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Monday, May 12th Daily Discussion
Topic Started: May 11 2014, 10:56 PM (23,587 Views)
Kaha
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Halloween Family
May 13 2014, 09:29 AM
Will&Sonny
May 13 2014, 02:02 AM
Deverauxfan
May 12 2014, 10:07 PM
Will&Sonny
 
The women didn't try to drown Nick. (But I realize that it's futile to try to argue this point with the people who believe otherwise. And you're certainly entitled to that opinion, even if the facts of the storyline don't exactly agree.)


How does the facts of the storyline not agree with what I said? Gabi hit Nick with a rock- he was unconscious- Sami said he was dead- they carried him to the river- he regained consciousness-they didn't try to help him up- he "drowned."
Because you said "I hardly call Nick blackmailing the people who tried to drown him[...]" and the women didn't "try" to drown him. They "tried" to dispose of what they believed was a dead body. When they dumped that body in the river, the cold water revived Nick, and they realized that he wasn't dead. He tried to grab them, they recoiled in understandable shock and fear, and the current dragged him under and swept him away, all in a matter of a couple of seconds or so. They could not have done anything to save him themselves at that point, and they couldn't have reported the incident to the police at that point because it would have looked even worse than it had looked to begin with. But at no point did they "try" to drown him. They "tried" to cover up a self-defense attack, yes -- and I'll even agree that it was stupid of them to do so, although they had their reasons (Gabi had been seen arguing with Nick earlier that night and saying things that could have given her a motive to kill him and claim self-defense). They "tried" to hide a dead body, yes. They "tried" to cover up an accidental drowning when that dead body turned out to be less dead than they had originally believed, yes. But they never "tried" to drown Nick, because one cannot try to murder, by drowning or otherwise, a person one believes is already dead. If they had been convicted of anything for their actions on that particular night, it would have been manslaughter, not murder.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. :soapbox:
They were wrong for not getting medical help. They were wrong to dump the "body". They were wrong not to report it. They are stupid and horrible people.

I was reading about a similar incident in the newspaper a few months ago, minus the self defense part. It was disgusting reading about it TBH.
But it's a soap and we like our bad people. If they were always doing the socially acceptable thing or the decent thing they would stop being entertaining. Sometimes though, I wish they at least don't play fast and loose with legal stuff. Every now and then characters should pay for their crimes.

I read what a fan wrote about Nick Fallon and how she identifies with him and I was actually weirded out. She might be identifying with "his demons," i.e. feeling alone, unhappy and unloved, despite clearly being loved by a lot of people. But I was weirded out because she doesn't seem to take his wrong doing all that seriously.
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elci525
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marie1969
May 13 2014, 08:22 AM
camera shy
May 12 2014, 03:14 PM
Couldn't Sami have gone and sat with Allie until she fell asleep? Her and EJ didn't need to be at the hospital.
She could and should have, but so could have Lucas. Sami did offer to take her home, but Lucas insisted to take Allie home with him. I assume it was his turn to be with her, so Sami really had no ground to fight about that. I was disappointed in both of them for not taking vigil by her bedside comforting her like any loving parents would. It would have been a sweet scene watching Lumi attending to Allie. It would have made them sympathetic after they allegedly did to Nick. But it would have been character driven and we can't have that. Sami had to be at the hospital to further the plot and Lucas had to be seen erasing the text to cover his ass.
I think Lucas did technically stay with Allie until she fell asleep - he told Kate she was out like a light. But he should have stayed, yes. Unless the real-time he took to go to the hospital, do whatever, and then come back wasn't very long - we'll see if there is any follow-up to that today. I really hope the show does follow-up with Allie's feelings given they made a point to show us how affected she was, and I hope they involve her parents (specifically Lucas) in that.
Edited by elci525, May 13 2014, 10:31 AM.
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Mitchapalooza
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^ My face watching DAYS

Popping in to say that Susan Seaforth Hayes was GOD AWFUL in this episode...she was SO bad it totally distracted from the content...I was unable to get over how bad she was.

She couldn't even produce ONE TEAR and she was horrendously over the top...bad like Susan Lucci over the top.

NOT impressed!

Alfonso, Banus (who blew me away), #nofucksgiven Kate and the montage at the end were the only redeeming things from an episode that should have been amazing.
Edited by Mitchapalooza, May 13 2014, 10:39 AM.
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nananana7
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Regarding the discussion of what legal crimes people committed (related to Nick) ...
Specifically: crimes that people were guilty of BEFORE Nick was shot ...
(This does not include any crimes that aren't related to Nick).

