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Spoilers for the Week April 7th; *updated 3/31*
Topic Started: Mar 26 2014, 10:39 AM (30,054 Views)
jam6242
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I don't think we would have seen the christening on screen if there hadn't been some conflict surrounding it though. That's the point of those type of events on a soap. And it was only an interrogation because the parties involved had done something wrong.
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sillibella
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Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 02:33 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:34 PM
sillibella
Apr 8 2014, 02:34 AM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:40 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Caring about a family member, of course, is not wrong. Making Ari's christening a way to get info about Nick (all the while knowingly making numerous people uncomfortable as hell) and making a dramatic scene directly afterwards was classless as hell, especially when her sister, a cop, told her a few times to cool it because she was going to take care of it. Julie was just determined to be dramatic about it all and she got her way. It has become a tired way with her.

Now she is all upset because Nick didn't get an invite to a wedding she didn't bother showing up to either. Whatever. I might start caring about her crazy opinions when her blind devotion to Nick comes to an end. Til then she might as well stay gone. :yawnz:
Re the bolded: She might have said that, but she wasn't really doing anything substantial at the time. She was totally OK with having a good time at the Christening without any care for what can be happening to Nick right at that moment she is enjoying herself so nicely whatsoever. So again, I don't fault Julie for being insistent and trying to get things moving. Moreover I think it made Hope look bad that she wasn't more concerned. It's not like Ariana wouldn't have gotten christened if Hope wasn't there.

I, on the other hand, am glad that at least someone in that family cares about Nick. It's not like Will needs even more people in his corner ... Still, nobody (not even Julie) seems to truly put the time in and really try to help Nick at all.

Edit: I want to add that I don't care one iota if Julie "made numerous people uncomfortable as hell" with her inquiries. Those were all people who either almost killed Nick by drowning him (plus the "almost" part doesn't go to their credit) and/or were perfectly OK with killing him, so fuck them.
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless. Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day. Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.

The idea that no one in the family cares for Nick is laughable. Will ended up in a hospital bed trying to rescue Nick despite what Nick did to him. Maggie has been and still is a supporter of his, hence Victor's dislike of Nick since he knows Nick is just fooling her about who he really is. She has repeatedly tried to get him to see someone. Hope, said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention. Not even enough to question why Kate, whom she knows does not like Nick would rehire him. Julie, finds fault in everyone, but Nick and only even entertains good thoughts of him. Abigail was even willing to take up the cause of it being unfair that he was not invited to the wedding of his victims, and she is well aware that Nick treated Will and Sonny wrong. I would hesitate to say that Nick has been abandoned by his family and they don't care about him.

As far as almost killing Nick, nothing shown on the screen suggested that anyone save Kate was perfectly OK with killing him. The story we were shown was that Gabi, Kate, and Sami thought that Gabi had killed Nick while trying to prevent him from raping her. To keep her from getting into trouble they then had the ridiculous idea of putting his body in the river so that no one would know what she had done. Upon putting him in the water he revived, they panicked, and in trying to get him off of Sami they end up drowning him in the river. As I remember Gabi and Sami were bothered to the point of having nightmares and hallucinating that they were seeing him. Kate is the only one that beginning to end seemed to take it in stride. Sonny and Will argued that he did not deserve to die and that his family had a right to know what had happened to him, Sonny even went as far as getting advice from his father. They kept quiet to protect Gabi, Sami, and Kate, and for Ari. Nothing in all of those events said they were perfectly OK with killing him. There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him". This does not excuse what happened, but it at least characterizes what happened accurately.
:thumbsup: Well said.
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WilSonJAb33
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sillibella
Apr 8 2014, 02:42 PM
Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 02:33 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:34 PM
sillibella
Apr 8 2014, 02:34 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepespecially when her sister, a cop, told her a few times to cool it because she was going to take care of it. Julie was just determined to be dramatic about it all and she got her way. It has become a tired way with her.

Now she is all upset because Nick didn't get an invite to a wedding she didn't bother showing up to either. Whatever. I might start caring about her crazy opinions when her blind devotion to Nick comes to an end. Til then she might as well stay gone. :yawnz:
Re the bolded: She might have said that, but she wasn't really doing anything substantial at the time. She was totally OK with having a good time at the Christening without any care for what can be happening to Nick right at that moment she is enjoying herself so nicely whatsoever. So again, I don't fault Julie for being insistent and trying to get things moving. Moreover I think it made Hope look bad that she wasn't more concerned. It's not like Ariana wouldn't have gotten christened if Hope wasn't there.

