EJ helped cover up the evidence, Sami has ever right to be furious with EJ over that. |
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| DayDreamer | Feb 3 2014, 06:53 PM Post #237 |
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Fan of EJ+ABBY!
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Yeah.. but isn't it boring with all good persons in Horton family? I applauds them for letting Abby getting her hands dirty - so to speak - and become a bit greyish, like her father before her. I think we all (well some of us) was complaining that she was boring etc. This way things get more interesting. I am more than willing to overlook that because she is as we stated young. She is now starting to form a life for her. How she chooses to live the life is up to her. If she wants bad wolf EJ in her life I am not going to judge her. She must realise though that that kind of life requires that she is grey - but she seems willing to accept it. I actually think opposite can attract and work very well. |
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| Amanda_gayle | Feb 3 2014, 06:54 PM Post #238 |
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Well I'm just speaking for myself. As I said in another post, I have watched on and off since I was 14 and I'm 38 now. With that said, I missed a lot of the torment they (ejami) did to each other. I have only read it. Some people watched every bit if it, and you may feel strongly because you watched it as it happened. I don't hate Abby, I've only known her as j&j's baby daughter. (I remember preggo jenn). So I see her going against what I believe she is. As far as Sami, I remember her as a bad girl, just as I remember EJ as son if Satan Stefano. To me Lucas is too good for Sami, and Rafe as well. So I guess my point is that i don't push aside the past, I am just basing my feelings on what I remember the characters to be. Maybe my opinion would be completely different if I saw it first hand. I could be wrong, but based on the people I have spoken with, it seems like a similar theme. It just depends in when you started watching. I just don't get how people get so angry and nasty at each other (especially tweeters) over their difference of opinion. It's just a tv show. I swear some people believe it's real. but I LOVE reading and discussing it in this forum! So much fun!!! Thanks DR!! Edited by Amanda_gayle, Feb 3 2014, 07:03 PM.
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| esp13 | Feb 3 2014, 07:01 PM Post #239 |
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Sigh. It's not the affair that is out of character. Austin was not, to the best of my knowledge, responsible for torturing Abby's uncle, kidnapping her cousin, blackmailing another cousin, and attempting to murder her aunt (to name just a few items). I don't even care about the affair/sex stuff. I don't find somebody being sexual, even in affair, to be a great moral failing. Especially when Abby isn't the one cheating on anyone, EJ is. What is out of character, to me, is that a woman who seems to hold serious grudges has no issues with the man who has caused her family so much pain. And, sorry Tripp, but I don't see this as anything close to Chad because Chad didn't do anything to anyone. Well, he did spill the beans at Gabi's wedding, and Abby was PISSED at him for a long time. So clearly, interrupting a wedding is far worse than torture, kidnapping, or attempted murder. That's what is fucked up about this stuff. And that's what I hate about history being completely ignored. It makes me hate characters that I might otherwise like. Oh, and yes Sami has a right to be angry at EJ. Given her history, it surprises me a little, but sure she can be angry. What I don't buy is her passivity. |
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| tomsawyer | Feb 3 2014, 07:10 PM Post #240 |
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There is no end of the stalemate with EJ and the Johnsons because Adrienne never forgave him. She has always hated EJ, especially since he threatened her safety last summer. Even Justin who was temporarily okay with working with EJ has renounced him now too. So no, the Johnson hatred of EJ is very much in tact. Saying that Abby already crossed the DiMera line with Chad doesn't hold any weight because it's not EJ's name that is the issue. It's what EJ has actually done. He brainwashed and mind controlled Abby's uncle into committing crimes. He kidnapped Abby's cousin and nearly got her killed - a cousin with whom Abby has a really close relationship. It's ridiculous that I'm supposed to buy that somebody as family-oriented as Abby doesn't know or doesn't care about these things. And I agree that Sami has every reason for being mad at EJ. My problem is that she's not doing anything either way about it. Sami is not a character who dithers. Simply stated, Sami does shit. Sometimes it's smart, sometimes it's dumb. But inaction on Sami's part is completely out of character. |
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