"Obstruction of justice" is actually interfering with an actual official police investigation or a court proceeding.

Perhaps EJ and Sami would be guilty of obstruction of justice for trying to clean up the crime scene by the river bank. But if there was not *yet* any police investigation back then, then I am not sure if there was anything to obstruct. Well, it could be "anticipatory obstruction of justice" which is explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

But obstruction of justice is not simply remaining silent as Sonny and Will did.
{to clarify: "remaining silent" isn't obstruction if nobody asks you about it officially.}

Note that Sonny and Will found out quite a long time after Nick had supposedly drowned, so they figured he was long dead and there was nothing they could do to save him.

If Hope, in her official capacity as an investigating police detective, directly asked Will and Sonny if they knew where Nick was (while he was "missing" in New York), and they directly lied to Hope, then maybe they obstructed an official police investigation into Nick's disappearance.

But if Hope was asking *only* as a concerned Horton cousin -- without any *official* police investigation into Nick as a missing person -- then maybe Sonny and Will didn't need to reply.

----------------------------------------

Regarding Gabi, Kate, and Sami throwing Nick into the river:
There are several possibilities:

There is a Wikipedia entry for disposing of bodies in the water (for disposing of dead bodies, and also disposing of bodies of people still alive that you intend to make dead):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_disposal_of_bodies_in_the_water#Illegal_disposal_of_bodies_in_the_water

However, once Nick was clearly alive, but got pulled back into the current, then the three women should have reported this to the police, in the off chance he was still alive, so that he could be searched for and pulled out of the river to be saved.

Because they did not call for help to find Nick, this may be:

"Endangerment"
"Reckless endangerment"
"Culpable negligence"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangerment

Or perhaps more accurately:
"Depraved indifference to human life".
To constitute depraved indifference, the defendants conduct must be so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendants conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-indifference/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

{In other words, if Kate-Sami-Gabi did something that could have been life-threatening, but didn't give a fuck whether Nick was actually dead or not, and just went about their way, they had depraved indifference to life -- or they had depraved hearts (they were heartless). And this applies regardless of whether Nick was severely harmed or not}

----

Again ... the above ideas are intended to relate to any crimes that people committed directly against Nick a while ago ..
*before* last week when he was shot.

--------------------------------

AFTER Nick was shot in May 2014, the landscape changes ...

Now that EJ and Sami hired a hitman, I would assume that they are guilty of either murder or attempted murder.

Any of the other people who might be shooters or second shooters, whoever they might be, are guilty of murder or attempted murder. (Unless there was some yet-unrevealed reason why a shooter would have been acting in self-defense.)

If Sonny and Will didn't shoot Nick ...
And if Abby didn't shoot Nick ...
And if Kate didn't shoot Nick ...
but any of them also choose *NOT* to reveal to Hope what he/she knows about why Nick was blackmailing everyone, then he/she could be guilty of obstructing the investigation into Nick's May 2014 death. (because that blackmail could have been a motive for the murder).

-----------------------------------
Edited by nananana7, May 13 2014, 12:20 PM.
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metitle
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Mitchapalooza
 
Popping in to say that Susan Seaforth Hayes was GOD AWFUL in this episode...she was SO bad it totally distracted from the content...I was unable to get over how bad she was.

She couldn't even produce ONE TEAR and she was horrendously over the top...bad like Susan Lucci over the top.