I, on the other hand, am glad that at least someone in that family cares about Nick. It's not like Will needs even more people in his corner ... Still, nobody (not even Julie) seems to truly put the time in and really try to help Nick at all.

Edit: I want to add that I don't care one iota if Julie "made numerous people uncomfortable as hell" with her inquiries. Those were all people who either almost killed Nick by drowning him (plus the "almost" part doesn't go to their credit) and/or were perfectly OK with killing him, so fuck them.
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless. Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day. Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.

The idea that no one in the family cares for Nick is laughable. Will ended up in a hospital bed trying to rescue Nick despite what Nick did to him. Maggie has been and still is a supporter of his, hence Victor's dislike of Nick since he knows Nick is just fooling her about who he really is. She has repeatedly tried to get him to see someone. Hope, said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention. Not even enough to question why Kate, whom she knows does not like Nick would rehire him. Julie, finds fault in everyone, but Nick and only even entertains good thoughts of him. Abigail was even willing to take up the cause of it being unfair that he was not invited to the wedding of his victims, and she is well aware that Nick treated Will and Sonny wrong. I would hesitate to say that Nick has been abandoned by his family and they don't care about him.

As far as almost killing Nick, nothing shown on the screen suggested that anyone save Kate was perfectly OK with killing him. The story we were shown was that Gabi, Kate, and Sami thought that Gabi had killed Nick while trying to prevent him from raping her. To keep her from getting into trouble they then had the ridiculous idea of putting his body in the river so that no one would know what she had done. Upon putting him in the water he revived, they panicked, and in trying to get him off of Sami they end up drowning him in the river. As I remember Gabi and Sami were bothered to the point of having nightmares and hallucinating that they were seeing him. Kate is the only one that beginning to end seemed to take it in stride. Sonny and Will argued that he did not deserve to die and that his family had a right to know what had happened to him, Sonny even went as far as getting advice from his father. They kept quiet to protect Gabi, Sami, and Kate, and for Ari. Nothing in all of those events said they were perfectly OK with killing him. There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him". This does not excuse what happened, but it at least characterizes what happened accurately.
:thumbsup: Well said.
exactly Will & Sonny as you said even had issues with it and the were mostly on the outside of the situation for the stand point that they only over heard what happened they were actual down at the river when it occurred and still they had a problem with it despite what Nick did to them.

Gabi was basically almost to the point of being considered in a mental unstable state of mind because of what happened and freaking out

Sami had the nightmares


Kate was the only one with the reaction I didn't get when you think about it... Kate was too level headed about the entire thing.
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Ghani
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jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
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Angelsmile


Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
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jam6242
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Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
It's not enough just to have a one-time talk with him. Someone needs to follow up and make sure he's getting help. Maggie doesn't have a problem nagging everyone who takes a drink or drugs. Julie is rarely in town so she really doesn't have an opportunity to be completely on top of things. I don't understand why alcoholics and drug addicts can get sympathy and encouragement to get help (or at least tough love) but someone who is mentally ill just gets scolded or have derogatory names thrown at him? :shrug:
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sillibella
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Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
Why would Nick want help? He's getting everything he wants by manipulating people. He has his job back and his ex-wife falling for his crap yet again. Nick never wants help until he gets humiliated and hits rock bottom, as do many people, tbh. Once his life gets obliterated yet again, I'm sure he'll start crying for help. Give it time, it might as well be written in the stars...
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Kaha
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Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
But Julie is not showing him any concern. She's a classic enabler. She pretends everything is fine and nothing is amiss. Gabi was practically on the verge of having a nervous breakdown and yet Julie is not curious why is Gabi so jittery and nervous when she mentions Nick. She's still acting as though Nick is fine and he has no issues. She buys all of his bullshit without any question. She's not curious about anything that's going on with him. She encourages his obsession with Gabi. I think Hope has shown that she cares about him. She encouraged him a number of times to seek help, she tells him the hard truth while showing him her love. She's a demonstration of what a true caring family member is.

About the other issues, and this is not particularly a reply to you but in general. Julie's behavior at the Christening was crass and appalling. There's a time and a place for everything. It's not like she lost touch with Nick at that moment or she was told he was missing. She received few weird texts that didn't sound like him and she pieced together something was wrong. She didn't know anyone who was at the party knew about Nick's disappearance or had anything to do with it. The audience knew, but Julie didn't know, yet she felt it was okay to hijack a little girl's christening for her precious Nick.
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Angelsmile


jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 04:01 PM
Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
It's not enough just to have a one-time talk with him. Someone needs to follow up and make sure he's getting help. Maggie doesn't have a problem nagging everyone who takes a drink or drugs. Julie is rarely in town so she really doesn't have an opportunity to be completely on top of things. I don't understand why alcoholics and drug addicts can get sympathy and encouragement to get help (or at least tough love) but someone who is mentally ill just gets scolded or have derogatory names thrown at him? :shrug:
Actually, I can remember at least three episodes where Maggie was following up about Nick getting help. It's neither here nor there, you can only help someone that is willing to accept it. I personally would not classify Nick as mentally ill. He is troubled and has issues, but he is well in control of his mental faculties. Truly mentally ill people cannot control their own thought process, much less read and manipulate others. This is my personal non-medical opinion, but my personal experience with mental illness would lead me not to classify Nick as such.
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Ghani
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Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 02:33 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:34 PM
sillibella
Apr 8 2014, 02:34 AM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:40 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Caring about a family member, of course, is not wrong. Making Ari's christening a way to get info about Nick (all the while knowingly making numerous people uncomfortable as hell) and making a dramatic scene directly afterwards was classless as hell, especially when her sister, a cop, told her a few times to cool it because she was going to take care of it. Julie was just determined to be dramatic about it all and she got her way. It has become a tired way with her.

Now she is all upset because Nick didn't get an invite to a wedding she didn't bother showing up to either. Whatever. I might start caring about her crazy opinions when her blind devotion to Nick comes to an end. Til then she might as well stay gone. :yawnz:
Re the bolded: She might have said that, but she wasn't really doing anything substantial at the time. She was totally OK with having a good time at the Christening without any care for what can be happening to Nick right at that moment she is enjoying herself so nicely whatsoever. So again, I don't fault Julie for being insistent and trying to get things moving. Moreover I think it made Hope look bad that she wasn't more concerned. It's not like Ariana wouldn't have gotten christened if Hope wasn't there.

I, on the other hand, am glad that at least someone in that family cares about Nick. It's not like Will needs even more people in his corner ... Still, nobody (not even Julie) seems to truly put the time in and really try to help Nick at all.

Edit: I want to add that I don't care one iota if Julie "made numerous people uncomfortable as hell" with her inquiries. Those were all people who either almost killed Nick by drowning him (plus the "almost" part doesn't go to their credit) and/or were perfectly OK with killing him, so fuck them.
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless. Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day. Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.

The idea that no one in the family cares for Nick is laughable. Will ended up in a hospital bed trying to rescue Nick despite what Nick did to him. Maggie has been and still is a supporter of his, hence Victor's dislike of Nick since he knows Nick is just fooling her about who he really is. She has repeatedly tried to get him to see someone. Hope, said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention. Not even enough to question why Kate, whom she knows does not like Nick would rehire him. Julie, finds fault in everyone, but Nick and only even entertains good thoughts of him. Abigail was even willing to take up the cause of it being unfair that he was not invited to the wedding of his victims, and she is well aware that Nick treated Will and Sonny wrong. I would hesitate to say that Nick has been abandoned by his family and they don't care about him.

As far as almost killing Nick, nothing shown on the screen suggested that anyone save Kate was perfectly OK with killing him. The story we were shown was that Gabi, Kate, and Sami thought that Gabi had killed Nick while trying to prevent him from raping her. To keep her from getting into trouble they then had the ridiculous idea of putting his body in the river so that no one would know what she had done. Upon putting him in the water he revived, they panicked, and in trying to get him off of Sami they end up drowning him in the river. As I remember Gabi and Sami were bothered to the point of having nightmares and hallucinating that they were seeing him. Kate is the only one that beginning to end seemed to take it in stride. Sonny and Will argued that he did not deserve to die and that his family had a right to know what had happened to him, Sonny even went as far as getting advice from his father. They kept quiet to protect Gabi, Sami, and Kate, and for Ari. Nothing in all of those events said they were perfectly OK with killing him. There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him". This does not excuse what happened, but it at least characterizes what happened accurately.
Quote:
 
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless.
Not when someone's life might hang in the ballance, no.