NOT impressed!
:hail:
and that's why I agree that Kate's appearance gave the episode life.
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Kaha
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I forgot to mention that I really enjoyed Rafe as a loving brother, friend and a responsible police detective. I liked him a lot in this episode and I usually find Rafe boring. Jordan still bores me to death. I find her character realty boring and unnecessary.
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Halloween Family
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Kaha
May 13 2014, 10:18 AM
Halloween Family
May 13 2014, 09:29 AM
Will&Sonny
May 13 2014, 02:02 AM
Deverauxfan
May 12 2014, 10:07 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Because you said "I hardly call Nick blackmailing the people who tried to drown him[...]" and the women didn't "try" to drown him. They "tried" to dispose of what they believed was a dead body. When they dumped that body in the river, the cold water revived Nick, and they realized that he wasn't dead. He tried to grab them, they recoiled in understandable shock and fear, and the current dragged him under and swept him away, all in a matter of a couple of seconds or so. They could not have done anything to save him themselves at that point, and they couldn't have reported the incident to the police at that point because it would have looked even worse than it had looked to begin with. But at no point did they "try" to drown him. They "tried" to cover up a self-defense attack, yes -- and I'll even agree that it was stupid of them to do so, although they had their reasons (Gabi had been seen arguing with Nick earlier that night and saying things that could have given her a motive to kill him and claim self-defense). They "tried" to hide a dead body, yes. They "tried" to cover up an accidental drowning when that dead body turned out to be less dead than they had originally believed, yes. But they never "tried" to drown Nick, because one cannot try to murder, by drowning or otherwise, a person one believes is already dead. If they had been convicted of anything for their actions on that particular night, it would have been manslaughter, not murder.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. :soapbox:
They were wrong for not getting medical help. They were wrong to dump the "body". They were wrong not to report it. They are stupid and horrible people.

I was reading about a similar incident in the newspaper a few months ago, minus the self defense part. It was disgusting reading about it TBH.
But it's a soap and we like our bad people. If they were always doing the socially acceptable thing or the decent thing they would stop being entertaining. Sometimes though, I wish they at least don't play fast and loose with legal stuff. Every now and then characters should pay for their crimes.

I read what a fan wrote about Nick Fallon and how she identifies with him and I was actually weirded out. She might be identifying with "his demons," i.e. feeling alone, unhappy and unloved, despite clearly being loved by a lot of people. But I was weirded out because she doesn't seem to take his wrong doing all that seriously.
Fans can enjoy what Sami, Kate and Gabby did but what they did was wrong, they are bad people. I don't have a problem with people enjoying them…I'm an EJ and Sami fan after all!! lol As much as I would love for Sami to get her sweevil on, I can't even get onboard with this action because it's so stupid which is a different issue.
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Keith
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How does it make a lick of sense that Doug is not there? Not even a mention of him? If Bill wasn't going to film, they could have mentioned Julie saying twhere he was.
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Yoryla
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Kaha
May 13 2014, 10:08 AM
Yoryla
May 13 2014, 09:37 AM
tomsawyer
May 13 2014, 09:22 AM
nananana7
May 13 2014, 09:05 AM
The daily thread is a spoiler-free thread.
I don't think that's true. I think many posters try to keep it spoiler-free out of respect for others that are spoiler-free, but I'm pretty sure that's not a board rule.
Yep, and I know this because when once upon a time I questioned someone spoiling something on these threads I was told there is nothing spoiler-free about these threads.
I think it would be courteous to keep the daily thread spoiler free though. Some people just come here to discuss the day's episode and they might not obsessively follow spoilers.
Well yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily specifically state spoilers in here just for the heck of it, but I have to say that I wouldn't bend over backwards not to, either, lol
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nananana7
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^ I edited my earlier post to say i was wrong, and to clarify that the daily thread is 'usually' spoiler-free but this isn't a 'rule'
Edited by nananana7, May 13 2014, 12:29 PM.
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Yoryla
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Yea... I gotta say, now that Mitch chimed in about it, I mean, I think SSH was pretty much as she always is. I mean, I don't think she was bad, but I just can kinda see her going the same way about a kicked puppy somewhere... In some cases it's more nicer of a surprise if someone's understated, and in this case SSH would have fit that bill pretty well......
Edited by Yoryla, May 13 2014, 02:05 PM.
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Yoryla
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nananana7
May 13 2014, 12:28 PM
^ I edited my earlier post to say i was wrong, and to clarify that the daily thread is 'usually' spoiler-free but this isn't a 'rule'
Yea I noticed.
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lysie