Quote:
 
Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day.
As far as they knew every minute/second could have counted and she was totally OK to sit on her butt and do nothing at all.

Quote:
 
Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.
It would have served the purpose of doing at least something. When she didn't want to question the people at the christening she could have tried to look for Nick some other way, e.g. at the station where she has police resources at her disposal, until a time she deemed it "appropriate" to question the relevant people after the christening.

Quote:
 
Hope said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention.
Exactly. She doesn't care.

Quote:
 
There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him".
And? :shrug: I didn't say they were glad or happy that they killed him. I said they were OK with it. There's a difference. (I'll give you that not all of them were perfectly OK with it, but they were definitely OK with it in the end, otherwise they would have done something about it other than make sure that nobody found out what happened.)
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Ghani
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Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
Many abuse and rape victims don't want help because they think they can deal with what happened to them alone. They almost never can. So should we just let them be and say that it's all on them when they refuse to listen? Really? Or is this stance reserved just for Nick? He is clearly lying that he is getting therapy bacause he would rather forget what happened to him than open that wound again and deal with the horrors. That is also common behaviour among abuse and rape victims. But when it's Nick it's all on him? Nobody should care enough to make sure he really is getting the therapy he says he is getting? Nobody should care enough to be persistent and make him see that he is not OK and that he needs to deal with what happened to him? :shame:
Quote:
 
In any case, Nick has been shown much concern.
I totally disagree. He has been shown some concern, but not much and not nearly enough.
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Angelsmile


Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 04:27 PM
Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 02:33 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 01:34 PM
sillibella
Apr 8 2014, 02:34 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepespecially when her sister, a cop, told her a few times to cool it because she was going to take care of it. Julie was just determined to be dramatic about it all and she got her way. It has become a tired way with her.

Now she is all upset because Nick didn't get an invite to a wedding she didn't bother showing up to either. Whatever. I might start caring about her crazy opinions when her blind devotion to Nick comes to an end. Til then she might as well stay gone. :yawnz:
Re the bolded: She might have said that, but she wasn't really doing anything substantial at the time. She was totally OK with having a good time at the Christening without any care for what can be happening to Nick right at that moment she is enjoying herself so nicely whatsoever. So again, I don't fault Julie for being insistent and trying to get things moving. Moreover I think it made Hope look bad that she wasn't more concerned. It's not like Ariana wouldn't have gotten christened if Hope wasn't there.

I, on the other hand, am glad that at least someone in that family cares about Nick. It's not like Will needs even more people in his corner ... Still, nobody (not even Julie) seems to truly put the time in and really try to help Nick at all.

Edit: I want to add that I don't care one iota if Julie "made numerous people uncomfortable as hell" with her inquiries. Those were all people who either almost killed Nick by drowning him (plus the "almost" part doesn't go to their credit) and/or were perfectly OK with killing him, so fuck them.
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless. Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day. Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.

The idea that no one in the family cares for Nick is laughable. Will ended up in a hospital bed trying to rescue Nick despite what Nick did to him. Maggie has been and still is a supporter of his, hence Victor's dislike of Nick since he knows Nick is just fooling her about who he really is. She has repeatedly tried to get him to see someone. Hope, said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention. Not even enough to question why Kate, whom she knows does not like Nick would rehire him. Julie, finds fault in everyone, but Nick and only even entertains good thoughts of him. Abigail was even willing to take up the cause of it being unfair that he was not invited to the wedding of his victims, and she is well aware that Nick treated Will and Sonny wrong. I would hesitate to say that Nick has been abandoned by his family and they don't care about him.

As far as almost killing Nick, nothing shown on the screen suggested that anyone save Kate was perfectly OK with killing him. The story we were shown was that Gabi, Kate, and Sami thought that Gabi had killed Nick while trying to prevent him from raping her. To keep her from getting into trouble they then had the ridiculous idea of putting his body in the river so that no one would know what she had done. Upon putting him in the water he revived, they panicked, and in trying to get him off of Sami they end up drowning him in the river. As I remember Gabi and Sami were bothered to the point of having nightmares and hallucinating that they were seeing him. Kate is the only one that beginning to end seemed to take it in stride. Sonny and Will argued that he did not deserve to die and that his family had a right to know what had happened to him, Sonny even went as far as getting advice from his father. They kept quiet to protect Gabi, Sami, and Kate, and for Ari. Nothing in all of those events said they were perfectly OK with killing him. There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him". This does not excuse what happened, but it at least characterizes what happened accurately.
Quote:
 
The fact of the matter is that they were attending a special occasion for Ari. No matter how you look at it, turning a christening into an interrogation, or trying to, is tactless and classless.
Not when someone's life might hang in the ballance, no.

Quote:
 
Hope asked her to wait until after the christening, not until the next week or even the next day.
As far as they knew every minute/second could have counted and she was totally OK to sit on her butt and do nothing at all.

Quote:
 
Since everyone Hope wanted to talk to was there, Hope not being there would have served no purpose.
It would have served the purpose of doing at least something. When she didn't want to question the people at the christening she could have tried to look for Nick some other way, e.g. at the station where she has police resources at her disposal, until a time she deemed it "appropriate" to question the relevant people after the christening.

Quote:
 
Hope said she wasn't going to give him a free pass and would be keeping an eye on him, but has thus far paid no attention.
Exactly. She doesn't care.

Quote:
 
There were no celebrations over the death of Nick, no happy dances, no declarations of "glad we killed him".
And? :shrug: I didn't say they were glad or happy that they killed him. I said they were OK with it. There's a difference. (I'll give you that not all of them were perfectly OK with it, but they were definitely OK with it in the end, otherwise they would have done something about it other than make sure that nobody found out what happened.)
To be fair, there was nothing in the story that supported the idea of a life or death situation. Nick's phone was off and his texts sounded strange. Maybe there was cause for concern, but no reason to feel his life was in danger. On Nick's lack of caring family and misunderstood status I think we will have to agree to disagree. I will never buy Nick as a victim since that is not what has been shown and I am not willing to infer motives to his actions. He has manipulated, blackmailed, and lorded it over everyone in order to have everything his way. I might recognize that his rape in prison was wrong, that he is troubled by it, and that he has obsessive tendencies, but his choice to continue on his criminal course and not seek or accept help and change leaves me feeling no sorrow for him. I actually bought into his redemption after the shooting. I even think he might have stayed on the straight and narrow had Gabi not used him to stop feeling lonely and to have that sex she was missing. In any case, he is making the choice to still cause havoc in people's lives and blackmail to get what he wants. So I will save my compassion for his victims and wait for it all to come tumbling down.
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Angelsmile


Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 04:51 PM
Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 03:29 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 01:57 PM
I'm glad that someone is showing some concern for Nick too. I'd just rather see Julie having a heart-to-heart with Nick instead of talking to Sami about the wedding.
I totally agree with this. It sucks that nobody in that family cares enough to talk thoroughly to Nick and make sure he gets the help he needs. :shame:
Unfortunately, Nick does not want help. After the shooting all we had were scenes of Maggie trying to talk thoroughly to him and make sure he got help. He is the one that did not listen and would not see anyone. He forestalled all of that this time by telling them he was seeing someone and all the truths he had realized and come to through his therapy. Of course, he is lying. I am not sure if it is purposely or if he is truly deluded enough to consider conversations with a bird watcher as therapy. In any case, Nick has been shown much concern. The fact that he refuses to listen to it or be moved by it is all on him.
Many abuse and rape victims don't want help because they think they can deal with what happened to them alone. They almost never can. So should we just let them be and say that it's all on them when they refuse to listen? Really? Or is this stance reserved just for Nick? He is clearly lying that he is getting therapy bacause he would rather forget what happened to him than open that wound again and deal with the horrors. That is also common behaviour among abuse and rape victims. But when it's Nick it's all on him? Nobody should care enough to make sure he really is getting the therapy he says he is getting? Nobody should care enough to be persistent and make him see that he is not OK and that he needs to deal with what happened to him? :shame:
Quote:
 