Yoryla
May 13 2014, 12:29 PM
Yea... I gotta say, now that Mitch chimed in about it, I mean, I think SSH was pretty much as she always is. I mean, I don't think she was bad, but I just can kinda see her going the same way about a kicked puppy somewhere... In some cases it's sometimes more nicer of a surprise if someone's understated, and in this case SSH fits that bill pretty well......
I thought she was much more understated than she usually is (which might give you an idea of how OTT I think she is the rest of the time). I expect Julie to be OTT because that's just who she is, but I liked how SSH played it yesterday. The one exception being the Julie/Maggie scene, and it was actually SR that I thought blew that.
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Yoryla
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lysie
May 13 2014, 12:37 PM
Yoryla
May 13 2014, 12:29 PM
Yea... I gotta say, now that Mitch chimed in about it, I mean, I think SSH was pretty much as she always is. I mean, I don't think she was bad, but I just can kinda see her going the same way about a kicked puppy somewhere... In some cases it's sometimes more nicer of a surprise if someone's understated, and in this case SSH fits that bill pretty well......
I thought she was much more understated than she usually is (which might give you an idea of how OTT I think she is the rest of the time). I expect Julie to be OTT because that's just who she is, but I liked how SSH played it yesterday. The one exception being the Julie/Maggie scene, and it was actually SR that I thought blew that.
Yea I didn't really see anything particular about SR either... I mean again, she was okay, but nothing special... the one that I felt the most was KA.... but even that was probably just because we hadn't had those kinds of scenes from her in a long time... she was good... also I though CB was pretty okay especially if she did the deed... there was some subtext there... though I have never really liked her and still really don't lol.... but she was okay.
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lysie


Yoryla
May 13 2014, 12:51 PM
lysie
May 13 2014, 12:37 PM
Yoryla
May 13 2014, 12:29 PM
Yea... I gotta say, now that Mitch chimed in about it, I mean, I think SSH was pretty much as she always is. I mean, I don't think she was bad, but I just can kinda see her going the same way about a kicked puppy somewhere... In some cases it's sometimes more nicer of a surprise if someone's understated, and in this case SSH fits that bill pretty well......
I thought she was much more understated than she usually is (which might give you an idea of how OTT I think she is the rest of the time). I expect Julie to be OTT because that's just who she is, but I liked how SSH played it yesterday. The one exception being the Julie/Maggie scene, and it was actually SR that I thought blew that.
Yea I didn't really see anything particular about SR either... I mean again, she was okay, but nothing special... the one that I felt the most was KA.... but even that was probably just because we hadn't had those kinds of scenes from her in a long time... she was good... also I though CB was pretty okay especially if she did the deed... there was some subtext there... though I have never really liked her and still really don't lol.... but she was okay.
KA's scene with Nick didn't stand out to me at all. Not in a good or bad way.
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Lil
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concerned
May 12 2014, 09:49 PM
I'm sorry but I have to agree with the poster from the other day Will's blue steel looks are distracting.

I wish he was a bit more emotional I think that would work better with Sonny.

At this point I would believe he is an automaton that Stefano has created.
I think there's a couple of us...but I cannot STAND GW's Will. I loved Chandler, though fully admit he didn't seem comofrtable in his love scenes...but I think this recast is awful. He has zero expression other than blue steel-duckface. I find it very distracting and acting-wise, I get no recognizable emotion from him. I think the WilSon scenes would have has SO MUCH more impact if we had a different Will. I'm aware that I'm in the minority here. He's awful. I tried to let him settle into the role but he is not Will to me.
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Lil
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Luce
May 12 2014, 10:18 PM
concerned
May 12 2014, 09:49 PM
I'm sorry but I have to agree with the poster from the other day Will's blue steel looks are distracting.

I wish he was a bit more emotional I think that would work better with Sonny.

At this point I would believe he is an automaton that Stefano has created.
I don't mind Guy, I think he's doing fine overall. But admittedly, I was kind of hoping that stiffness was still just kind of a leftover of being new, but now I don't think so. :-/

I've already gushed too much in my last post, but I just think Freddie does a lot with his eyes and when you pan over to Guy, his seem a tiny bit dead in contrast. I dunno, maybe he'll continue loosening up. I hope so.
I agree. Freddie does a lot of great "eye-acting." He's carrying WilSon for me right now.
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Lil
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As regards this episode...KATE!!! was my #1. Allie was good. Julie was good. But it was all about Kate lol
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Keith
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I was actually irritated that Kate was so callous about Nick because of Allie witnessing it. I didn't find it believable that she could disconnect concerned grandmother with her distaste for Nick so mechanically. Kate being callous alone I could buy and I understand why it was entertaining for some. It was distracting for me with the added layer of Allie's trauma.
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Deverauxfan
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Bellarke <3

Julie, Hope, Kate, Lucas, Rafe, Gabi, Wilson, Ben, Abby, Jordan, Ejami, and Nick:

Spoiler: click to toggle
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