In any case, Nick has been shown much concern.
I totally disagree. He has been shown some concern, but not much and not nearly enough.
Once again, I think we will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, abuse and rape victims are 100% responsible for their own actions, not just the fictional character of Nick. We can understand the contributing factors to their actions, but in the end they are their actions. That it is a common reaction that they do not seek out or accept help does not change the fact that they cannot be helped until they do seek out or accept it. They cannot be made to get help even with constant talk. The most anyone can do is encourage and hope they come to the realization that they need help on their own.

That said, I know the points you are arguing, but it is hard to buy when that is not what we have been shown. Nick the traumatized rape and abuse victim was shown for a few episodes. This person that you are describing as acting from a place hurt over what happened to him is not what is being shown on the screen. The Nick we have seen has even resorted to attempted rape himself and has made nonchalant asides about Will experiencing prison rape. While if this were a character I related to maybe I could attribute these feelings and emotions to him as reasons for his actions, since I do not relate to him and that is not what is showing on the screen it is hard for me to overlook all his actions based on this. So I totally hear you I just can't agree.
Edited by Angelsmile, Apr 8 2014, 05:27 PM.
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nananana7
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Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 04:51 PM
Many abuse and rape victims don't want help because they think they can deal with what happened to them alone. They almost never can. So should we just let them be and say that it's all on them when they refuse to listen? Really? Or is this stance reserved just for Nick? He is clearly lying that he is getting therapy because he would rather forget what happened to him than open that wound again and deal with the horrors. That is also common behaviour among abuse and rape victims. But when it's Nick it's all on him? Nobody should care enough to make sure he really is getting the therapy he says he is getting? Nobody should care enough to be persistent and make him see that he is not OK and that he needs to deal with what happened to him? :shame:
Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 03:55 PM
In any case, Nick has been shown much concern.
Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 04:51 PM
I totally disagree. He has been shown some concern, but not much and not nearly enough.


Angelsmile
Apr 8 2014, 05:26 PM
Once again, I think we will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, abuse and rape victims are 100% responsible for their own actions, not just the fictional character of Nick. We can understand the contributing factors to their actions, but in the end they are their actions. That it is a common reaction that they do not seek out or accept help does not change the fact that they cannot be helped until they do seek out or accept it. They cannot be made to get help even with constant talk. The most anyone can do is encourage and hope they come to the realization that they need help on their own.

That said, I know the points you are arguing, but it is hard to buy when that is not what we have been shown. Nick the traumatized rape and abuse victim was shown for a few episodes. This person that you are describing as acting from a place hurt over what happened to him is not what is being shown on the screen. The Nick we have seen has even resorted to attempted rape himself and has made nonchalant asides about Will experiencing prison rape. While if this were a character I related to maybe I could attribute these feelings and emotions to him as reasons for his actions, since I do not relate to him and that is not what is showing on the screen it is hard for me to overlook all his actions based on this. So I totally hear you I just can't agree.


I agree especially with the last paragraph I've quoted here. The "victim Nick" is not the character we are seeing.

I myself am a rape victim, but I don't channel aggression at others. I got real help and healing. I am responsible for my life and how I treat others.

In my opinion:

Nick is a manipulative sociopath* who has totally told everyone that he's already in therapy -- and he knows exactly what to say to Julie, Hope, and Gabi, to get them to think he's sincere.

But he's totally insincere. He's playing everyone, and getting thrills out of playing everyone.

*sociopath as defined in this discussion on page 9 of the April 14 spoilers thread:
http://daytimeroyaltyonline.com/topic/9084340/9/#post9108778
Edited by nananana7, Apr 8 2014, 05:51 PM.
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jam6242
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I guess I just see Nick as a whole person, not just the person he has become since he was in prison. I can't forget the good things he previously did for various people in Salem.

And if not for the music played during Nick's scenes, we really wouldn't know that Nick was up to anything more sinister than having a job and finding love with Gabi. It would be a great twist for me if Nick somehow turned out to be the hero in this story but I know that's not to be under the circumstances.

I also have sympathy for Nick because he hasn't had anyone really love him fully in a romantic way. And neither has Gabi. I think that's another reason she's drawn to him.
Edited by jam6242, Apr 8 2014, 06:05 PM.
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nananana7
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jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 06:00 PM
he hasn't had anyone really love him fully in a romantic way.

That's how my rapist tried to excuse his behavior.

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Ghani
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jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 06:00 PM
I guess I just see Nick as a whole person, not just the person he has become since he was in prison. I can't forget the good things he previously did for various people in Salem.

And if not for the music played during Nick's scenes, we really wouldn't know that Nick was up to anything more sinister than having a job and finding love with Gabi. It would be a great twist for me if Nick somehow turned out to be the hero in this story but I know that's not to be under the circumstances.

I also have sympathy for Nick because he hasn't had anyone really love him fully in a romantic way. And neither has Gabi. I think that's another reason she's drawn to him.
I totally agree with all of this.

Quote:
 
And if not for the music played during Nick's scenes, we really wouldn't know that Nick was up to anything more sinister than having a job and finding love with Gabi. It would be a great twist for me if Nick somehow turned out to be the hero in this story but I know that's not to be under the circumstances.
Exactly. Someone up thread mentioned Nick supposedly still wrecking havoc in everyones lives. What havoc? He hasn't done much so far. He got his old job back, he got back together with Gabi and he made tons of money for Kate ...
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Ghani
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nananana7
Apr 8 2014, 06:11 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 06:00 PM
he hasn't had anyone really love him fully in a romantic way.
That's how my rapist tried to excuse his behavior.
I am very sorry you were raped, but I don't think jam6242 meant it as any kind of excuse for Nick's behaviour, rather as one of the reasons she is rooting for him. At least that is how I understood it and why I agreed.
Edited by Ghani, Apr 8 2014, 06:40 PM.
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jam6242
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Ghani
Apr 8 2014, 06:24 PM
nananana7
Apr 8 2014, 06:11 PM
jam6242
Apr 8 2014, 06:00 PM
he hasn't had anyone really love him fully in a romantic way.

That's how my rapist tried to excuse his behavior.

I am very sorry you were raped, but I don't think jam6242 meant it as any kind of excuse for Nick's behaviour, rather as one of the reasons she is rooting for him. At least that is how I understood it and why I agreed.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
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BeeBee
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Kaha
Apr 8 2014, 06:39 AM
BeeBee
Apr 8 2014, 12:04 AM
Kaha
Apr 7 2014, 11:17 PM
BeeBee
Apr 7 2014, 10:58 PM

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They don't know the full details or what he has on Will but they know he pressured Will and manipulated Gabi. As I've mentioned before, Rafe knows Nick was blackmailing Will and he didn't ask any details. Victor called Nick an extortionist when he kicked him out of his house. It was right after everyone found out about Nick.
The only purpose of my post was to question as a statement of fact that Julie and Hope know that Niick was blackmailing Will into giving up custody of Arianna or into doing anything else.No more no less.Julie is on screen less than Roman and has limited plot point dialogue.I am trying to understand how Julie would have personal knowlege of all Nick blackmailing Will or his homophobic slur to Sonny.No one has posted anything that unequivocally proves Julie or Hope know that Nick was blackmailing Will in order to have Will give up his parental rights to Arianna or his homophotbic slur nor am I persuaded by what I have read that Maggie or Victor know this.These are the only points I am making not whether Nick is a bad person or whether Hope and Julie should closely monitor Nick's behavior ala John,Marlena,Victor,and Maggie where Brady and Daniel are concerned and seek to intervene regardless of whether Julie really knows what Nick is actually doing.The character is being blamed for the manner in which their dialogue and story is being written instead of the writers,KC,and/or NBC when the actor clearly has no control over what is written for their character.
I think people know the difference between the actor and the character. And whenever the character does something dumb, people naturally talk about the character. Do you want us to gripe about NBC, KC or the writers every time we're upset about the dumb shit the characters do or is this only reserved for particular characters?
I don't mind whether posters comment positively or negatively on any of the characters,the writer for the specific episode,the writers in general,the head writers,KC,or NBC.I just respond to the post based on my view as to what was posted and my view of what I saw when I watched the episode(s).
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